Separation and Ambivalence

[Ashbash11]

Hi everyone,

I have a long history with my husband which you can read more about in my other Loveshack posts... I'm sorry if this post is long. I'm desperately in need of advice.

 

Here's the brief background: We've been married for 5 years, together (dating) for a total of 10 years. We've done 4 years of long distance, one of the times was coast to coast (California to Boston). We've been through a lot. Even though the long distance was extremely difficult, we remained loyal to each other and did not cheat or take a break. We then lived together in Maryland for 5 years, during which time things started off OK, but steadily went downhill after the second year of living together there. I moved to Maryland primarily for him. He got his "dream job" there. We both had long commutes, I had a very stressful job and I was unhappy, and we fought a lot. We also didn't have any friends/family in Maryland, so we spent most of our free time together. My husband has a social life at work, so he would often go out for drinks with coworkers or go to parties with them (which would cause fights..). While I lived there, I basically just drove, worked, drove, worked, and so on. I didn't have a life, and as a result, I became extremely depressed and was having panic attacks from the stress and unhappiness. So... I decided to move to Boston (where I went to graduate school, and where my friends and family are). Last year, I packed up my stuff, got a job in Boston, and moved. As a result of my move, we just finished another year of long distance (Maryland to Boston). Bi-weekly visits, and daily phone calls.

 

The current situation: Before I moved to Boston, we had made a plan that my husband would move up as soon as we sold our house, and he could get a job. However, over the past year, he has not looked for jobs or really done anything to prepare for moving. The house was in disrepair and he did not pack anything or make any preparations for moving. I had to do it all this summer..... Over the past year, we continued to fight frequently. We often bickered about small, inconsequential things (where to eat, etc.) and blamed each other. We don't communicate well at all. My husband becomes defensive very quickly, and he is also quick to anger. A month ago, I said something to provoke him and he screamed " F you" at me. I still haven't gotten over that incident. I've never been spoken to that way by anyone in my entire life. I was deeply hurt by it. I couldn't fathom speaking like that to someone you love and care about. He never sincerely apologized for that, either. Recently, he said that our phone conversations are "one-sided" and I am just "talking at him" and that he feels like he can't "be himself" around me because I say he's not funny, and he can't make jokes. I also told him that I feel like a bad person when I'm around him. He makes me feel like everything that goes wrong is my fault, and I feel like he blames me for my depression (I am depressed, but in therapy and dealing with it). He once told me, "your depression is unraveling our marriage." We rarely have sex (or any type of physical intimacy) and this has been going on for over a year. We both still love each other, but things have deteriorated.

 

We were in couples therapy in Maryland before I moved for a couple of months, but it didn't help that much. He was awkward and uncomfortable in therapy and we didn't get very far. It was also the type of therapy where we had to do "assignments" and weekly homework like "make a list of things you like about your partner".. it didn't help us that much. Now with us living in two different states, couples therapy will be very difficult to make work.

 

So.. given all of this, I asked for a separation. Once our house sells, he will move into an apartment in Maryland close to his job, and I will stay in Boston. The plan is 6 months. During that time, he will continue to make bi-weekly visits to Boston so that we can see a couples therapist up here. I changed my mind about him moving up here right away. I feel like he will just bring all of the same problems up here with him. Yes, things would be better in Boston, but we would still have the same communication problems, lack of connection/intimacy, etc. Those things have not changed in years. I am now dealing with extreme ambivalence. I love him very much. He's my best friend, my primary emotional support, and he has many good qualities. I am very very scared to lose him through divorce. BUT.... I also feel that our marriage has deteriorated to a point where I am not sure that it is fixable. My question is, how do you know when to end things? What's the best way to go about doing a separation? I know that separations can be very stressful, but I feel like this is the best way to handle this situation right now, rather than him moving here immediately OR.. never moving here.

 

But.. we are kind of stuck in limbo. We've already been living apart for a year, but we only recently agreed to actually separate. I just feel so confused about my feelings, and I don't know what to do. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ashbash11

[Garcon1986]

My sympathies that you are having such a nasty horrible time. No gentleman should ever be screaming at his wife period. He shouldn't be manipulating you into believing that it is all your fault. I'm sorry to say that this doesn't look salvageable if you've done all this honest work and he is refusing to budge. It seems like that he is one of those macho guys who thinks that he is always in the right. Right now I would take the time to process this, however much time you need, and be with your favorite people. People who scream and say "If only you would do this, I would love you better" don't really love themselves.

[d0nnivain]

I do understand that you were bored & resentful because you didn't have friends or a social life in Maryland but moving to Boston made things worse.

 

What did you do to make friends in MD? If you went to school in Boston, does your school have an active alumni chapter in MD? Did you join it? Were you in any groups in MD that could have helped you make friends? Did you try making friends with the neighbors. I know being isolated sucks but other than resent your husband, what did you do to fix your situation.

 

Once you moved & came up with a plan for him to move, it's worse that he has not applied for jobs. How abandoned does he feel? I assume he could make friends in Boston because he was there when you were in California so he won't face the same isolation but he has to give up his "dream job." Does that job exist at that same rate of pay in New England?

 

This is going to sound really nuts but is splitting the baby" moving to the greater NYC area an option?

[Ashbash11]

I do understand that you were bored & resentful because you didn't have friends or a social life in Maryland but moving to Boston made things worse.

 

What did you do to make friends in MD? If you went to school in Boston, does your school have an active alumni chapter in MD? Did you join it? Were you in any groups in MD that could have helped you make friends? Did you try making friends with the neighbors. I know being isolated sucks but other than resent your husband, what did you do to fix your situation.

 

Once you moved & came up with a plan for him to move, it's worse that he has not applied for jobs. How abandoned does he feel? I assume he could make friends in Boston because he was there when you were in California so he won't face the same isolation but he has to give up his "dream job." Does that job exist at that same rate of pay in New England?

 

This is going to sound really nuts but is splitting the baby" moving to the greater NYC area an option?

 

Thanks for your reply, d0nnivain. To answer your questions: I didn't write this in my post, but I actually did quite A LOT to make things better in Maryland. I saw several therapists, joined groups through meetup.com, and spent as much time as possible with my one college friend who lives in Virginia. I tried to make the best of it. To be fair, I did it for 5 years.. I gave it a fair shot! I was also the one to initiate/arrange couples therapy for us in MD.

 

You make a good point about him feeling abandoned. I think he did feel that way, even if subconsciously. He said he 100% supported me moving because he saw how unhappy I was in MD... However, I think he became somewhat depressed after I left. Whenever I would come back to visit, the house was always a mess, and he hadn't usually cut his hair or kept up well with hygiene. I always felt guilty for that. BUT.. I had to move. It was a really bad situation toward the end.... surprisingly, the long distance hasn't been too bad. But... the problems we had in Maryland haven't gone away. I fear that they will just continue in Boston. Yes, he actually has several friends in Boston, as he also went to graduate school here (we met in Boston).

 

As far as moving to NYC, that's not a bad idea, but I'm already settled here for now, and quite happy otherwise.

[d0nnivain]

OK. You tried. That is something. So now it comes down to the fact that you sacrificed so what is he willing to do?

 

I hope the therapist helps you both find a clear path to happiness.

[BTDT2012]

Why do you want to stay married? Nothing that you have written gives any indication that the relationship is healthy. You are happy in Boston, and in a year's time your husband has made to effort to join you there.

[Ashbash11]

Why do you want to stay married? Nothing that you have written gives any indication that the relationship is healthy. You are happy in Boston, and in a year's time your husband has made to effort to join you there.

 

 

Good question... So, my original post didn't contain all of the details. It was mainly just a summary of things. Of course, my husband has many great qualities, which is where my ambivalence comes from. He's very kind, caring, and he has a great sense of humor. He always has funny stories to tell and he makes me laugh. He is a very charismatic guy. He is also extremely intelligent. For most of our relationship, he made me feel amazing. He told me that I was "gorgeous" and "beautiful" all the time, cooked for me, took care of me when I was sick, and generally went out of his way for me (brought home flowers for no reason, brought dinner home often, etc.). He made me feel like the best woman on Earth. He was also very giving in the "bedroom" and always concerned for my happiness. He used to tell me that I was the "most important" person in his life. Things were good for many years. We had an instant chemistry and connection when we first met that I've never felt with anyone else. It was just a feeling that he was special. He's just a great guy all-around. I feel like I can be my authentic self around him, and he loves me anyway. These are the reasons why I want to stay married....

 

Our dynamic has changed since the beginning, though. We both have a lot of resentment and anger toward one another, and he is unable to admit that there are problems in the marriage. I guess he's in some sort of denial. I think the hardest part for me is the ambivalence. Nothing terrible ever happened-no cheating, lying, etc. He doesn't drink or do drugs, and there's never been any abuse or anything major. I sometimes wish that something had happened to make it a "clean break" rather than this agony that we are in now... We've had problems for years, but we are only now trying to tackle them head on. And yes, it has definitely been concerning that he hasn't made any steps to moving to Boston.. He blamed it on wanting to "sell our house" and not wanting to jeopardize his job until the house was sold. His logic didn't make a lot of sense, but.. that's what happened.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Ashbash11

[Mr. Lucky]

Our dynamic has changed since the beginning, though. We both have a lot of resentment and anger toward one another, and he is unable to admit that there are problems in the marriage.

 

Ashbash11, I'm surprised your marriage hasn't improved through counseling and therapy since many of the combined efforts to sabotage the relationship are normally exposed. A marriage doesn't go bad like old milk, selfish partners work to undermine its stability.

 

We both had long commutes, I had a very stressful job and I was unhappy, and we fought a lot. We also didn't have any friends/family in Maryland, so we spent most of our free time together. My husband has a social life at work, so he would often go out for drinks with coworkers or go to parties with them (which would cause fights..). While I lived there, I basically just drove, worked, drove, worked, and so on. I didn't have a life, and as a result, I became extremely depressed and was having panic attacks from the stress and unhappiness.

 

Seems a little one-sided. It's not your husband's responsibility to make you happy and you seem to have resented him for finding what you couldn't - friends and a social life.

 

A month ago, I said something to provoke him and he screamed " F you" at me. I still haven't gotten over that incident. I've never been spoken to that way by anyone in my entire life. I was deeply hurt by it. I couldn't fathom speaking like that to someone you love and care about.

 

I'll bet he couldn't fathom you'd bail on the marriage and go back to Boston. Look, two sides to every story. It's just that your side seems somewhat high-maintenance and self-centered. Something to think about for future relationships if this one doesn't work out.

 

Sorry for the tough love ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

To be honest, I'm having a difficult time seeing the problem here.

 

It seems to me, based on what you have written, that your husband is (in your words) and all-around good guy and he has met many needs for you in your relationship. But, you've had some challenges in your married life and you are not compatible, in many ways...

 

The fact that he doesn't think there is a problem and you mention anger and resentment speaks volumes to me. Why are you so angry with your husband?

[Ashbash11]

Ashbash11, I'm surprised your marriage hasn't improved through counseling and therapy since many of the combined efforts to sabotage the relationship are normally exposed. A marriage doesn't go bad like old milk, selfish partners work to undermine its stability.

 

 

 

Seems a little one-sided. It's not your husband's responsibility to make you happy and you seem to have resented him for finding what you couldn't - friends and a social life.

 

 

 

I'll bet he couldn't fathom you'd bail on the marriage and go back to Boston. Look, two sides to every story. It's just that your side seems somewhat high-maintenance and self-centered. Something to think about for future relationships if this one doesn't work out.

 

Sorry for the tough love ...

 

Mr. Lucky[/quote

 

Why are you surprised that therapy didn’t help us? It doesn’t work for every couple, and... the therapist may not have been a good match for us. I never said it was my husband’s responsibility to make me happy, I was simply explaining what happened. Remember, I moved there FOR him.... we have both made sacrifices for each other. I don’t understand how I’ve been as selfish as you say I’ve been. I also did not “bail” on the marriage by moving. We maintained a long distance marriage all of last year after I left. We called each other daily, visited almost every weekend.... we both put in equal effort to make it work. I’ve been exponentially happier, and he wanted that for me. My job in Boston is better and I have a support system here, which is important. I’m sorry you think that’s selfish. I found your response to be very rude and not particularly helpful.

[Mr. Lucky]

I found your response to be very rude and not particularly helpful.

 

Most people, when not finding validation for their actions, have a similar reaction .

 

It's too bad you don't see leaving your marital home and moving back to Boston as having a negative impact on your marriage and, to me, is somewhat symptomatic of your approach to the entire relationship.

 

I'll just ask you - how has the unilateral move worked out, marriage-wise?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ashbash11]

Most people, when not finding validation for their actions, have a similar reaction .

 

It's too bad you don't see leaving your marital home and moving back to Boston as having a negative impact on your marriage and, to me, is somewhat symptomatic of your approach to the entire relationship.

 

I'll just ask you - how has the unilateral move worked out, marriage-wise?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I wasn't looking for "validation." I was seeking other people's input, preferably from those who have been separated/had marriage difficulties.

 

To be honest, I don't see moving to Boston as having a negative impact on the marriage because we were already having major problems for the 5 years in Maryland before I moved...Things had gotten so bad that divorce had come up, and then we started seeing the couple's therapist. You make it sound like I'm this selfish, flippant person who just "up and left" without thinking it through, but you are wrong. I thought about moving for MONTHS and we discussed it in detail before it happened. It was a slow process. And my husband saw how depressed I was living there, so he was fully supportive of me moving to Boston. We agreed to do long distance, and he would eventually move up to Boston. Have you ever been in a long distance marriage? Are you even married? Maybe it would help to know where you are coming from in terms of your experience.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ashbash11

[BaileyB]

I'm not saying this to be disagreeable, but I don't know anyone who has made the decision to move and establish another home away from their spouse - and found it to have a positive influence on the marriage. Regardless of whether he plans to move to Boston eventually or not... If you were having problems, and this was your best solution, it doesn't say much about your marriage.

 

To me, it's delaying the inevitable... Perhaps, you need to consider the fact that you want different things, you are happier doing your own thing, and this marriage has run its course.

[Mr. Lucky]

Have you ever been in a long distance marriage? Are you even married? Maybe it would help to know where you are coming from in terms of your experience.

 

I was married, then separated and divorced, and now happily remarried a second time. My career forced a number of LDR periods in both marriages and I made some difficult changes to minimize the travel and separation from my (now) wife (and kids), having discovered absence really doesn't make the heart grow fonder (duh!). The periods apart were a factor in the demise of my first marriage.

 

Ashbash11, I'm not trying to debate you, just some honest feedback from where I sit and the road I've (literally) traveled. I've made mistakes in my marriages that make any and all of your transgressions look small-time, no higher ground here. Hope you get what you want and find happiness in the solution to your current marital stalemate.

 

Best of luck...

 

Mr. Lucky

[FMW]

I don't think separation is going to help your situation. Either decide to fight for the marriage and do it together, in the same location, or end it and give yourselves a chance to find happiness with other people.

 

My 23 year marriage probably only lasted that long because my husband traveled extensively for work. The time apart didn't help us solve our issues, it just prolonged the inevitable.

[Els]

Most people, when not finding validation for their actions, have a similar reaction .

 

It's too bad you don't see leaving your marital home and moving back to Boston as having a negative impact on your marriage and, to me, is somewhat symptomatic of your approach to the entire relationship.

 

I'll just ask you - how has the unilateral move worked out, marriage-wise?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

They weren't both in the same place from the start. She moved TO HIM to close the distance, tried living there for 5 years and it wasn't working out, so she moved back to where she came from. Given that she has already given her all and tried it on his side for 5 years, it sounds reasonable that she would expect him to try the same thing that she did if he cared about her happiness.

 

 

Ash, there are a lot of things that we could comment on in your post, and some possible ways to fix these things. But it sounds to me like your marriage is already dead in the water, and has been for the last several years. More importantly, you've been miserable more than HALF of the time you've been married.

 

 

 

Things have spiralled to the extent that neither of you seem to have any desire to fix anything. Why prolong the agony?

[Mr. Lucky]

They weren't both in the same place from the start. She moved TO HIM to close the distance, tried living there for 5 years and it wasn't working out, so she moved back to where she came from. Given that she has already given her all and tried it on his side for 5 years, it sounds reasonable that she would expect him to try the same thing that she did if he cared about her happiness.

 

I'd guess he'd say they made the decision to move together, but it's probably just semantics.

 

My concern is her decision to leave is based on issues she'll have to address anywhere she lives - work, social life and home. I don't see how relocation solves those problems and it certainly puts a dent in the marriage.

 

Regardless, your other point is well taken. Given the struggle to this point, not sure it makes sense to continue...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Els]

I'd guess he'd say they made the decision to move together, but it's probably just semantics.

 

My concern is her decision to leave is based on issues she'll have to address anywhere she lives - work, social life and home. I don't see how relocation solves those problems and it certainly puts a dent in the marriage.

 

 

Mr. L, have you ever moved away from your job, family, and friends to be with a partner before? Even if the decision is made together, it is always a huge sacrifice made by the person who moved. In my case, even though I was the one who moved, the SO sacrificed as well - financially supporting my move, emotionally supporting me when I was down about it, making sure to include me in his social circles so I could get a footing, etc - and it was still one of the most difficult things I have done. From what I can see, Ash's partner has offered her no such support, so it's not surprising that she feels unhappy and resentful, and chose to revert her decision 5 years later.

[OwenW72]

I will add my own current experience on separation. I am struggling with a marriage of 21 years that has been unravelling over the past 5-6 years. And a contributing factor has certainly been distance. My wife and I both pursued career choices that created a great deal of time apart, and though it is as much a symptom as a cause of difficulty, it makes reconciliation harder.

 

As one person pointed out, it might serve to delay any sort of end, but it is probably also getting in the way of any positive work or connection. A big point of a relationship is to have someone with whom to share the experience of your life. That takes a lot of things, but being in the same place is certainly a part of it.

 

But since you are apart a great deal, have you found that it gives you any clarity on who you are, and what you want? About the only thing positive that it has infused in my decisions about my relationship has been some space to do that for me and for my wife. Though I would warn that we came to different conclusions when we had that space...