Interracial/International/Interage Marriage

[Jon Tenzo]

Hi Guys,

 

I haven't posted on here for quite a while but have given some of you advice in the past. Wondering if you could return the favor as I am now in need of some serious advice

 

My decision at this point is uncertain but I am heavily leaning towards not getting married at this juncture. However, the consequences for either action will be quite severe. I may never be able to see this woman ever again. And potentially I may never meet a woman I am compatible with again either. People constantly make the excuse that "oh you are young and have time". My father is turning 50 years old and still hasn't found the right woman after multiple tries. Partly his fault but this means the odds are pretty slim. I know several of his peers in the same boat. My generation is not faring any better. 90% of my male friends are either single or divorced.

 

So getting into it - I have dated a Japanese woman 15 years my senior for going on 2 years now and we've been living together for 1 year. I just broke the news to my mother who is 20 years my senior and naturally she is not pleased. My father doesn't care and is just glad I found a good woman.

 

So here are the problems in a nutshell with this situation:

 

Marriage - It seems that getting married is the only way to keep her in the country as an attorney advised us. She is on the last year of an H1-B visa which cannot be renewed. O1 is not an option. She would have to spend one year in Japan and come back. At her age it would be difficult to find employers interested in her field in this country, and interviewing from abroad would not be a small feat. Since she is about 42 it will be difficult for any employer (which is why her current employer cannot sponsor her) to sponsor her and get her through the application process because her skill is not "exceptional" or "rare" enough. She works in Graphic Design/Illustration/Web Design.

 

The problem with getting married is we only have a short time frame for this to occur. However, I am concerned about my liability. What if her current employer lays her off? I will be responsible for paying all the bills and that is not something I can manage right now. Granted she would not expect me to (she could go back to Japan temporarily and just come back for interviews) but technically in the legal sense I would be obligated. However, we could get a prenuptial agreement. On top of all of this - I have severe doubts we can pass the marriage interviews that Immigration will set up - Mostly because they will find this relationship suspicious from the start due to our age differences. However, our feelings for each other are indeed real and I do not want her to leave.

 

Age difference - We have discussed this as I prefer older women in general, but this is a more significant age difference. There is some concern will I be able to take care of her if need be when she's 67 and I'm 52? She is in perfect health now but you just never know what could happen in the future. She is open to me having a purely sexual relationship with a younger woman if there were to be a mid-life crisis of some sort. However, that is not the biggest concern here.

 

Time - The problem is I have only known her for 2 years and she has only known me for that long as well. People change over time and I am not sure this is enough time to determine if Marriage is the best thing for us right now.

 

If you have any other questions about the situation please feel free to ask. Wanted to keep it as short and sweet as possible. The thing is I would feel comfortable continuing to cohabitate with her and see if this could work out. As of right now I've done my research (contrary to my mother and her friend's opinion) and I have no liability as NY State has not had common law marriage observance since 1938: Is there any Common Law Marriage in New York? - Avvo.com

 

The most painful part of this process has been the accusations that are typical: "She's just looking for a Green Card". I am hurt at the fact that they think so little of me that I would not consider this in the beginning of the relationship. They think I am really that gullible. Perhaps I could be wrong but they have essentially accused me of being an idiot and not doing my due diligence.

 

Some members of my family (not naming names) only can reference the bad stories they have seen or heard from other relatives marrying foreigners and never so much as Googled the topic looking for.gov's and other reputable sources for accurate statistics as well as any blogs on the subject from law offices.

 

I am sincerely hurt by these accusations not because it is not possible - But is that really how much they think of me? You have known me since I was born and yet you don't know me at all. I think whether I get married or not this is not a wound that will ever heal. I will never look at my family the same way again. Perhaps this situation was supposed to occur so that I could learn what true human nature is. This is why I never want to have children. They are selfish beings just trying to live vicariously through me and trying to make my decisions their own.

[jwi71]

 

So getting into it - I have dated a Japanese woman 15 years my senior for going on 2 years now and we've been living together for 1 year. I just broke the news to my mother who is 20 years my senior and naturally she is not pleased. My father doesn't care and is just glad I found a good woman.

 

I agree with your father. Age doesn't necessarily matter and 15 years is not out of the ordinary for an Asian woman. Please note, I'm no expert...but I have lived for the better part of 10 years in Asia...and the story is not uncommon. Please don't think I'm an expert on Asian women or being stereotypical. I just want to point out in my experience...15 years is not unusual in what I saw. Some of them made it, others not.

 

 

Marriage - It seems that getting married is the only way to keep her in the country as an attorney advised us. She is on the last year of an H1-B visa which cannot be renewed. O1 is not an option. She would have to spend one year in Japan and come back. At her age it would be difficult to find employers interested in her field in this country, and interviewing from abroad would not be a small feat. Since she is about 42 it will be difficult for any employer (which is why her current employer cannot sponsor her) to sponsor her and get her through the application process because her skill is not "exceptional" or "rare" enough. She works in Graphic Design/Illustration/Web Design.

 

In the absence of the time pressure, would you marry here within one year?

And whatever answer that is - that's what you should do.

 

The problem with getting married is we only have a short time frame for this to occur. However, I am concerned about my liability. What if her current employer lays her off? I will be responsible for paying all the bills and that is not something I can manage right now. Granted she would not expect me to (she could go back to Japan temporarily and just come back for interviews) but technically in the legal sense I would be obligated. However, we could get a prenuptial agreement. On top of all of this - I have severe doubts we can pass the marriage interviews that Immigration will set up - Mostly because they will find this relationship suspicious from the start due to our age differences. However, our feelings for each other are indeed real and I do not want her to leave.

 

You tell us...after 2 years...is she that type of woman?

And, imo, it would be hard to prosecute for visa fraud since you have known and dated for two years prior to the marriage and visa. Meaning, your fears do not appear sound to me. With my first wife, I did the whole fiance visa...we had dated for years, she went home, we decided to get M...we had zero issue because of that past (dating for like 4 years before marriage). Of course, and it seems you have, retain a lawyer and get legal advice.

 

Age difference - We have discussed this as I prefer older women in general, but this is a more significant age difference. There is some concern will I be able to take care of her if need be when she's 67 and I'm 52? She is in perfect health now but you just never know what could happen in the future. She is open to me having a purely sexual relationship with a younger woman if there were to be a mid-life crisis of some sort. However, that is not the biggest concern here.

 

W/o regard to the woman...you aren't sounding ready for M to me.

 

Time - The problem is I have only known her for 2 years and she has only known me for that long as well. People change over time and I am not sure this is enough time to determine if Marriage is the best thing for us right now.

 

Even stronger sense you aren't ready to marry her.

 

If you have any other questions about the situation please feel free to ask. Wanted to keep it as short and sweet as possible. The thing is I would feel comfortable continuing to cohabitate with her and see if this could work out. As of right now I've done my research (contrary to my mother and her friend's opinion) and I have no liability as NY State has not had common law marriage observance since 1938: Is there any Common Law Marriage in New York? - Avvo.com

 

You know...M isnt something you need to gear up for like armed combat...which is how this strikes me. I'm not saying dont take prudent steps...I'm saying you are taking so many steps as to lead me to believe you are not ready.

 

The most painful part of this process has been the accusations that are typical: "She's just looking for a Green Card". I am hurt at the fact that they think so little of me that I would not consider this in the beginning of the relationship. They think I am really that gullible. Perhaps I could be wrong but they have essentially accused me of being an idiot and not doing my due diligence.

 

**** those people. Your life and M, not theirs.

(I heard that too). Except I actually told them to **** off.

But that's me.

 

In short, just based on your post, you don't sound ready for M.

Too many fears and worries in you. Not a pejorative...just an observation.

[Poppygoodwill]

I am married to a citizen from another country and it's complicated. We met while both working in a country neither of us are from, and we married a year after knowing one another in order to move together to yet another country where he had his next assignment and it's actually illegal to liv together out of marriage (middle east). So there was a strange pressure on us that came from being stuck between borders. He's also 9 years older than I am.

 

But here's the difference: I would have married him anyhow even if we lived in the same country....and I knew it from early on.

 

So I think more important here than the complications around visas and so on, is that you are not entirely sure of your feelings.

 

Try to separate it out: if there was no visa pressure, would you marry her in the next few months. If the word "no" springs to your mind, then don't do it just because.

 

What about a third option? She has to go back to Japan...why not go and live with her there for a year. Take a leave of absence, explore her country and culture, and give yourselves more time.

 

If it's worth considering marriage, and it's worth living together in NY, then surely it's worth the time and trouble to see hwo it goes in Japan?

Edited February 19, 2014 by Poppygoodwill

[Jon Tenzo]

Thanks for your responses. Japan is not financially an option at this point (long-term) unless I were able to work there which cannot happen at the moment. Especially given this shaky economy I still need to establish myself as a professional in my field fully.

 

I do have many concerns but I am just naturally a worrier and pessimistic. It has nothing to do with her. However, I can see a future with her and marriage. I am just concerned that I may being influenced by the current circumstances and moving too quickly. There are some intricacies with the law I would need to understand in order to protect myself.

 

As you may see on this forum people are in love for years and all of a sudden when things don't work out they turn Jekyll and Hyde. I would hope this would not happen but you never know. Just trying to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

As of early this morning I have changed my mind after we have talked and will definitely need more time to think about this. We are meeting with the lawyer this week and apparently have until the summer to decide.

[BetheButterfly]

Thanks for your responses. Japan is not financially an option at this point (long-term) unless I were able to work there which cannot happen at the moment. Especially given this shaky economy I still need to establish myself as a professional in my field fully.

 

I do have many concerns but I am just naturally a worrier and pessimistic. It has nothing to do with her. However, I can see a future with her and marriage. I am just concerned that I may being influenced by the current circumstances and moving too quickly. There are some intricacies with the law I would need to understand in order to protect myself.

 

As you may see on this forum people are in love for years and all of a sudden when things don't work out they turn Jekyll and Hyde. I would hope this would not happen but you never know. Just trying to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

As of early this morning I have changed my mind after we have talked and will definitely need more time to think about this. We are meeting with the lawyer this week and apparently have until the summer to decide.

 

I married a wonderful man from Ecuador. Before I did though, my parents met him and grilled him to death with questions. They wanted to make sure he was marrying me for love and not for a green card. He completely understood and didn't have a problem. My Mom also wanted to make sure he wasn't a "macho" and he passed the test!

 

We are perfect together!!! We have been married for almost 3 years and have know each other for 4 years. It didn't take us long at all to decide to marry, because we both knew what we want and have similar goals in life, and became best friends very quickly. We both decided to love each other 'till death do us part.' Love is not just a feeling after all; it's a decision and action!!! We fell 'in love' when we met face to face for the first time, but we decided to love and commit to each other, and that is a very important decision... a daily one!

 

About your issue with her age, my husband is 5 days younger than me, but age doesn't matter to us. People can get hurt or in accidents at any age, and part of true love is loving people even if accidents happen. I have no problem with the thought of supporting my husband if he gets hurt, and he has no problem with the thought of supporting me if I get hurt. While of course neither of us want to get hurt, we talked about this before getting married, because the future is uncertain.

 

I personally think it's important for you to evaluate if you truly love this lady and you truly have what it takes (the strength, character and integrity) to commit with her and take care of her, and vise versa. She needs to evaluate if she truly loves you and has what it takes (the strength, character and integrity) to commit with you and take care of you.

 

If not, then don't marry her. Also, I personally think it's best not to marry her just so she will stay in the USA. So, the immigration papers should not even be considered, except for if you are willing to help her if she loses her job. That's important. My Dad supported my Mom for around 20 years, as well as his 4 daughters (including me) as we grew up. After her kids grew up, my Mom started her own business and is now just finishing college (and I am so proud of her), but I am so proud of my Dad for having the strength and integrity to commit to raising a family and taking great care of Mom while she was taking care of their children!

 

So, what are your goals in life? What do you want to do? Is this lady a part of your goals, or not?

[Jon Tenzo]

She is definitely part of my plan but I am not in the financially optimal position to support her if she loses her job. I have lots of student loan debt which I'm trying to pay down. However, today she has reassured me she has other options even if she gets laid off her full-time job she currently has.

 

I am currently looking into prenuptial agreements which could limit my liability. She is not opposed to it as I would also like to protect her from any student loan issues as well.

[Poppygoodwill]

She is definitely part of my plan but I am not in the financially optimal position to support her if she loses her job. I have lots of student loan debt which I'm trying to pay down. However, today she has reassured me she has other options even if she gets laid off her full-time job she currently has.

 

I am currently looking into prenuptial agreements which could limit my liability. She is not opposed to it as I would also like to protect her from any student loan issues as well.

 

Okay, so you get a pr-nup that protects you from her claiming your money, but I don't think a pre-nup can eliminate your liability as far as the government is concerned....if we marry foreigners we have to be prepared to support them so they don't become a burden on the system in the first five years or whatever it is.

 

I just think it's strange that you're more concerned about not having to support her if things don't go as planned, than you are about being happy with her and taking care of one another.

 

There are no guarantees in life. If you marry her and she falls ill and can't work, are you going to be reluctant to support her? If YOU lose your job, will she point to the pre-nup and say, well, you don't want to help me so I don't want to help you? This is not a firm basis for marriage.

[Jon Tenzo]

The pre-nup is not to protect me from her it is to protect me from hungry lawyers and friends who may not be satisfied with their own lives.

 

There has been many a woman who separate from the husband and want nothing but are convinced by vulture lawyers and scorned GFs who had their own bad experience to take everything the man has.

 

I do not expect her to take care of me if I fall ill. I know nothing is guaranteed. And I will do my best within my means to care for her if she loses her job. I just don't want to be LEGALLY obligated to. There is a difference.

 

Is this clear now?

 

I am also aware of the affidavit of support mandate. This is something we have talked about but I am primarily concerned with support after separation/divorce. If we both ever go our own separate ways there should be no reason one person owes each other anything. We are together in this but are two complete persons bringing our own unique qualities to the table. We are not two incomplete persons trying to compensate for each other's weaknesses. This is the problem with the old marriage model. It's 2014 not 1955.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Jon Tenzo

[Jon Tenzo]

Either way thanks for your replies. After reviewing the legalities and consulting with a Lawyer over some initial questions I have decided to take the risk and move forward with the marriage. In the event that she loses her job or I lose mine etc we have options. She has an uncle she can stay with in another state ( so she won't violate her green card conditions by staying abroad more than 6 months) and I have relatives with extra space who would be willing to take us in until we get back on our feet. So there is a contingency plan in worst case scenario.

 

You are not guaranteed to meet someone compatible with you ever again in your life. Contrary to the popular belief of many posters here age has nothing to do with this. Time means nothing when it comes to this. Statistically you have all of these Boomers divorced and now single - Haven't they had "enough time" to find "the one" already?

[nais]

You love her but not in love with her- she knew what her Visa would provide her when she was presented with it. Sorry she cannot stay however, do you base your life on a situation or on the fact you love someone. You say you may not meet this future because of your Dad- well your Dad must not have traveled South because I assure you plenty of fish in that sea by far! You must ask yourself if this is for you or for her, if its for her then why will you obligate yourself for her? The worse feeling is to have not waited for the right one only to be with the wrong one when she comes along... At which point getting out of the situation is no longer a viable option without consequences.

[Zimber]

Agree with nais.

 

Sounds like you have some reservations yourself but are a little wrapped up in the drama and feeding off the "saving" aspect of this relationship. It's easy to get all filled up with this ... distraction. I get it, most men (beta types) have fallen into this trap a time or two. I'm not suggesting that it's a trap because your partner is going to take advantage of you in anyway (how would I know? How would anyone know but you?), but do understand it's a way of feeling love by frankly ... finding a way to love yourself.

I'm speculating btw, but do think about his.

 

You're a young good looking fellow (judging by your picture at least). Marriage is difficult when ideal with children. This is not ideal! Your age difference is too significant. It will bother you. It may bother you from time to time already?

 

I applaud you for protecting yourself (for whatever reason you chose). In the worst case (assuming you don't want children), is that you eat a few years. In the best case, you've gained a partner that you will adore.

 

Good luck whatever you decide...

 

Zimber

[kalimata]

Did you consider moving to Japan to be with her?