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reasons for marriage????


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Second-best

I need some help/advice, pleeease! Last night, my bf and I got into a bit of an argument. Background info first: we've been together for 10 months, minus 2 days - we were on a break, and we were both compleeeetely miserable so we ended the break - we had some problems at 4 months about his best friend who started flirting w/ him and he didnt listen to my warnings, but for the past 3 months, we've worked out a lot of the kinks and sorted thru the pain...

 

the argument started last night about sex before marriage... he knows im totally against it, but he's not sure how he feels about it (but he's toootally respectful of my ideals, so he has NEVER pushed me, and has promised that even if we get caught up, he will not allow me to do anything I might later regret) He feels that if two people are truly in love, then, with taking all the right precautions, sex before marriage is ok...

 

then, i started saying that what if you didnt know what was going to happen, you did stuff, and then you broke up? where would that leave you?? how could you then marry someone else knowing that you'd done that (in our culture, it's quite a big thing to have sex and not be married, or to be with someone else in that way and then marry someone else - and we've all been brought up with this type of ideology) I know that I have enough respect for myself and my future husband that I wouldnt ever want to sleep with someone before I was married, because it would be SO hard to accept that my SO had done stuff w/ someone else prior to being w/ me...

 

my bf has done stuff w/ his ex, and it took me a good two months after finding out to accept that... and even then, it still pops into my head now and then and I have to try and deal with it all over again... they never had sex, but they did "stuff"... so, now here's the issue: when we started talking about marriage, I mentioned that what if a girl did get pregnant, and the guy stayed with her, and they had the kid without being married... why not just keep it that way? and he said, well, if it works, then great! marriage is just a contract... the weird thing is, he's allllways been a family-oriented guy... he dreams of being a husband and a father, with lots of kids... so why doesn't he see marriage as such a sacred union? why doesn't he see it as a committment that is religious?

 

when i brought up the fact that it's a committment to each other and God, he said, well, a stable gf/bf relationship is too... how can I make him understand? I'd never ever want to be in a marriage where the guy married me just because it's what's understood to be "right" by society... I want to be married because I can't get enough of that person, and to declare to the world that that person loves me too, and someone whom I can call family and be that committed couple and parents to children... can anyone help me with what to say? please??

sorry that it's such a long post!:(

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First, let me say my Hat is off to you!

 

It warms my heart to see someone like you posting something like this!

 

I wouldn't blame your boyfriend for feeling the way he does. I would blame society and how they degrade the sanctity of marriage.

 

It's commonplace for people to want to test the goods before they buy. You're right in standing up against this. I know you want him to understand your side of things. That may be impossible however.

 

You're best bet is prayer at this point. He sounds like a nice guy, and I hope that he respects your wishes, and remains open to marriage.

 

I'm sorry I don't have much to offer in convincing him this is the way to go. Stick to your guns! Don't let anyone convince you otherwise......

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Why not just say what you just told us? Did he grow up in a religious background like you did? My husband and I are happily married but we aren't religious at all and don't see it as anything before God or the like, but that doesn't mean we don't love eachother as much as someone who does.

 

This day and age though it would be hard to find someone that hasn't done anything before they meet their husband or wife, and even if you wait till you are married, what happens if you get a divorce (not tring to change your mind just pointing it out).

 

It sounds like you guys need to have a talk about your values and your beliefs, since you both don't seem to be on the same page about it. ITs important for you both to understand eachothers views on marriage and sex and the like before things get to far down the road

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Second-best

Thank you both for replying so soon! Moose, I agree with you that it is society's fault, but, then again, I look at some other ppl's relationships (not comparing, just observing) and they can both have those morals and understand it with the romantic ideals that marriage started off with... and Tikigod, yes, he was brought up with the same morals, which is one of the reasons I don't really know how to explain it to him... and he brought up that fact too, that what if we get married, and obviously, have sex, and then few years down the road, things get bad and get divorced? well, my answer to that, is that whatever was done, was done in wedlock, and if a child was conceived of that, wouldnt be considered "illegitimate." I know how much it meant to me growing up with my parents who have high ethical standards, and have always taught me to make decisions in life and love based on my faith and through God and prayer, and I am so grateful for that... but I want to be like that to kids that I might have too... and to be that way, I need my partner to feel the same way... and, while he may have been brought up in the same sort of community, with the same ideals, perhaps it was never verbalized to him... and that's what I'm wondering how to do?? and, I know a lot of my friends, a lot of family that is my age have been in relationships and NOT done stuff, so I feel it's ok to still have that expectation today... we're not animals and I think it's fair to expect one to be able to save oneself for the future... and yes, I did tell him what I said in the post, but it didn't really make much difference... he had a reason against every point I made... any other advice??

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and yes, I did tell him what I said in the post, but it didn't really make much difference... he had a reason against every point I made...
What were his points? We need to start there.
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RecordProducer

The guy just wants sex! Nothing wrong with that. :laugh:

 

I can't believe that in this wonderful, liberal, modern-technology world there are still restrictions about making love freely! :rolleyes:

 

 

Ok, whatever... ignore my post please! :p:)

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The guy just wants sex! Nothing wrong with that. :laugh:
There really isn't. But for all practical purposes, some people treat sex as a sacred bond, not merely an activity of self gratification.
I can't believe that in this wonderful, liberal, modern-technology world there are still restrictions about making love freely! :rolleyes:
It won't be long and we'll all be out of your way.......:p
Ok, whatever... ignore my post please! :p:)
Yeah......too late......
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RecordProducer
It won't be long and we'll all be out of your way.......:p
Hey, you don't have to.. I'll do it in front of you! ;):D
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Hey, you don't have to.. I'll do it in front of you! ;):D
lol! :lmao: tempting.......tempting.....but, I digress.....

 

Really though.....RP is an example of what I'm talking about. Now and days, sex is the norm for anyone, wedlock or no.....AND, you're dubbed old fashioned, or a drag, or not with the times if you don't, "go along"....

 

You'll experience persecution, teasing, and even loss of relationships....

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HokeyReligions
and, while he may have been brought up in the same sort of community, with the same ideals, perhaps it was never verbalized to him... and that's what I'm wondering how to do?? and, I know a lot of my friends, a lot of family that is my age have been in relationships and NOT done stuff, so I feel it's ok to still have that expectation today... we're not animals and I think it's fair to expect one to be able to save oneself for the future... and yes, I did tell him what I said in the post, but it didn't really make much difference... he had a reason against every point I made... any other advice??

 

It sounds to me that the problem isn't that he doesn't understand your feelings, but that he just doesn't agree with them and that you are searching for a way to change him and somehow 'make' him feel the same way you do.

 

I'm sure you have heard people say that you can't change someone else. This sounds like a prime example. He might agree that your feelings are right for You, and he is respecting your feelings - but that doesn't mean he is, or even wants to, change to be like you. Whatever relationships he has had in the past helped create the person you know now. You can't erase the past so its up to you to come to terms with it, or decide that because of his past and his current feelings - he is not the one for you. Respect his feelings and opinions too, just as you are asking him to respect yours.

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RecordProducer
You'll experience persecution, teasing, and even loss of relationships....
Dunno about that, but you'll definitely experience loss (lack) of sexual pleasure most of the time! ;):D:p
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I would agree more with Hokey and RP, the guy wants sex, and he doesn't see things the way you do. You are tring to convinence him that you are right.

 

Now the problem is that while people like to claim opposites attract, a lot of times thats pure bull. You need to make sure you and your partner do share many of the same important values, or at least respect eachother. If sex is a big deal for him, and he isn't willing to understand your views on waiting, Moose might be right in saying you will expereience a loss in a relationship

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I think the issue is that your belief is different from your bf's. I personally have a problem with promiscuity, but don't have a problem with sex in comitted relationships. I have seen problems where people waited for marriage for sex, then discovered they had vastly different expectations, and this caused problems in the marriage. For me, sex is something that needs to be worked out before you make a lifetime comittment, lol.

 

If you truely want to wait til marriage, good for you for standing up for your beliefs. As great a guy as you say your bf is, I think you need to find someone whose beliefs and values are closer to yours. It doesn't matter how he was raised, people have thier own minds and will believe what they decide. Personally for me, I have found that if people fundamentally have different morals and beliefs, it will cause problems throughout the relationship, not just on this one point.

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"I'd never ever want to be in a marriage where the guy married me just because it's what's understood to be "right" by society... I want to be married because I can't get enough of that person, and to declare to the world that that person loves me too, and someone whom I can call family and be that committed couple and parents to children..."

 

Well, it's wonderful that you're more interested in getting what you want then going along with what's "right" by society. I would submit that your bf feels precisely the same way, and was more interested in being who he was at the time with his ex than doing what others thought was "right." What fascinates and moves me is that he's had sex in some form (though I'm not clear on what "stuff" means exactly) but has no expectations of you prior to marriage. All of this, including his past, tells me that he is a person of integrity, devoted to acting according to what he believes in. It also tells me that his love for you is genuine, and that he puts your needs first. And Ms. Best, that is the mark of a person you can trust, religion aside. I don't think that religion is the key to good character in a person, though it can act as a guide of course. And religion won't fix anything between you, but reflection and good honest communication might.

 

Like Pink Tulip, I get the impression that you two have a difference of values at play. Beliefs, I think PT called them. You prefer virgin marriage, he is fine not being a virgin (or something having to do with "stuff" anyway). He sounds willing to accept your personal values, and work with your religious/cultural values. That rocks. Do you think you could learn to be tolerant of his values too? If you decide not to go forward with your bf because you don't want to accept his values (which are part of who he is), then, and pardon me if this is too harsh, but you've missed the crucial compromise piece of lasting relationships. And you just might miss an important opportunity for pretty serious love, the kind of love that you make together by being willing.

 

He can't change his past. And he shouldn't want to, any more than he should try to change you.

 

I would like to go on record saying that in my experience both as a past sexually active single and now married w, sex is at once a very big deal and not a big deal at all. By that I mean that yes! sex is bonding with the right partner, even spiritual, and can enrich a relationship beyond your wildest dreams. But I'd say be careful that you don't dole out shame, because it makes too much of the difficult parts (such as one's past), and that can make them irretrievably hard to manage later on.

 

I would also like to add that I understand how his past hurts you and maybe he's missed that part when you've talked about this. Would it help to hear him say that he understands the hurt, whether or not he agrees with your opinion of his past actions?

 

Just a thought. Good luck sweetie.

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michelangelo

If you don't want sex before marriage, then don't have any.

 

However, if you are with a man who's already had sex before getting with you, then you are kind of judging him if you keep telling you it is wrong.

 

yes, you do run the risk of having him go running off once he's bedded you without the marriage license. But you know what? You have that same risk even if you get the license.

 

And what if you are the one who finds out that sex with him is not all that?

 

Do you want to find that out before or after marriage?

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Second best... You could explain to your bf, that although a bf/gf relationship is a commitment and work, that the commitment required for marriage is much stronger and binding. In a relationship, each person has the option to bail at any time with no huge repercussions. Whereas in marriage, if either partner decides to end it, there are divorce proceedings, legal fee's, a period of time that must pass prior to having it finalized. It's becoming easier to leave a marriage, but still not as simple as breaking up with a bf or gf.

 

I thought what you were attempting to say is that marriage to you is a binding contract that is entered into with the belief that it is "until death". Whereas a bf/gf relationship is entered into with a "for now" kind of belief. And if you are in a "for now" relationship, no matter how long "for now" is, then there is no reason to have sex at this time. Until the relationship progress to the "til death" commitment, then sex can wait.

 

But I got a little confused with your point in your post because you seemed to jump back and forth a lot. I'm wondering if your bf may have had the same problem while you were speaking to him. And instead of understanding that you were simply clarifying how you felt toward sex and marriage, maybe he felt you were saying he wasn't very committed toward the relationship. I might be wrong in this... only posing the question.

 

Also, you can't equate having sex with a bf and breaking up, the same as having sex with your husband and divorcing later. I'm not aware of anyone who's ever entered marriage thinking they'd ever get divorced. But in relationships, we always have that knowledge that this isn't permenant. It isn't a binding contract, and we can leave at any time. So there is a huge difference between a relationship and a marriage. That's why some people choose to continue a long term relationship instead of marriage. In a bf/gf relationship, it's understood that if the other person treats you inappropriately then the relationship can be dissolved fairly easily. People fear marriage because it is so binding. (or at least it's supposed to be.)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Second-best

thanks everyone who replied! the variety of responses really helped! Sorry I didn't reply earlier; I've been so busy, I haven't had a chance to check the site... anyhoo, a lot of the points made sense... except for the ones saying that he just wants the sex, lol, I know him well enough to know that he's not that type of guy. Yes, I know values, beliefs, ethics, morals - whatever you want to call it - differ between people, therefore also between couples, but, I don't see my discussion with him or my posting to be any type of sign or idea about trying to change his mind about his own beliefs. I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me because it's not fair, so I wouldn't try to do that to him. I also don't think that discussing marriage with him and trying to get him to understand my view is wrong. I'm not forcing him to make it his view or opinion, simply for him to comprehend mine.

Sunseed, you are right in some aspects, that from just this perspective, I could take his love to be genuine and sincere, but he has hurt me in so many other ways that at this moment in our relationship, I do not trust that "love". But yes, he has told me that he understands the hurt that I feel in his past, but the thing that bothers me most is that he won't tell me about it. All he's told me is that he's done stuff, and it hasnt been sex. However, his idea of sex is simply penetration (intercourse), so I really don't know what has gone on in his past... now, BEFORE a whole bunch of you jump down my throat for that, I am NOT asking him to reveal his whole past to me, as in details, and even if I am, I don't think that's your business, but, what makes me uncomfortable is that he and I differ in that opinion of what is labelled as "sex", and what isn't, and knowing that I have to see his ex every so often without ever really knowing how far it went. of course, I am respectful of his decision not to tell me, and I haven't pushed him to tell me, but I also don't feel comfortable not knowing his past.

I spoke to him about this marriage issue again recently, and before I even got into my ideas again, he confessed that the last time we'd discussed marriage, he'd been playing devil's advocate and that he didn't really believe all that when he'd said it... so... phewf! lol... :o

but really, thanks for all the replies... it was nice to hear what you all think of marriage! jus curious... out of all that replied, which ones are married?

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one question you should ask him....if you havn't already...is how hard he would work at saving a marraige if it starts to go downhill. Does he believe in divorce...and if he does at what point does it get brought up.

 

Also, communication is key. It sounds like if you two were having a discussion and he was playing devils advocate...that you two can and do communicate but just not as clearly as maybe you previously thought. You should be able to ask him about his past and to know things about him if your thinking about marrying him. If your curious and you don't think that the truth will hurt you in the long run then I think ask him anything you want.

 

(i didn't reply before but i'm engaged)

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  • 1 month later...

...And still learning the ropes as any of my posts about myself will reflect. :) I admire your wish to let your bf have his privacy about the past, but I'd say if you are going to get more serious and consider marriage, given your discomfort, two things should happen: 1) You and he should definitely agree to a shared definition of "sex." You'll need that later on, if you know what I mean. ;) 2) You and he might have a frank talk about his past experiences. But ONLY if you know you can handle it. Prepare yourself for some hurt, but whatever he tells you, don't shame him. Make an effort to be accepting.

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