Love/Marriage/Sex/Rejection

[RevJPC]

The cliché post. Whoa-is-me, my wife doesn’t want sex any more, what do I do?

 

I think that I am the most attentive partner in the world. I do not believe that is the problem. I have said that I sincerely doubt that there are many women who have her problems; that is, a man that cuddles like crazy, completely and totally selfless in regards to sex, would honestly “go-down” on here *any time* she asked (and when she doesn’t!), tell her and show her that I love/cherish/adore/worship her more than anything in the whole world. I feel like I am the luckiest man alive to be with her. She is the best; I would not trade her for all the money in the world.

 

My only complaint is frequency and initiation of sex. She has instigated sex twice in the past year. We make love about 6 times a month. I would like to make love about 40 times a month, but I realize that isn’t an option, so how about 20? We have never had sex without me making sure she has an orgasm. If I can get a second one out of her, I will give it my best shot, she just has such strong first ones, that a second is sometimes difficult.

 

It seems like there are always a million excuses. I try to listen and accept it, but I still feel “rejected” at the end of the night/morning/afternoon, the majority of the time. The times that we do “do it” I feel like she did me a favor. I seem to feel that way even when she gets to come, and I don’t. I am on a medication that about 20% of the time prevents me for achieving orgasm. I am OK with that. I swear that her orgasm is more fulfilling for to me than my own. Making her come, especially hard, makes my day.

 

She tells me that it isn’t me. That I turn her on, yada yada. But that there are always extenuating circumstances. Stress from a million and one different things. Some justifiable in my book, others not.

 

We have looked online, and a doctor even recommended a “Viagra” for women, that is only available on the internet, but we haven’t tried it just yet, but want to. Any experience out there? If you are thinking “You just need to be more understanding/sympathetic/compassionate… save it. I am the master of those things. Cards/flowers/compliments… I am probably the greatest husband to ever live. Of course that definitely has not always been the case… but in recent years it is.

 

 

Any magic spells up your sleeve?

 

Horny and In-Love.

[StartingAgain]

Your lament is shared by the vast majority of married men in this country. Interestingly, when you talk to Asian, most European, and South American men, they don't seem to have this problem. Their women take much better care of them in bed.

 

I don't know why American women are this way. It takes almost nothing to kill their desire. When I was married, I don't know how many times I heard things like "oh for heaven's sake! We just had sex three days ago!" I can understand that a working mother with a husband, a house, and who knows shat all is often going to be too tired to make love. But it isn't just busy working mothers, it's almost every woman whose been married awhile. Sometimes hubby has to bear at least part of the responsibility. Sometimes there is a medical issue. But most of the time, I think it is psychological and social conditioning. It's interesting that somewomen have all these excuses why they aren't interested in sex., and then go out and have an affair. I wonder sometimes if they just aren't interested in their boring old husband.

 

I don't know about these "internet sex enhancers." There is no such thing as an aphrodisiac and that's really what they are talking about. Her doc can check her testosterone level. If it is low there are drugs to help with that. But this is a problem usually seen in peri- and post-menopausal women.

 

Oh, BTW, when my now-ex and I were in marital therapy, the therapist (a woman) told my wife that refusing to have sex with your husband or making him feel guilty about his sexuality is a form of abuse. She said that if her libido was gone and there was no medical cause, then psychotherapy was in order. My ex protested that given what was going on between the two of us prevented her from having any sexual desire for me. The therapist sai that that was true, but she'd already identiffied that my ex's lack of desire preceeded the marital prolems and that it was proobably part of the cause.

[Matilda]

Okay, if we are going with the assumption that you are doing everything right, then I guess it makes me wonder what's going on with your wife. How stressed is she? Do you think she's depressed? Has she had any major life changes lately: death in the family, surgery, illness, elderly parents she has to care for, trouble with the children?

 

I know I didn't really get that I needed to work as hard at keeping the sexual relationship alive in my own marriage until just recently. I thought that was all up to my husband. I also thought that if I wasn't in the mood, that was it, end of story, instead of realizing that there are things I can do to get myself in the mood. I went for a long time thinking of myself as just a mother, and not really a sexual partner to my husband. I've had a big change in my thinking recently. I found the advice on <removed> to be really helpful. Maybe you could print some of it out, and ask your wife to read it?

 

One other thing, do the two of you get enough couple time? Enough conversation and recreation? Just throwing out some ideas for possible problem areas.

[StartingAgain]

Wow, Matilda, great stuff! MarriageBuilders is pretty great isn't it? I tried and tried to get my ex to to MarriageBuilders, but she flat refused. Then that was so much harder than going to a hotel with her lover.

[RevJPC]

Yes, yes, and yes...

 

We have tons of stress in our lives. We are struggling financially, we moved across the country less than 6 months ago, yesterday our dog of 12 years died (we fully considered him a 5th member of our family). All situations are unique, but I think that ours would blow most people away. I was married before her, and my wife died of colon cancer; she was engaged before and he also died of cancer. We were married for 3 years, divorced, and now have been back together for 2. No we don't get enough time "alone" or as just a couple. We have a 7 year old and a almost 5 year old.

 

My wife (I call her that, even though technically we are divorced) is a saint. I could not and would not ever say anything bad about her. She is trying. And given our past and present life... more stress than most small towns. So my "complaint" if you will, is not some kind of "She hasn't made love with me for 6 years, everything is going great, if she doesn't I'm going to leave her"... or anything like that.

 

I just wish that she wanted me, the way I want her. I can except the fact that I am asking to much, if that is the case. But aren't women supposed to be reaching there sexual prime at 30? And I am supposed to be going down hill? Cause that is not the case.

[StartingAgain]

Women reach their prime in their 30's yes. I'd say that if you want sex 40 times per month you are nowhere near going down hill. You say the two of you have sex six times per month. I know that's not enough for you, but it also isn't that bad. There are a lot of married men in their 30s who only get sex six times per year, and a large number of them actually live is sexless marriages, because their wives have told them they are through with sex. Remember way back when you were single and inexperienced and you might get it three times a year (if at all)? You survived then and you'll survive now. Just consider that you and your wife have a storm to weather and continue to love one another. It sounds as if there is so much stress in your lives that you wife may be being severely affected. The two of you must work together to relieve some of the stress and carve out some couple time.

[RevJPC]

I feel like I have an above average understanding of what women *supposedly* want (according to all the information that I read and discuss with other people. It may be a case of the women want a "bad guy"... or to be treated like ****? I did that. Quite frankly, then everything else in the relationship was ****... the sex was dynamite. She was the one complaining that she didn't get it enough, not the other way around. Now that I am a "real good man", she loves me like a brother. And again, let me say... I am not saying that we don't make love. I am saying that I would like to rip her clothes off and go down on her every-night... wake up and do it again. Every night of the week. And I do not think that monotony is the problem. We seem to have great sex, once I can get her to agree... and then to follow through with it. She ALWAYS reaches an orgasm. I wouldn't do it if she didn't (I'm reverse selfish?!?!?!) I just wish that it felt like she wanted it a) somewhere close to as much as I do. Lets be reasonable and say 1/2 as much? And then to not make it seem like she was doing me a favor. She doesn't “complain” she just would rather not do it, I believe.

 

Just tell me. Am I being “unreasonable”? Am I asking for too much?

 

Honestly?

[moimeme]

It's not about you at all. It's about her and what's going on with her. Female libido can be a pain in the butt - stress'll kill it real fast. You've already said you're both real stressed. That is, very likely, the cause. So quit wondering what's wrong with you, listen to StartingAgain, and see what you can do about dealing with the stress.

[guest]

Just a question-does your wife mind if you masturbate? Do you engage in a little self love to take the edge off your ardour?

[Karlise13]

Just want to offer my woman's perspective here....

 

".....Your lament is shared by the vast majority of married men in this country. Interestingly, when you talk to Asian, most European, and South American men, they don't seem to have this problem. Their women take much better care of them in bed.

I don't know why American women are this way. It takes almost nothing to kill their desire....."

 

 

I do find that lack of desire is a common problem amongst my peers.

I think perhaps South American/traditional Asian women are simply less likely to communicate their needs and disatisfactions to their husbands.

 

It may not be that they enjoy sex more, it may simply be more likely that they are less likely to voice their personal feelings.

 

In a traditional context, these are male-dominated cultures. Women have fewer career opportunities, are more likely to embrace the roles of mother and 'keepers of a happy home'

 

Keeping a mistress is also more acceptable in those countries. My BF lived in Japan for 3 years where prostitution was a busy trade. I worked in a restaurant for years with many South American guys who all kept mistresses in the USA while sending money back home to the wife and kids.

 

I remember asking these guys what they would do if they caught their wives fooling around. The idea was unthinkable to them. No good wife would do such a thing; she'd be branded a whore. It was OK for the men, but not the women.

 

SO to compare these various cultures, you must also have some understanding of the roles men and women are expected to play.

 

Trust me, I also knew Mexican, Brazilian and Bolivian women who worked in my restaurant and they were not exactly panting over their husbands a lot of the time. Like many American women, there was a great deal of eye-rolling and grimacing when the topic of sex came up. They were probably just as bored, just less likely to tell their husbands.

[RevJPC]

I have always thought that men were typicaly the ones that "got bored". But I am affraid that is what my love is. I guess I just need help in how to make life/sex exciting for her. She says that the love making that we have is the best in the world, and that we do everything right, but I guess I feel that if that were true, she'd be ripping my clothes off twice a day. She is very "busy", her carreer, is taking care of our family, and it is beyond a full time job. She is the worlds greatest mom, is involved with every aspect of our childrens lives, which is our number one priority. We researched the best school in our area, and moved inorder to be closer to it. We each assist in all the varrious sports, and recreation for our kids. We really are great parrents, and for her it is a full-time job, we have always seen it that way.

 

When I am "stressed" and feel like the world is falling apart. There is nothing that I would like more than to make love and be close with my honey. When she is feeling the same, she'd rather I just kept my distance, or left to go do something.

 

I love her with 100% of me heart. NOTHING will seperate us again, until death do us part (if I have anything to do with it, and I believe she feels the same). But I do know that we have some differences that make life a little less pleasent. Someday, hopefully soon, we will have less stress... then the pendulam will swing the other way, I guess.

 

Rev.

[RevJPC]

Originally posted by guest

Just a question-does your wife mind if you masturbate? Do you engage in a little self love to take the edge off your ardour?

 

No. She isn't against it and I'm not against it either. I do. But I have always felt that one really has very little to do with the other. IMHO

[StartingAgain]

"I do find that lack of desire is a common problem amongst my peers.

I think perhaps South American/traditional Asian women are simply less likely to communicate their needs and disatisfactions to their husbands.

 

It may not be that they enjoy sex more, it may simply be more likely that they are less likely to voice their personal feelings."

 

Asian women are rather passive, even submissive. But I don't think that's the case with most Latin women. The one's I know can be very assertive, even aggressive. They don't take a lot of crap of their men. But they also take very good care of them. I have always found it interesting that Latin couples can fight like cats and dogs, but continue to love one another passionately. An American couple wouldn't stay married long.

 

I used to date an Argentine woman years ago. We are still good friends. She grew up in Argentina and came to the US when she was 18. She's lived here for 25 years, but goes back to Argentina for month-long visits every couple of years. With her I had positively the best sex I've ever had; adventurous, passionate, giving and skilled. She definitely isn't passive. She's a professional woman with two post-grad degrees and is working on her PhD. She loves having sex. I have also been with a Brazilian woman -- same thing; she loved having sex. I've never been with a single American woman who enjoyed sex like these women do. I was talking to her recently and she said "American women have ruined their men. American men scarcely remember that they are men anymore. It's almost as if you guys are ashamed of your masculinity. My American girlfriends all seem to think sex is some sort of a bother and all they do is talk about it as if it is something they have to tolerate or avoid. They put their husbands down because they are horny. I just don't understand it. It's all so sick and twisted. No wonder the divorce rate is so high here."

[Matilda]

You know, I don't know if all women are like this, but if I am tired and stressed, about the last thing I want to do is make love. Having sex, making love, whatever, takes a lot of energy, it's not the physical that's the problem so much (although it's definitely a factor), but the emotional energy that you put into it.

 

And again, I don't know if this is true for all women, but I just don't think it's as easy for women to orgasm as men. I know for me it's a lot of physical and mental exertion , especially with a partner. I think it's great that you want to give her an orgasm every time, but maybe that's too much pressure for her? I don't know, that may just be my own perspective on it.

 

I also think even 20 times a month is an awful lot. That's 5 times a week. I just know with kids that it's hard to make that much time for sex, even when you want to. How many times a month/week would she like to have sex, ideally? I think your expectations may be a little unrealistic. I think the 2 of you need to reach some sort of compromise. I also don't think 6 times a month is that bad, especially since you are under a lot of stress. And it may be that when your life has calmed down a bit, her libido will return.

 

Have you tried just backing off? Not asking for sex at all. You say that she doesn't initiate sex at all, but maybe she just doesn't have to.

 

And again, I'm going to recommend <removed> to you. My husband and I recently did the emotional needs questionnaire, and we both found it to be very helpful. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

[Matilda]

Originally posted by StartingAgain

Wow, Matilda, great stuff! MarriageBuilders is pretty great isn't it? I tried and tried to get my ex to to MarriageBuilders, but she flat refused. Then that was so much harder than going to a hotel with her lover.

 

Thanks! I do think Marriage Builders is good. I was really surprised at how helpful the information has been for my own marriage. It has really helped both my husband and I to make our marriage stronger.

 

I'm sorry about your ex. I just don't understand people who get married, and then refuse to try and make a marriage successful.

[StartingAgain]

A 30 year old woman at my office who is getting married in the fall, when told by me that marriage was hard work, said: "Oh, no. That's all wrong. You shouldn't have to work at your marriage. If you do, you are married to the wrong person. I know how you and XXXX struggled to save your marriages and both of you ended up divorced. That's how it should be. You just wasted so much emotion when you should have let it go at the first sign of a serious problem."

 

I told her that I give her marriage 18 months at the outside.

 

Another woman in my office, aged 33, married two years. Her husband went out with his buddies one evening in May. She went out with her girlfriends. She got home at 11:00, but he wasn't there yet, so she called him on his cell. He answered and told her that he was in a coffee shop, had had too much to drink and didn't want to try driving. His friend would be bringing him home in a few minutes. When he arrived home, she laid into him for not getting home before her and for being so irresponsible as to get too drunk to drive. He must have been up to no good. He baulked and they argued. Within a week she was calling him an abusive drunk who wouldn't listen to her. She filed for divorce two weeks ago. She said that it was the only serious argument they'd ever had. One of the older women in the office told her that she had been unreasonable with her husband and that now she was being rash. These were not grounds for divorce. She replied that "she didn't need this s***. She was finished."

 

This is becoming far too common. No one wants to do the work it takes to be married. It's all about Me, Me, Me anymore.

[moimeme]

When I am "stressed" and feel like the world is falling apart. There is nothing that I would like more than to make love and be close with my honey. When she is feeling the same, she'd rather I just kept my distance, or left to go do something

 

Men and women are differently wired, and this is one of the biggest differences. Stress is *not* condusive to desire in women. I'm not going to hunt up links or references, but they are there for sure. So that you want to have sex to relieve stress does not mean that your wife should or would. We are not the same, RevJPC. You have to understand that instead of continually thinking that it's about you personally.

 

One of the older women in the office told her that she had been unreasonable with her husband and that now she was being rash

 

It seems that being reasonable has fallen out of fashion. I don't get that at all. I have the utmost respect for reasonable humans and therefore endeavour to be so, myself. I think that people aren't made to understand that just because they think a certain way does not mean that it's a balanced view and so they ought to keep checks on themselves to determine whether their viewpoints are fair or not. It's all about one's 'rights' - which nowadays translate to 'whatever I want, I should have', totally bastardizing the idea of rights.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by StartingAgain

A 30 year old woman at my office who is getting married in the fall, when told by me that marriage was hard work, said: "Oh, no. That's all wrong. You shouldn't have to work at your marriage. If you do, you are married to the wrong person. I know how you and XXXX struggled to save your marriages and both of you ended up divorced. That's how it should be. You just wasted so much emotion when you should have let it go at the first sign of a serious problem."

 

I told her that I give her marriage 18 months at the outside.

 

 

Hmm, I say 14 months.

 

 

Another woman in my office, aged 33, married two years. Her husband went out with his buddies one evening in May. She went out with her girlfriends. She got home at 11:00, but he wasn't there yet, so she called him on his cell. He answered and told her that he was in a coffee shop, had had too much to drink and didn't want to try driving. His friend would be bringing him home in a few minutes. When he arrived home, she laid into him for not getting home before her and for being so irresponsible as to get too drunk to drive. He must have been up to no good. He baulked and they argued. Within a week she was calling him an abusive drunk who wouldn't listen to her. She filed for divorce two weeks ago. She said that it was the only serious argument they'd ever had. One of the older women in the office told her that she had been unreasonable with her husband and that now she was being rash. These were not grounds for divorce. She replied that "she didn't need this s***. She was finished."

 

This is becoming far too common. No one wants to do the work it takes to be married. It's all about Me, Me, Me anymore.

 

Yup. The "me, me, me" thing is one of the main reasons that marriage scares the heck out of me these days. There is no compromise unless you want to be a doormat. I feel sorry for that 2nd woman and happy/sad for her husband. At least he only loses two years. In this day and age, not driving home drunk seems pretty damned responsible to me.

[StartingAgain]

"There is no compromise unless you want to be a doormat."

 

Marriage is all about compromise. Doormats don't compromise; they just cave to every demand.

 

Moimeme, you are so right about the effect of stress on women. We are wired differenly. A man can't expect a stressed out woman to want sex. But you can help her destress if she's willing. I'd say that if you are so stressed out that your libido is dead and you don't care (not to mention the strain it's putting on your marriage), then it is past time to reprioritize your life so that you reduce the stress. Which would you rather have? A stressed out life, no sex life, an unhappy spouse, and the additional stress you're going to go throughas your relationship disintergrates? Or a life with less stress, great sex and a happy fulfilled spouse. Seems like a no-brainer doesn't it?

[Potatohead]

I can relate

 

However if I was getting good passionate sex 6 times a month I would be in heaven!!! Like you in every way..40 times a month would be perrrrfect .....but regrettably I have to accept about half that (of 6). It is still hard to cope with...but I am learning to accept quality not quantity.

 

Matilda I think is one of the most intelligent posters on this forum

[Matilda]

Well gee whiz, thanks Potatohead!

[VivianLee]

I do agree that men and women are wired differently but some of we females have a strong sex drive too. I would be all for 40 times a month sans the "period time" (that's just icky to me, I'd be willing to pleasure him during that time)....I don't understand why I can't get anything not even a deep kiss more than 4 times a year.

 

He stopped wanting sex the minute they pronounced us man and wife.....I was the opposite, I wasn't afraid my Mama was going to find out and die of a broken heart (because I was having pre-marital sex )....we were legal and I was ready to have as much sex as could be had!!!

 

Yesterday was my anniversary.....we went to bed early.....he went to sleep.....I wanted to cry.....I feel like I will never have a sex life till the day I die....that's just sad to me for some reason...

 

RevJPC if my husband wrote about his desire for me as you have for your wife...I'd be the happiest woman in the world!! It's rare to have that in a marriage....if she would just reciprocate.....y'all would have some awesome times together!!

 

By the way, anyone out there that's spouse isn't interested, don't go down the "maybe I'm not attractive" road.....it's not about that.....never usually is.....confusing huh??

[kitten]

If you married the woman that everyone thought was the ideal wife, like fam and friends etc.., but were never really attracted to, but loved as a person and a great mom would you stay and wake up in 10 years and say what the hell was i thinking or just stay put and be unhappy or have an affair? Then if you had an affair and actually fell in love w another woman, would you then same ques- stay, leave what would be your thoughts and feelings, what would you do?

[RevJPC]

Originally posted by kitten

If you married the woman that everyone thought was the ideal wife, like fam and friends etc.., but were never really attracted to, but loved as a person and a great mom would you stay and wake up in 10 years and say what the hell was i thinking or just stay put and be unhappy or have an affair? Then if you had an affair and actually fell in love w another woman, would you then same ques- stay, leave what would be your thoughts and feelings, what would you do?

 

"Ideal Woman?"=Waist Hight, No Teeth, Flat-Head to Rest a Drink?

[StartingAgain]

First of all, I would never marry a woman because my friends and falmily thought she was the ideal woman. If I wasn't attracted to her, there would be nothing between us, much less a marriage.

 

Secondly, if I were unhappy in my marriage, I would determine what it was that was making me unhappy and fix it. Having an affair will never make you happy. You might think your happy but it's all chimera; it simply isn't real. It can't be real, because it's based on lies. It's amazing how many people choose to step outside of their marriage, rather than fix the marriage.

 

There are three main causes for the vast majority of unhappy marriages and divorces:

 

1. Unrealistic expectations and childish ideas about the nature of love and marriage.

2. Marrying the worng person for ther wrong reasons.

3. Selfishness.

 

An affair will solve none of these problems.