Sandra_Dee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My BF finished school almost a year ago, and gets very angry if I try to talk to him about future plans. No matter how nice and supportive I try to be, when I try to talk to him about it (about once every 2 months), he feels judged, like I think he's a loser for not having a job. I think he's stuck and has many fears, but I don't understand what they are and am frustrated by not having any idea what he wants in life, and that I can't help. The few times I tried to talk to him he argues he has no goals in life, but then admits that he feels like a failure and doesn't want to do anything about it (he hasn't looked for a job yet, so he hasn't technically failed at anything). I don't care if he works or not. Finances are not an issue. I do care that he contribute to society in some way, and I do admit that I'm not attracted to low ambition. I'd like to feel like a team, like we are working toward a life together, but I don't knwo where to go when he won't talk to me about any of this tough stuff, and knowing he's just not the kind of guy to naturally make plans and have goals. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I do admit that I'm not attracted to low ambition. he's just not the kind of guy to naturally make plans and have goals. Well, first you'll have to clarify your own position, contradictory as it is. Every ambitious achiever I've met in my 6 decades had clear cut goals and a plan as to how they were going to be accomplished. Not one sat on their couch, ate pizza, played xBox and had success delivered to their door. If we accept your post at face value, you're "not attracted" to your BF. It that's true, why stay ??? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Ditto what others said Edited March 3, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator removed non relevant parts Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 He doesn't believe in depression. He's as happy as any of us, really, but his biggest coping mechanism is avoidance. I don't think it's clinical, as the anger/avoidance is really focused on career only. Needless to say, if he refuses to seek help from me or his family, I doubt he will from a professional. His deciding to go to school was incredibly attractive, so I'm struggling with what's "the norm" and the "exception to the norm" and hoping he finds another passion. He has many other redeeming qualities, love and attraction isn't limited to ambition. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Ditto what others said Edited March 3, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator removed non relevant parts Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 He doesn't believe in depression. He's as happy as any of us, really, but his biggest coping mechanism is avoidance. I don't think it's clinical, as the anger/avoidance is really focused on career only. Needless to say, if he refuses to seek help from me or his family, I doubt he will from a professional. His deciding to go to school was incredibly attractive, so I'm struggling with what's "the norm" and the "exception to the norm" and hoping he finds another passion. He has many other redeeming qualities, love and attraction isn't limited to ambition. He doesn't have to believe in depression, doesn't mean he doesn't have it! It sounds like he has no self confidence, maybe suffers from social phobia or anxiety. Fact though is, if he doesn't get help this will get worse. Then again, you say he is wanting to go to school so it could be he doesn't want to work and is lazy. Though I'm leaning towards social anxiety issues and some form of depression. Does he help around the house? Do chores? Dishes? He is your boyfriend, not your husband. If he refuses to get help and fix himself you don't have to stay, you're obligated to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yes, he is anxious, that's true. He has his own money, we've been 50/50 all the way, but I don't know how long his savings will last. He is really helpful around the house, he doesn't do everything, but he does way more than his fair share. He's always there for me, and always doing extra little things. It's not like he's lazy, just not ambitious and not communicating. Again, if he wants to continue staying home and doing what he's doing, I only ask that we talk about it and name it, own it. He is so avoidant that I don't know if that's what he wants. Whatever is going through his head is stuck, and I don't know what to do. I've grown impatient waiting for him to figure it out on his own. We had to move to another state for his school, and even in the tears before he graduated he would get really mad if anyone asked him about what he'd do after school. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 He is so avoidant that I don't know if that's what he wants. I spent 13 years trying to discern the motivations, intentions and wants of a non-communicating, avoidant spouse. You're getting a sneak preview of a passive approach to life's challenges. Without communication, how does it get better? At least for me, it didn't... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ninjainpajamas Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I think the answer is he doesn't really know what to do next, and he's already thinking about it in the back of his mind but hasn't come to terms and set a clear goal of what he wants to do, he's fearing the rejection/failure but also seems to be a bit aloof on how to take the next step. I think when you ask and anyone else asks it's just an added pressure and stress, because he doesn't really have the answer...yes, he had the goal to complete his schooling but once he was on track with hat all he had to do was finish..there was a clear goal, but beyond that he didn't make enough preparation or he thought something was going to work out differently than he anticipated. At any rate, I don't think with the pressure and your attitude he's going to be honest with you because he'll just feel judged and unsupported, I think your vision of support for him might be you questioning him and try to "check-in"..kind of like a parent checks in with their kids if they did their homework they didn't want to do, you essentially become the antagonist. So I think he senses the worry and judgment already and just feels like the reason you are asking is to make a stronger opinion or judgment about him and recognize the fact that he really is just stuck...which seems to be the case. I wouldn't push him any further, if his reaction is defensive and he's paying the bills...let him be. You're not his mother, don't watch over him and try to "check-in" to see where things are just to see if there's anything you can do about it...because if he doesn't want your help he doesn't want your help, nothing you do or say, especially if your agitation and impatience is going to motivate him further. Let him run out of money if that's what it takes, and if it comes to that then you can pretty much crack the whip because you'd be paying 100 percent...I mean you could also tell him that you're worried that you'll have to cover the bills alone and about YOUR own hardship. So basically let him be responsible for himself and you for yourself in this respect, because what he is dealing with is personal...I always hear women always say when it comes to men "If I want your advice, I'll ask for it...otherwise let me figure it out on my own"..so there you go, If I gave you all the advice in the world about men you'd probably be disappointed you couldn't live in this fantasy/non-reality of hope and wishful thinking and feel "cheated" out of all the blindness that you need to go through to learn about men yourself...that works the same way with men in a sense but with their own personal ambition and goals, they need to figure it out for themselves...or not. I'm sure he knows what is at stake but if you're just being straight-forward then just tell him how you feel and what your expectations are, then drop it...you can't change someone else, you can't make them into the "perfect man", but again, like most women...you'll need to figure that out for yourself. This is not about just you, this is not about just your needs. You twist it in a way that seems "supportive" but you're really just worried about your own situation and desires...which is fair, but don't try and change someone or "fix" them to get it, everyone has to address their own issues, you cannot force it...but it doesn't mean you have to be apart of it. Edited February 21, 2014 by Ninjainpajamas 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CC12 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Again, if he wants to continue staying home and doing what he's doing, I only ask that we talk about it and name it, own it. He is so avoidant that I don't know if that's what he wants. What he wants seems obvious to me. All signs point to him wanting to continue staying home and doing what he's doing. He's not looking for work, he's not even talking about looking for work in the future, and he's admitted to you that he has no goals. You said, "he's just not the kind of guy to naturally make plans and have goals." You seem to understand this about him, so I'm not sure why do you need him to name it and "own it"? It seems unlikely that he'll come right out and say, "I don't want a job and I intentionally have no plans for the future." Just accept this about him and plan your own life accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thank you all for your advice! This is a great website comprised of great people. Your comments helped define the problem. This is the most committed relationship I've been in. For the most part its very satisfying. Really what I am trying to do is reconcile our differences; how does one deal with knowing there are some needs a partner simply can't satisfy? I'm seeing many posts on here about sex and differences in sex needs. Its the same sort of thing here. One of the ways a relationship is defined for me is a couple making plans together. He's just not that guy. I don't think breaking up with him is the answer. Yeah, I'll find some other guy who I have some other difference with. I think the fix is I just need to vent and complain when I get frustrated. This site has been great for that. I came home to a loving man who once again did all sorts of wonderful things for me over the day. I've got it pretty good. I just need to complain every once in a while, and since we moved out of state I don't have a social network yet, or anyone other than him to talk to. You guys have showed me that what I need is...you. Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 So he's been pretty down ever since I asked him about the job opening a week ago (which generated the start of this thread). I apologized for asking him about it and told him I never intended to make him feel attacked. I haven't said anything since then, since I know any more I say will bring up another situation like the last one. I feel totally bad seeing him not like himself and feel like it's my fault. It's like something has died. I recognize now that he is who he is and he's not going to be ambitious, but now I just feel bad in that every time I look at him, I feel like he still feels like he's being judged by me. Without talking about it, I don't know how to get rid of this feeling. I want to think if I am just patient, he will eventually go back to his regular self. Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) A man who has no goals, no plans, no ambitions, no job and no desire to pursue a job let alone a rewarding career is analogous to a woman who has no motivation or intentions to groom, bathe, stay fit and healthy or try to look pretty and sexy. It's as unattractive and undesirable as you can get. This situation is going to work itself out in a short period of time. In just a matter of days, weeks or a couple of months, another guy who is at least as good looking as him, as nice as him and treats you as kindly as him but who does have ambition, goals and a job will come along and you will be out the door in a matter of days. If you want to play fair, tell your BF that in terms he will understand. Then he will have been warned and won't have anyone to blame but himself when it happens. Edited February 26, 2014 by oldshirt 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ZMM Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 He sounds lazy and pathetic. What exactly does he do with his time? And how does he live, who is supporting him? You? Government? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 In this economy I can sort of understand that he doesn't have a job but has he actively looked for one? If he's not sending out resumes, constantly on job websites or otherwise taking an active role to improve his situation, he's not likely to. Unless you are prepared to be the sole breadwinner, leave now before he drains you dry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OpheliaSong Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 He is a stay at home bf.....new job title. If you are bringing home the bacon, he needs to do all the housework, errands and any gardening. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 He is a stay at home bf.....new job title. If you are bringing home the bacon, he needs to do all the housework, errands and any gardening. I had one of those once. As much as I loved my husband there are days when I miss that guy. Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I feel like he still feels like he's being judged by me. Without talking about it, I don't know how to get rid of this feeling. I want to think if I am just patient, he will eventually go back to his regular self. He feels like he's being judged by you because he's judging himself. He has no ambitions, no passions, no purpose, and no cajones. He is a lump on a log, doing nothing and being nothing. He feels crappy about himself for it, and knowing that YOU know how spineless he is is only making him feel crappier. I don't believe that shutting up and letting him do nothing is the answer. Sure, you don't want to badger him about getting a job, but you do want to help him make his life better. Rather than tiptoeing around being careful not to say the words "job", "income", "paycheck" or "career" out of fear of causing him to have a panic attack, you need to address this straight on. Offer your help. Get more information about what he is feeling and why. And if he won't come up with a plan due to anxiety, he needs to get to a therapist. It's not about him bringing in his share or anything. It's about his life having some purpose and direction. Link to post Share on other sites
darkmoon Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) "I can't help" you say do not pay for a boyf, if he was your husband down on his luck, okay, I think he will ask you to lend him money, seen it often in life, unappreciated, unpaid, big arguments over it, like his bad status is something you must pretend away, do not move from dating him, he sounds iffy, a moocher in the making Edited February 26, 2014 by darkmoon Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 He has investments and I've made very clear to him that I will never pay differently than 50/50. I think he's been quite concerned that a woman would mooch off of him. I'm just not into any mooching, period, which is probably part of his appeal for me. He has not applied or looked for any sort of job since he graduated. Before we moved for him to go back to school he was working full-time to supplement his income. About a month ago he mentioned an old classmate had an opening where he worked. I've insisted that he "be productive" every day, as I admit I wouldn't keep my job if I didn't have to, but I would volunteer or do art or travel. He works on hobbies, plays computer games, shops, does errands and projects for me (everything I ask and then some), and helps his mother. I don't have any problem with what he's doing now, except the lack of ambition isn't attractive and his aversion to talking about plans. What does he want 5 years from now to look like? What should I do with my vacation time that expires in 2 months? As it stands, I'm left making all plans on my own. I'm independent and have been alone for many years, but part of what I view a relationship to be is 2 people making plans together. Now I'm growing concerned about his well-being. I think he does feel insecure and growing bored/anxious/depressed and staying at home isn't building his confidence or ability to deal with the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sandra_Dee Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I am not, will not, and don't have the means to support him financially and he knows that. As it stands now, he spends more money on me than I on him. I can only assume he's being financially responsible because, again,he won't talk about it. Its not about the money, its about communication, choices and decisions. Link to post Share on other sites
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