Wife does not apologize

[gsdgp]

I'm finding my marriage difficult. My wife does not apologize for hardly anything.... and somethings are seriously offensive.... im called a pathological liar, manipulator, terrible person, hated, etc. She's emailed an ex fiancé that she wants to divorce me, confides in him.

 

She lied about not talking to him (he texted her which i saw in the car a week ago and asked about other communication which she denied). She does not tell the truth about anything even when caught (web history, etc). For instance she absolutely demanded to know if I have looked at porn on my computer, and when I answered truthfully, I asked her; however, she lied and her web history proves it so.

 

I'm having difficulty trusting her because she has never admitted to lying even when caught (several times). Even if I'm not judgmental and show compassion when I know she's lying, she still persists in the lie. She also demands to never talk about it again. Also have issues because she demands "accountability" when I do something she doesn't like.

 

I live with a bunch of rules and conditions that if not met, she states she will divorce me. Unfortunately, she sometimes will violate these things herself and not apologize for doing so. Thoughts?

Edited February 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[FMW]

I'm not sure why you are sticking around......

[Orokotikki]

Sounds like you should extricate yourself from this situation.

Also don't be shocked if you find out later she is knocking boots with the ex.

[gsdgp]

It is extremely difficult. I stay bc I'm all about my young child. I also do love her and when times are good, they are great. The bad times though are terrible. With regard to the ex, I am somewhat suspicious; however, that relationship was over 10 years old and the guy is incredibly unattractive, which is why she called off the relationship actually. But I agree, still have some concern though think that part is unlikely.

[Orokotikki]

Well. I don't have kids, but I guess I would ask if you are OK with her being either your position or acting as your wife does in her future marriage.

[Mr. Lucky]

I im called a pathological liar, manipulator, terrible person, hated, etc. She's emailed an ex fiancé that she wants to divorce me, confides in him. She lied about not talking to him (he texted her which i saw in the car a week ago and asked about other communication which she denied). She does not tell the truth about anything even when caught (web history, etc). For instance she absolutely demanded to know if I have looked at porn on my computer, and when I answered truthfully, I asked her; however, she lied and her web history proves it so.

 

Guess I don't understand why you're focused on the apology.

 

gsdgp, if she did all the things you describe above, and then said "I'm sorry", you'd think your relationship was healthy? That would be OK with you?

 

I'm a little curious as to how you married her in the first place?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Turning point]

You need to do some serious re-evaluating while your child is still young and you still have resources. What you describe about your wife's personality is very distressing.

 

The fact that she never apologizes by itself would just be a question mark but, in conjunction with everything else you describe it's a huge red flag for long term trouble. You are already distressed about this situation and it's going to get even worse.

 

You sound like you may have shut down? Her rage seems to be applied to see that you stay that way. Try not to be distracted by the ex fiance' and what is going on there because the fundamental issue rests with her. You believe you love her but, take a really good look and decide if this is how love operates. Separate your idea of her from the actual experience of her.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Turning point

[Marc878]

I'm finding my marriage difficult. My wife does not apologize for hardly anything.... and somethings are seriously offensive.... im called a pathological liar, manipulator, terrible person, hated, etc. She's emailed an ex fiancé that she wants to divorce me, confides in him. She lied about not talking to him (he texted her which i saw in the car a week ago and asked about other communication which she denied). She does not tell the truth about anything even when caught (web history, etc). For instance she absolutely demanded to know if I have looked at porn on my computer, and when I answered truthfully, I asked her; however, she lied and her web history proves it so. I'm having difficulty trusting her because she has never admitted to lying even when caught (several times). Even if I'm not judgmental and show compassion when I know she's lying, she still persists in the lie. She also demands to never talk about it again. Also have issues because she demands "accountability" when I do something she doesn't like. I live with a bunch of rules and conditions that if not met, she states she will divorce me. Unfortunately, she sometimes will violate these things herself and not apologize for doing so. Thoughts?

 

it's probably at least an emotional affair. She knows how she can treat you and you'll take it. Don't be so naive. Your doormatish attitude isn't helping a thing.

 

Download and read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF

[preraph]

It is extremely difficult. I stay bc I'm all about my young child. I also do love her and when times are good, they are great. The bad times though are terrible. With regard to the ex, I am somewhat suspicious; however, that relationship was over 10 years old and the guy is incredibly unattractive, which is why she called off the relationship actually. But I agree, still have some concern though think that part is unlikely.

 

Then maybe the best role model you can be for your child is to show them they shouldn't put up with this stuff and leave. OR treat someone like that.

 

Have you tried marriage counseling? So when she is wrong, in lieu of apologizing or admitting it, does she ever do something nice as a substitute. I ask because that's what some narcissists will do. If her problems don't run that deep, maybe counseling would help her or help you communicate to her why you feel it's unfair at least, give you a safe place to do that.

[Turning point]

So when she is wrong, in lieu of apologizing or admitting it, does she ever do something nice as a substitute. I ask because that's what some narcissists will do.

 

"Well, of course I liquidated your retirement accounts. I did it so we can take this cruise together ..and look - I made cake!"

[Garcon1986]

You probably did some stuff in the beginning that she construed as being lack of affection, and this has slowly turned down her love for you. Now she's become a pathological person who has no holds barred in insulting you. All single men strive to avoid women like her. You are very righteous in upholding the safety of your child. You should, however, give her a black and white ultimatum. A tremendous financial penalty is coming, because American divorce laws tend to favor the woman no matter what wrong they've committed - but you really should first tell her you are going to leave and mean it - and stand and take whatever punishment she dishes out at you. Record it all, and make it be known you are the more civil person who has his head on straight. Head for divorce... and happier days. Your daughter deserves to learn either how to turn a horrible woman around - or how to live a righteous life without one. The most powerful negotiating position is to be ready to leave and mean it.

[Garcon1986]

She probably saw early stuff she didn't like, and it wore down her initial affection. Over time, this was her coping mechanism. Doesn't make it right by any means - but you have to stand up and let her rage when you tell her you are going to leave her - and then stand absolutely still and absolutely mean it. In a proper relationship her childish behavior is not to be tolerated. You tell her she will never get what she wants until she is civil again.

[bathtub-row]

She sounds perfectly horrible and, kid or no kid, I'd dump her.

[Turning point]

You probably did some stuff in the beginning that she construed as being lack of affection, and this has slowly turned down her love for you.

 

He didn't have to do anything. Abusive people wait until they have you pinned down (marriage, children, house, etc.) then they drop the mask and you see who they really are. Nothing would have changed her - it was there all along waiting for the right target.

[Mrs._December]

It is extremely difficult. I stay bc I'm all about my young child. I also do love her and when times are good, they are great. The bad times though are terrible. With regard to the ex, I am somewhat suspicious; however, that relationship was over 10 years old and the guy is incredibly unattractive, which is why she called off the relationship actually. But I agree, still have some concern though think that part is unlikely.

The number one excuse weak-willed spouses use for staying in a rotten marriage - their kids.

 

What was your excuse for staying before you chose to have kids with this woman?

 

As long as you're willing to continue rolling over and constantly disrespecting yourself just so you can cling to this woman like grim death, nothing is ever going to change. She knows exactly how weak you are so why SHOULD she change? You're too afraid to go anywhere and she knows it.

[BaileyB]

I also do love her and when times are good, they are great. The bad times though are terrible.

 

Says every abused woman... “We really love each other and everything is really great, until he hits me. That’s really terrible. But then, he says he is sorry and things are really good again... Until, he called me a liar and choked and hit me again...”

 

My friend, having a child is not reason to stay in an unhealthy and emotional abusive relationship. If anything, it is a good reason to leave.

[GorillaTheater]

She doesn't apologize? The fact that she doesn't is one of the least horrible things about her.

[Turning point]

The number one excuse weak-willed spouses use for staying in a rotten marriage - their kids.

 

While there are some instances of that, I won't go there with you.

 

It's quite common for victims of abuse to be so disoriented from the crazy-making behavior that from the outside they look like the abusive party. It's also likely they'll be materially trapped before they realize the need to escape, either with no income or dangerously over-obligated financially. Abusers plan ahead, and most of the exits are cut off in ways that exploit the victims own resources.

 

I've been there. It takes time to get our head on straight and safely extricate ourselves and the kids from what at discovery, is a dreadful lose-lose position. This is doubly hard for men with an abusive wife because the social narrative does not support this reality. There are no men's shelters, and if you find one it's more likely to be for those fleeing same sex relationships.

 

I'll never fathom the divorce' who says they left because their spouse was abusive yet, when asked - tells me their kids are still with the ex. But, I know this happens because abusers win in court more often than not. An adversarial court system by default promotes and rewards unscrupulous behavior.

 

As a father, I could never leave my child behind. I'm not weak - I'm stronger than you know because I'll absorb every ounce of it until I find the exit.

 

At the same time, there are few people or institutions who expect or accept that a man is suitable for custody. Men caring for children is a topic of comedy, not serious introspection. Television commercials are all about "moms" and if there's a dad in the spot he's either on his way in or out the door. Our society largely promotes children without fathers. We herald the single mother, and we are suspicious of any man alone with a child.

 

We are not an enlightened society, we just adorn the label.

[gsdgp]

I listed all the worst things which I just can't understand how someone could do hoping to understand. I've read and believe that when you can understand another's point of view, its often much easier to accept what was said/done and not be as angry. What I'd really like is for her to understand me better and realize how much she's loved, cared about, and I think she'd act differently think differently knowing how i feel, not having fear that I'll judge her poorly, and not having negative thoughts about my intent/feelings that isn't there; however, you can't force another person to do that. All I can do is focus on myself and get a better understanding of her points of view, which honestly are often different than mine, but not wrong by any means (some of her actions are pretty wrong, but her point of view re the issue wasn't wrong). Honestly, there are a lot of things that I do that are perceived quite poorly which I don't think are bad at all; however, from her point of view, which isn't unreasonable, they are perceived quite negatively. I understand why one would lie..... maybe they fear it would hurt the other person, maybe they would feel shameful about themselves, maybe they receive a negative response (yelled at, told negative things about themselves), etc.... I get that. It wouldn't bother me hardly at all if someone lied to me without ill intent towards me, and in particular if they later came clean and told me the truth. What I don't get is how someone could persist in the lie when caught. Everyone lies, but in my experience, most people don't defend that until their death in particular when there aren't any real consequences to telling the truth (other than perhaps some internal feelings of shame). I mainly want to hear the truth, even though I know what it is, because it builds a lot of mistrust having not heard the truth about a collection of certain things. The lack of willingness to share the truth particularly when I know it, concerns me deeply. I know she's not willing at all because I've made sure I no longer "test her." I don't ask her a question and give her an opportunity to lie. I did that in the past repeatedly and then I would let her know what I knew. That didn't work and she became upset about being tested. From what I read, its best to be direct and politely share what you know and ask if they could talk about it with you. That's what I've tried for the last several months, and it might have been somewhat helpful, though certainly hasn't solved the problem and I she hasn't opened up about anything in the past either.

 

With regard to the apologies... I don't really care about the lack of an apology itself; to me not apologizing for pretty hurtful things implies a lack of care about my feelings, and a lack of a need for change or desire for change. It makes me fearful for the lack of care for me, and lack of change. I know several people in my life, many family members, who have an extremely difficult time apologizing. In general, it appears they tend to think they are always right. They tend to think their point of view is the only correct point of view. One of my main goals is for my wife to explore all different possible points of view re an issue. I know personally that if i can atleast try to do that, i think im more understanding and accepting.

 

She does do many thoughtful/caring things instead of apologizing. She is much more often than not, very caring, nice, enjoyable, pleasant, upbeat, fun, etc. Its just times of anger which bring out a different side.

 

I tend to think that the best thing I could do is make the relationship truly work. I don't want to accept anything as it currently is, and nor would I want her to accept anything she isn't happy with. I think with a better understanding of each other I think improvement is possible. I truly love and care about her. This relationship is dynamic, people change over time, and particularly when trust slowly fades, I think we can misinterpret each others intent/words, develop resentment over certain things. She clearly resents me for a lot of things. She thinks that I've said/done things in the past for reasons infinitely different than why I said/did them. Once that trust is lost, its so difficult to convince that person what your true feelings are. I think she has some pretty negative feelings about me which are hard to break. Ie. once you are considered a liar, it seems impossible to correct someones misinterpretation.

 

Appreciate the help and the comments which I've found very helpful.

[anika99]

Okay, good luck with that. In the meantime I would suggest that you do not have any more children with her as more kids will just complicate things when the inevitable divorce occurs.

[bathtub-row]

Okay, good luck with that. In the meantime I would suggest that you do not have any more children with her as more kids will just complicate things when the inevitable divorce occurs.

 

I have a friend going through a similar thing. He will not leave his children but plans to leave his wife once the kids are grown. Two of his kids will be out of the house soon. The youngest has s few years to go. I totally get his reasoning and he doesn’t kid himself about what a nightmare his wife is. He doesn’t stay because he’s weak, he stays because he doesn’t want to have distance from his kids and is concerned about how crazy his wife would get if he did leave. She can go completely crazy and there’s no telling what she’d do to spite him. I understand his decision. Once a person gets tangled up with someone like that, it’s a true nightmare.

[Redhead14]

gsdgp, Looking at the other threads you've started about your marriage, it seems that it is lacking in a few areas -- communication, sex, respect, boundaries and conflict resolution.

 

 

". . . when times are good" -- How often are times good? I mean are you happy, let's say, 90% of the time, 70% of the time, 30% of the time???

 

 

You say you stick around for your young child. You aren't doing that child any favors by raising him or her in a home that is full of tension and distrust and watching, at least, one parent be unhappy and exhausted because he's walking on eggshells in the relationship.

 

 

It's time to ask your wife to attend marriage counseling with you to address the relationship issues. She needs to know how serious the situation is for you.

[Turning point]

I listed all the worst things which I just can't understand how someone could do hoping to understand. I've read and believe that when you can understand another's point of view,<SNIP>

 

OP,

 

What you are describing is a lack of empathy. I think your most difficult obstacle here, (as it was for me) is to understand how that's even possible. You will have to do some serious introspection here to discover that she's not capable of seeing your side, or putting herself in another person's shoes. That part of her emotional capacity does not exist.

 

What's even worse, is her ability to mimic this quality with other people when it's to her social advantage to do so. (Think: alligator tears.)

 

Much of your frustration comes from how she deals with shame and the great lengths she will go to off-load it onto you. This is iron-clad denial: In the face of over-whelming evidence it's not about what's true - it's about who is the bad person. For her, that person has to be you with no exceptions.

 

There's a spectrum here, and at the far end you'll find people who's behavior is very much in line with that of an alcoholic who will let nothing (not even his own children) get between him and his next drink. For abusive people, substitute self-gratification and image management for alcohol and you start to get the picture.

Edited February 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mr. Lucky]

It wouldn't bother me hardly at all if someone lied to me without ill intent towards me, and in particular if they later came clean and told me the truth. What I don't get is how someone could persist in the lie when caught. Everyone lies, but in my experience, most people don't defend that until their death in particular when there aren't any real consequences to telling the truth (other than perhaps some internal feelings of shame).

 

Would clearly tell me there is indeed intent behind the lies and deceit. Whether that's in service of some dysfunction, disconnect from the truth or simply an effort to manipulate you is something only you can determine.

 

It wouldn't work for me. Without trust, what's left? I'd be spending the "good times" you describe looking over my shoulder, waiting for the other shoe to drop...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Garcon1986]

OP, what you are doing has to stop. You need to stand up to her and say today you don't take any more punishment. She will receive punishment in the form of lack of attention or refusal to obey her whims if she doesn't turn around. She also needs serious marriage counseling. She's one of those people who decided she could be sweet and lovely before the marriage, but trap the guy and abuse him just because she can - and wrest material wealth or some other social advantage. She's demonstrated she's a serial abuser who won't hesitate to take advantage of any situation.

 

Her attitude will from now on be met with a steel wall. You cannot let this continue. She needs to feel the pain of the consequences of her poor decisions before she will even think of doing anything different. On the other hand, you are at fault for hanging on to her because you have the opportunity to have a woman by your side. She is however, choosing to be an absolute devil whenever she wants to because you let her. She needs to pay for the consequences of her poor behavior in the form of marriage counseling, and letting her fail when her poor behavior doesn't get what she wants.