White lies, when do they go too far? When is enough enough? :/

[BrazenCrow]

It isn't huge stuff, and it isn't malicious, but it's so annoying and erodes my trust in him. He always says he doesn't and won't lie to me, ever. And I try to believe him. But I've caught him before and noticed how frequent it was with his mother when we first began hanging out. But I haven't noticed a lie to me in around 8-10 months? Something like that. Though I did catch him lie to a co-worker about 3 months ago about his whereabouts.

 

But I caught him today. It was stupid, I needed to pay for a car repair and my dog jumped out of the car too. He said "no, just leave him here" and I said "why? We'll be out in a second anyways" and he said "dogs aren't allowed, I asked them"

 

That was all it took. I do dogs, he doesn't. He'd never of cared enough to of asked when he dropped the car off.

 

I challenged him. He dodged it but then relented, saying it was the easiest way to get me to leave the dog. I was mad, and wondered why he wouldn't just ask me, like a normal adult. He brushed it off and tried to make it about my issues, saying he was sorry and he wouldn't do it again, please don't turn this into a discussion, ect. Acting like I was overreacting and should just ignore/forget his lie.

 

I kinda ignored him while we were paying it, and I shrugged off his goodbye kiss, but did wish him a good day at work. He turned away saying 'you should just go now that you're mad at me', which is basically his passive aggressive way of saying he's done, as if he runs away I won't have the opportunity to "lecture" him as he calls it.

 

Adult conversations are hard with him. We've lived together for around a year and are in our mid twenties. And we have gone over lying before, he knows how repellant it is for me, and he'll promise the moon and back that he has turned a new leaf. He's said it like three times now though, so yeah.

 

 

What say you LS? Am I overreacting?

[Poutrew]

Wow, you are a harsh task master. Absolutely NO lies, even minor ones? I think it is a bit much. In my younger years, I would explain to a girlfriend that if she asked the wrong question, I might lie to her, and it would be for her own good. I worked for the government and she didn't have the clearance to be told anything. I'm older now, but there are still things I can't ever talk about. So yeah, I'd lie - and over the years I've learned how to tell some real whoppers...

[angel.eyes]

Trust is the foundation on which healthy relationships are built. Without trust, there really isn't a relationship.

 

You know your guy lies chronically about EVERYTHING to EVERYONE. If lying is a deal breaker, you've learned enough here. Time to move on.

 

If it isn't, then understand that this is his basic character flaw. Accept that you can't trust anything he says without double checking independently. Adjust accordingly..

[anika99]

Wow, you are a harsh task master. Absolutely NO lies, even minor ones? I think it is a bit much. In my younger years, I would explain to a girlfriend that if she asked the wrong question, I might lie to her, and it would be for her own good. I worked for the government and she didn't have the clearance to be told anything. I'm older now, but there are still things I can't ever talk about. So yeah, I'd lie - and over the years I've learned how to tell some real whoppers...

 

Huh? Your gf would question you about work and rather than just tell her that it was confidential information you would lie to her? That doesn't sound very mature.

 

Sometimes small lies can spare someone's feelings. Things like " oh that haircut isn't so bad, it's kind of cute" might be a lie that is told to protect someone's feelings. It might be wrong to lie about even something like that but it's not a manipulative or malicious lie. In the OPs case her partner lied in order to impose his will and get his own way and that is definitely wrong. I would definitely have a problem with someone who habitually tells lies, even if there small lies because mature adults do not need to lie to deal with life and relationships. I don't think the OP overreacted since this has been an ongoing problem and her partner knows how she feels about it.

[basil67]

In the situation where he lied about the dog, it was because he didn't want to be the 'bad guy'. Would this be fair to say about his other lies?

[Arieswoman]

BrazenCrow,

What jumps out at me here is this;

 

Adult conversations are hard with him

 

I have found that when some people lie they do it because they haven't grown up and haven't learned to deal with either giving negative feedback or conflict.

 

My exH lied to me once about something important and I went ballistic. I let it go but told him if he ever lied again we were over.

And guess what? I never caught him out in a lie again.

 

After we divorced I found out that the whole marriage was just full of his lies. His biggest lies came when he was cheating on me.

 

Saying he couldn't get tickets for X when he didn't want to go.

Telling colleagues I wasn't interested in doing XYZ when it was him that didn't want to socialise.

Saying he couldn't get time off work to do XYZ when he never asked.

Saying the bank made a mistake when it was him who did it wrong.

 

etc etc etc.

 

IMO living with a liar is trying to knit fog and it can really screw you up. Only you can decide how to play this but for the sake of your own psychological well-being I would ditch th guy and find someone who's mature enough to have a grown-up conversation.

 

Sorry.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Personally, even white lies are deal breakers. Behind white lies, there are many more that you just haven't caught him out on. It's one of the character flaws that I am unwilling to deal with.

 

People that are capable minor deceit are capable of a major deceit as well.

[road]

Dump him for your need for the truth and him not being able to meet

your need for truth will never be on the same level.

[NTV]

You're not wrong about White Lies of that volume being a red flag. but I should ask it sounds like you're coming across to him almost like a parent would to a kid.... Which would seem to be a matter of just educating him but this is in the matter of educating him is it?

[Jj66]

I broke up with a woman after noticing how easily lies flowed from her mouth when dealing with her ex husband over child issues. They weren't malicious. Generally they were told to make things smoother for her (avoid conflict) but occasionally for no reason at all. It's almost like her default choice was to lie.

 

After seeing that lying was her native tongue, I bailed. I didn't have to be a fortune teller to see me on the receiving end of her lies someday.

[BaileyB]

I find it somewhat amusing that your guy lies about never lying to you again.

 

But seriously, the thing that also jumped out to me was your statement that "adult conversations with him are hard." A little white lie here or there is nothing to worry too much about, but when you are constantly catching him lying such that you don't ever trust that he's telling you the truth, that would not be cool with me. And, he should definitely be able to have an adult conversation with you about a difficult topic without lying and shifting the blame back to you. This guy has got some communication difficulties, lying is his preferred way to avoid conflict.

[BrazenCrow]

Poutrew, it's called honesty lol. I give it, and I expect to get it back. Also your situation is far different, as you informed your gfs, and they agreed via still dating you. What my guy is doing is telling me one thing and doing another. You can live your life however you want, long as you inform people of your ways.

 

angel.eyes, "Accept that you can't trust anything he says without double checking independently. Adjust accordingly." really hits hard, because I do believe that, but it hurts to admit it. I told him I want him to try out a therapist, we'll see how that goes.

 

basil67, yes, yes it would. I don't feel like he wants to hurt me. I just think his past experiences have taught him that lying can make life easier.

 

Arieswoman, you drive a hard bargain, but I can see exactly why you do. Your situation is exactly what I'm terrified of, I don't want to engineer a more crafty lier. I'm really hoping that because I've caught this early, while he still (appears) to really, really care, that perhaps it can be fixed. He's looking into therapy. I'm really hoping he just hasn't seen the seriousness of the situation yet. I know I sound hopeless, but I really do want to try one last ditch effort. But I will be on my toes. I don't want to copy your mistakes.

 

Eternal Sunshine, sometimes I wish I could be as strong as you. I can't leave, not yet, and I'm not sure if that makes me stupid or not.

 

road, harsh but true. I have some very serious thinking to do.

 

NTV, he does know what I expect, and he knows the boundaries of our relationship. He's voiding them. I try not to parent him, in the beginning it was a bit more -my field was new to him, so there was a lot of teaching going on- but it isn't much at all now.

 

Jj66, I'm so glad you got out when you did. She sounds completely wretched, running was basically your only option with someone like that. He isn't to the point where his default is lying yet, but I refuse to let it come to that. :/

 

BaileyB, I also find it slightly amusing, but in a rather sad way. I haven't caught him in 8-10 ish months. But of course, not having caught doesn't mean doesn't do, you know? And that's my problem. I can't trust that I can trust him, which is so hard for me. I'm so damn honest. I don't even /think/ to question him. Or, at least, I didn't in the beginning.

Edited March 7, 2017 by BrazenCrow

[Eternal Sunshine]

I broke up with a woman after noticing how easily lies flowed from her mouth when dealing with her ex husband over child issues. They weren't malicious. Generally they were told to make things smoother for her (avoid conflict) but occasionally for no reason at all. It's almost like her default choice was to lie.

 

After seeing that lying was her native tongue, I bailed. I didn't have to be a fortune teller to see me on the receiving end of her lies someday.

 

This happened to me too with the last guy I broke up with!

 

His ex w was causing issues when she knew he was about to see me (and couldn't have the kids), so he would make up stuff to make her think he is doing something else. Fair enough right? I mean it was done to avoid conflict and to have smoother time with me. In fact, I benefited from the lies in that instance.

 

However, when I heard the elaborate stories he told her about what his plans were (they contained so much detail even though they were 100% lies ), I felt just a little sick. Coupled with a few lies he already told me, I didn't need to guess what my future with him will be like.

 

All he really needed to say is "I can't today, I have plans." Not her business. End of story.

[angel.eyes]

angel.eyes, "Accept that you can't trust anything he says without double checking independently. Adjust accordingly." really hits hard, because I do believe that, but it hurts to admit it. I told him I want him to try out a therapist, we'll see how that goes.

The point of dating is to find someone compatible. If dating someone requires therapy, it's time to throw in the towel. You aren't compatible while they're on their best behavior! Imagine what it will be like when you're tied together (marriage, kids, etc.), they know you aren't going anywhere, and they get complacent?

 

Why are you taking on projects? Has this been a pattern for you? If this guy needs therapy to behave like an acceptable relationship partner, call it a day and exit stage left!