What do I do?

[mintpolo]

Hi,

 

I've been married for just over a year now... We're currently living with my parents, my wife has come across the country to be here for me, which i appreciate so much.

 

We're of Indian heritage, so family is important, and showing the respect to them is important too, which my wife has done, and my parents have appreciated so much, rightly so.

 

We're given our freedom, we do whatever we want really... we can go out and come back whenever we wish, we can make our own meals, watch what we want on tv, invite friends and family that we wish...

 

I currently have my own house, and have been saying that we need to move out so that we have our own space, and don't invade my parents house and get too comfortable there, as we're not paying rent, honestly - we don't really clean up after ourselves, my mum and dad do that.

My wife states that she wants to stay to respect them, which is fair enough. My parents said they're happy with how it is, as they want to spend time with us, and they're happy we're happy...

 

 

Sounds pretty good, right? Well... it's changed a hell of a lot

 

 

My brother got married to a non-Asian a few months back, and things were going south soon as they got engaged. I must admit, his wife, isn't the most friendly person - however she's not rude or abusive. She's been an only child, so has her own way of doing things, and my brother is happy either way... My mum, whilst not happy, gets on with her as well, because we're her son's, and she wants us to be happy...

 

My wife has now taken this as taking sides, and she's not happy.It got to the point where she's asked me to shout at my brother and his wife, to make her feel better. But because I love my wife so much, I have done - I've not had contact with my brother for a month now, and with Christmas coming up, it's a bit sad really...

It moved on from there, as the weekend just gone, my wife has then decided that my parents need to be put in their place, for the abuse they've given her, and broken her trust. And that there shouldn't be any preferential treatment between us and them, and between my wife and I.

My parents, took it the best they could, they've said all they want for is us to be happy, and they'll do whatever it takes.

 

So, I've done this, even some of the things I said, I know they didn't deserve, but I did it anyway. I explained how we're as one, and she's my wife, and treat us two equally too. My parent's haven't spoken to me since that day, which is expected.

 

I understand that my mum is sarcastic a lot, but that's what has made me - me. I am sarcastic, with a strange sense of humour, which my wife loves. But she's not insulting or rude.

 

I can't help but think that I've lost my relationship with my brother, and in part with my parents as they're probably suffering, for something that they haven't really done wrong in... But fair enough, I'm supporting my wife here, and that's my future.

 

I've handed the notice into the tenants in my house, and we will be moving in March 2016. In hope that this will create some space, which means everyone will be able to breathe, and be relaxed...

 

However, the reason I've joined and even found this site, is because my wife is now saying that when we have kids, my parent's won't be allowed to see them, as they don't deserve to.

I have noticed that my mother in law, doesn't like my parents very much, and has also drilled this into my wife's mind as well. Even stating that as they're North UK, and we're near London and won't see them every day, my parent's don't deserve to either.

 

To me this is extremely stupid, and she knows that she is welcome any time, especially when we have our own place. Even though she's popped down for long weekends or weeks, as a holiday and used my parent's place as a hotel.

 

I've never uttered a bad word to, or even about her brothers or parents, yet it seems that it's totally acceptable for her to do that about and in some cases, to mine. Yet they rise above it, accept it for what it is, and try to make her feel better by listening to what she is saying, and acting on it.

 

 

Is my wife really wrong? or is this normal? Because it sure as hell doesn't feel as if it should be normal to me... But soon as I even say "that's not right" or "that's out of line" or even "that's not fair", I'm given abuse on how **** my parents are - yet the house I have, and am currently renting out, is paid for by my parents?

 

I'm not even sure what to do any more, but I honestly feel sad and depressed that she can't see what's happening to me through all of this as well. She even tells me that I don't put my parents straight properly, and that I need to scream and break things for them to realise.

 

I've tried to rise above it the best I can, and show her my love and support in anything she needs, but I think I could be going the wrong way, and maybe need to set her straight? But any time I come close to setting her straight, she threatens to leave, which I honestly couldn't bear.

[Downtown]

MintPolo, you are describing a young woman who is so super-sensitive that she mistakenly believes your parents show "preferential treatment" between you and her -- and between the two of you and your brother and his wife. You indicate that, although this preferential treatment does not exist, she nonetheless has decided your parents "need to be put in their place." Apparently, she has also decided the same treatment should be given to your brother and his W too. The result of your standing up for your W, you say, is that you are no longer speaking to your own brother or to your parents.

 

On top of all that mess, your W's mother is egging her on by putting destructive thoughts in her head. Moreover, you say your W is verbally abusive whenever you try to calmly discuss this issue with her -- and she is insisting that you "scream and break things" when talking to your parents so they will realize how wrong they are. That is, your W is insisting that you throw a temper tantrum and behave like an ungrateful, spoiled child in front of your own parents -- the very people who made sacrifices to be able to buy a house for you.

 

If this is an accurate summary of what you're experiencing, I would say that you are describing several warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Significantly, I'm not suggesting that your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of it. I mention this because the behaviors you describe -- i.e., her verbal abuse, paranoid perception of insults and favoritism that don't really occur, always being "The Victim," controlling actions (trying to isolate you from family), and temper tantrums -- are warning signs for having strong BPD traits.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if they seem applicable. If most of these red flags sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I caution that learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance. Take care, MintPolo.

[mintpolo]

Hi Downtown,

 

I appreciate the information and guidance you provided me with. I think a couple of those points relate to how she is reacting.

 

Obviously I don't want to be straight out, and tell her she needs help - but reading that has helped me realise what to look out for, and it does describe to a point of how I feel, regarding the walking on eggshells.

 

My wife did have a traumatic time with her parents when she was young, and you got the nail on the head, when she was about 3-4... Her parents, thankfully, made it through, and are deep down really good people who have supported me through my rough times without any question or doubt. However, I do feel her mother isn't helping her right now.

 

I'm now wondering how to address that situation, without being horrible or rude - because at the end of the day, I don't want to burn any bridges with anyone, I know that this isn't a perfect world, and may not happen. I don't think this is an issue of having enough courage, but more in line with doing it with respect, even if they've been rude to my own parents and haven't helped by adding fuel to the fire.

 

My wife and her mother are in contact all the time via SMS/WhatsApp etc etc... I don't want them to stop being in communication either, because she's far away from home as it is, and I've already felt the no communication feeling myself, and it's not great.

 

Do I suggest to my MIL, that I've noticed the messages that she is sending my wife, isn't really helping - even though her intentions are good, as my wife is taking this as gospel and then reacting towards it, and using what MIL is saying as examples of why and how she is right, and how everyone else is in the wrong?

 

Considering my wife has asked my parents to butt-out, well, asked me to tell them to... Am I right in being as blunt? As end of the day, it's the relationship between the two of us which is suffering the most, when in reality it's caused by external sources (on both sides of the family, regardless if I believe my parents are still in the wrong or not).

 

If I'm to bring up BDP, how is this done without being an utter bastard?

[sandylee1]

Hi

 

Tell your wife that you want to move out and set up your home with her. I understand the cultural issues.. but you both won't grow up and get a grip on independent living until you live alone and have full responsibility for your home and finances.

 

That should put a stop to all this drama which is childish.

Don't let her ruin your friendship with your brother. Just say NO to her silly demands. Her immature behaviour shows she has no clue about marriage. Be firm and don't get pushed around by her.

[Downtown]

I think a couple of those points relate to how she is reacting.

MintPolo, if only "a couple" of the 18 BPD warning signs describe her behavior, we should stop discussing BPD. A person having strong BPD traits almost certainly would be exhibiting most of those red flags, i.e., at least 9 of them.

 

I know that this isn't a perfect world.

If your W were to have strong BPD traits, the problem would not be her lack of "perfection" but, rather, her having the emotional development of a four year old. When a woman's emotional skills are frozen at that level, a husband/wife relationship with her is impossible. Instead, you have a parent/child relationship.

 

Do I suggest to my MIL, that I've noticed the messages that she is sending my wife, isn't really helping - even though her intentions are good, as my wife is taking this as gospel and then reacting towards it, and using what MIL is saying as examples of why and how she is right, and how everyone else is in the wrong?

If your W really does have strong BPD traits, her perceptions of your intentions and motivations will be distorted by her intense feelings. Indeed, those feelings will be so intense and uncontrolled that she will be convinced they MUST be right. Hence, it wouldn't really matter whether her mother validates the distorted feelings or not. Absent validation from her mother, she would simply conclude that those feelings are valid anyway. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion."

 

Significantly, we all experiences these thought distortions every time we experience intense feelings, e.g., strong anger or infatuation. This is why, by the time we are in high school, we already know that our judgement goes out the window whenever we are very angry or very infatuated. And this is why, when angry, we try to keep our mouths shut and, when infatuated, we try to wait two years before buying the ring. Well, BPDers are like that too -- only, with them, it happens far more frequently and intensely because they are unable to regulate their own emotions.

 

Considering my wife has asked my parents to butt-out, well, asked me to tell them to... Am I right in being as blunt?

Certainly, you have a right to stand up for yourself and ask them to please refrain from interfering. I doubt, however, that it would stop any parent from giving advice to their own child. Moreover, if your W is a mature adult, she should be making her own decisions anyway.

 

As end of the day, it's the relationship between the two of us which is suffering the most, when in reality it's caused by external sources (on both sides of the family, regardless if I believe my parents are still in the wrong or not).

If your W were a BPDer, you would be living with a woman having the emotional skills of a four year old. Yet, because you believe your problems are essentially "caused by external sources," you are not describing warning signs for BPD.

 

I'm now wondering how to address that situation, without being horrible or rude?

It sounds to me like you've concluded that you are NOT dealing with a strong pattern of BPD warning signs. Yet, if you are still in doubt about that, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with.

 

Significantly, if your W were to have full-blown BPD and see her own psychologist about it, it is unlikely he would tell her (much less tell you) the name of her disorder. He would be ethically bound to protect her best interests and therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer the name of her disorder because it usually is not in her best interests to be told. If you ever decide that you are seeing most BPD warning signs, I would be glad to discuss further why that information is routinely withheld from high-functioning BPDers and their spouses.

 

If I'm to bring up BDP, how is this done without being an utter bastard?

You don't bring it up to her. Instead, you simply encourage her to see a psychologist and let him decide what to tell her. As I noted above, it is unlikely he will mention it by name even if she has full-blown BPD. Your last post, however, seems to indicate BPD traits are off-topic in this thread because you've seen only a few of the red flags. If I'm mistaken about this, it would be helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 warning signs strongly apply to your W's behavior.

[mintpolo]

Thanks, I understand moving out will help - hence why I've put in notice for my tenants.

 

I'm just hoping that when we move out, and with time, my wife will change her mind regarding our future children (who aren't even in the oven yet).

 

I'm not exactly weak minded, but I find it hard to confront her and tell her to shut up and get on with it, we've got a future of our own to make and think of, rather than petty things - as I can't bear to sit through another 2-3 hour session of her reasoning out how awful my family are, and why aren't they as good as hers...

[mintpolo]

it would be helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 warning signs strongly apply to your W's behavior.

 

- Sometimes #1, she'll say she may have initially thought wrong of this person - see them in a good light, then after some time, quickly to back to her initial thought

- #2 a lot, "you never stick up for me", "you never tell your mum how it is"...

- #3, doesn't like me talking to my brother/parents, or even mentioning them, even if i'm recalling a memory of something funny

- #5, as above, I have to be careful who I mention, or even who I talk about in case it contains these people (my family)

- #11, loves shopping, but i think this is just being female ! it's not over the top or excessive

- #18, makes up facts when she's really upset, then states what she's saying is right, and that I can't argue with it

[lucy_in_disguise]

Oh boy... i feel so bad for you. Let me get this straight, everything was going great and everyone was getting along, when your brother decided to marry outside your culture. Your parents accepted this but for some reason your wife cannot, and is demanding that everyone come around to her POV ... or else? Is that correct?

 

Im not sure if theres other issues at play - the tension of everyone living together or other more substantial problems- but based on my interpretation of your story, I think your parents have been very sweet to both of you and your wife is acting like a complete btich. Sorry for the harsh words, but IMO her behaivior is completely unreasonable. Family is so important and it sounds like you lucked out with parents who are supportive and a brother you are close to. I know you are married now and trying to support your wife but nothing good could come from the havoc shes causing in your relationships. Im not sure how you support a person who is hell-bent on alienating your family for no good reason. (A good reason in my book would be physical or sexual abuse, not "difficult personalities" or any of the petty drama youre describing.)

 

I dont know about BPD, but your wife sounds very jealous, vengeful, and spoiled. Did she display any of these traits while you were dating, or is this behaivior coming as a surprise? What are some of her redeeming characteristics, and why did you marry her? Honestly, if she is not able/ willing to work on her issues and recognize the importance of maintaining a good relationship with your family, I would reconsider the marriage. You are already having serous issues that she does not seem willing to discuss/ offer any compromise on. I can only imagine what a nightmare it will be to deal with her when you have children and there is more at stake.

 

So, if i were you, i would:

1. Move out to get more breathing room

2. Have a serious discussuon about family and their roles in your life

3. Have a serous discussion about her jealousy issues and ability to compromise and ask her to go to therapy to learn how to communicate like an adult

4. In the meantime, fix your relationships with your parents and brother. Your wife does not get to dictate these relationships by throwing a tantrum, and you should make that clear

 

If she is not amenable to the above, i woild divorce before there are additional complications, like children.

[Cherryz]

Really this all sounds like a luxury problem.

While bombs are falling in other country's and people having no family or place to go.

 

Dont know your culture well. But i think you should ask yourself if certain things are healthy or working?

 

And why scream at your brother because others told you so? You need to man up instead to let people drag you here and there when they want some backup of you.

 

She is your wife but i do read some things that makes me think she have bad attitude and immature, spoiled,manipulative.

Before you even get one baby work on this and get therapy at least for the communication between you and this woman yours.

 

Your brother is your blood. With or without your wife you need to meet with him and

make it right with him! Apologize for your part and talk it out.

The 2 of you together. Hugged out. Dont let any one break your bound with your brother. Specially if nothing horrible have happen.

And why is your parents paying everything for you. Even thou you may say its culture, i think you moving out and start paying your stuff yourself will help you man up and stand on your own feet.

Once you married you leave and cleave with your wife. So

thats means no more hanging on parents money and being babysit.

Or there need to be really financial problems that you really have no place to stay.

And you need to have a clear conversation with your wife. About respecting each others family!

 

And how you say all loved each other but now your wife say how horrible your parents are? So it was all fake before your brother got married?. I knew the first part of your story was to sugar coated. lol

[anika99]

First off all we don't have near enough information to know if your wife has a personality disorder. Downtown is on some sort of mission here to alert people to BPD. I don't know why and diagnosing your wife with a mental illness has nothing to do with fixing your immediate situation.

 

I couldn't imagine yelling at anyone I love just because my spouse demanded it. It sounds to me like your parents have done everything they could to make your life and your wife's life easy and uncomplicated, including free accomadations and free maid services, and now your wife is demanding that you yell at your brother and your parents and you are playing along? Talk about spoiled and ungrateful!! I don't blame your parents one bit for not speaking to you.

 

You don't seem to understand what it means to be united with your spouse. It means that you make decisions together and that you defend each other if one of you is being unfairly attacked. It doesn't mean that you abuse people or hurt people just because your spouse says you that's what they want you to do. Perhaps there is more to this story that you are not telling us. Why does your wife feel like your parents have abused her or broken her trust? Is it simply because they have accepted your brothers wife and get along with her? If that's the case then your wife needs to get over her spoiled self absorbed self and accept that she can't control other people.

 

You better think long and hard about how you are treating your family. You may be doing irreparable damage that there is no coming back from.

[Downtown]

- Sometimes #1, she'll say she may have initially thought wrong of this person - see them in a good light, then after some time, quickly to back to her initial thought

- #2 a lot, "you never stick up for me", "you never tell your mum how it is"...

- #3, doesn't like me talking to my brother/parents, or even mentioning them, even if i'm recalling a memory of something funny

- #5, as above, I have to be careful who I mention, or even who I talk about in case it contains these people (my family)

- #11, loves shopping, but i think this is just being female ! it's not over the top or excessive

- #18, makes up facts when she's really upset, then states what she's saying is right, and that I can't argue with it

MintPolo, as I said in my second post above, you are not describing a strong pattern of BPD warning signs. Indeed, several of the key features (e.g., strong fear of abandonment, mirroring of other person's personality, and emotional instability) are missing.

[BetrayedH]

Take your balls out of your wife's purse and tell her that she's no longer driving a wedge between you and your family.

 

She might just start respecting you.

[mintpolo]

Well, I've told her that there's no messing around now. I've told her, that from now on, if I'm not shown respect, there's no way in hell that I'll let her get away with this attitude.

I've told her I know that she's taken advantage of my niceness, and it's not going to happen anymore.

I've also informed my MIL, that if she wants to add fuel the fire and attack my parents, be prepared for the consequences - MIL has apologised to me, but not to my parents, yet.

I'm also in contact with my brother, who understands women can be bitches (his words, not mine). And we've got no bad blood, and have been playing games online together without an issue.

My wife has started warming to my dad again, however will not be in the same room as my mother yet. I've told her that she has no choice, and I'll protect and stick up for her if anything is said out of line, however I will be informing her when she is out of line as well, as this is only fair.

 

 

So basically, we need to start acting like adults, and respecting people for what they've done for us, even if we like them or not, the fact that an act of kindness has been made, without us asking for it, we need to respect that. We need to know what opportunity that we have, and appreciate it. Not bitch about it behind closed doors, or act like a spoilt child.

 

 

I appreciate your help and guidance through this.