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Old sins resurfacing


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northwind79

I'm going through a tough time with my wife at the moment. The problem is a mistake from the past that now is resurfacing.

 

About 6 years ago I became friends with a young woman at work. After a while I suspected that she was attracted to me, and I suppose that I was flattered, because she was an attractive woman. We spoke to each other at work, and one day she started chatting with me on Facebook.

 

I suppose that I should have said to her right there and then that we can't chat on Facebook, but I didn't, mainly because the chats were not intimate or anything like that, but pretty much like a chat that I would have with any of my guy friends. We chatted on Facebook maybe 4 or 5 times over the course of 3 months. She also had a boyfriend who she would tell me about, so I took the chats as just being chats between two friends.

 

I didn't tell my wife because she has a tendency to be jealous, and I rationalized this in my mind by thinking that I don't tell her when I chat with any of my guyfriends either.

 

Needless to say, she found out that I had been chatting with my co-worker, and we had a huge argument about it 6 years ago. I told her then that nothing had happened, and that we had been chatting 4 or 5 times, that nothing was going on, and that we were just friends. My wife was upset for a couple of days, but I thought that things were settled.

 

Fast forward to now. All of a sudden one night I wake up in the middle of the night when she's standing up next to my side of the bed and says that I have been lying to her. That I'm talking to some woman online, and that I'm having some type of affair. Since I'm not chatting with anyone online, except for some guy friends on Facebook from time to time I didn't understand what she was talking about. She said that she had some dream about me and some other woman, and she was certain that it was someone that I was having some affair with online. Again I said that I'm not talking to anyone. She asked if I'm talking to anyone just as friends, and I said no. She then asked me if I had talked to anyone in the past, and I said that except for that woman I spoke with 6 years ago I haven't spoken to anyone. She kept repeating the questions, if there was anyone else and if there was someone that I was protecting. I said there has been no one else, which is the truth.

 

She kept on interrogating me every day for a few days, and eventually she started focusing on the chats I had 6 years ago with this girl, asking me details about them. She accused me of having an emotional affair and we had a few huge arguments about it. I again thought it was settled once and for all, but now she's having random outbursts about this exact same topic.

 

I guess I wonder if

1. Was I wrong to talk to a female co-worker, even if we were just friends? I do believe that I was playing with fire, because I believe that she was attracted to me even though she had a boyfriend, and I also found her to be attractive, but we only ever interacted as friends. There were no intimate details discussed, nor was there any sexual talk. Personally I feel that it was inappropriate, and I would not do it again with anyone without telling my wife that a woman is sending me messages.

2. Could this be considered an emotional affair? I feel that it's not considering we're talking about 4-5 chats over a period of 3 months, and nothing intimate or sexual was discussed. I also did not have any feelings for her except for finding her attractive.

 

This whole story is making my life miserable right now. I think my wife is blowing this way out of proportion for something that happened many years ago, that I thought was settled then, and that I had forgotten all about. She thinks that I'm an ******* for chatting with some girl who I found to be attractive and she keeps asking if we ever had a physical affair, which of course is ludicrous. At this point I don't know what to do. Any advice would be much appreciated.

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Wow. The problem is that once a wife knows what you did, she can forgive but never forget. Kind of cray cray to accuse you due to a dream though.

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If a woman FEELS something, to her it's REAL. If a woman believes you are the most horrible human being ever and worse than Hitler...then you are the most horrible human being ever and worse than Hitler. Women are as certain of their feelings as you are that 2+2=4. This is why marrying an emotionally unstable woman is truly a life sentence for a man.

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I guess if she puts you on the defensive then you're not paying attention to what she may be doing.

 

Start checking to see if she's cheating. My exH used to do this when he cheated. I never cheated but he did - and would get crazy this way so I didn't see what I needed to see.

 

Start checking on her!

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Sorry to say, but the others are right. Your wife is cheating, most likely. The deflection you are experiencing is brought about by her guilty conscience, because if she can demonize you, then she can rationalize her own bad behavior. You need to get to the bottom of this. First, don't tell her anything. Then begin your own investigation - and prepare yourself. Also, be ready for her to blame her affair totally on you, but don't fall for her BS. Good Luck.

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Wow, I didn't that one coming (the possible affair of the wife) but thinking about it, it could be.

 

I mean, waking up in the middle of the night and start digging up a very minor indiscretion 6 years ago is kind of cray cray. I immediately pictured the OP's wife as that of Carrie's mother in the 1976 film Carrie hahaha

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northwind79

Thanks for the replies. The thought that she might have an affair herself did cross my mind, and I did some digging, but couldn't find anything. What's more likely is that she's unhappy with life itself at the moment, is blaming me for it, and is using this as a way to inflict pain on me.

 

Lately she keeps repeating how I get everything and that she gets nothing. How I have a job, I have a car, I have a place to live and I even get to have a girl who I can have fun with. She says that she must be so insignificant to me that I don't give her anything that she wants and that everything is all about me. This of course is not true since I pay for all of our bills and last year, after being unemployed for a long time, she wanted to open up a small store, so I financed that, and I also help her run it. I also don't even talk about the bills or financing the store so that she wouldn't feel guilty about it. Perhaps that's why it's so easy for her to say now that I don't give her anything.

 

I guess the store isn't doing as well as she hoped it would do, then again it's only one year old and I keep telling her that she can't expect miracles. The sales are also rising steadily so it's just a matter of time before it becomes profitable, even though we're not quite there yet. I supposed that is the reason why she's become so upset and emotional lately. I tell her that I wish she could channel her negative energy into improving the store's sales, but she says that's impossible.

 

I'm leaning towards bringing up the subject of her going to some type of therapy or counseling, but I'm quite concerned of how she will take it.

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YOU thought it was done and dusted and "nothing" but I guess your wife didn't and I guess something has happened that has triggered her into raking up the whole business again.

 

She may have been discussing similar affairs with friends or read something on the internet or someone told her something about this woman recently, or she perhaps feels she never actually got the answers she wanted at the time, and it has preyed on her mind.

She may be be feeling particularly insecure just now and feels you may be up to your old tricks again.

Who knows?

It could be anything, but people tend not to forget cheating easily and whilst you as the WS feel she should have just got over it by now, that may not be how she sees it.

 

Betrayal is a huge thing and whilst to you it may be a fairly "minor" incident as you know the full extent of it, your wife does not know what actually happened and I guess she has put two and two together recently and is no longer willing to sweep it under the carpet.

 

Women rarely forget such incidents and whilst many woman may decide to "keep the peace" and thus keep quiet, they tend to store them up and they are often far from "settled", as you are now finding out.

 

How old are you, how long have you been married and has anything happened recently that may have triggered this, and reduced her trust in you again?

 

Is you marriage pretty stable generally or is she maybe just looking for an excuse to leave?

Although many people will on the surface accept cheating and reconcile, many will leave years later as they never really get over it and the marriage to them is never the same again.

 

(BTW of course it was an emotional affair.

You were chatting to co-worker online who you were attracted to and who you knew was attracted to you too, and you hid it from your wife as you knew it was wrong.)

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somanymistakes

The problem with you and your wife right now is not primarily about a few facebook chats you had six years ago. (Assuming of course that your story about them is accurate.)

 

There is something else going on. Maybe it's that she's cheating on you. Maybe it's that she's extremely unhappy in the marriage for some other reason and is desperately looking for an explanation for her own emotions. I don't know. But this is NOT primarily about your "old sins". This is about her... and about you.

 

I'm leaning towards bringing up the subject of her going to some type of therapy or counseling, but I'm quite concerned of how she will take it.

 

Packing her off to therapy without you will probably backfire. If she's actually cheating and is projecting guilt onto you to cover her own sins, this will make her more defensive. If she's actually unhappy and feels neglected and like you get everything and she doesn't, then this will make her feel like you're rejecting her and saying she's defective.

 

You two need some sort of couples communication facilitation, to reassure her that you're in this together, and to get her to try and get to the bottom of what's really bothering her.

 

---

 

now on the question of the 'emotional affair' which I'm handling separately because like I said I do not think this is the real problem:

 

By my definition it does not qualify as a full-blown emotional affair, if everything you said about it is accurate. I reserve that term for in-depth passionate bonding with promises of love and dreams of being together. This was not that.

 

However, it was flirtatious on your part. You were (lightly) flirting with a woman and you were intentionally hiding it from your wife because you knew she'd be jealous.

 

I don't see a need to stick a fancy label on that to make it sound any bigger or smaller than what it was. But when the thought process of "I shouldn't tell my wife, she'd be jealous" hits your brain, you need to think about what that means.

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She is unhappy for some reason and this 6 years ago thing is a smoke screen. I am not sure she's cheating. I think she feels inadequate, and she is trying to dredge up your "failures" to balance the scales in her mind. This is unfair, of course, but that is what it smells like to me. When she said "you even have a girl to have fun with," to whom was she referring?

 

The other option is this: does she spend a lot of time online? If she's been stumbling around looking for marriage help, she may have stumbled upon one of those militant sites that says breathing the same air as the opposite sex might be an affair, and THEY have filled her head with nonsense and focused her back six years ago. If that is the case, then you have to hope she's not in too deep, or this will NEVER go away.

 

Do the two of you have a transparent lifestyle? Does she have your passwords and you have hers? If so, then reassure her she is free to look at anything anytime. If she finds nothing, it might help. In the meantime, keep digging because she might be deflecting.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Thanks for all the replies. Here are some answers to your questions.

 

I am 37 and she is 35. We have been married for 8 years.

 

Our marriage has had its ups and downs over the years, but over the past two years or so it’s been very good and stable - until now.

 

We have a transparent lifestyle. She has access to my Facebook, phone, computers, personal email and any other social media. What she does not have access to is my work phone and my work email.

 

As for the supposed emotional affair - I’m not inclined to agree that it was that, because a handful of platonic chats over the course of three months could not possibly fit the criteria. And yes, it is possible to have a platonic relationship with someone one finds to be attractive.

 

Anyways, I’ve managed to discuss this matter more in depth with my wife now, and supposedly all of this stems from some sort of online medium who my wife asked to do a reading. This medium supposedly could “see” that I was having some sort of affair of some kind. After it became clear that I did not have an affair, and that I was not in contact with any woman, she insisted that my wife would press me again on whatever online chats that I’ve had in the past, because supposedly I was “hiding” something, so this is the reason why my wife kept pressing me for details. Nothing new came up that wasn’t discussed in the past, but it’s torn up something inside my wife.

 

She cannot tolerate that I find any other woman attractive, because in her mind that is almost the same as me having sex with said woman. Many years ago we had some humongous argument about some celebrity that I thought was attractive and said that I had fantasized about. She was mad at me for months afterwards, because in her mind if I had a sexual fantasy about someone, even some celebrity who I will never meet in my life, that means that I’m in cheating on her in my thoughts. She was also the one who kept pressing me to reveal my fantasy to her. I kept avoid the subject but it came to the point where I either had to lie or tell her my fantasy.

 

So what this means is that at the moment we fight over ridiculous stuff because she will randomly feel upset over what happened. She keeps dredging up stuff from the past that were not even wrong or inappropriate. Just the other day she was at my throat because at my previous workplace I supposedly gave girls rides in my car and she couldn’t understand why I would do such a thing. The full story is that at that workplace we would be playing floor ball once a week, and I would often drive to the sports hall, and some of my colleagues would come with me. Plus we were a mixed group, so at any given time there would probably be two girls and two guys, one girl and three guys, or three girls and one guy getting a ride from me. Afterwards I would send everyone back to the office and I would then go home. She knows this, but somehow she finds this to be suspicious. She didn’t mention anything about it when it happened, but she started to bring it up occasionally after I changed jobs, so it’s not even the first time we’ve had a fight about this.

 

Also she keeps arguing with me about how I was constantly away on parties at my previous workplace while she was home alone. I worked there for two and a half years, and during that time I went to two christmas parties, two midsummer parties and two house warming parties. Hardly an excessive amount. Furthermore, my wife was invited to four out of those six parties but she didn’t want to go. She’s even complained to her friends about me going to parties all the time to the point where they’re mad at me and think that I don’t take my responsibility as a husband, because they think that I’m out partying every weekend. What she’s upset about is of course not how often I went to parties, but that I went to parties at all, because she thinks that I drink and have sex with girls. Do note that I don’t drink, and she of course knows this.

 

All in all my wife is back to being her jealous self. The sad thing is that over the past two years she’s come a long way to become more stable emotionally, but after this thing with the medium she’s regressed to how things three or four years ago when she had some kind of mental breakdown. Then she managed to stabilize herself by doing a lot of meditation, so I’m gently trying to suggest that she starts meditating again. I just am not sure how long I can take all of this…

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I'm not sure she's cheating but I sort of did this when my affair had started. I was completely crazy at him and accused him of having an affair which was not true. I also pointed out his short comings.

You might want to come home from work early a couple times or find another way to see if you can catch her. Affairs can go on for many years without the spouse knowing and blaming themselves for the spouses outbursts.

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somanymistakes

Okay, yeah, it sounds like this 'medium' has found her weak spot and preyed on building up those insecurities in order to make the medium sound more important and wise. they don't want to admit that they're selling a line of BS, so they insist harder and harder that they're right and everything that you say otherwise just proves what a liar you are.

 

it's very hard to argue against this sort of irrational thinking once it gets set in, because it's impossible to prove that nothing ever happened.

 

the logical argument side of me wants to try and find a way to get her to prove to herself that this 'medium' does not know crap, but it can be hard for logical arguments to prevail in these situations.

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The odds are that she is cheating, and is transferring her guilt onto you for what she perceives (erroneously) as a past emotional affair (which it wasn't - as you say, a few platonic chats does not cross boundaries). IF she is cheating, she'll use your past "behavior" as justification.

 

 

Anyway, if you're both transparent, check her FB and phone, etc., and your phone bill for unknown, repeated calls or texts. Something is definitely going on, as otherwise this is totally irrational behavior on her part.

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I feel for the guy. Living with a hyper-jealous person is a 2nd full time job. The initial 'indiscretion' in my opinion was an over reaction to begin with.

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You mention she had mental health issues in the past. Is it possible this is the start of that again? If so, how would she handle it if you pointed that out to her in a gentle way?

 

Also, and this may sound out of left field, but is it possible she's pregnant and her hormones are ramping up?

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Hi northwind, this is an awful situation for you to be in. From all that you have written it is apparent that your wife is very insecure and suffers from low self esteem. These traits are a springboard for leading her on to cheat even if she isn't doing so at present. If I may ask, do you two have children? If not, is it a mutual decision or a unilateral one? If it is unilateral which of you took that decision?. How long did the two of you date and did her jealousies and insecurities reveal themselves at that time? What kind of relationship did your wife have with her parents and siblings? Was it happy and healthy or was there a lot of unhappiness/bickering in the home while she was growing up? Was there any infidelity involving her parents? What is your sex life like? Is it below average and unsatisfactory, just average or is it off the charts? Who between the two of you has a higher sex drive and does the other partner cooperate in fulfilling the which sex drive partner's desires? I ask because if there are major problems in your sex life stemming from her side then she may have been sexually abused as a child.

 

Considering that you have helped set up her store and financed it and that you assist her when you can it does seem ungrateful of her to state that you have everything and all the fun too, whereas she is left high and dry. As I said this attitude stems from a deep sense of insecurity and she may need intensive therapy to help her overcome this problem. I would also suggest that you become more firm in rejecting her insinuations about indiscretions on your part in a firm and kind manner. If there are ways in which you can show her that you love her and care for her then by all means do so. She mentioned that you have a car so does she also not have one? If she does'nt then maybe you could get her one which will meet her needs for transport. I'm assuming she can drive. Also do keep an eye out for her extra curricular activities( read cheating) as she may be using a burner phone or clearing her phone and computer history or whatever. Most of all exercise fortitude in handling this situation as it involves your wife. Warm wishes.

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Thanks for the comments. I'll try to answer some of your questions.

 

If I may ask, do you two have children? If not, is it a mutual decision or a unilateral one? If it is unilateral which of you took that decision?.

 

We don't have any children. It's a mutual decision. Neither of us want kids.

 

How long did the two of you date and did her jealousies and insecurities reveal themselves at that time?

 

We did date for several years before marrying. The incident that I mentioned earlier when she was freaking out because of some fantasy I had about some celebrity happened while we were dating, and I was about to break things off with her then. Then all of a sudden she stopped picking fights with me about it and things went back to normal. By the time we got married she hadn't displayed any signs of jealousy for three years or so.

 

What kind of relationship did your wife have with her parents and siblings? Was it happy and healthy or was there a lot of unhappiness/bickering in the home while she was growing up? Was there any infidelity involving her parents?

 

She had, and still has, a difficult relationship with her parents and her siblings. She was physically abused as a child by her father, and she doesn't get along with her siblings. Her father has had affairs, and even has a child with another woman. Her parents remain married even after this.

 

What is your sex life like? Is it below average and unsatisfactory, just average or is it off the charts? Who between the two of you has a higher sex drive and does the other partner cooperate in fulfilling the which sex drive partner's desires? I ask because if there are major problems in your sex life stemming from her side then she may have been sexually abused as a child.

 

Our sex life if unsatisfactory. I'm the one with the higher sex drive. When we do have sex, sometimes it's good, sometimes it seems like she loses interest halfways through.

 

She's never mentioned about any type of sexual abuse, and she does tend to tell me about everything that her family has done to her and how much she's hurting. I did ask her once several years ago if someone ever abused her sexually, and she said no. Of course this doesn't mean that it never happened, and I have thought about it from time to time when she goes on some jealous rant. I just have no idea if it ever happened, and I don't feel it's right to press her on it either just because of some hunch.

 

She mentioned that you have a car so does she also not have one? If she does'nt then maybe you could get her one which will meet her needs for transport. I'm assuming she can drive.

 

She does not have a car, and the reason for this is that we don't need two cars. We live right in the center of the town, and both her store and my current office is located about 150 meters from where we live, so we walk to work. We probably use the car less than once a week. Also, she doesn't have a valid driver's license in the country where we live. I once suggested to her that perhaps she should get a valid license her as well, but she got upset that I even asked. She kind of likes that I have to send her if she ever needs to go somewhere outside of the city center.

 

You mention she had mental health issues in the past. Is it possible this is the start of that again? If so, how would she handle it if you pointed that out to her in a gentle way?

 

Also, and this may sound out of left field, but is it possible she's pregnant and her hormones are ramping up?

 

Her mental health seems to go in cycles. She'll be extremely difficult to deal with in periods of a few months, but then mellow out and be good for a few years. This is probably the beginning of a difficult period.

 

A few days ago after she had one of her outbursts she did apologize and say that she didn't want to hurt me, it's just that her emotions wash over her like a tidal wave, and she has no way of controlling them. She is aware of what she's doing, it's just that when it happens she can't stop it.

 

I'd like her to get some professional help, but she's not interested.

 

I'll also keep in mind that she might have some type of affair going on. I'm certain that she doesn't have a physical affair, but certainly something might be going on behind my back online that I don't know about. I'll keep my eyes open.

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Hi northwind, thank you for your response to my questions. With your clarifications I have to say that your wife is the victim of a deep neurosis and she is very definitely in need of some psychiatric treatment. Apparently she suffers from a form of cyclic disorder which burgeons periodically during an active phase and then subsides and becomes dormant. This cyclic pattern seems to repeat every few years. You mentioned that she does not have a valid driving licence in the country where you live. Is this country European, West Asian, Far East Asian or African? Depending on where you live are there good psychiatric facilities available locally or would you have to travel to access them? If you are really interested in helping her rather than wringing your hands helplessly, I think you have a lot of hard effort ahead of you. Her problems are not going to be solved by ignoring them. Also, she gave you a clear cut warning about possible problems in her personality while you were dating when she became paranoid about your fantasy celebrity fixation. Really speaking you cannot blame her. You still chose to marry her so now you are responsible for helping her heal. You have a lot on your plate but if you keep nibbling at it it will eventually be cleaned up. The ball is in your court. Warm wishes.

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