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Sex in Marriage - How do you compromise?


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Old 13th December 2017, 1:09 PM   #31
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I do talk to my wife about how I can make her desire me more unfortunately the answer always seems to be that I am a great husband already and do many things that should "turn her on" it just doesn't happen much. She points out that when she talks to her friends they all say that I am as she puts it "Dreamy" and all of them have a crush on me and I would win a hot husband contest hands down. I don't let that go to my head because I've seen the competition and the bar is not set that high It just seems that she has reached a point in life that due to mental and physical changes sex just isn't a priority for her anymore. As she points out she just never thinks about it anymore, never gets excited or aroused really unless I am performing some outside stimulus on her but in everyday situations almost never. That is so hard for me to wrap my head around since I get aroused constantly, to the point that it is sometimes a distraction to me at work or in public. I have to make a conscious effort not to think about sex sometimes. I can't imagine why someone would be the way my wife is and not think that is strange or upsetting, heck if that started happening to me I would be at the doctor ASAP going "What the hell is wrong with me, why isn't my penis hard every two minutes like always!"
It sounds like both you and your wife are fairly extreme. Most people do want sex more often than once every 2 weeks, but most people are also capable of working or doing other things without thinking about sex ALL the time! It also concerns me that you are resentful about her dealing with her RA to see her mum for her 86th birthday but not having sex with you - do you really think she should be prioritizing sex over her mum's birthday?

Anyway, the bolded is a bit confusing. If she needs "outside stimulation" (by which I assume you mean the clitoris and other erogenous zones) to be aroused, that's fairly common and I don't see why it would be a problem or lead to her never really wanting sex. Do you pay enough attention to the "outside stimulation" when you have sex? Does she normally turn foreplay down (on normal days, not just before mum's birthday lunch)?
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Old 13th December 2017, 1:11 PM   #32
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Michelle Ma Belle and a few others - To those that have asked specifically about the sex, we already compromise on the type as well as the frequency. My wife made it clear years ago that as she had entered menopause sex with penetration had become painful for her. Generally of the two times we do it on average each month only one includes traditional sex with penetration, the other is usually a lot of oral and mutual masturbation. I don't always find the oral/masturbation as satisfying but I can live with it to feel closer to her.

Positions have become a problem over the years, we used to do it all kinds of ways, standing up, spooning, sideways, doggy style, missionary, woman on top, reverse cowgirl, you get the idea. Over the last five years most of those have gone by the wayside due to physical pain for her and some weight gain on her part. Now its pretty much just missionary and doggy and that's it, occasionally she tries to get on top but she moves so little I can't feel much anyway and most of the time I have to fake enthusiasm until she gets tired.

She will perform oral on me and vice versa and I think that is actually her preferred which I don't mind if it happened a bit more often and was preceded by plenty of foreplay. Maybe I'm strange but I don't like to just plunge into sex, I like lots of kissing and dirty talk first and then work your way up. She has a tendency a lot of times to do that for about five minutes and then immediately go down on me and try as hard as she can to get me off as quick as she can. I get depressed sometimes when this happens because its a sure signal that she doesn't really want to be in bed with me she is just trying to mollify me so she can get some sleep.

I tried to introduce toys in the bedroom but she thinks the whole thing is just silly and doesn't know why a woman would stick a piece of shaking plastic inside them, so so much for that.
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Old 13th December 2017, 1:14 PM   #33
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How do we compromise? By definition compromise is meeting in the middle. Your wife sees 2x a month as a compromise or 24 x a year although sometimes she leans towards less than 2x a month which is in her favor. You prefer 3-4x a week which is not hypersexual. So if your desires were met 3-4= 3.5 x 52 weeks = 182 times a year would be what would meet your needs and 24 x's a year would work for your wife.

Based on what you wrote if you were hit by a train she would be fine without sex so the times she does have sex she does not want it although you say she does seem to enjoy on occasions when she does have it. Where does that leave your wife? If she could do without sex and agrees to 24 x's a year she gets what she wants 365-24=341 days out of the year plus the days she enjoys when you do have sex. You want sex 182 x a year and get it 24 x a year = 24 days you get what you want and 158 days you do not get what you want.

If you want to compromise (meet in the middle) you have to move from a theoretical 24 x's a year to an actual 91 days a year (182/2). I realize this is a numerical approach that does not illicit warm and fuzzy feelings but that does not take away from the fact that your wife gets what she wants (she wants to not have sex) 341 days out of the year and you get what you want 24 days out of the year if she sticks to her twice a month times you have sex which does not sound like is set in stone. If she enjoyed it 10 times during it would be fair to say she got what she wanted 351 days out of the year.

When 2 people decide to commit to marriage they are no longer captains of their own ship. They sail through life together. Not all marriages are monogamous but the intent for the vast majority of those who enter into marriage is fidelity. As such each partner is the only person on the planet who can meet their sexual needs. Married partners share a monopoly on partnered sex with their spouses. In marriage we do things we do not always want to do. My wife and I walked into our house to the smell and sight of a pile of crap our dog left on the floor. Did either of us desire cleaning it up? No. Nor did we desire leaving it there. In this case I cleaned it up.

It is a fact of life we do what we have to do and not always what we want to do whether the desire is there or not. It is also a fact that it stings when you are the high drive partner in a marriage and your partner does what they have no desire to do in order compromise and meet your needs. It is especially true when sex means more than just having sex and is a major part of what bonds you to your spouse.

There is a reason mismatched libidos are a common topic. I'm sure the coldness of my mathematical approach to differing sex drives will be skewered but if the frequency of sex is an issue, 1 partner wants more and 1 partner wants less there has to be a means to determine how to derive where the middle is if a couple wants to compromise and meet there.

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Old 13th December 2017, 1:18 PM   #34
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Elswyth - I don't want to give the wrong impression here, I have no problem with her going out to lunch with her Mom, her Mom is a total sweetie and I love her to death myself. I was just pointing out that she had four hours before she had to pick her Mom up, and sex would have taken a small fraction of that. It was a very rare moment when both kids were out of the house and believe me when I say that is a very very rare moment. Also she had been feeling fine earlier it was only when I brought up sex that she suddenly started feeling bad this morning.

I actually tried to get her to come to bed early the night before but she said she was to tired for sex, she then stayed up until 12:30am to watch a John Cusack movie. Apparently she was too tired for sex but not tired enough to go to bed at a normal time.
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Old 13th December 2017, 2:20 PM   #35
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I once commented that I thought spouses had a responsibility to each other to do their best to stay in least a semblance of physical shape and health and she just laughed and said "God I hope not." So while I work out six times a week and am in good health she makes her RA worse by sitting around eating sugary snacks, gaining weight, and doing nothing to be physically active. I'm not criticizing her looks, in spite of going from 120 pounds to close to 170 since we met I still think she is an attractive woman, its just given her circumstances you would think she would be trying harder to keep healthy and maybe her libido would improve along with that.
I do agree with you here, my husband and I are total opposites, I take really good care of myself, stay thin, workout and eat well which is why I feel good about myself and have a high sex drive at 48, he on the other hand does not take care of himself, doesn’t exercise, smokes, drinks a lot of beer.

She is not taking care of herself and is why she’s not into it. A lot of women let themselves go and then not into it in the bedroom because they don’t feel attractive and sexual, then they wonder why there husbands are cheating. Not trying to be mean, it’s just a fact.
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Old 13th December 2017, 2:24 PM   #36
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It just seems that she has reached a point in life that due to mental and physical changes sex just isn't a priority for her anymore. As she points out she just never thinks about it anymore, never gets excited or aroused really unless I am performing some outside stimulus on her but in everyday situations almost never. That is so hard for me to wrap my head around since I get aroused constantly, to the point that it is sometimes a distraction to me at work or in public. I have to make a conscious effort not to think about sex sometimes. I can't imagine why someone would be the way my wife is and not think that is strange or upsetting, heck if that started happening to me I would be at the doctor ASAP going "What the hell is wrong with me, why isn't my penis hard every two minutes like always!".
Google "responsive vs spontaneous desire".

Also many people with chronic conditions tend to pace themselves, by that I mean they know their limitations so instead of approaching the day like a normal person would and go with the flow, they know that if they do something that may trigger pain or excess fatigue, they know that whatever else they had planned may be affected adversely or be impossible to do.

For instance
I could take the dogs out for a walk now, but if I do that I may not be able to do some shopping at 2 and meet my friend for coffee, so I will rest, then go shopping and meet my friend, rest again then take the dogs out for a walk in the evening.

Maybe your wife knew that the sex was too much on top of the other stuff she had planned for that day.
I guess your wife with RA may be a lot less fit than her very elderly mother...
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Old 13th December 2017, 2:50 PM   #37
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No, just NO

I have read this thread and as a woman, I am sorry!!! She is your WIFE!! You want sex with your WIFE! You are not hyper sexual, you sound to me like you are just a guy and a pretty nice one at that. What she did this morning, that is simply avoiding sex with you, plain and simple! She is gate keeping with the best!!
Man, it's time to have a very very frank discussion, no sugar coating. For her to even suggest you seek help because if your sex drive is ludicrous. Insist that you guys get help with this. I get menopause, I am a married woman in my 50s, but she is denying you a key part of a loving relationship. Now, if you are a crap husband and don't treat her right or loving and then want sex that is a different story, but if what you say about your relationship is accurate she needs to compromise!!
Best of luck !!!
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Old 13th December 2017, 2:50 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by elaine567 View Post
Also many people with chronic conditions tend to pace themselves, by that I mean they know their limitations so instead of approaching the day like a normal person would and go with the flow, they know that if they do something that may trigger pain or excess fatigue, they know that whatever else they had planned may be affected adversely or be impossible to do.

This is very true. My wife had Lyme disease, and later a severe back injury. She had to pace herself carefully to get things done. Even simple things often had to be broken into smaller parts to avoid triggering a situation that could put her completely out of action for several days.


However, she prioritized sex and our relationship over everything else. If all she could handle in a day was sex, that was what she focused on, and rested (and did computer/sedentary tasks) the rest of the time. Often, I had to do the vast majority of the laundry and cleaning, etc., but that was a small price to pay to have a great relationship and great sex. She's been successfully treated since, so we can now split all that needs doing - and still have a great sex life.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:23 PM   #39
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This here is truth...

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Originally Posted by Michelle ma Belle View Post
I've been here myself only in the reverse and had it far worse than you.

First, the idea that women dry up and effectively close up shop after 50 is total bullsh*t! I've known many, many women who are sexually very active long into their 50's, 60's and even 70's, myself included. My mother is 78 and still chases my father around the house. He's the one who can't keep up with her even to this day. Those who keep using old age as some blanket excuse for sexually uninterested women need to put a cork in it because it's simply NOT true.

Second, yes, it is very true that women have the short end of the stick when it comes to 'female issues' that can sometimes affect their libido. I get that. That being said, and in many cases, it doesn't have to mean a death sentence in the bedroom. I think the problem is that too many women give up on themselves after a certain point and get too complacent rather than fight to regain and reclaim their health and vitality. This can also go for men too.
My current GF is 60, and I am 53. Now she was deprived through her marriages and she really did not understand what good sex was about before me, just saying, but wow she learned quick.

She is to the point that she is giving me a run for my money, and that takes some doing.

She seems to think that it is exciting/fun to seduce me when I have to be some where at a certain time. I guess she gets an additional thrill if I really need to leave and I still cannot resist.

And it does not matter how many times we have sex that day, she want it when she wants it.

(BTW, since she is older does that make me a boy toy???)

Age is a number. I have know many women in their 40's, 50's and 60's that have a huge sex drive...
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:31 PM   #40
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I'm not sure what I'm hoping to get out of this, maybe some insight into how others feel so I can decide if I have a real problem that needs to be addressed or I'm just dealing with something that all married couples go through.

To set the stage my wife and I have been married for twenty years, I am 49 and she is 57, we were both married previously and have three children. Our oldest (my daughter) is 28 and no longer at home, she is married and lives elsewhere. My step-daughter is 24 and still lives at home, we have a son together who is 16 and obviously also still lives at home.

Like most married couples our sex life started out vigorous and often, about three to four times a week the first two years. After the birth of our son in year four things started a slow but steady decline. I don't want to paint a picture that we are in a sexless marriage, I have read many threads on this site where poor folks have sex like twice a year or something and we are nothing like that. We have sex now twice a month on average, some months maybe once but mostly two seems the magic number these days.

My wife's interest in sex has faltered far more than mine, she has battled menopause issues and Rheumatoid Arthritis which have negatively affected her libido. Where I am healthy and still desire sex on a regular basis she has made it clear on a number of occasions that she doesn't really think about it anymore and if I was to get hit by a bus tomorrow would probably never have sex again and be perfectly happy that way.

When we do have sex it is generally still pretty good, despite what she says she still seems to enjoy it once we get going. I do find myself almost always being the initiator which makes sense with what I mentioned above though sometimes I find myself longing for her to take the reins. If for no other reason her seducing me would make me feel more wanted, it gets old always having to be the one taking charge.

In every other way our marriage seems very good, its always been an easy relationship, our personalities seem to complement each others well and we have a variety of shared interests.

Over the last four years or so I have grown increasingly frustrated with our sex life, I could easily still be a three or four times a week guy and that simply doesn't work for her. She thinks twice a month is a compromise, if it was totally up to her it would likely be more like once or twice a year. I understand that she has physical limitations but it can get really depressing not being able to be with her.

I have started to wonder recently if the problem might be my own, that I may be hyper-sexual or even addicted to sex in some way. I didn't use to think that but now that I can't count on my wife for regular sex anymore I find that I dwell on it more and more. Between the times we are together I spend a lot of time looking at porn and I self gratify everyday sometimes twice a day. My wife is aware of the porn and she thinks I am just trying to compensate for our lack of sex which is partly true but I think there may be more to it. What usually happens is that her and I have sex and I'm happy, then within a day or two I want to go again and she doesn't so I turn to porn. For the next week I'm generally o.k. with the self gratification but it starts to get old quickly and I long for a true physical connection. From there I start to slowly become more unhappy each day and start to resent my wife who doesn't need sex and seems happy as a clam in everyday life without it. By the time we get to about ten to twelve days or so from the last time we had sex I'm a basket case, angry and withdrawn desperate to be with her. Finally around the two week to three week mark she breaks down and does something for me because she can see I'm very unhappy, then we reset and it starts over.

I guess I am wondering if this is normal for long time married couples? I went to a therapist once a year or so ago and mentioned that I thought I could be addicted to sex in some way because I seem to be incapable of being happy without it but he waved me off. According to him just jerking off to porn everyday doesn't make you an addict, even thinking about sex constantly doesn't indicate that unless it has an obvious debilitating affect on your daily life. Since I can still function at work and in public and I'm not chasing hookers and putting my name on Craigslist seeking companionship he indicated that I was a typical frustrated middle-aged married guy and I just had to suck it up like the rest of us.

All I know is that I hate this treadmill I am on, I never feel truly happy and given that my wife will never prioritizes sex anymore at the level I desire it would seem I am doomed to always feel that way. At least until my libido finally crashes then maybe I won't care either.
Is it possible her meds. are contributing to this? My husband has a form of RA, and his meds.make him feel like absolute crap and there are days he's so drained he can hardly get out of bed ( he's on methotrexate, folic acid, a an anti inflammatory, something for the vertigo caused by the methotrexate and a couple of other meds.)

Some days, I have to help him get into the shower and even put on his socks.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:35 PM   #41
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After thinking about this some more, I think you should approach your wife and ask her if there is anything that she thinks YOU could do to increase her desire to have sex with you. It’s less confrontational that way and instead of coming across as a demand that she has sex with you more, it comes across as an offer from you to do more for her.
I expect she might be very receptive to this. It's a really great idea.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:39 PM   #42
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Michelle Ma Belle and a few others - To those that have asked specifically about the sex, we already compromise on the type as well as the frequency. My wife made it clear years ago that as she had entered menopause sex with penetration had become painful for her. Generally of the two times we do it on average each month only one includes traditional sex with penetration, the other is usually a lot of oral and mutual masturbation. I don't always find the oral/masturbation as satisfying but I can live with it to feel closer to her.

Positions have become a problem over the years, we used to do it all kinds of ways, standing up, spooning, sideways, doggy style, missionary, woman on top, reverse cowgirl, you get the idea. Over the last five years most of those have gone by the wayside due to physical pain for her and some weight gain on her part. Now its pretty much just missionary and doggy and that's it, occasionally she tries to get on top but she moves so little I can't feel much anyway and most of the time I have to fake enthusiasm until she gets tired.

She will perform oral on me and vice versa and I think that is actually her preferred which I don't mind if it happened a bit more often and was preceded by plenty of foreplay. Maybe I'm strange but I don't like to just plunge into sex, I like lots of kissing and dirty talk first and then work your way up. She has a tendency a lot of times to do that for about five minutes and then immediately go down on me and try as hard as she can to get me off as quick as she can. I get depressed sometimes when this happens because its a sure signal that she doesn't really want to be in bed with me she is just trying to mollify me so she can get some sleep.

I tried to introduce toys in the bedroom but she thinks the whole thing is just silly and doesn't know why a woman would stick a piece of shaking plastic inside them, so so much for that.
Try re framing this.

It doesn't sound like sex is that great for her, and it my even be painful now. Even so, she is still willing to do what she can to give you pleasure.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:40 PM   #43
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Elswyth - I don't want to give the wrong impression here, I have no problem with her going out to lunch with her Mom, her Mom is a total sweetie and I love her to death myself. I was just pointing out that she had four hours before she had to pick her Mom up, and sex would have taken a small fraction of that. It was a very rare moment when both kids were out of the house and believe me when I say that is a very very rare moment. Also she had been feeling fine earlier it was only when I brought up sex that she suddenly started feeling bad this morning.

I actually tried to get her to come to bed early the night before but she said she was to tired for sex, she then stayed up until 12:30am to watch a John Cusack movie. Apparently she was too tired for sex but not tired enough to go to bed at a normal time.
Yeah, this does sound quite concerning to me, in addition to the fact that she tried to pathologize you for wanting sex more often than once very two weeks. It would be one thing if she acknowledged it and was trying to find ways with you to work around her RA... It's another thing entirely to try and avoid the issue and blame it on you.

I don't know what to advise at this stage unfortunately. I do want to stress that the absolute last thing you want to do is to try and push for higher frequency without desire - that will likely be unsatisfactory for both parties and reduce her desire even further. Feeling obligated to have sex is one of the least sexy feelings out there, which often results in a vicious cycle where things get worse and worse. Ideally she would try to work with you to figure out how to increase her desire, but if she's unwilling to do that then I'm not sure what else can be done.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:41 PM   #44
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How do we compromise? By definition compromise is meeting in the middle. Your wife sees 2x a month as a compromise or 24 x a year although sometimes she leans towards less than 2x a month which is in her favor. You prefer 3-4x a week which is not hypersexual. So if your desires were met 3-4= 3.5 x 52 weeks = 182 times a year would be what would meet your needs and 24 x's a year would work for your wife.

Based on what you wrote if you were hit by a train she would be fine without sex so the times she does have sex she does not want it although you say she does seem to enjoy on occasions when she does have it. Where does that leave your wife? If she could do without sex and agrees to 24 x's a year she gets what she wants 365-24=341 days out of the year plus the days she enjoys when you do have sex. You want sex 182 x a year and get it 24 x a year = 24 days you get what you want and 158 days you do not get what you want.

If you want to compromise (meet in the middle) you have to move from a theoretical 24 x's a year to an actual 91 days a year (182/2). I realize this is a numerical approach that does not illicit warm and fuzzy feelings but that does not take away from the fact that your wife gets what she wants (she wants to not have sex) 341 days out of the year and you get what you want 24 days out of the year if she sticks to her twice a month times you have sex which does not sound like is set in stone. If she enjoyed it 10 times during it would be fair to say she got what she wanted 351 days out of the year.

When 2 people decide to commit to marriage they are no longer captains of their own ship. They sail through life together. Not all marriages are monogamous but the intent for the vast majority of those who enter into marriage is fidelity. As such each partner is the only person on the planet who can meet their sexual needs. Married partners share a monopoly on partnered sex with their spouses. In marriage we do things we do not always want to do. My wife and I walked into our house to the smell and sight of a pile of crap our dog left on the floor. Did either of us desire cleaning it up? No. Nor did we desire leaving it there. In this case I cleaned it up.

It is a fact of life we do what we have to do and not always what we want to do whether the desire is there or not. It is also a fact that it stings when you are the high drive partner in a marriage and your partner does what they have no desire to do in order compromise and meet your needs. It is especially true when sex means more than just having sex and is a major part of what bonds you to your spouse.

There is a reason mismatched libidos are a common topic. I'm sure the coldness of my mathematical approach to differing sex drives will be skewered but if the frequency of sex is an issue, 1 partner wants more and 1 partner wants less there has to be a means to determine how to derive where the middle is if a couple wants to compromise and meet there.
Um, yeah.

When I rad this, all I could think was maybe if the sex was a bit better, the woman might want it more.

I don't think this is what's going on with the op.He sounds like he is trying to make it good for her too. The thing is that if it is painful due to her RA, there may not be much he can do.
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Old 13th December 2017, 3:43 PM   #45
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t

Google "responsive vs spontaneous desire".

Also many people with chronic conditions tend to pace themselves, by that I mean they know their limitations so instead of approaching the day like a normal person would and go with the flow, they know that if they do something that may trigger pain or excess fatigue, they know that whatever else they had planned may be affected adversely or be impossible to do.

For instance
I could take the dogs out for a walk now, but if I do that I may not be able to do some shopping at 2 and meet my friend for coffee, so I will rest, then go shopping and meet my friend, rest again then take the dogs out for a walk in the evening.

Maybe your wife knew that the sex was too much on top of the other stuff she had planned for that day.
I guess your wife with RA may be a lot less fit than her very elderly mother...
An excellent analysis.
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