Marriage in balance

[Bodgerthebadger]

I am really struggling to know how to handle my current situation and need some advice if possible without too much judgement.

 

 

 

I have been married for 18 months and a few months my wife found out that I had cheated on her. I’m 33 and have no kids. She knows the detail but probably not the extent to which it happened. The only reason I withheld this is that she was completely devastated when she found out. to the point of needing to go on medication and missing work for a time. I moved out and we she could barely bring herself to speak to me in the weeks that followed. She agreed to go to counselling which seemed to be working but ultimately failed after just a few sessions – mainly as a result of her being too upset to comprehend things at that time.

 

Fast forward a couple of months and things have calmed down a little. She is less upset about things and we are back on speaking terms. The crazy thing is that she now wants to try again. I had more or less given up on this – I had actually seen more of the person I cheated with and this has ultimately screwed my head more. But as with many on here, it seems like a drug that I can’t give up.

 

My wife and I had numerous issues before we married and probably should have dealt with them before we committed like that. I love her dearly but we had very little intimacy and I succumbed to temptation having resisted for a long time and accepted things. We argued so much because we were not close - she was frustrated by my apathy and I struggled to maintain interest because we were so distant. Crazy I know.

 

The problem I now have is that it’s like I’m almost hurting her all over again. She is offering me to go back and I have stalled on it. I have spent some time with her just as friends and it’s been great but I am scared of returning to the bad ways of arguing and no intimacy especially since counselling couldn’t solve it. Also, crucially, my head has been pulled so far into the affair haze I can’t get the thought of being with my OW out of my head. She is incredibly sexy and knows how to use it – which is what makes her the complete opposite to my wife and gives me what I felt I had been missing. And it has been amazing having that I have to admit.

 

It seems simple that I should just let my wife go and see what happens with OW. However, I can’t shake the feeling that it is a big mistake. I have let my sx drive rule my mind and in every other way I could have had a family and been happy with my wife. And I do still love her despite the bitterness and arguments over the years. And we could probably make it work now we know what the issues have been. My OW is fine with me sorting things out but wants a relationship with me. I know that we would have a great sx life – the thing I was missing – but that might be about it. I know deep down that when it comes to being a nice person who I would want to live with she isn’t a patch on my wife.

 

Anyway, I ask that you don’t judge me, more let me know your thoughts to stop me going insane. I deserve to be on my own and don’t deserve either, I know this. I have been weak and am trying to get strong again and do the right thing for everyone. I think that if the OW was out of the picture I would have a much clearer head. Trouble is I work with her too. I don’t do things by halves.

 

 

 

My head is screwed on all of this and I am just wanting a resolution that I know is going to be right. Please help me with any advice you might have and feel free to hurl abuse if you see fit.

[whichwayisup]

It's clear you love your wife and care about her but you are not 'into' her sexually the way a husband should be into his wife and you're not in love with her either.

 

18 months of marriage and you've cheated. Unless you feel she's worth fighting for and you fix yourself (affair proof you and get boundaries, fix the issues between you) so you won't cheat again on her in the future, then possibly you can make a go of this.

 

But honestly, (and I usually don't advocate divorce right off the bat) it seems what you two have isn't worth saving. The intimacy and deep love isn't there.

 

You are wanting someone else and it'll take a long time for you to let go of that OW, you still want her but know it's wrong to be with her. Your wife can't compete with that. that fantasy and affair feelings that you're addicted to.

[Bodgerthebadger]

Thanks for the reply.

 

We have been together for ten years so i dont expect huge amounts of passion but you are correct that it isn't what it should be. It is true that we have very different ideas on intimacy - she is now saying she wants more in our relationship but I fear that she is forcing herself to be something she isn't. For me the lack of sex has lead to the lack of deep love.

 

Its a shame but it is a long while since I felt that way about her and the OW has just filled that void. I think I feel huge remorse and guilt about how significantly it effected her and wish I could make it better but that isn't love is it.

 

Having said all that I can't imagine growing old with anyone else and I married her with that intention - as I said before I succumbed to weakness hoping it would just work.

 

I read someone else say on here that if something is missing it will always be missing - I dont know if that is v pessimistic or just very true...

[Poppygoodwill]

I think it could be true, it depends on the reasons it was missing in the first place.

 

YOu hit the nail on the head though when you said the OW is clouding your thinking.

 

My advice is get her out of the picture. The main effort here is your marriage. You have to sort that out as your priority. If you try, and go back, or if you give up and move on. Either way, that's the thing you should focus on.

 

Sounds like the OW will be there on the sidelines waiting if you decide to leave, though seems to me you already know that it's a relationship wtih limited appeal in the long run.

 

Still, get rid of her right now so you can focus on the important bit. Let the rest work itself out.

[Bodgerthebadger]

Its very hard to shift the ow as its been a fairly significant affair and when I think of sex I only think of her now.

 

But I need to if its to stand any chance you're right.

 

The ow and I have a fair amount in common and we get on well but I do doubt her as a serious partner as I feel she can be a little cold and thoughtless (says me, I know)

[Poppygoodwill]

See, you're right back to thinking and talking about the OW when the focus should be on the marriage!

 

Even if it's only to focus on it long enough to end it properly and as cleanly as possible without doing even more damage to this person who you once cared very deeply about.

 

Seriously - you cheated on your wife and devastated her - you *owe* her the respect and care to at least front up, focus and do what's necessary. Put her first in this time at least, before you push her aside.

 

IMHO you're being incredibly selfish at the moment.

[Bodgerthebadger]

You are right - I am being selfish - it is like I know the best thing for me and everyone is to focus on my wife and sort things but I can't stop myself being drawn to the ow.

 

I think I probably know that things have gone too far with both of them to sort the sensible solution so I am just sat in the middle not making any decision. My wife has called my bluff and basically given an ultimatum of come home, change and we might get somewhere or else that's it. I need to decide if I should do that or not today - that is my deadline.

 

The trouble is that I sm so conflicted I can't bring myself to end it with either it is like I want one of them to decide for me which I know is just stupid. I'm even at the point of writing pro and con lists now like its that easy to work out.

 

I do owe my wife more respect, I clearly didn't show her any when I cheated and now I'm being no better. I have become someone I dont want to be but am finding it hard to stop. How do I slap myself out of it and wake up?

[TaraMaiden]

.... How do I slap myself out of it and wake up?

Confess to your wife you're still as involved with the OW as ever, and you can't give her up.

Hopefully, she will 'slap you' with divorce papers.

 

Heck of a wake-up call.

 

Mashed potatoes indeed.....

[Bodgerthebadger]

Hardly minimising the pain there is it?

 

And for now I am not with ow as I have told her to back off.

 

My wife is extremely sensitive and had an extreme reaction when she found out about things. Further stuff would not be good so I am trying to be gentle with it even though that seems extremely hypocritical.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh quit projecting....

 

You might have asked the OW to 'back off' but you're doing nothing to minimise her effect on your relationship with your wife.

 

I believe it to be a fact that some people find it impossible to remain in a monogamous relationship, no matter what convention and programming expects of them.

It's possible you are one of that kind.

 

You need to decide whether to stay married and just be with your wife - exactly as you promised her, in front of witnesses, remember? - or cut her loose, set her free and let her find someone who wants to do just that.

[beach]

Hardly minimising the pain there is it?

 

And for now I am not with ow as I have told her to back off.

 

My wife is extremely sensitive and had an extreme reaction when she found out about things. Further stuff would not be good so I am trying to be gentle with it even though that seems extremely hypocritical.

 

You knew you hurt your W terribly but you continued seeing your OW after your wife was "deeply effected"?

 

And your solution is to keep screwing the OW?

 

That is selfish.

 

Your W deserves a man that considers her feelings. It's not you.

 

Divorce and be with your OW - you're a match.

 

A marriage is in balance when there's equal giving and receiving and it's effortless.

 

Your M is completely out of balance because you are a taker.

[Bodgerthebadger]

I believe in monogomy - I was faithful for 9 years - it was a bad set of circumstances that led to this. Much of what I have said is abbreviated - in the counselling we did go to it became clear that both sides had made errors albeit ultimately mine was the worst.

 

I agree that I just need to decide and focus. It has been extremely difficult to do that whilst working in the same office as the ow and I am actively trying to leave if I can asap.

 

I have continually made mistakes and been weak and yes my wife deserves better. When she kicked me out and wouldnt speak to me for six weeks I did go to the easiest place for comfort and again with hindsight that was stupid. There are none so blind as they that will not see as the cliche goes...

 

When I speak about a bad set or circumstances I mean that my wife and I were arguing, in a bad place with our families, not intimate and spending time apart. Throw into that mix a woman who was actively willing to seduce a married man and continued to want him and chase him with him having a weak personality and this is what you get. I'm not excusing myself here, just being honest and admitting I'm not a good person right now.

[TaraMaiden]

I believe in monogomy - I was faithful for 9 years -

BS.

You evidently don't.

Otherwise there wouldn't BE an 'OW'...

 

it was a bad set of circumstances that led to this.

 

So many people have 'a bad set of circumstances' but remain faithful.

 

You CHOSE to get your leg over.

You didn't have to, but your emotions ruled your head, and you went ahead and voluntarily had an affair.

nobody MADE you do it.

 

You decided to do it.

Don't put the blame outside of yourself.

This was your choice.

Nobody - including this seducing woman - held a gun to your head.

You hold her responsible for seducing you, but that's what the 'No' word was invented for.

 

 

No....?

 

It's not a question of being either good or bad.

 

It's a question of owning your actions 100%, not blaming anyone else, or apportioning reasons and excuses.

You did this.

It can't be un-done.

But you need to do what's right, now, Right Now.

If not for you, then definitely your poor wife.

[Bodgerthebadger]

I am not justifying my actions at all - I was wrong I know that. All I mean is that things dont happen in isolation - circumstances can conspire if you have a disposition to act as I have.

 

The decision for me now is about whether the marriage can be saved, if I can buck my ideas up and be the man she wants me to be. I do feel that I need to completely change but there is an underlying question as to why I did it - I'm not saying I was right - but I do believe that people should be faithful so in going off the rails from that view it must mean that I was struggling to know right from wrong. I'm not a bad person I just got caught up in something very stupid. And I know I was wrong now.

 

So you advocate that I contact her, tell her its over and she is better off without me? If so, is that on the basis that she is better off without me because I can't commit?

 

I am erring towards doing that now just to get a resolution. But for me the "right" thing to do would be to make every possible effort to save the marriage and try to make up for it if I can. I do want to put things right if I can but now I question whether that is right for her as a result of me being useless.

[TaraMaiden]

I am not justifying my actions at all - I was wrong I know that. All I mean is that things dont happen in isolation - circumstances can conspire if you have a disposition to act as I have.

I agree. But the word 'no' has always been in your vocabulary.

This train-wreck happened because you knew you were running out of control and simply omitted to apply the brakes.

 

The decision for me now is about whether the marriage can be saved, if I can buck my ideas up and be the man she wants me to be. I do feel that I need to completely change but there is an underlying question as to why I did it

 

This is getting to the nitty-gritty.

 

The BLAME for the affair lies entirely, completely and solely with you.

 

The RESPONSIBILITY - for the STATE of your marriage is to be divided equally, 50/50, between you and your wife.

You are both 100% responsible for your 50% shares of the relationship.

Something went desperately awry.

THIS - is what you need to focus on and address, for the future to have any hope.

Your wife must own her RESPONSIBILITY for any breakdown which occurred, although your personal reaction to this situation, is all yours to own.

 

 

----

 

So you advocate that I contact her, tell her its over and she is better off without me? If so, is that on the basis that she is better off without me because I can't commit?

I'm talking about ending it with your wife AS WELL as your AP.

I really don't believe you can ever commit to your wife again, 100%, without ever being able to look at her and not remember this.

It will affect you, and how you interact with her, for the remainder of your days.

on good days, you will want tacit forgiveness and trust, and the guilt will consume you.

on bad days, you will resent sacrificing your fun, and AP to remain in a marriage you're really - if we're honest - not completely committed to, even now.

 

I am erring towards doing that now just to get a resolution. But for me the "right" thing to do would be to make every possible effort to save the marriage and try to make up for it if I can. I do want to put things right if I can but now I question whether that is right for her as a result of me being useless.

 

Sorry. The best resolution, even if it doesn't seem so right now, is to end this farcical situation, release your wife and COME CLEAN as to why - I strongly suggest you do this with a Counsellor present - and cut the ties that bind, stifle, choke and imprison you both.

 

Sometimes, the best thing to do is to recognise it for what it is.

 

Over.

[Bodgerthebadger]

Thank you I do appreciate your comments.

 

I think my wife does now see the shared responsibility for the state of the relationship which she didn't didn't for a long time. It has constantly been put at my door for years and it has taken this for her to see one or two things about her behaviour. It is really this acknowledgement that is behind me hesitating to just end it as I suppose it gives a glimmer of hope that things might change. And I did need that to create the view that it might be savable as its the first time she's said that she needs to change too.

 

I would absolutely never say I would go back unless I was 100% committed to her now. So if I did make that choice it would be me going NC and leaving my job asap. It is the only way - I would have to get complete control of my feelings and focus them on my wife. I do believe that if I focused I could do it.

 

If I felt my wife could handle me coming clean and I made the decision to end it I would. As it is now she is reconciled with the fact that it probably isn't going to work out. She has already been to the APs house I dont want her going down that route and doing something silly. It will not help her to know at this stage - it will just put her backwards and hit her confidence further. I would rather have an ammicable ending and let her move on more quickly.

 

I do still love my wife despite of all I have done and I believe she feels the same. Its whether it is deep enough and strong enough on both sides to face this together and this is the $64000 question...

[TaraMaiden]

You have to decide, each of you, in front of a counsellor, on a scale of 1 - 10, how much you really, REALLY want to fix this.

 

It requires brutal and transparent honesty.

Each write a figure down, hand it to your counsellor, and let them look.

 

I'll tell you now, if the figures are a scale apart, or don't match, you're in for a lot of work in the long haul.

 

Because you are responsible for your 50%, 100% and you are committed 100% to making it work.

 

She's responsible for her 50%, 100% - but let's just say that she feels she can only give 80%.

 

YOU CAN'T MAKE UP HER 20% SHORTFALL.

 

And with the figures reversed, she couldn't make up yours....

 

if ever you both needed to be 'on the same page' it is now.

if you're not, or you feel it's unsustainable, then the $64k question is already answered.

 

Deal or no deal?

[Bodgerthebadger]

Yes agreed once again good advice. I think now is the time for honesty and also to act on our heads not our hearts. I think she wants to continue based on the heart feeling love but part of our issue has been that the practical side of her doesn't act on that and show 100% commitment to the cause - hence some of the difficult we have had - she says she wants to be with me but day to day life has been full of unnecessary bad feeling.

 

One key area I haven't mentioned is that her family have been heavily involved in some of our issues in the past. I do worry that it might not just be down to sort out with her but also them - it is another factor that weighs heavily on my thoughts on this.

 

I spoke to my father about things earlier and he gave his opinion along the lines that even if I went back and patched it up and we had a honeymoon period, that things would be back where they were soon enough as we are too different and there is now too much bad feeling. Not sure he is right but I do trust his life experience.

 

How important do you believe counselling is? I felt it was getting somewhere but she didn't - I did feel that maybe our counsellor wasn't the greatest. Have you ever used it? It felt a little like we were drowning and the counsellor was describing the sea. But there is only so much you can do in an hour a week I guess.

[TaraMaiden]

....

How important do you believe counselling is? I felt it was getting somewhere but she didn't - I did feel that maybe our counsellor wasn't the greatest. Have you ever used it? It felt a little like we were drowning and the counsellor was describing the sea. But there is only so much you can do in an hour a week I guess.

 

I used to work with a Relationships Counselling organisation, and began their in-house course on qualifying as a counsellor for them, but sadly, this was interrupted by an international move....

 

A lot of people have a misconception about counselling, in that they expect it to help make repairs.

Counselling is not designed to necessarily keep people together.

It's designed to provide a safe environment for people to talk without resorting to anger, recriminations, argument or back-pedalling/resurrecting historical issues.

It puts people on a level playing field and facilitates effective and constructive communication.

 

But a good Counsellor will steer, guide and suggest. Hopefully, they'll never dictate, decide and above all (most importantly) judge.

 

if you're not happy with your counsellor, tell your wife, and find a new one.

It's not wrong to shop around.

In fact, it's vital you BOTH find someone you feel comfortable with AND who can put you both at your ease.

If you find another one, and your WIFE isn't happy, it's her prerogative to also say so.

A counsellor may also suggest you continue discussion at home, but will guide you in methods of Effective Communication, and perhaps suggest you allocate one hour at home, for doing so.

I remember we used to advise people to use a Speaker/Listener technique (you may well need to enlist the assistance of a good freind who is mutual and can be impartial).

We also advised that if they felt discussions getting out of control, they stop, and resume during Counselling, but to keep notes of whatever they talked about and what happened.

 

This made people accountable.

 

Oh, and your Dad?

 

I like him....

[Bodgerthebadger]

So you know a bit about it then!

 

The last time we went to counselling we left with my wife in tears and stating that it was over so we never went back. I did feel that the hour limit was very annoying as you would feel you were getting somewhere and then that would be the hour up. I felt to turn us onto the street with that being the position because time was up was a sign that our session hadn't been handled very well as the counsellor steered us to that point in the last ten minutes of the session.

 

There was definitely some good advice in there though and I think we would be in a better position now if my wife had wanted to stick it out. I guess that is an example of how the emotional reaction might outweigh things when we are trying to fix it - I guess she just couldn't face the raking over of things at that time.

 

Yes sometimes the older generation know what they're on about. I think he does have some prejudices as he sees how miserable I am at the moment and guess he kind of blames us both for that. But ultimately he just wants us to be happy.

[TaraMaiden]

So you know a bit about it then!

yeah... a little.

I will say that my discussing things on this board is hugely different to sitting with a couple and helping them through the obstacles.... here, it tends to be much more 'cut and dried' whereas in Counselling - with 2 people to deal with simultaneously, and F2F, things are understandably very different.

 

The last time we went to counselling we left with my wife in tears and stating that it was over so we never went back. I did feel that the hour limit was very annoying as you would feel you were getting somewhere and then that would be the hour up. I felt to turn us onto the street with that being the position because time was up was a sign that our session hadn't been handled very well as the counsellor steered us to that point in the last ten minutes of the session.

Yes, that can be very awkward... but a Counsellor will often have several appointments in one day - even some impromptu visitors stopping by on the off-chance.... so juggling timing with tact, can be extremely difficult...

we often over-ran by as much as 15 - 20 minutes on occasions. Trying to find a suitable and appropriate 'pause' to call a halt and 'let's go on next week' can be a challenge!

 

There was definitely some good advice in there though and I think we would be in a better position now if my wife had wanted to stick it out. I guess that is an example of how the emotional reaction might outweigh things when we are trying to fix it - I guess she just couldn't face the raking over of things at that time.

Any point proposing counselling to her, again, now?

or has that ship sailed?

[Bodgerthebadger]

Agreed that being on a board is very different. You only get the abbreviated history and the basic facts. There are two sides to every story and you need both to fully understand it. Ive not really put full detail on here as to our challenges before this happened. The fact that the counsellor questioned why we got married when things were as they were back then probably says a lot.

 

I think she might be open to going back. But I think she is more at a point of giving me an ultimatum at the moment. Come back now and work on things or just forget it. In my mind things had been so bad that i dont want to just to back with nothing changing. That was why I wanted to wait and maybe do the counselling first for a while but she didn't want that.

 

I think that she thinks that things will just be alright if I come back but I would probably think back to my dads comments on that one. I suppose at least it shows she wants to try?

[TaraMaiden]

..... The fact that the counsellor questioned why we got married when things were as they were back then probably says a lot.

 

I think ...she is more at a point of giving me an ultimatum at the moment. Come back now and work on things or just forget it. In my mind things had been so bad that i dont want to just to back with nothing changing.....

I think that she thinks that things will just be alright if I come back ...... I suppose at least it shows she wants to try?

No, to my mind, on the basis of what you have revealed here, on forum I think she's either hoping to brush it under the carpet and hope you can both eventually pretend it never happened, OR you're both going to be aware of the full herd of Elephants in the room, but she will only discuss it in inculpative terms....

[Bodgerthebadger]

I think you're correct - she has the conclusion that she wants to be with me so will do what it takes even if it means not facing reality.

 

I suppose that might work for some people - isn't counselling partly teaching you how to forgive and forget the past? But it isn't a recipe for knowing we will have a stronger relationship in the future especially knowing how sensitive she is as a person.

[TaraMaiden]

I think you're correct - she has the conclusion that she wants to be with me so will do what it takes even if it means not facing reality.

 

I suppose that might work for some people - isn't counselling partly teaching you how to forgive and forget the past? But it isn't a recipe for knowing we will have a stronger relationship in the future especially knowing how sensitive she is as a person.

yes, Counselling advises that it's the best route, but IMO, forgetting the past is impossible.

I hate the phrase 'forgive and forget'. One is possible, the other a pretty damn hard nut to crack.

 

People have memories for a reason. It helps us not repeat mistakes for one thing, and recognise signals for another.... But forgiveness has to be mutual, and people have to know how to forgive themselves, as well as others.

 

Retaining resentment, even after forgiveness has ostensibly been bestowed, isn't moving on at all...

 

If she is to move forward at all, she has to tackle this hyper-sensitivity. Though I don't necessarily call it that.

I'd refer more to it as Low self-esteem/image, lack of self-worth, and possibly dependency....