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Can you forgive someone when they show no remorse?


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I've been married to my wife for a year and a half now, before the marriage we'd have long arguments about many things, her moving in with me and my son from a previous relationship was overwhelming, she was in a transitional phase of her life and in a rough spot. I was doing everything I could to help her, including financially supporting her completely. Usually our arguments would start off when I wanted to talk with her about something I was concerned with, hoping to find a solution and a middle ground, and she would almost immediately throw up a defensive wall, then start using whatever ammunition she possibly could against me. In all honesty she's accused me of a lot of false things that no one ever has in all my experiences in relationships.

 

At the end of each argument she left me utterly confused as to why she wanted to be with me, if she truly believed all the horrible things she thought about me. Some examples are;

-that I didn't care about her and only cared about my son

-I was cheating on her because she spied on my personal messages and took ONE message wayyyy out of context

-I don't love her, I just want her for sex, because I want to have an open dialogue about our sex life sometimes

-I beat my son and am a horrible dad, because of the couple times I have spanked him and how I've raised him virtually without his mother's help

-now I am sexist because I get stressed about my career sometimes when I work at a job that pays for the majority of the bills

 

After things have cooled down from these arguments, I have always tried to look at things from her angle, trying to put context to the ugly things she says about me during them. I feel sorry for anytime I make her feel bad and I always apologize, that's how I was raised; it doesn't matter who was more "right or wrong" during an argument, when tempers flare and feelings are hurt there are no winners, and I try my best to show her that any time I've made her upset, I am truly sorry for it.

 

The problem is, she almost never admits anything is her fault. She believes she is right to accuse me of such things during arguments and feels no need to ease the pain she causes me when she acts this way. I have a hard time forgiving and moving on when it seems like pretty much every hurtful thing she has said about me, she does not seem to feel bad in the least for saying them, in fact she has told me she feels completely justified in whatever mud she slings during an argument!

 

We've gone through marriage counseling, and argue a lot less these days, but every couple months we have an argument, and things immediately take a turn for the worse. The first half of our relationship when we argued a lot more, I would be the cooler head, trying to solve the issue and admittedly, making things worse by wanting to fix things. After awhile I've gotten bitter, and now when she throws up her wall and starts flinging accusations, I flip out, and start yelling. I hate being that way, no one I've ever encountered in my life makes my blood boil like she has, I hardly ever have argued with anyone in previous relationships, I've almost felt like a doormat much of my life and after feeling that way for a long time with her, I am fed up!

 

Now that in general things are going better in our marriage, I still have trouble not feeling tense when she starts being stressed, about her job or my son, I try my best to listen. I just don't know how to move on from the lingering anger I have towards how she treated me, and even after our latest fight, she feels like every ugly thing she said was the right thing to say, even when I told her I need her help and showing some regrets for all the pain she has put me through would really help!

 

Long story short; can you forgive someone for the pain they caused you in heated arguments, if they act like they do not regret anything they did when things get heated?

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It is extremely difficult to forgive a narcissist who does no wrong in their own eyes therefore having the ability to feel almost zero remorse for their actions as they are always justifiable in their twisted up little minds. (I know, I'm d'ing one who is still trying very hard to change and doing Waaaay better).

 

You must forgive for YOURSELF, not them. If you can't then it will eat you alive. Forgiveness isn't always for the other person but to allow oneself to let go.

 

even if that means you have to forgive them over and over and over andover andoverandover again for the same Go$ D@mn things... :mad:

 

Best O'luck to ye!

CIH*

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I just get them out of my life. You are better off trying to reason with an insect than somebody like that.

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sdrawkcaB ssA

She has a problem with letting go of past issues. Now it looks like she is assuming from examples. God forbid she starts telling you what you like and dislike before you are given a chance to tell her. She is on a runaway coarse to undo everything. I wonder if she has an anxiety disorder from stress.

 

Does she have difficulty sleeping? Just a sign but there are many others.

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It is extremely difficult to forgive a narcissist who does no wrong in their own eyes therefore having the ability to feel almost zero remorse for their actions as they are always justifiable in their twisted up little minds. (I know, I'm d'ing one who is still trying very hard to change and doing Waaaay better).

 

You must forgive for YOURSELF, not them. If you can't then it will eat you alive. Forgiveness isn't always for the other person but to allow oneself to let go.

 

even if that means you have to forgive them over and over and over andover andoverandover again for the same Go$ D@mn things... :mad:

 

Best O'luck to ye!

CIH*

 

The problem is I do work on forgiving myself, I've told myself a lot of her hurtful words shouldn't lower my self esteem, but at a certain point it started getting depressing because I was telling myself that I don't care what my wife thinks of me, and that doesn't seem like a healthy place to be in a relationship either. It's hard to pick and choose what to take to heart from someone else, when so much of what they say is false.

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The problem is I do work on forgiving myself, I've told myself a lot of her hurtful words shouldn't lower my self esteem, but at a certain point it started getting depressing because I was telling myself that I don't care what my wife thinks of me, and that doesn't seem like a healthy place to be in a relationship either. It's hard to pick and choose what to take to heart from someone else, when so much of what they say is false.

 

No no nonono... you misunderstand, sorry. It is important for your own sanity and well being to forgiver HER !! (and of course yourself when you need to..*).

 

Whether she asks or not. whether she is remorseful or not. whether she could give a rats a$$ or not. Forgiving someone is freeing (even when you have to do it over and over again which totally sucks, I know...)

 

get it now? :)

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Fighting dirty is a very hard way to build a partnership. If one party is unwilling to change I am not sure how you move things forward in a healthy manner.

 

Have you tried marriage counseling? I don't know, she is constantly hitting below the belt and feels that it is justified. That is very hard and very alienating.

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No no nonono... you misunderstand, sorry. It is important for your own sanity and well being to forgiver HER !! (and of course yourself when you need to..*).

 

Whether she asks or not. whether she is remorseful or not. whether she could give a rats a$$ or not. Forgiving someone is freeing (even when you have to do it over and over again which totally sucks, I know...)

 

get it now? :)

 

Of course, but like I said, is it possible to do that when she continues to do it, and continues to act like she is completely justified when hurting me? In my experience, forgiving someone and losing that pain takes time.

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Elliotte,

You CAN forgive and you should. HOWEVER, to remain someone's door mat or punching bag, is NOT acceptable.

 

Nothing will change in your situation until YOU do. You cannot change her and she will not change unless she wants too.

 

What are you going to do about it? is the question.

 

I guarantee you this; You will take as much as you can, then you won't. That's when sh$t will happen for you.

*;)

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No no nonono... you misunderstand, sorry. It is important for your own sanity and well being to forgiver HER !! (and of course yourself when you need to..*).

 

Whether she asks or not. whether she is remorseful or not. whether she could give a rats a$$ or not. Forgiving someone is freeing (even when you have to do it over and over again which totally sucks, I know...)

 

get it now? :)

 

That doesn't work though if the other person is continuing to commit the offense and has no regret of it and has no intention to try to correct it.

 

If he forgives and excuses her abuse but she continues to mistreat him and has no remorse, feels entitled to do and has no intentions of curtailing the behavior, then he is just being a doormat, victim and enabler.

 

You stand up to bully's and not take their sht. Not forgive them.

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Fighting dirty is a very hard way to build a partnership. If one party is unwilling to change I am not sure how you move things forward in a healthy manner.

 

Have you tried marriage counseling? I don't know, she is constantly hitting below the belt and feels that it is justified. That is very hard and very alienating.

 

Her and I have vastly improved our relationship after spending quite a few months in marriage counseling. But even when I brought that up during counseling, she deflected, saying that the pain I feel for what she has said is more my own perception than anything she is responsible for. She repeated that sentiment over this weekend after we had an argument Friday night. At this point I feel like giving up on bringing it up, she seems to get more resistant to admitting fault when I say she hurt me and recognizing that she pushes my buttons. It has been super rare that she admits any sort of flaws in her behavior.

 

She has told me the main person she had fights with was her older sister, she considers herself smarter than her sister and that she was always right in their arguments. It's hard not to feel like she thinks the same of me.

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That doesn't work though if the other person is continuing to commit the offense and has no regret of it and has no intention to try to correct it.

 

If he forgives and excuses her abuse but she continues to mistreat him and has no remorse, feels entitled to do and has no intentions of curtailing the behavior, then he is just being a doormat, victim and enabler.

 

You stand up to bully's and not take their sht. Not forgive them.

 

I forgive him Old Shirt. I'm D'ing him but I have always forgiven him. I just needed to decide I was through being a verbal punching bag to someone who thought he was... already been over this but yeah, I forgave him and still do.

 

I'd be nuts by now if I held onto all that anger and resentment. (don't you dare tease me and say I'm nuts Old Shirt!! LOL*) ;)

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Elliotte,

You CAN forgive and you should. HOWEVER, to remain someone's door mat or punching bag, is NOT acceptable.

 

Nothing will change in your situation until YOU do. You cannot change her and she will not change unless she wants too.

 

What are you going to do about it? is the question.

 

I guarantee you this; You will take as much as you can, then you won't. That's when sh$t will happen for you.

*;)

 

Like I said, I did change, I used to try to work things out with her calmly while she acted this way, then I reached a point where I didn't give a F*CK anymore and starting either walking away from her, or getting really angry and yelling at her. At this point I am thinking of divorce, or going back to counseling.

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Of course, but like I said, is it possible to do that when she continues to do it, and continues to act like she is completely justified when hurting me?

 

No it's not and nor should you.

 

Quite frankly she simply sounds like a bitch and a bully that has gone through like getting her way by being so much of a noxious bitch that people either give her what she wants or just says out of her way.

 

I learned in grade school the only way to deal with a bully is too make them pay to high of a price to mess with you so that they move on and mess with someone else.

 

She hasn't paid a price for her bad behavior. She treats you like crap then she gets het way and then you apologize and try to make amends with her. She has all the power. That is what a tyrant is.

 

The only way to deal with a tyrant is to overpower and overthrow them. You cannot appease them. They will only take more next time.

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whichwayisup
Her and I have vastly improved our relationship after spending quite a few months in marriage counseling. But even when I brought that up during counseling, she deflected, saying that the pain I feel for what she has said is more my own perception than anything she is responsible for. She repeated that sentiment over this weekend after we had an argument Friday night. At this point I feel like giving up on bringing it up, she seems to get more resistant to admitting fault when I say she hurt me and recognizing that she pushes my buttons. It has been super rare that she admits any sort of flaws in her behavior.

 

She has told me the main person she had fights with was her older sister, she considers herself smarter than her sister and that she was always right in their arguments. It's hard not to feel like she thinks the same of me.

 

Your wife has a lot of emotional baggage and this really struck a chord with me, the bolded. She likes to be right and won't admit her faults, probably won't apologize nor admit when she's wrong.

 

before the marriage we'd have long arguments about many things, her moving in with me and my son from a previous relationship was overwhelming, she was in a transitional phase of her life and in a rough spot. I was doing everything I could to help her, including financially supporting her completely.

 

She wasn't on her own (being alone and learning to be self sufficient) and sh relied on you for way too much in a short period of time.

 

It's like she doesn't respect you and has anger/built up resentments (that have nothing to do with you, it's about her and her baggage).

 

She needs counseling on her own to figure out and sort out her stuff.

 

You two have an unhealthy dynamic when communicating, she seems to bring out your blood boiling moments and she just flips out over anything and gets passive/rude.

 

Continue with marriage counseling and hopefully together you two can work through this and have stronger marriage. If the love is there and you (both) feel it's worth fighting for and trying your best, work on things. If resentments and bitterness is creeping in too much, then a possible separation might be necessary to figure out what you both want out of the marriage and from each other.

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To broaden the context of this situation; most of the time things are going really well between us, she's the best person I've ever been with, a great partner, supportive, passionate, understanding, and has an amazing sense of humor.

 

That's what makes her behavior when like this so disconcerting, a switch is flipped and she's a different person!

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Just a suggestion, why don't you - every now and then - when you feel very righteous about something that pisses her off - try not saying "sorry" and stand your ground... eye to eye.

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GorillaTheater
I forgive him Old Shirt. I'm D'ing him but I have always forgiven him. I just needed to decide I was through being a verbal punching bag to someone who thought he was... already been over this but yeah, I forgave him and still do.

 

I'd be nuts by now if I held onto all that anger and resentment.

 

This is the philosophical angle I take on forgiveness. I've struggled with unforgiveness in the past, and it sure makes life a little easier when you can let go of past wrongs.

 

But as you point out, forgiveness is not the same thing as acceptance. Forgiveness and divorce are not at all incompatible.

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Michelle ma Belle

Forgiveness is more for you then it is for her. It's not meant to excuse their behavior but rather it prevents their behavior from destroying you.

 

"Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself" - Tony Robbins

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Elliotte, it's pretty sad when we begin acting the very thing that hurts us, isn't it. It's ugly (to me), when I felt the only way to be 'heard' and defend myself was to yell using the same crazy aweful words that have left scars on my heart*

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To broaden the context of this situation; most of the time things are going really well between us, she's the best person I've ever been with, a great partner, supportive, passionate, understanding, and has an amazing sense of humor.

 

That's what makes her behavior when like this so disconcerting, a switch is flipped and she's a different person!

 

If she acts like a child, perhaps you should react to it appropriately - that is realized its a childlike irrational outburst, establish your boundaries as the adult in the event, and remain calm but firm. Forgiveness is easier when you see it as childish outburst and remain firm and in a position of superior reason and strength.

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SawtoothMars
To broaden the context of this situation; most of the time things are going really well between us, she's the best person I've ever been with, a great partner, supportive, passionate, understanding, and has an amazing sense of humor.

That's what makes her behavior when like this so disconcerting, a switch is flipped and she's a different person!

 

Seriously... Ive been exactly where you are at and it's toxic. My xWife had an issue with pride to the point where I had to tell her that she can choose her pride or me. She chose her pride and that was it.

 

4 years after our divorce she sent me an email with some kind of semi-apology. She must have spent those years typing this 5 sentence apology, because somehow she found a way to apologize without admitting fault. Life is so much better without her crap. Just like yours though... she is an amazing person and great in almost every other regard.

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No, you don't forgive someone without their remorse.

 

I recommend the book, "How Can I Forgive You?" You'll be much more educated on the subject and frankly, I think it'll give you a much better perspective and some peace.

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You can forgive somebody while still choosing not to be with them. I have learned to forgive my ex but I have no desire to ever see her again in my life.

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It sounds like she's abusive and using your niceness against you.

Edited by bathtub-row
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