I think it is time to call it over...is there any option?

[Daisy2013]

Hi. I have posted in OW/OM forum because I've been one. Here, I post wondering if my M is even worth saving.

 

Married 16 years, 2 daughters, youngest 17. Mid-40s. We have always lived our own lives, including finances, separately. His choice. He has never ever tried to be a "family," always saying "you do what you want, I don't care. And I'll do what I want." I'm lonely, have always been lonely, hence, my affair, mostly emotional, with some physical. It's not happening anymore, we remain friends, but no affair.

 

I've begged my husband for years to be at home with us, do things with us. No. He prefers to hang out with his large, close-knit family. His family really needs no outsiders, they are so close. I attend family functions etc with him, he will not, with me. Won't even visit my family who lives 1 1/2 hrs away once in a while. I spend holidays alone, unless I go with him. There is nothing in our relationship. We have both thrown D at each other in anger. 2 1/2 years ago, when I became close with a friend, I shut down and quit begging. It didn't wake him up, he continued on, and we drifted further apart. Most nights, he isn't home until 9 or later, and he gets off at 3! He hangs out at his mom's or sister's, visiting with brother in law. He doesn't have another woman because he has no money to spend on her and if he did, we are so miserable, he'd be gone. Plus, aside from this mess, he is a decent and good man. Just ... I don't know.

 

I have basically raised our kids alone. They love their dad and are thrilled when he is home and the rare times he inner-acts. But, when he tries to discipline they become angry, saying he has no right to tell them what to do because he's never around. They say that to me, not him!

 

However, as we enter this new phase of life, I cannot continue. Recently, I asked him what he wanted for our future, what would he like to see happen in our relationship. He said "nothing. We do our own things." I said "no." I explained I was hoping for "friendship, communication, intimacy, companionship." I asked what I could do for him. Nothing. He shot down counseling. He ended the conversation by finishing his beer and going to sleep.

 

He says he will be dead in a few years and more like that. I think he's depressed, but won't get help or talk. He has always drank way too much beer, always in hand and never much else. He works, but not a good income for a family and didn't do anything to improve himself. I earn a good salary, almost 2x as much, but can't carry it all. He's frustrated about money, but there is nothing more I can do salary-wise. He would need to do it, but won't. I tell him we are just fine and are considered wealthy by Uncle Sam, but with kids and most families, struggle to get by.

 

In sum, it was like talking to a wall. Intimacy etc is not him. Early in our relationship, he worked weekends. On his rare, maybe first, weekend off, his sister in law asked him to keep the kids for the weekend at our house. He did. That was my first clue I'd never be first. I didn't mind the kids, I liked his family. It was just our first one and I was excited to have some time with him. Then history repeated with his family always being the most important. Even our children see it.

 

Has anyone ever turned something like this around? I'm dying and cannot live the next phase of life as it is now. I've asked him what he wants. I was positive and open. He is a wall. He just wants his beer and to live until he dies, he says. And if I want to continue being married, he will. If not, we can divorce.

 

My affair partner is not in this picture relationship-wise. He will never leave his wife although he says she makes him miserable. This decision is for me alone, and I know I would be alone. What this affair did was show me I could love and be loved. I did love my husband when we got married. But we got married because I became pregnant and we are polar opposites overall. Sex was always just sex. Now we go months and don't even try anymore. There was never passion or emotional intimacy. We gave it a good run, but is it enough?

 

At one point does one just give up? I am willing to work for it, but he is not. There's more, but this is long enough. I'm hoping someone will read it! Thank you.

[Zimber]

Plus, aside from this mess, he is a decent and good man.

To you? To your children? Sounds pretty inconsiderate and self centered to me!

 

Some of what you talk about reminds me of my father where his immediate family seemed to always come ... second. My mother lived in a safe but unhappy marriage for over 50 years and the affect on me was a person who had to deal with abandonment issues when he was in his twenties.

 

I don't condone affairs, but I understand how they happen if a person is neglected. I'm not sure if I understand your husband, but if he's always got a beer in hand, and his life is troubled, he's an alcoholic and not dealing with his responsibilities. I imagine the lure to his family is they accept him for the pathetic way he chooses to lives life without guilt or judgement (total speculation on my part).

 

I'm going to give you my opinion on what you should do and then I'm going to tell you why...

I think you should see a lawyer, find out what you're entitled to, what you can avoid (spousal support) and start divorce proceedings.

 

One of two things are going to happen...

 

1) Huzbo is going to wake up and start taking you seriously. Personally, I don't think it's going to happen. He'll more likely go running to his family, whine his butt off and latch on to a sympathy teat offered by mummy or sis. Bah, it bugs me to see someone throw away so much history because they are married to Budweiser.

 

2) You are going have a hard year or two, but while that's happening, start putting your life back together (sound's like you don't have much work to do). And yes, you will fine love again, and yes you will find joy. I have a thread open with a miniscule problem (in comparison), but what's revealed in it is that I'm engaged to be married this summer and my fiance is 46. The fact is, we're a whole bunch smarter second time around. We understand the chemical imbalance in our tiny brains that makes us pair bond and are able to logically filter choices for a better long term partner.

 

The good men are not all gone, they are popping up all the time, they just go quickly. The difficulty is being able to filter out the players (if you want exclusivity).

 

Unless he turns things around and fairly quickly, I would not advise you to stay in this "loveless" marriage. You are young enough to enjoy quite a few years of physical passion and the rest of your life with love if you find a like minded fellow. If you stay, then what is your life going to be? Will you snap at 65 when you can join a lawn bowling league for thrills? To heck with that, the time is now!!

 

In short, give him a chance (words won't work, your pleas are like a fly buzzing in the background to him, start the proceedings) and see if he is man enough to give up the booze and re-prioritize. Else, don't waste the rest of your life on someone who doesn't want the best for you!

 

Zimber

[OpheliaSong]

From how you described your relationship, I am struggling to see how it is considered a marriage in the first place so I am wondering what you are saving.

[Daisy2013]

To you? To your children? Sounds pretty inconsiderate and self centered to me!

 

in the earlier years, he was around more and just seems more friendly. Yes, he was gone a lot, but he was just different. Everyone said he is a nice and good and handsome man.

 

One of two things are going to happen...

 

1) Huzbo is going to wake up and start taking you seriously. Personally, I don't think it's going to happen. He'll more likely go running to his family, whine his butt off and latch on to a sympathy teat offered by mummy or sis. Bah, it bugs me to see someone throw away so much history because they are married to Budweiser.

 

Most likely. He has 4 brothers and 1 sister. The brothers seem to be able to separate their lives and still be a part of the family, without having to "hang out" at mom's or sister's. H can't understand why they don't come around more and visit and help. His mom and sister are the leaders of the family. Yes, his mom babies him. Everything has always been my fault when I've tried to talk to her. She's never told him to grow up and wear big boy pants and be a husband and father.

 

2) You are going have a hard year or two, but while that's happening, start putting your life back together (sound's like you don't have much work to do). And yes, you will fine love again, and yes you will find joy. I have a thread open with a miniscule problem (in comparison), but what's revealed in it is that I'm engaged to be married this summer and my fiance is 46. The fact is, we're a whole bunch smarter second time around. We understand the chemical imbalance in our tiny brains that makes us pair bond and are able to logically filter choices for a better long term partner.

 

I have started living as if I were single, except for the going out part. I go home after work to do my chores and be home when the kids are home. They are gone a lot now at their ages, but I like to be there for them. I've learned to do what needs to be done without waiting for him to do it.

 

The good men are not all gone, they are popping up all the time, they just go quickly. The difficulty is being able to filter out the players (if you want exclusivity).

 

Unless he turns things around and fairly quickly, I would not advise you to stay in this "loveless" marriage. You are young enough to enjoy quite a few years of physical passion and the rest of your life with love if you find a like minded fellow. If you stay, then what is your life going to be? Will you snap at 65 when you can join a lawn bowling league for thrills? To heck with that, the time is now!!

 

I'm kind of shy regarding men and am not a nightclub person or partier. I don't know how I'd ever meet anyone else. I met my A at church of all places, but it is small and doesn't really have a singles ministry. This was the first person I'd ever experienced "chemistry" with, so I see what can happen if you find the right person. It is kind of exciting! But it is ok if I don't. I'm doing this for myself.

 

In short, give him a chance (words won't work, your pleas are like a fly buzzing in the background to him, start the proceedings) and see if he is man enough to give up the booze and re-prioritize. Else, don't waste the rest of your life on someone who doesn't want the best for you!

 

Thank you for your advice and encouragement! I appreciate it. Will give serious thought to what you've said. Many blessings to you on your upcoming marriage!

[Daisy2013]

From how you described your relationship, I am struggling to see how it is considered a marriage in the first place so I am wondering what you are saving.

 

History and family. I've always wanted a family. It seems I got a partial one. What's really sad is there are no home memories because of the way things are. Since there are two sides to everything, I asked him what he wanted, etc. "Nothing" was his answer, so that is what it will have to be.

[kjohn]

Your story is a lot like mine in many ways…H drinking, never home, not participating in the family, refusing counseling….except in my case he was the one that had the affair and that it what made me decide I was done.

 

I have been divorced now for 3 years and I have to tell you that life is a lot more peaceful not having to worry about what he is doing all the time.

 

Not being disappointed by him not coming home…yet again.

 

Not waking up at 4:00 a.m., realizing he is not in bed and wondering where he is or if he is dead on the side of the road from drinking and driving again.

 

Not trying to call him to make sure he is ok only to find he has turned off his phone again because he doesn't want me to know what he's doing.

 

He drinks because he is miserable. He was not drinking because I made him miserable or he was miserable in our marriage. I know this because he still drinks and based on several conversations I have had with his mother (who still comes to me for support because she can't get over our divorce) he is still miserable.

 

Not my problem anymore.

 

His sister told me at the beginning of our divorce that she thinks he will always be unhappy in life because he is incapable of looking within himself to find happiness….he is afraid of what he will have to deal with if he goes there.

 

He is not a horrible person. He's a pretty decent guy. I have no problems talking with him about our child. We had a very amicable & easy divorce and now I have a very peaceful life with no arguing, no fighting, no begging, no worrying….none of it.

 

I was never going to change him.

 

You are never going to change your H.

 

He will only change if HE wants to change and he has told you flat out that he doesn't want to change.

 

You have to decide what is best for you and do that. Leave him out of the equation.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

.

 

He just wants his beer and to live until he dies, he says. And if I want to continue being married, he will. If not, we can divorce.

 

.

 

 

 

Let me translate this for you in man-speak.

 

 

He is saying that if you wish to continue to live in the house and take care of the kids and do household chores and continue to pay most of the household bills and finances and be somewhat cordial roommates with him, he will do that and be ok with it.

 

 

But if you are unhappy with that arraingement and want to move on with your life and pursue other things, he is ok with that too and won't hamper your efforts or cause you any problems.

 

 

Basically he is happy with his life as it is. As long as he has his beer and his homies he's OK. The house means nothing to him, he would be just as content in a little one-room apt that doesn't need much care, maintenance or bills. He's ok without the kids. They are pretty much grown up and doing their own thing and they let him do his own thing too.

 

 

And this is going to sting a little but he's fine without you too. It doesn't sound like he harbors any ill-will, anger or dislike of you. You are just the roommate who pays most of the bills, keeps the home in order and keeps the kids off his back while he has his beer with his family.

 

 

Offer him to keep his own personal property. tell him he can see the kids when he wants but you won't try to force any kind of actual custodial requirements on him (he doesn't want any kind of actual custody, he'll probably just leave it up to them if they want to ever come and see him if they want) and offer him some kind of reasonable financial settlement so he can get an apt somewhere and come away with a little beer money and he will sign the papers without any fanfare or drama and let you go on with your own life.

 

 

There is a whole world out there for you to experience and enjoy.

[oldshirt]

Sometimes all a divorce is is the courthouse getting caught up on all the legal paperwork after the marriage had ended long long ago.

 

 

That's what's taking place here. He checked out of this as a "marriage" many many years ago and has been living off of you as a roommate who keeps the kids out of his hair and takes care of the bills and such so he can do his own thing.

 

 

This is basically a host-parasite arrangement where you are the host and he is the parasite.

 

 

A host always is healthier and happier when the parasite is gone.

[oldshirt]

 

 

Here, I post wondering if my M is even worth saving.

 

 

IT'S ALREADY DEAD. IT DIED MANY YEARS AGO. TREAT IT LIKE A REAL DEATH. MOURN IT. HOLD A SERVICE FOR IT (DIVORCE) LAY IT IN IT'S GRAVE AND GIVE IT A PROPER BURIAL. GO THROUGH YOUR GRIEF STAGES (YOU ARE CURRENTLY IN DENIAL) AND MOVE ON WITH LIVING YOUR LIFE.

 

Married 16 years, 2 daughters, youngest 17.

 

 

 

 

THAT MEANS STAYING TOGETHER "FOR THE CHILDREN" IS A NONISSUE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mid-40s. We have always lived our own lives, including finances, separately.

 

 

THAT MEANS YOU WON'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE MOVING ON. YOU MAY THINK YOU WILL NOW, BUT YOU ACTUALLY WON'T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

His choice.

 

 

THAT MEANS HE'S ALWAYS KNOWN THIS DAY WOULD COME AND HE'S OK WITH IT.

 

 

He has never ever tried to be a "family," always saying "you do what you want, I don't care. And I'll do what I want."

 

 

 

 

AND HE HAS BEEN TRUE TO HIS WORD. HE IS CONGRUENT. HIS ACTIONS MEET HIS WORDS. DIVORCE WILL NOT HURT HIM. HE WILL LIKELY BE HAPPIER TOO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm lonely, have always been lonely,

 

 

CHANGE DOES NOT COME FROM DOING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hence, my affair, mostly emotional, with some physical.

 

 

 

 

LIVING PROOF THERE IS MORE TO LIFE OUT THERE AND THAT YOU ARE STILL A LIVING, BREATHING WOMAN WHO YEARNS TO BE NOTICED, APPRECIATED AND TOUCHED.

 

 

PROOF THERE IS STILL SOME LIFE LEFT INSIDE YOU.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have both thrown D at each other in anger.

 

 

SEE A LAWYER, DEVELOP A GAME PLAN. GET ALL YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW AND PRESENT HIM WITH THE PAPERS BUT DON'T DO IT IN ANGER. DO IT VERY DISPASSIONATELY AND MATTER OF FACTLY. SINCE YOUR YOUNGEST IS TECHNICALLY A MINOR, THE COURT WILL LIKELY ORDER YOU TO DO REMEDIATION. YOU CAN DISCUSS THE TERMS OF THE DIVORCE RATIONALLY AND FAIRLY AT THAT TIME.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 1/2 years ago, when I became close with a friend, I shut down and quit begging. It didn't wake him up, he continued on, and we drifted further apart.

 

 

THAT MEANS HE IS DISENGAGED AND DISCONNECTED AND IS OK WITH THAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most nights, he isn't home until 9 or later, and he gets off at 3! He hangs out at his mom's or sister's, visiting with brother in law.

 

 

"YOUR TREASURE IS WHERE YOU PUT YOUR TIME"

 

 

 

 

He doesn't have another woman because he has no money to spend on her and if he did, we are so miserable, he'd be gone.

 

 

 

 

ONE OF TWO THINGS TAKING PLACE HERE. EITHER HE ACTUALLY DOES HAVE ANOTHER WOMAN AND YOU HAVEN'T DONE YOUR DUE DILIGENCE TO UNCOVER IT YET. OR HE TRULY DOESN'T HAVE AN INTEREST IN HAVING A CLOSE INIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH ANY WOMAN. MONEY DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. THERE ARE PLENTY OF TOOTHLESS ALCOHOLIC WOMEN DOWN AT THE OL' TRAILER PARK THAT WOULD THINK HE WAS A FINE CATCH I'M NOT SURE WHICH IS BETTER OR WHICH IS WORSE.

EITHER WAY, IT MEANS YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE PICTURE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus, aside from this mess, he is a decent and good man. Just ... I don't know.

 

 

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DRUELING, BEADY-EYED MONSTER DRAGGING HIS HAIRY KNUCKLES ON THE GROUND CLUBBING BABY SEALS AND TOSSING BABY BIRDS OUT OF THEIR NESTS TO BE A BAD MATCH FOR YOU. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HATE HIM TO WANT TO MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANY WRONGDOING ON HIS PART. YOUR KIDS ARE GROWN. YOU HAVE NO NEED FOR HIM AT ALL ANYMORE. YOU CAN START DOING YOUR OWN THING TOO NOW.

 

 

I have basically raised our kids alone.

 

 

AND NOW THEY ARE ADULTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

They love their dad and are thrilled when he is home and the rare times he inner-acts.

 

 

THEY HAVE NO NEED TO HATE HIM EITHER.

 

 

 

 

But, when he tries to discipline they become angry, saying he has no right to tell them what to do because he's never around.

 

 

THEY DO HAVE A POINT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They say that to me, not him!

 

 

 

TELL THEM TO SAY IT TO HIM, YOU ALREADY REALISE HE DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT.

 

However, as we enter this new phase of life, I cannot continue.

 

 

I VERY GLAD TO HEAR YOU ARE STARTING TO REALISE THAT.

 

 

 

 

Recently, I asked him what he wanted for our future, what would he like to see happen in our relationship. He said "nothing.

 

 

 

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY BELIEVE HIM!!!!

 

 

AS I SAID EARLIER, HE HAS BEEN A MAN OF HIS WORD. HE HAS SAID WHAT HE MEANT AND MEANT WHAT HE HAS SAID.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We do our own things." I said "no."

 

 

START SAYING "OK" AND THEN ACTUALLY DO IT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I explained I was hoping for "friendship, communication, intimacy, companionship."

 

 

 

 

YOU MIGHT AS HOPE FOR GOLD NUGGETS TO DROP OUT OF YOUR BUTT TOO.

 

 

IN ORDER FOR YOU TO HAVE FRIENSHIP, COMMUNICATION AND INTIMACY OUT OF HIM, HE HAS TO LIFT A FINGER TO DO IT. HE HAS SHOUTED TO YOU LOUD AND CLEAR HE DOES NOT WANT TO DO THAT AND HAS NO INTENTIONS OF DOING IT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I asked what I could do for him. Nothing.

 

 

YOU DID YOUR JOB BY ASKING. HE GAVE HIS ANSWER. PLEASE START BELIEVING HIM.

 

 

 

 

He shot down counseling.

 

 

COUNSELING IS FOR THOSE THAT ARE UNHAPPY AND HAVE PROBLEMS. HE'S PERFECTLY HAPPY. HE HAS NO REASON TO GO TO COUNSELING. IT WOULD JUST BE A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY FOR HIM.

 

 

 

 

He ended the conversation by finishing his beer and going to sleep.

 

 

ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUNDER THAN WORDS AND ACTIONS ALWAYS DISPLAY PEOPLE'S TRUE INTENTIONS.

 

 

He says he will be dead in a few years and more like that.

 

 

HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think he's depressed, but won't get help or talk.

 

 

THAT'S YOU PROJECTING YOUR DEPRESSION ONTO HIM. HE'S PERFECTLY CONTENT.

 

 

He has always drank way too much beer, always in hand and never much else.

 

 

ALCOHOLISM/ADDICTION IS EVEN SANCTIONED AS A LEGITIMATE CAUSE FOR DIVORCE BY THE VATICAN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He works, but not a good income for a family and didn't do anything to improve himself. I earn a good salary, almost 2x as much, but can't carry it all.

 

 

YOU CAN'T CARRY IT ALL IN YOUR CURRENT HOUSE WITH HIM IN IT. YOU WILL DO BETTER IN YOUR OWN NEW HOME WITHOUT HIM IN YOUR LIFE HOLDING YOU BACK. HE IS A DRAIN AND A LIABILITY. NOT AN ASSET.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's frustrated about money, but there is nothing more I can do salary-wise. He would need to do it, but won't.

 

 

HE WILL ACTUALLY DO BETTER IN HIS ONE-ROOM APT BY HIMSELF TOO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tell him we are just fine and are considered wealthy by Uncle Sam, but with kids and most families, struggle to get by.

 

 

YOU STRUGGLED TO GET BY HISTORICALLY WITH MINOR CHILDREN AND ALL HIS INCOME GOING TO THE ANHEIZER BUSCH COMPANY. YOUR CHILDREN ARE NOW ADULTS AND IF THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH YOU IN YOUR NEW HOME YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DRAW UP A NEW FINANCIAL PLAN AND BUDGET AND THEY WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE HOUSEHOLD.

 

In sum, it was like talking to a wall.

 

 

 

 

YES

 

 

 

 

 

 

Intimacy etc is not him.

 

 

YES

 

 

 

 

Has anyone ever turned something like this around?

 

 

WOULD IT REALLY MATTER IF SOMEONE ELSE DID? THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT YOUR SITUATION WILL TURN AROUND AT ALL.

 

 

 

 

I'm dying and cannot live the next phase of life as it is now.

 

 

PLEASE READ WHAT YOU WROTE OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTILL YOU REALISE THAT FACT YOURSELF.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've asked him what he wants. I was positive and open. He is a wall.

 

 

NO, YOU ARE THE WALL. HE HAS BEEN TALKING TO A DEAF AND BLIND WALL.

 

 

YOU ARE NOT HEARING HIM. YOU ARE NOT SEEING HIM FOR WHAT HE REALLY IS AND WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY DOING. PLEASE START BELIEVING WHAT HE HAS TOLD YOU AND WHAT HE HAS SHOWN YOU BY HIS OWN ACTIONS. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN DEAF AND BLIND HERE. PLEASE START OPENING UP YOUR EYES AND SEEING AND OPENING UP YOUR EARS AND HEARING.

 

 

 

 

He just wants his beer and to live until he dies, he says.

 

 

FOR THE TENTH TIME, PLEASE START BELIEVING HIM.

 

 

 

 

And if I want to continue being married, he will. If not, we can divorce.

 

 

 

THAT'S ALL ANYONE NEEDS TO HEAR. NOTHING ELSE HAS NEEDED TO BE SAID. I ALREADY ADDRESSED THIS.

 

 

 

My affair partner is not in this picture relationship-wise. He will never leave his wife although he says she makes him miserable.

 

 

 

 

THEN DON'T GIVE HIM ANY MORE TIME, EFFORT OR ENERGY. YOU HAVE ALREADY WASTED 16 YEARS ON A MAN THAT WAS NOT THERE FOR YOU. DON'T WASTE ANOTHER MINUTE WITH ANOTHER ONE.

 

 

 

 

This decision is for me alone, and I know I would be alone.

 

 

A BETTER WAY TO WORD IT IS YOU HAVE SPENT 16 YEARS WAITING FOR HIM TO SHOW SOME LEADERSHIP IN PROVIDING YOU A HAPPY, HEALTHY LIFE OF LOVE AND COMPANIONSHIP AND INTIMACY. YOU NOW HAVE TO SEE YOUR REALITY FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS AND TAKE YOUR FUTURE AND YOUR OWN WELLBEING INTO YOUR OWN HANDS.

 

 

AND IF YOU MEAN THAT YOU WILL BE "ALONE" AS IN A LIFE OF LONELINESS AND ISOLATION, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG. YOU HAVE LONELINESS AND ISOLATION NOW. IF YOU LEAVE AND TAKE OUT ON YOUR OWN, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AND MAKE WHATEVER KIND OF LIFE YOU WANT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What this affair did was show me I could love and be loved.

 

 

YOU ARE CORRECT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did love my husband when we got married.

 

 

 

 

THAT WAS THEN. THIS IS NOW.

 

 

 

 

But we got married because I became pregnant and we are polar opposites overall.

 

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR A MISTAKE FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.

 

 

 

 

Sex was always just sex. Now we go months and don't even try anymore.

 

 

ORGASMS ARE GOOD. CELIBACY AND LONELINESS ARE VERY UNNATURAL AND UNHEALTHY.

 

 

 

 

There was never passion or emotional intimacy. We gave it a good run, but is it enough?

 

 

THAT'S A DUMB QUESTION.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am willing to work for it, but he is not.

 

 

THEN IT'S A WRAP. ENOUGH SAID. IT TAKES TWO AND YOU DON'T HAVE TWO. HE HAS MADE IT CHRYSTAL CLEAR. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT'S NOT READING THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

 

 

WAKE UP. IT'S THE MONDAY MORNING OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

 

 

 

 

There's more

 

 

OF COURSE THERE'S MORE. BUT HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU NEED BEFORE YOU SHT OR GET OFF THE POT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please read my responses above. I am not yelling but just capitalized to differenciate my responses from yours.

 

 

I think you have blinders on and need to take them off and see what's really taking place here and do what you already know needs to be done. I think the purpose of your post was to ask others for permission to move on with your life.

 

 

permission granted.

[oldshirt]

 

 

At one point does one just give up?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll give you my personal thoughts on that but first I want you to give us all one solid, legitimate and rational reason why you should not move on with your own life.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At one point does one just give up?

.

 

 

 

 

 

That classic deal-breakers that most marriage therapists, courts and major religions recognize as legitimate reasons to dissolve a marriage are abuse, addition, adultery and abandonment. Any one of those is generally considered legitimate grounds for divorce. Let's look at those a little more closely -

 

 

Abuse- nothing you have said indicates abusive.

 

 

Adultry - you've had that. My Spidey-senses tell me if you were to do some investigating you will find that he has stepped out as well.

 

 

Addiction - yes, he is an alcoholic.

 

 

Abandonment - oh yeah big time. he unabashedly and unapologetically checked out many many years ago. and to be fair, you probably did too. you've just been marking time waiting for him to make the decision and determine the course of the marriage. The problem is you haven't heard him or believed him when he's told you. you were expecting him to say to either work it out and get on track or to pack up and go your separate ways. You didn't count on him deciding to separate in place and still live separate lives under one roof. I really hope you start to see that light soon.

 

 

OK so you have 3 out of the 4 reasons that even the Pope himself will grant a divorce.

 

 

 

 

I'll add a few others of my own.

 

 

- when your spouse checks out and shows no indication of wanting a relationship more than roommates sharing rent.

 

 

- when you look at other couples and all you can feel is envy and jealousy and say, "why can't I have that?"

 

 

- when you realize that no matter what you do, this is going to be as good as it will ever get from here on out. .......and 'this' isn't good enough for you.

 

 

- when all you can do is look at other men/women and imagine what it would be like to be in a relationship with them.

- especially if you are actively pursuing a relationship with them.

 

 

- when you do cheat and your spouse does nothing about it.

 

 

- when you cheat and you may know it wasn't right but way deep down you know you did what you had to do to feel human again.

 

 

- when you are lonelier, more isolated and more depressed in the marriage than you would be on your own, even if you don't have someone else lined up.

 

 

- when you do not have any future plans together.

 

 

- when all your hopes and dreams and 'bucket-list' items do not include your partner.

 

 

- when all their hopes and dreams do not include you.

 

 

- when you'd rather masturbate than make love with them.

 

 

-when they'd rather masturbate than make love with you.

 

 

-when you do have sex and you wish you would've masturbated instead.

 

 

- when you actually do have a few moments of fun with them and you wish you were doing that activity with someone else instead.

 

 

- we all fantasize about other people or celebrities when making love to our spouse from time to time and that's probably a healthy thing. what is a bad thing is when you are having sex with your spouse and truly do wish you were doing it with a specific person that you are associated with in real life instead.

 

 

- when you know deep in your heart that if you took off with the kids for a two vacation, you know they will enjoy the peace and quiet and won't miss you.

 

 

-....you actually do it and don't miss them. ..... and you wish they'd take off for a couple weeks so you could enjoy not having them around.

 

 

I could go on but I think you get my point and can fill in with some of your own.

[Daisy2013]

I'll give you my personal thoughts on that but first I want you to give us all one solid, legitimate and rational reason why you should not move on with your own life.

 

Fear of starting over. Fear of being alone and turning into an old cat lady! I have 4 now, well, can just keep adding to the herd as I get older! Wondering if he felt there was something I could do better.

 

Seriously, oldshirt, THANK you for taking the time to read and dissect my post, it means so much. I sit here with tears in my eyes, as it is like you have been a fly on my wall and have said some exact things he has said or that I have felt.

 

He has said he'd be happy in a one-room apartment and needs nothing. He has told my oldest he never wanted to be married anyway and wanted to live a simple life. She told me he said that.

 

Today he is home and sober and fixed a roast for dinner. That's the guy I side to know.

 

You are correct about sex. I've cried when I've submitted, feeling lonely and empty. I've cried in the arms of my affair partner in experiencing feelings down to my core and in disbelief and yet in wonderment one could feel like I did at that moment. I never knew. It's ok if I never do again, because at least now I KNOW what love and intimacy is. I'm not wasting time on him. I see that I'm repeating the same pattern of trying "to catch" and emotionally available man.

 

Husband goes to camp with his brother frequently for the weekend. I used to get upset because while he never took time for us, he makes sure to go with his brother. And I'd sit home and miss him and wait. Now I no longer care, and don't really miss him anymore.

 

The only thing is an affair for him. I have checked txt messages and haven't found anything. Although a few years ago, after his dad passed away, I found his communicating on FB with an old GF. I questioned him, he shot it down and changed his PW. She is out of state. Also a few years before that, he told me he wanted out and didn't love me, but we got through it. Other than that, I doubt it. But will dig more.

 

So much you hit exactly. I can't quote it all. Just know EVERYTHING you said is hoe I'm feeling and how things are.

[Daisy2013]

oldshirt, one last thing. I've paid private school tuition all these years, in addition to our mortgage, and all extras for the kids. He is responsible for utilities and groceries. This year I told him he would have to pay 1 tuition, that I was tapped out. I made him borrow from his 401k (bad to do, I know), but with another loan coming up for me to apply for, I just needed help. He raged for days. I looked at him and said "Really, after all of these years of me paying and I need help, you get mad?" I'm sure he whined to mom and sister and that's why he came back with questions.

 

He's upset my oldest is starting college in August and now there will be college expenses. I asked him didn't he want our children to have the best start in life as possible? He just got mad, saying we'd never have money or get to go on vacations. I said "you could have gone to trade school and learned something and earned a good salary, but you chose to stay working where you do." He shut up at that point.

 

My roof leaks in 3 spots when it rains. There is a leaky pipe under my kitchen sink slab when I rinse dishes long enough. I can't get him to work with me and budget to fix these things. He just whines and gets angry. I can't do it alone with all I already pay for. My credit is good, but my debt high, from my own never-ending college loans and raising my girls without much help.

 

Maybe it's time to list the house "fixer upper, as is" and someone will come along...and just move on. We've never 2nd mortgaged it, so should be able to unload it for the loan balance, under $100k, in a high priced real estate market.

[oldshirt]

Fear of starting over. Fear of being alone and turning into an old cat lady!

 

 

DECISIONS MADE OUT OF FEAR ARE RARELY THE RIGHT ONES.

 

 

YOU ARE ALREADY ALONE NOW. THE CATCH NOW IS YOU CAN'T MOVE FORWARD, YOU ARE STUCK. YOU HAVE FEW OPTIONS. ON YOUR OWN YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD AND HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS.

 

 

DEEP INSIDE ALL OF US IS SOME KIND OF WEIRD DYSFUNCTIONAL HARDWIRING AND A LITTLE VOICE THAT TELLS US THAT THIS IS OUR ONE SHOT AT LOVE AND IF IT FALLS THROUGH THEN WE ARE GOING TO DIE ALONE WITH ALL OF OUR CATS CANNIBLIZING OUR DEAD CARCASS ON THE FLOOR.

 

 

THIS IS A COMPLETELY FICTITIOUS AND FALSE REALITY OF COURSE. YOU HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF FINDING LOVE AND WELLBEING WITHOUT HIM IN YOUR LIFE THAN WITH HIM.

 

 

 

 

Wondering if he felt there was something I could do better.

 

 

HE WON'T FEEL YOU COULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING BETTER BECAUSE HE NEVER REALLY WANTED A WIFE AND FAMILY ANYWAY.

 

 

He has said he'd be happy in a one-room apartment and needs nothing. He has told my oldest he never wanted to be married anyway and wanted to live a simple life.

 

 

THERE'S YOUR SIGN.

 

 

 

 

Today he is home and sober and fixed a roast for dinner. That's the guy I side to know.

 

 

NOONE HAS SAID THAT HE IS A BAD OR EVIL PERSON OR THAT HE IS ALWAYS MEAN OR ABUSIVE. HE IS SIMPLY NOT HUSBAND AND FATHER MATERIAL.

 

You are correct about sex. I've cried when I've submitted, feeling lonely and empty. I've cried in the arms of my affair partner in experiencing feelings down to my core and in disbelief and yet in wonderment one could feel like I did at that moment. I never knew. It's ok if I never do again, because at least now I KNOW what love and intimacy is. I'm not wasting time on him. I see that I'm repeating the same pattern of trying "to catch" and emotionally available man.

 

 

THERE ARE SO MANY MEN OUT THERE THAT WANT TO HAVE A HEALTHY AND CLOSE AND INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP.

 

 

 

 

Husband goes to camp with his brother frequently for the weekend. I used to get upset because while he never took time for us, he makes sure to go with his brother. And I'd sit home and miss him and wait. Now I no longer care, and don't really miss him anymore.

 

 

THAT'S BECAUSE EVEN IF HE IS HOME, HE'S NOT REALLY THERE.

 

 

 

 

The only thing is an affair for him. I have checked txt messages and haven't found anything. Although a few years ago, after his dad passed away, I found his communicating on FB with an old GF. I questioned him, he shot it down and changed his PW. She is out of state. Also a few years before that, he told me he wanted out and didn't love me, but we got through it. Other than that, I doubt it. But will dig more.

 

 

HERE'S MY FINAL THOUGHTS ON HIM AND OTHER WOMEN - BOTTOM LINE IS IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. IF THE BURNING BUSH APPEARED BEFORE YOU AND SAID THAT HE HAS NEVER CHEATED, WILL THAT REALLY CHANGE YOUR POSITION OR SWAY YOUR MIND TO STAY AND CONTINUE TO TRY???

 

 

I SAY IF FINDING EVIDENCE OF HIM ASSOCIATING WITH OTHER IS WHAT YOU NEED TO HAMMER THE FINAL NAILS IN THE COFFIN AND MOVE ON, THEN GO AHEAD AND DIG FOR IT IF IT WILL HELP YOU SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT.

 

 

IF KNOWLEDGE OF INFIDELITY WON'T SWAY YOUR DECISION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THEN WHY BURN UP THE TIME AND ENERGY? YOU ALREADY KNOW WHERE THINGS STAND.

 

.

 

 

A few more thoughts in capital.

[oldshirt]

 

 

I've paid private school tuition all these years, in addition to our mortgage, and all extras for the kids. He is responsible for utilities and groceries. This year I told him he would have to pay 1 tuition, that I was tapped out. I made him borrow from his 401k (bad to do, I know), but with another loan coming up for me to apply for, I just needed help. He raged for days. I looked at him and said "Really, after all of these years of me paying and I need help, you get mad?" I'm sure he whined to mom and sister and that's why he came back with questions.

 

 

 

Maybe it's time to list the house "fixer upper, as is" and someone will come along...and just move on. We've never 2nd mortgaged it, so should be able to unload it for the loan balance, under $100k, in a high priced real estate market.

 

 

 

This is all stuff to talk to your lawyer about.