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NO remorse for [wife's past] cheating


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Old 14th February 2018, 7:50 AM   #61
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Lolablu17, why do you think she waited till after our first child to tell me all the details? Why was the Valentines week end literally a week end of sex? Her years of sexual adventure seemed over, we were in a monogamous relationship for just over two years. You said, “…her dishonesty wasn't a misunderstanding, but a clear blunt manipulation and interest to achieve her goal - a marriage proposal.” I understand the manipulation to achieve her goal of marriage, but why the intimacies with that stranger? Was she hoping to hook him into a proposal if I didn’t ask? Her just telling me over the phone she had a date was enough to get me off the bench. Others here have implied her declaration over the phone she was going to date another man gave her the freedom to do what ever she wanted with him, and no guilt. That she was breaking up with me.
I never saw it that way. Is this why she has no guilt? But then why did she continue to be intimate with him during our engagement period? Was she playing her options with him? When he didn’t ask her, she just defaulted to me? You stated, ”I admire your consent to be the one who bares the misery in your marriage. I know I wouldn't. I'm not such a noble man,” I’m not noble. For some reason I love her. Just like the once husband, now butler in the book and movie Sunset Boulevard, he stayed because of love or maybe admiration. Your right about deception, it was a few years into our marriage before she told me about her frequent sex with him during the engagement period.
S2B you said, “Divorce should always be an option. The fact that you won't divorce her is exactly why she will always disrespect you.” I won’t or can’t divorce her, at my age now, what do I gain? When I weigh the options I only have one decision, stay married. I have many friends and activities which are quite emotionally fulfilling, and fill my days. The social groups I’m in and my children and grand children are probably what keep me emotionally content. Then there is the obligatory intimacy between my wife and I which takes care of that part of my life.
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Old 14th February 2018, 9:21 AM   #62
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Rog, that weekend she did not cheat on you. Because you did not want the
break up did not mean it did not happen. It only takes one person to end a
relationship. She broke up with you.

Though during the time you were engaged she did cheat on you. Knowing
your WW's past I would not be able to sleep anymore until I had paternity
tests done on all of my kids.

Because her cheating, waiting years to tell you, refusing to talk about the
cheating, and taking the blame and responsibility would have left me
paranoid. I would tell WW this.

It sucks to have a WW, whether 3 months, 3 years, 30 years and she will
not end the trickle truthing. They know that they do not have to give us the
truth because we will not leave.

A lot to lose if we leave late in our lives. Give up a house with a mortgage
that chances are I will die before it is paid off. Then I would only be able
to afford to live in my car. Over simplification but more details are not
needed.
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Old 14th February 2018, 9:40 AM   #63
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Hi Rog, sorry you're still tormenting yourself. Quite frankly you won't get your answers from folks on here because whatever they say will not satisfy you. You will only get the answers from within you. The fact is that whatever turmoil is tearing you apart has it's genesis in the choices you made so many years ago. Those choices, once made are one way streets. You can only proceed in one direction. The only change that can come about is one that you engineer. Your wife has proved steadfastly that she is not one whit remorseful. Obviously she does not regret what she did and her so called honesty in telling you in graphic detail what she did with her OM was to rid herself of residual guilt feelings that she may have had. In doing so she had no concern for the emotional hit which she knew you would take. That is because at heart she does not love and respect you. She was not the kind of woman any of her other beaus would have chosen to marry. For them she was a good time girl to have fun with and discard. When she found that you were serious about her she reformed her ways and became monogamous with you. However, after waiting for two years when she found you were dithering and not proposing to her she lost patience with you and was ready to go on the rampage again. Her Valentine weekend fling was going to be the start of her new innings with a new set of beaus. You surprised her by proposing to her and she changed tracks again, accepted your proposal and hopefully stayed on the straight and narrow ever since you married her. Her purpose of being married to someone, anyone, eventuated with your offering to marry her. This does not mean that she therefore fell in love with you.

The reason she has not been remorseful is because she did not love you and never has. You were just her ticket to ride. Now in the twilight of your lives you are feeling betrayed and being done out of your marital right to be loved by your spouse. I doubt your anguish moves her at all. She has had her marriage and her status as a married woman, had her children and in general lead a comfortable and respectable life as your wife. Even if you divorce her now she stands to lose very little. She will get half of everything you own and will probably get some sort of social security benefits to boot so she will be comfortable enough on her own. She may also start sleeping around again in age appropriate circles.

Be that as it may, if you feel so strongly about this then initiate divorce proceedings and sever your ties with her. Alternatively, enjoy the companionship she offers you and any conjugal benefits she still provides you and be happy at this stage of your life. Frankly, there is nothing much else you can do now. The bus you are looking for left a long long time ago. What was that saying or was it a song which was popular a while ago? 'Don't worry be Happy! Warm wishes.
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Old 14th February 2018, 1:30 PM   #64
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Road, Just A Guy and others, thank you for your cogent arguments.
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Old 14th February 2018, 6:52 PM   #65
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My dear rog: What exactly do you wish to happen?
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Old 14th February 2018, 8:31 PM   #66
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I think counseling will help you accept what seems unacceptable - given that you won't divorce her you need to resolve this in your mind.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:13 AM   #67
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lolablue17 I just want to be loved by a women I love. To have my face stroked and have chills and that strange feeling I had with my first kiss. To hear the words which I haven't heard in years from my wife, I LOVE YOU. I hope this doesn't sound to wimpy from someone my age. It's not money or tangible things I want. At my age I just want to know that the women I care for emotionally has my back. I have friends and am very active and I get strength from them. I want to travel that road less traveled with some one who shares my dreams. If I'm lucky I have maybe 10 years left to live. I want to wake up next to someone who smiles at me with a twinkle in their eye and gives me a good morning kiss, as well as, may be something more.
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Old 15th February 2018, 1:00 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
lolablue17 I just want to be loved by a women I love. To have my face stroked and have chills and that strange feeling I had with my first kiss. To hear the words which I haven't heard in years from my wife, I LOVE YOU. I hope this doesn't sound to wimpy from someone my age. It's not money or tangible things I want. At my age I just want to know that the women I care for emotionally has my back. I have friends and am very active and I get strength from them. I want to travel that road less traveled with some one who shares my dreams. If I'm lucky I have maybe 10 years left to live. I want to wake up next to someone who smiles at me with a twinkle in their eye and gives me a good morning kiss, as well as, may be something more.
I don't get it - you know what you want/need. You know you're not gonna get that from your wife.

Are you saying you want to cheat so you can get your needs met? I'm very confused about what you are looking for here. Please clarify.
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Old 15th February 2018, 2:22 AM   #69
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Hi S2B, I think he is longing for the unattainable. He wants his wife to show him love. She can't do that because she has never loved him from the start. So I guess he can only dream. Warm wishes.
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Old 15th February 2018, 8:50 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by S2B View Post
I don't get it - you know what you want/need. You know you're not gonna get that from your wife.

Are you saying you want to cheat so you can get your needs met? I'm very confused about what you are looking for here. Please clarify.
I do not see where he said he wants to cheat.
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Old 15th February 2018, 9:09 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
Hi S2B, I think he is longing for the unattainable. He wants his wife to show him love. She can't do that because she has never loved him from the start. So I guess he can only dream. Warm wishes.
This post made re-read the first post. It appears that his wife was using
sex to get a husband.

At this time Rog such insist on IC together for the affair was
rug swept, not recovered from. His wife has to learn that confessing,
which was the right thing to do is not all she had to do. She needs a
professional to get her to see this.

As is said she has to own what she did. Rog, find a good IC and book
a session then tell your the both of you are going. Because her confessing
about the affair was just the start. That you need the marriage healed
before you die.
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Old 16th February 2018, 3:47 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
February’s have been very difficult for me; it is a constant reminder of her sexual weekend. I constantly replay the mental pictures of her and him doing sexual activities she told me they did together; a couple of things we have never done. When my wife told me about that weekend she was quite graphic. I wish she had just kept it to herself. To make things worse, they had had sex about 2 hours before I asked her to marry me. And we were intimate to celebrate our engagement.

After all these years my anger has remained constant. I have been to counseling; the graphic pictures are always there. When my wife and I have sex I'm extremely aggressive and rough with her. It has been this way for years. May anger and agonies will only stop when I'm dead.

My wife has never apologized or said I'm sorry.

I believe her, but as I've said those mental movies are there 24/7 and as the years have past the pictures have gotten extremely graphic.
WOW, just wow for so many reasons. Rog, my friend, we have much in common and reading your story has given me insight. For one thing, I'm only a few years from you in age and for another I also find myself in your state of agony at times - at times but not constantly as you are. There are so many things in your story to address that I'm going to deal with the rest of them in a separate thread and deal with the huge one that - to me - is so obvious.

It seems to me that the main problem that keeps you in torture is PTSD. Valentine's Day is a principal trigger. You have all the classic signs. All of the advice, cognitive therapy, self-talk in the world is not going to change anything until the trauma of that event ceases to control you.

When I say classic, I mean what I've experienced and seen here as classic for betrayed spouses. You believed sexual intimacy with that person to be an exclusive world between you that set you apart from everyone else and bound you to each other. You also believed that this person had the same core beliefs and attitudes about what you (thought you) shared. You see that she willfully, easily shared this intimacy with another and, therefore, your exclusive world did not exist for her. Therefore, whatever you thought and felt was humiliatingly wrong. Worse, she'd shared it with someone else in the most casual and indifferent manner. And, as if it couldn't get any worse, she gave you a lurid, detailed description of the events.

When this reality is blown out from under you, it is a SHOCK to every part of your being. The mental images of those acts and the deep cataclysmic anguish they caused upon your discovery of them have become irrevocably linked. So now when some trigger sets off those images, the whole roller-coaster of emotions and physical responses are also set off.

Sexuality is such a deep, primal connection between mates that it's massive when it is disturbed. You cannot make it right again; you cannot think it back. I think there must be behavioral treatment for PTSD in betrayed spouses. You should ask your new therapist. I am sure s/he would not want to advise you to go to someone else at this point and probably feels confident and invested. Regardless, I think you will not be able to move any direction until you are free of the trauma you still carry.

Last edited by merrmeade; 16th February 2018 at 4:04 AM.. Reason: unfinished parts
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Old 16th February 2018, 6:05 AM   #73
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The other reason I think that you'll be free and can start a new life is because of this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
Since the wedding we have only been with each other sexually and no one else for the last 46 years.
She's been faithful for 46 years. No one else. My god, man, that's got to mean something. This woman who'd been completely promiscuous stopped that lifestyle and committed herself to an exclusive relationship with you for forty-freaking-six years! I mean, my discovery was that my husband had been unfaithful not once, not twice, not even three times but five times intimately and more if you count the constant flirtations. You didn't have that. She left that life behind and committed herself to you and you alone.

This is another reason right there that you need to deal with that PTSD and find a way to understand this woman and appreciate her commitment to you or am I missing something? Have you been alluding to something withdrawn or cold about her treatment of you? Then why has she stayed with you? Somehow I think her side of things is crucial and that there is love there.

Personally I think you both desperately need help seeing and appreciating the depths of your commitment and love for each other. (1) She absolutely MUST see, understand and FEEL what you felt and why. She MUST give you that apology you so desperately need and deserve. She's lacking the understanding and, therefore, the compassion needed to feel your suffering and want to alleviate it. You owe it to both of you to do everything you can with professional help to MAKE HER SEE THIS. (2) On your part, I think you need to understand better what her fundamental attitudes were about sex when you met, courted and married her. Maybe your group members are right and you have a primal attraction to her freer sexuality and at the same time are offended by it. I don't know. I don't like that kind of speculation from a web page, but I do believe you that she has known who she is as a sexual being for a long time (and still, man, she freaking committed herself to YOU).

This part is so opposite my situation. My husband also loved flirting and having sex and also got a lot of it before we met - but didn't stop. Your wife stopped! Well, so you say - but that's what we have to go on.

I'd just like to comment underneath each quote to try and bring this too-long treatise to a close finally:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
Since the wedding we have only been with each other sexually and no one else for the last 46 years.
Already commented on this a lot.
Quote:
While we were dating I believed her past wouldn't matter to me; but it did. At times my jalousie would create arguments and a couple of times we almost broke up. The first date I had with her we slept together and I knew she had slept with many others on the first date as well. She had told me not to bother with condoms, she preferred sex without them; said she was on the pill. We dated for almost 2 years and as I grew to love her, her sexual past wasn't important to me any longer.
Okay, so two comments:
1) What I get here is that her previous promiscuity bothered you, the fact that she was sexually active, experienced, uninhibited and willing was who she was. But you were so smitten, you just buried those reservations.

2) Now, this is really important because I am probably the only poster on here right now who was a young adult in 1970. It's 1970 we're talking about. Think about that, everyone: 1970. And the years before that? The sixties. And, yes, it WAS like that. It was all the time, anyone, everyone. Sex was nice. Sex was good. It's not called the sexual revolution for nothing. Everyone - EVERYone - was affected in one way or another. The way we dressed, danced, touched, moved changed the world. So don't omit the very important fact of the times when you imply your wife's lifestyle was loose or inappropriate. It simply was not for 1970.

And one more thing, it's also not surprising that, though promiscuous, she still had the model of monogamy and family stability in her head. That seems to be just what she did: She left it behind for the man she chose to spend her life with.

It sounds like you were a few years older, already working and established. It certainly doesn't sound like you jumped head first into love and peace scene. Anyway, I think you need to address this attitude difference between you in couples counseling. Moreover, I think it and a lot of other things will take on relatively less importance once you get your PTSD under control.
Quote:
However tensions were building because she kept bringing up marriage and I kept avoiding the conversations as much as possible.
In February of 1970 I had to go to another city for business and she told me that when I got back we needed to talk about breaking up. I was devastated; I loved her and didn't want to lose her. I believed she was pushing me into a decision I had to make. I decided that when I got back I would propose to her on Valentines Day.

While out of town I would call her almost daily. The call I made to her on Thursday was emotionally devastating. She told me some guy she just met at the gas station asked her out for Friday night, the next day and she said yes. This was 2 days before Valentines Day. I told her I didn't want her seeing any one else, we argued, she said she was and she hung up. I wanted to rush back to her but I couldn't leave for 2 more days. That Sunday Valentines day I called her and told her I wanted to ask her something important. She said we'd talk when I got back. I got back to her around 4:30 Sunday. I proposed, and she said yes. We were married a few months later and we had our first child 9 months later.

It was a short time after our son's birth that my world disintegrated. For what ever reason my wife said she needed to tell me something; it might have been post partum depression, I don't know.
So let's get this straight - facts [and commentary]:

FACT: She really wanted to get married, but you were dragging your feet.
[She was pissed and decided she couldn't give up any more of her life waiting on your indecisiveness.]

FACT: She picked up a guy and shacked up with him from the first day.
[Why does this bother you? This is who she'd been, and you'd been waffling for a long time. And she was pissed.]

FACT: You called and begged and she refused.
[You hadn't given her enough reason to trust that you'd follow through with a promise on the phone.]

FACT: Finally, you came back and asked her to marry you.
[She didn't have proof that you were serious until this.]

FACT: She said 'yes' as soon as you asked her.
[This means it's YOU she really wanted.]

Now, I do agree with you that the fact that she was still with him until 2 hours before you showed up is a problem. It was also obviously a problem for her: She even confessed it a year later.

But the fact that she stayed monogamous for 46 years means it's you she still wants.
Btw suggestions that the child could've been the gas station guy's don't work since you got married a few months after Valentine's Day.
Quote:
My wife has never apologized or said I'm sorry. She believes she did nothing wrong, that she was gong to end our relationship when I got back.

She has told me over the years that she always loved the feel of a man's body pressing against hers. That sex with a stranger was nothing more or less than a personal handshake.

That she loves me and that's all that matters.

I believe her, but as I've said those mental movies are there 24/7 and as the years have past the pictures have gotten extremely graphic.
Well, frankly I agree with her. She loves you and that's all that matters.
But that doesn't change the fact of your PTSD. I truly believe that if you get that treated and you do couples counseling, you're going to be free and happy.

Last edited by merrmeade; 16th February 2018 at 6:24 AM..
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Old 16th February 2018, 9:46 AM   #74
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FACT: She really wanted to get married, but you were dragging your feet.
[She was pissed and decided she couldn't give up any more of her life waiting on your indecisiveness.]

FACT: She picked up a guy and shacked up with him from the first day.
[Why does this bother you? This is who she'd been, and you'd been waffling for a long time. And she was pissed.]

FACT: You called and begged and she refused.
[You hadn't given her enough reason to trust that you'd follow through with a promise on the phone.]

FACT: Finally, you came back and asked her to marry you.
[She didn't have proof that you were serious until this.]

FACT: She said 'yes' as soon as you asked her.
[This means it's YOU she really wanted.]

Now, I do agree with you that the fact that she was still with him until 2 hours before you showed up is a problem. It was also obviously a problem for her: She even confessed it a year later.

But the fact that she stayed monogamous for 46 years means it's you she still wants. [/INDENT]Btw suggestions that the child could've been the gas station guy's don't work since you got married a few months after Valentine's Day.
Well, frankly I agree with her. She loves you and that's all that matters.
But that doesn't change the fact of your PTSD. I truly believe that if you get that treated and you do couples counseling, you're going to be free and happy.
I agree that they need counseling and just told him to setup an
appointment and tell his WW that they both going.

Yes his WW had a past. Most women do. Though being it was the past
men will ignore it as the rule. As did Rog.

You left out an important fact. The most important fact. That
his WW keep having sex with the OM after the proposal while
they were engaged.

Rog felt disgusted when he found out. Being that was still in the past
he stuffed it down.

Then he finds out after his child is born that he WW kept having sex
with the OM while they were engaged. Then instead of being kind when
telling Rog about the details she tells Rog how he never was as good
and never will be as good as the OM in bed.

She has given him duty sex for 46 years. And still tells him to stuff it.
At least he got the whole truth. Wish I could say that.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:46 AM   #75
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I have some empathy and sympathy.

You say you have 10 years left.

Sometimes we may not find full meaning and love from our spouse - maybe only bits and pieces.

I suggest you spend your remaining 10 or more years of your life seeking deep meaning and peace from other sources - other than your wife. Surely man your life has been more than just what your spouse - did - or did not do - for you.

I am sad my own wife cheated (had little remorse) and later lost her sexual drive for me - really I am depressed over it even now - but my life has much more to it. It has love, respect and admiration from others - and accomplishments in life that I am proud of. I also accept my wife does love me - just not in a way that I would fully want.
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Last edited by dichotomy; 16th February 2018 at 11:48 AM..
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