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Am I just not cut out for marriage?


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lucy_in_disguise

As you may recall, I am a late twenties woman pondering the prospects of starting a family with my long-term, early-thirties boyfriend. My boyfriend, though loving, reliable, and faithful, is highly risk-averse and has not shown much initiative in moving our relationship forward. While I believe this may not bode well for our future, I am interested in probing further before throwing in the towel.

 

So, the other day, to prepare for a discussion with him, i started thinking about the practical aspects of marriage, and what my preferences would be for merging our lives.

 

I started by making a projection of our combined finances into the future. I know finances can be a major point of contention in relationships, and we both hold strong views on the matter, so that seemed like the place to start.

 

After a while, I realized I was coming up with some rules that amount to a prenup. I made joint budget and joint investment proposals. Joint budget includes all household expenses and a "base" amount for discretionary spendkng and personal expenditres. The joint budget is to be based on a standard for lifestyle that is hashed out beforehand. (I am the lower maintenance party in the relationship, but this is something i believe we can agree on). joint investments include retirement funding, college savings, emergency savings, and and any other joint investment ventures we agree to pursue together.

 

Both parties contribute to the joint budget and investments according to their gross incomes. Any assets accumulated as such belong equally to both parties. Any remaining income remains under control and ownership of each spouse. Income earned through separate investments is included in gross income for the purpose of calculating contribution amounts. Assets acquired before marriage (including 401k) belong to each spouse.

 

Essentially, I am happy to enter into a permanent emotional and financial partnership, but retaining control over my finances is important to me. I want the freedom to make some investment and business decisions without consulting my spouse. Under my approach for combining finances, this would be possible- after contributing a "fair" portion to cover joint expenses and investments, I can do whatever the f I want with my remaining income.

 

But, I believe this is contrary to the intent of the law in my state (where all assets acquired during marriage are marital property) and possibly not in good faith to marriage as a concept.

 

Agree or disagree?

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WhatYouWantToHear

Definitely not in good faith of marriage, but if everyone agrees beforehand, who cares? Its your marriage. The only rule I would add, is no getting debt without the others knowledge and approval.

 

Also and most importantly, this such in-depth analysis (to prepare for a discussion with him) raises my "nutty" flag for you. If you started a conversation with me then I found out you did this much premeditation on it, it would scare me off.

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Smilecharmer

I would also add a sex clause which states that you have sex how ever many times you agree on that both feels good with. The number of sexless marriages is nuts here.

If he isn't moving the relationship forward though, are you jumping the gun? He may not want to marry you. Some people like having just a LTR.

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I would also add a sex clause which states that you have sex how ever many times you agree on that both feels good with.

 

"Honey, our contract specifies that we have sex a minimum of three times a week, and today is the end of the week, and it has only been twice! Let's go."

 

"Oh yes! You know how excited I get when you enforce our contract!"

 

If he isn't moving the relationship forward though, are you jumping the gun? He may not want to marry you. Some people like having just a LTR.

 

This, I agree with.

 

But OP, if you get married, you are mixing finances on some level. You can keep control of some of your money, but trying to get down to the level of who owns what % of what money goes a bit far.

 

Your plan to use a portion of your income on joint expenses and keep control of the rest is reasonable though.

 

But you are getting a bit ahead of yourself since he has no plans to marry you.

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There is nothing wrong with planning finances the way that you have. Before we married my wife moved in with me and we opened a joint bank account. This paid for mortgage, food, bills etc. We both kept our own money and our own bank accounts.

 

Jump forward a few years, we still have our own money, but as the high earner I pay all the bills via the still joint account. When we moved house we both put money in but we both still handle our own money.

 

But the longer you are together, especially once you marry everything becomes a lot more shared. That's the nature of marriage. So arguably you could split in 2 years and keep all of your money. But in 20 years it will be 'our' money.

 

I can't see a problem in what you are doing, and just because you are careful financially doesn't mean you aren't cut out for marriage.

 

There is also a point in any relationship, where sooner or later you discuss your future together and it is certainly better than drifting along. You see yourself married to this man and have said how you see the relationship working. However he has to want to get married first, so I think you should sort that part of the relationship first.

 

It's good that you have such a handle on the finance side of things.

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Smilecharmer
"Honey, our contract specifies that we have sex a minimum of three times a week, and today is the end of the week, and it has only been twice! Let's go."

 

"Oh yes! You know how excited I get when you enforce our contract!"

 

 

 

This, I agree with.

 

But OP, if you get married, you are mixing finances on some level. You can keep control of some of your money, but trying to get down to the level of who owns what % of what money goes a bit far.

 

Your plan to use a portion of your income on joint expenses and keep control of the rest is reasonable though.

 

But you are getting a bit ahead of yourself since he has no plans to marry you.

 

 

A Sex clause doesn't turn me on either and I have never needed it personally, but if they can do this with money, why not sex? Seems like sexless marriages are deal breakers to many people so make it known what is expected up front. Neither a prenup or a sex clause seems romantic or like they have faith in their relationship imo but this makes some people more comfortable about marriage in general.

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My boyfriend, though loving, reliable, and faithful, is highly risk-averse and has not shown much initiative in moving our relationship forward.

As others have said, how does a reluctant LTR partner translate into an enthusiastic participant in marriage?

 

And even more importantly, why would you want to marry someone you had to drag, manipulate and negotiate to the altar :eek: ???

 

Mr. Lucky

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"Honey, our contract specifies that we have sex a minimum of three times a week, and today is the end of the week, and it has only been twice! Let's go."

 

"Oh yes! You know how excited I get when you enforce our contract!"

 

 

 

Actually there have been some prenuptial with sex clauses. However I think a discussion that it regular sex is important and you will make it a priority to look out for each others needs. The number of sexless marriages IS crazy. I wish more couples and premarital counseling got into the hard conversations about things like sex in marriage.

 

But OP do you know the list of risks your BF has about marriage? Is it money? is it sex? or what? Why not ask him what he needs to feel more secure in committing.

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if you are that financially savvy you do exactly what you have planned. don't listen to any of the posts or anyone else's opinion. do what is right for you. in my opinion it means you are entering marriage with your eyes wide open, and guarding against any possible failures. and with 1 in 2 marriages ending in divorce you have every right to secure your own future and handle your own finances. if you feel weird about it or like it "goes against the good faith of marriage" then just don't tell people what you and the guy have agreed to. keep it private and no one will judge. i would dump any guy that didn't agree to this - who needs a male golddigger? :-) i told my bf that i would include something like this as well and he was ok with it so long as he could have a sex clause. so, expect something to come back at you like that.

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Finances are a pretty big piece of the pie in terms of logistics. I have always maintained separate accounts with my wife. She hated it in the beginning based on more of "it was not the norm"

 

We allocate similar to what you propose what is spent jointly but the rest is ours to do with.

 

The only thing i would go against is you want to do something without consulting your partner... not good. While it is yours to do with as in your finances, relationships should be transparent. While he may not have a say... sometimes a business decision can affect the relationship and should be discussed. If you are more career driven right now, perhaps that is more important. However you also give up opportunities that could be the best moments of your life... rolling the dice is scary but in either direction you risk opportunity costs.

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deathandtaxes

So many rules on the finances, OP. How to keep them straight? At that point, the theoretical marriage starts to feel like a business transaction and not a relationship.

 

 

But make no mistake, if you want to marry this guy, you must be in 100% agreement on the finances. Have you even talked about finances with him? It's almost as if you're jumping the gun by having all these ideas and projections.

 

 

Do married couples not do the common pot anymore? I did for my 11 year marriage and it worked great. Regardless of who made what, we put our income in one account, paid all the bills from it, and agreed on an amount we could each spend without having to ask the other.

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A Sex clause doesn't turn me on either and I have never needed it personally, but if they can do this with money, why not sex? Seems like sexless marriages are deal breakers to many people so make it known what is expected up front. Neither a prenup or a sex clause seems romantic or like they have faith in their relationship imo but this makes some people more comfortable about marriage in general.

 

The thing is you can't compare the two.

 

A better comparison would be writing a contract specifying that your partner must bring in X amount of income.

 

"You have to give me sex three times a week!"

"OK, you have to bring in a minimum of $200K. If it goes down to $100K, you only get sex once a week. And if you lose your job, all sex is off."

 

Then the guy loses his job, the woman has a medical issue where she can't have sex, and instead of trying to solve the problems together, they are finger pointing, saying "YOU BROKE OUR CONTRACT!"

 

It just doesn't make sense. You are a team, and you solve issues together.

 

A pre-nup, I can see a use for, if one partner has a lot of assets and the other doesn't. There's a lot to potentially lose without it. VS. if you are unhappy about not getting sex, you can walk away and find someone who wants to have more sex.

 

The thing is - asking for more sex has to come from inspiration and seduction, not forcing an obligation.

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lucy_in_disguise

To clarify... This discussion IS hypothetical. I have not, as a matter of fact, discussed any of it with my boyfriend. Before doing so, I felt it was a good idea to get a better understanding of my own views on marital finances.

 

That being said, to be honest, I am not sure how to initiate any kind of discussion, either, so if anyone has any tips, I'd love to hear. I was hoping to use the spreadsheet as a talking point but when I mentioned it to him, his only response was, "oh boy....". Then, my friends made fun of me for needing a PowerPoint marriage proposal, and I decided it was not wise to share.

 

I'm glad to hear the setup I'm describing is not that uncommon.

 

I agree with the poster who said a sex clause was more comparable to a clause re: minimum income vs. splitting the finances. A sex clause is contingent on actions and feelings to be upheld. An agreement to split disposable income as I am proposing is meant to be applicable in any situation.

Edited by lucy_in_disguise
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This thread started out on a discussion on how to handle the finances post marriage and ended up discussing contracts for sex. :)

 

I still think financial planning is a good idea. I also think (not just for Lucy, but generally) that discussions ahead of the wedding about what you both want from the marriage and your future is a good idea. It may sound obvious but there is a thread on this site from a woman who got married and then found out during the speeches that her husband didn't want chldren.

 

A friend of mine (married over 25 years now with 2 children) was surprised when his wife said she didn't want children, he'd just assumed every one did when they married.

 

So discuss finances - yes. Discuss everything as well - Yes.

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OP, I don't think the setup you're describing is uncommon... but making a spreadsheet of it before even being engaged does seem a bit much. I'd table the discussion about the nitty gritty details until both of you are actually planning to get married. But if your concern is his timeline re: marriage, then have a conversation about that, and his reasons for it. IF he says that his concern is the combined finances, then you can discuss your plans to alleviate that with your pre-nup.

 

The thing is you can't compare the two.

 

A better comparison would be writing a contract specifying that your partner must bring in X amount of income.

 

I'd compare it to a contract specifying that they must go out on X dates a week... :laugh:

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How committed is your BF to moving forward with you? Starting out with a spreadsheet would be a HUGE turnoff for me that early in. Spreadsheets come after engagement IMO, others may disagree. I can totally relate to "oh boy"

 

I would just keep it in conversation and lite conversation until you know for sure this is headed for serious commitment. As you head for it though, lite conversation as you come up with things, feel him out and see how he likes it. However if he invites the idea of this spreadsheet, go ahead.

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As you may recall, I am a late twenties woman pondering the prospects of starting a family with my long-term, early-thirties boyfriend. My boyfriend, though loving, reliable, and faithful, is highly risk-averse and has not shown much initiative in moving our relationship forward. While I believe this may not bode well for our future, I am interested in probing further before throwing in the towel.

 

So, the other day, to prepare for a discussion with him, i started thinking about the practical aspects of marriage, and what my preferences would be for merging our lives.

 

I started by making a projection of our combined finances into the future. I know finances can be a major point of contention in relationships, and we both hold strong views on the matter, so that seemed like the place to start.

 

After a while, I realized I was coming up with some rules that amount to a prenup. I made joint budget and joint investment proposals. Joint budget includes all household expenses and a "base" amount for discretionary spendkng and personal expenditres. The joint budget is to be based on a standard for lifestyle that is hashed out beforehand. (I am the lower maintenance party in the relationship, but this is something i believe we can agree on). joint investments include retirement funding, college savings, emergency savings, and and any other joint investment ventures we agree to pursue together.

 

Both parties contribute to the joint budget and investments according to their gross incomes. Any assets accumulated as such belong equally to both parties. Any remaining income remains under control and ownership of each spouse. Income earned through separate investments is included in gross income for the purpose of calculating contribution amounts. Assets acquired before marriage (including 401k) belong to each spouse.

 

Essentially, I am happy to enter into a permanent emotional and financial partnership, but retaining control over my finances is important to me. I want the freedom to make some investment and business decisions without consulting my spouse. Under my approach for combining finances, this would be possible- after contributing a "fair" portion to cover joint expenses and investments, I can do whatever the f I want with my remaining income.

 

But, I believe this is contrary to the intent of the law in my state (where all assets acquired during marriage are marital property) and possibly not in good faith to marriage as a concept.

 

Agree or disagree?

 

I can understand your fear of finances and marriage. When I married it was important to me to find someone who was on a good career track and could take care of me if I didn't work.

 

That being said, life does what life does. My husband lost his job soon after we got married and I went to work. Recently, I lost my job and now I stay home and he goes to work. We are trying to see if we can live on just his income because we seem to function better when one of us stays home.

 

You are trying really hard to control everything which ultimately is impossible. Right now you don't seem ready for marriage. Concentrate on your career and planning your financial future which seems to be were your heart lies now. You don't have to get married by the time your "whatever." Marry when you're ready.

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I can understand your fear of finances and marriage. When I married it was important to me to find someone who was on a good career track and could take care of me if I didn't work.

 

That being said, life does what life does. My husband lost his job soon after we got married and I went to work. Recently, I lost my job and now I stay home and he goes to work. We are trying to see if we can live on just his income because we seem to function better when one of us stays home.

 

You are trying really hard to control everything which ultimately is impossible. Right now you don't seem ready for marriage. Concentrate on your career and planning your financial future which seems to be were your heart lies now. You don't have to get married by the time your "whatever." Marry when you're ready.

 

A lot of wisdom here.

 

I agree about the career, but i get her point and think it's too early for it. I tried to plan too, ... lol nothing went to plan... but i did maintain separate accounts, we have for 16 years now. So that part she can keep, as in protecting her assets and such.

 

One thing OP, i too had a business already going before marriage and kept it separate... but told her all i did. funny thing is, i decided to re-incorporate and she is now part owner.

Edited by atreides
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