What exactly constitutes an EA?

[bigman1]

I've been reading lots of forums and I notice many claim that their spouse is having an EA, or had a revenge EA. As I pondered these things, I realized that I think that the old adage, "If you have a hammer then ever problem is a nail". What I mean is that perhaps once infidelity creeps in, suddenly every thing involving opposite sex relationships is being labeled an EA.

 

I have female friends. I have eaten lunch and even dinner with them without my wife present. I speak on the phone to them. I know snippets of their personal lives. I am very fond of them. That having been said, I have never said "I love you" to them. I don't keep secrets with them or treat them as confidants. I am not attracted to them in "that way". They are, for want of a better description, on par with female cousins.

 

I have never not disclosed my interactions with them, which is not to say that I inform my wife of every time we speak. I have my phone locked, but my wife has the pass code and she has unfettered access to my phone. I let my wife use my computer and she has access to all of my emails. I know her passwords, too. I don't leave the room if I talk to the female friends. I generally don't take their phone calls in the evening as that is family time, unless they call me back to back, in which case I figure it must be something that cannot wait...and it usually is. I only leave if my wife says I am disturbing her.

 

My wife had male study partners. I met them all. I had no issues with them. My wife can have male friends. I am not at all threatened. Never have been.

We are honest with each other to a fault. If I have ever run into a female friend or colleague and had lunch, I always tell my wife.

 

My point with all of my personal history is that I have seen far less than this labeled as an EA. Is there some GENERALLY recognized definition or do people just throw that out there when they are not comfortable with someones relationship, are too insecure, too possessive, or being reactionary because of their own infidelity? Maybe it is the intent involved, but how does one objectively judge that? Lastly, I am not confessing to an EA, It's just a question.

[carhill]

You and your spouse decide your marital boundaries. No other opinion should matter. It's your partnership. If one or the other partner abrogates the marital boundaries as agreed upon, there's your sign.

[bigman1]

I like your response, but that sort of begs the question. A PA has a GENERALLY agreed upon definition. Whether one considers it "cheating" in the PA sense can vary among couples. Couples in open marriages don't consider certain physical acts cheating. (AND I AM NOT TURNING THIS INTO AN OPEN MARRIAGE THREAD)

 

Still, I know men who don't want their wife to talk to another man. I view that as controlling. That is why I wondered if there was a "generally" agreed upon response.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Lobe]

EA is in the eyes of the beholders. There's a saying that if you wouldn't want your spouse finding out, you probably shouldn't be doing it. For some, the boundary is crossed by looking at porn and calling the barista, "Sunshine." For others in an open or polyamourous relationship, the definition of "cheating" would change entirely, based on the understanding those individuals have of their situation.

 

I don't even think an EA is always a 2-way street - I have read lots of people talk about being in utter states of limerence over someone who is completely clueless that the admirer is attracted to them.

 

If you wouldn't want your partner knowing about it, that's your first clue that you are doing something that would hurt them. That should be your first clue that boundaries are likely to be crossed.

 

*edited to add: This includes those partners who are exceptionally jealous - if you have to hide friendships because your SO is going to freak out no matter what, the answer isn't "hiding" it's leaving the relationship, above board, and without strings attached.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Lobe

[JLeaks3]

It's the element of secrecy that would make any relationship outside of a marriage or committed relationship inappropriate. And often times, I feel that secrecy is fueled by attraction TO the other person, which is different that finding someone attractive. Also, if at any time the friendship takes priority over the primary relationship, it has crossed boundaries.

[carhill]

If a man or a woman expresses limits on their spouses interaction with others, that's their expression. Their spouse can agree or disagree. If no compromise can be reached, they have an irreconcilable difference. For some, such differences end the partnership; for others, they accept the differences and continue. Either is a choice, as is reconciling differences.

 

One test I use with MW's is will they exhibit the behavior in front of their spouse and with the spouse's approval. For some, yeah they will and the spouse approves, or doesn't disapprove. Hence that behavior works for them. Another spouse could be completely different. I tend to watch for differences in behavior, meaning they act and speak one way around their spouse and differently when not around. Based on long life experience, I find that dichotomy to be a canary to watch.

[TrustedthenBusted]

My definition is " If you have to lie about it, omit details about it, or hide it in any way - it's definitely on the path to an EA."

[Mrs. John Adams]

Good discussion... I agree.. If you are talking with someone and could not or would not have the same discussion in front of your spouse... There is a boundary being crossed.

 

My husband requires nothing of me... He controls nothing... He demands nothing.

 

I set my boundaries to make him feel safe... He does the same

 

I do that because I love him not because he demands it.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

For me, I would define an EA when these "symptoms" are present:

 

1 - You get excited prior to seeing them (at work or rendezvous). The same "excited" that you felt when you had a crush on that person in your 10th grade geometry class. Even though geometry is boring, you would still get excited about going to class because he/she would be there.

 

2 - You find yourself missing that person if he/she was not in attendance (at work, a meeting, gym, community pool)

 

3 - You find yourself thinking about that person when under normal circumstances you wouldn't. You are having fantasies (sexual or non-sexual) about the other person. (Like a longing for him/her. Taking up head space)

 

4 - Hiding/Deleting communications

 

5 - Exceed acceptable boundaries on what the two of you discuss/share. You have intimate communication that should be reserved for your SO. Would you have this communication if your SO overheard it or read it?

 

1-3 is more of a crush if it is one-side. If 1-3 are reciprocated, then it is a full-on EA. Look out, sex is on the horizon. If it just a crush, then why is a married/committed person experiencing a crush?

 

Are you just friends? Depends if you heart skips a beat when you see him/her.

[JoeSmith357-1]

My definition is " If you have to lie about it, omit details about it, or hide it in any way - it's definitely on the path to an EA."

 

I would agree with this.

 

If you or the other spouse has to conceal it, lie about it, hide it and if it involves pointed conversations about how you want to **** them, then it's an EA...

 

I would even go as far as to say, if you are in daily "non-work" communications with someone of the opposite sex other than your spouse, it's probably an emotional affair. Although I would probably get some argument from people here on that point.

 

I just feel that these things happen sometimes unwillingly from the perspective of one of the cheating parties.

 

The other person lends their ear, then some more, then contact, then they are ****ing, such a slippery slope

[bigman1]

Good feedback. Thanks. It appears that EA's are, for the most part, in the eyes of the PARTICIPANT. It would appear that EA's can be one sided as the other person may not even know about it, and the feelings have crossed from crush to something else.

 

I can't agree that it is when "boundaries" are crossed. Interaction is different than intercourse. If a spouse is jealous or controlling and objects to interaction, I don't think the other spouse is engaged in an EA if they continue. They may engage in deception or conflict avoidance if they hide those interactions, but I think on the spectrum, an EA is well beyond boundary crossing.

 

Now, once the emotion is reciprocated, that is it exists in both parties, then a full blown EA starts. I guess I would say that a full blown EA is really more like a "pre-PA". This is where the oft mentioned "red flags" are being hung up and missed.

 

I guess, it all starts with one's heart. If in your heart you know that you are about to act based on improper motives, then you are about to enter into an EA.

 

This, however, brings me to a point of contention. When I hear people say that "one thing led to another" or "I don't know how it happened" or "I (we) did not mean for it to happen", when they fall into an EA or a PA, I have to call that b.s.. Infidelity started long before the act or emotion.

 

Good talk.

[JLeaks3]

Good feedback. Thanks. It appears that EA's are, for the most part, in the eyes of the PARTICIPANT. It would appear that EA's can be one sided as the other person may not even know about it, and the feelings have crossed from crush to something else.

 

I can't agree that it is when "boundaries" are crossed. Interaction is different than intercourse. If a spouse is jealous or controlling and objects to interaction, I don't think the other spouse is engaged in an EA if they continue. They may engage in deception or conflict avoidance if they hide those interactions, but I think on the spectrum, an EA is well beyond boundary crossing.

 

Now, once the emotion is reciprocated, that is it exists in both parties, then a full blown EA starts. I guess I would say that a full blown EA is really more like a "pre-PA". This is where the oft mentioned "red flags" are being hung up and missed.

 

I guess, it all starts with one's heart. If in your heart you know that you are about to act based on improper motives, then you are about to enter into an EA.

 

This, however, brings me to a point of contention. When I hear people say that "one thing led to another" or "I don't know how it happened" or "I (we) did not mean for it to happen", when they fall into an EA or a PA, I have to call that b.s.. Infidelity started long before the act or emotion.

 

Good talk.

 

And when you trace back up that slippery slope, this will be the beginning and what I mean by an inappropriate relationship taking priority over the primary. When someone would willing choose to hide interactions from their spouse in order to maintain a relationship, they are placing more value on that relationship over the feelings of their spouse. BIG RED FLAG.

[Alamo657]

Secrecy, frequency, intimacy, driving your attention away from your partner.

 

That's an EA.

[bigman1]

And when you trace back up that slippery slope, this will be the beginning and what I mean by an inappropriate relationship taking priority over the primary. When someone would willing choose to hide interactions from their spouse in order to maintain a relationship, they are placing more value on that relationship over the feelings of their spouse. BIG RED FLAG.

 

I follow where you are going, but I have to disagree. I knew someone whose husband would get extremely possessive of her time. If she went out with female friends shopping in the middle of the day maybe two to three times a month, he complained that she spent too much time with them. She had one good friend with whom she liked to talk on the phone or go to lunch with on occasion. He accused the friend of being gay and having improper motives. They both had a shared academic interest, and had written books on the topic as well as spoke to groups on the same topic. Never mind that the friend was married over 40 years with kids, grand kid, etc. She lived her life. She maintained those friendships, openly and told her husband to get over it, but he always had a remark. Did she always tell him...I don't think so. Why ruin an otherwise good relationship because one person has hangups?

 

I guess my point is, some folks are so possessive that they don't want to share their partner's time with anyone. I think that to avoid conflict, you may have to cross those boundaries.

 

I agree with Alamo657. That sums it up for me.

[JoeSmith357-1]

Secrecy, frequency, intimacy, driving your attention away from your partner.

 

That's an EA.

 

Exactly...

[JLeaks3]

I follow where you are going, but I have to disagree. I knew someone whose husband would get extremely possessive of her time. If she went out with female friends shopping in the middle of the day maybe two to three times a month, he complained that she spent too much time with them. She had one good friend with whom she liked to talk on the phone or go to lunch with on occasion. He accused the friend of being gay and having improper motives. They both had a shared academic interest, and had written books on the topic as well as spoke to groups on the same topic. Never mind that the friend was married over 40 years with kids, grand kid, etc. She lived her life. She maintained those friendships, openly and told her husband to get over it, but he always had a remark. Did she always tell him...I don't think so. Why ruin an otherwise good relationship because one person has hangups?

 

I guess my point is, some folks are so possessive that they don't want to share their partner's time with anyone. I think that to avoid conflict, you may have to cross those boundaries.

 

I agree with Alamo657. That sums it up for me.

 

Well if you look at cc_zero's thread and situation, you might not be so dismissive of same gendered friendships and a partner's "possessiveness" with his own wife's time and attention. Again, you yourself agreed that "driving one's time away from your partner" contributes to emotional affair. In my view, your friend is absolutely prioritizing her friendship over her marriage. Maybe her husband is being unreasonable, but it still begs to question, why does she continually value her friendship more than her marriage?

 

As far as your question which I bolded, for me, no relationship is placed above my marriage with my husband. So if it means I let my friendship go because he is uncomfortable with it, I will do so because I love him and respect him and will do what he needs to feel secure in our marriage. When the "one person with hang ups" is your spouse, his hang ups should be your hang ups. I have no allegiances with anyone other than my husband and vice versa. That is what it means to honor my vows and to honor and respect my husband.

[Marc878]

It sometimes comes down to which is more important the friendship or the marriage.

 

There is always a danger that a close friendship May develope into something more.

 

I've seen it many times. Most would have never thought they would or Could get that involved but feelings can develope over time.

[bigman1]

I'm not dismissive of same sex affairs, but I think that in the case of my friend, it was a case of over possessiveness. I also think that if one is being forced to chose between a friendship and a marriage then there really is something wrong.

 

I think one can honor their vows to love and respect their spouse, but what about the spouse making the unreasonable demands? Do they not owe the same to their spouse? If it comes down to a choice of the marriage or the friendship, I have to ask why is that even the choice on the table? If one spouse is consistently making the other choose that, then that is just manipulative.

 

In the end, if it is secrecy and the things stated earlier, then it is ea territory. If is simply an over possessive or insecure spouse then no EA is involved. True story: I met an elderly woman abiut 15 years ago at a banquet whose husband had died. She had no kids . She told my wife and I during conversation at the table that she never had kids because her husband didn't want to share her and she loved him so they never had any. She had few friends beyond her staff in the business she owned. I remember her saying that she regretted her choice. As she put it, "I gave him what he wanted and he up and died on me and left me alone."

 

Iguess my point is that EA's and spousal boundaries are different. Still, good talk.

[Alamo657]

or do people just throw that out there when they are not comfortable with someones relationship, are too insecure, too possessive, or being reactionary because of their own infidelity? Maybe it is the intent involved, but how does one objectively judge that?

 

Althought i do not doubt that some people will suspect their partner of an affair even when there is nothing going on, more often than not, the accusation of "insecurities" come from people who are guilty, but are not mature and responsible enough to admit it, and prefer gaslighting their partners.

 

How any times do we hear about this ? Spouse is discovered, but until material proofs are presented, he/she will deny, call you crazy and insecure, etc.

 

The accusation of insecurity is just a smokescreen to hide your own wrongdoings most of the time.

[bigman1]

You have just alluded to it what I was talking about my very firstpost. The issue is that it when marriages have been affected by infidelity I see a tendency to label things as an emotional affair not because it is but because we are viewing relationships through the prism of infidelity.

 

I think that many times the claim of someone being overly possessive or insecure are not born out of someone's desire to hide wrongdoing.

 

Insecurity and over possessiveness are real. I have also seen those who accuse their spouses of engaging in Affairs and being hyper-vigilant do so because of their own guilt at the fact that they are having an affair.

 

That is why I was curious as to the definition of an emotional affair. I think if there is a generally accepted the definition of it, then we can determine what is a healthy relationship inside of the marriage and what is a healthy relationship outside of the marriage.

[carhill]

Is the third party a friend of the marriage? Is their support of the marriage open and conspicuous and accepting of scrutiny?

 

If not, slippery slope, if not already there.

 

While certain other associations can of course be inappropriate to a marriage, it is the mating overtone, as perceived by the relevant spouse, even if not consummated, which separates the emotional affair from other inappropriate relationships. Additionally, for it to be an 'affair', the behaviors would be persistent over time. As an example, a spouse flirting with a stranger at a party and never seeing them again wouldn't be an affair but certainly could be inappropriate depending on the boundaries of the marriage. In some marriages, such behaviors could be appropriate and even encouraged.

 

When dealing with MW's I tend to look to their spouse as the arbiter of appropriateness. They set the boundaries. If the friendship or association isn't productive within those boundaries, it ends, irrespective of my opinion of them. I might think they're overly possessive but that opinion is irrelevant to their marriage. Their opinion controls. Lots of humans, billions in fact, in this world. No sense in drilling a dry hole when other locations abound. Plenty of oil out there.

[elaine567]

Emotional affair - The term often describes a bond between two people that mimics the closeness and emotional intimacy of a romantic relationship while never being physically consummated. An emotional affair is sometimes referred to as an affair of the heart.

There have to be some "feelings" involved somewhere IMO, feelings and intimacy that should be reserved for the core relationship.

[carhill]

That's a good point and, if willing to self-reflect, one can examine in themselves. However, since we can't read minds, we have no way of knowing, for sure, if anyone we interact with, or view or experience interacting, really has feelings or not, or feels anything as far as that goes. We simply don't have the capacity nor insight.

 

Hence, over the decades, regardless of reality as I might perceive it, MW's I've interacted with have often dismissed their actions or words as "I didn't mean it that way" or "you must've misunderstood", in addition to the general response that anything other than sex isn't an affair. For them, that might be true. For their spouses, IDK, can't read their minds. A few seemed pretty incensed about the whole deal because, well, how can anyone prove they didn't have sex with that woman.

[dichotomy]

It can be complicated.

 

I think sometimes emotions or intent can exist or be more heavily waited to another side. I have read or heard stories of one person being told "You know he/she has a crush on you" "Oh I know but its okay - he/she is just a friend to me". I think sometimes these things start as someone kind of sort of basking in the interest of another - even if that spouse does not have feelings like the other does for them They feel its okay because (at the time) they don't share that interest that way... until they do.

 

The topic of "sharing" or confiding in another about personal details of a marriage/spouse can be a sign of an EA in the context of a face to face relationship. Alot of EA or later PA's start of with expressing issues or problems in a marriage/spouse to a person of the other sex.

[Alltohim]

Even when our opposite sex friendships are just that 'friendships' we need

be sure to make sure our spouse realizes we still love them, but sometimes we have to make space with friends so you can re-connect with

your better half. I'd suggest take some time off with friends and concentrate

on spending more time with your wife. Remember those things you and your wife enjoyed doing together, go do it again!!