Almost to the breaking point....???

[RogueAirborne]

My wife and I have been together for 9 years now, married 7. Things started off quite well (Don't they always?) but lately, I don't think of this as a marriage at all. We have 3 boys, 3, 6 and 15 (The oldest is hers from a previous relationship, whom I have adopted.) 2 main problems with our relationship, that I will give the details on:

 

1) She is always pissed off

2) Pretty much ZERO intimacy

 

1) I pretty much dread coming home each day because I know she is going to be bitching about something. I understand that the kids can stress her out and all, but come on! She goes out of town for 5 days and I stay home and play Mr. Mom and I have NONE of the problems she does. Of course she points out that I only did it for 5 days, while she does it everyday. Mmmmmmmk.

 

2) We have sex MAYBE once a month. As the story usually goes, we used to have great sex pretty frequently. Oral, anal, toys, etc, etc. Ever since our last child was born, ZIP! I would be happy with 1-2 times a week! Now, I am pretty understanding and all, and feel for women with all the changes that a women's body goes through. What really gets me chaffed is that we talked and talked and talked, and decided I would get a vasectomy, so that we would not have to worry about another pregnancy. The result of that great move: I am sterile, my balls ache all the time from back pressure (kinda like blue balls feel) because of the lack of release (rubbing one out helps some, but not much) and I get sex even less. When I do get sex, she just lays on her back.

 

If I bring this up with her, I am being a selfish ahole, and then I get a ration full of BS about how our problems are my fault, which I am by no means perfect, but....

 

Suggestions? Advice? I would really love to get men's and women's points of view on this.

 

Thanks in advance.

[sniffys]

hey rogue i was reading posts here and there are a lot of guys who have the same problem with their wives (usually, not gf). i think the best thing right now is you to write down all your problems, your issues, and if you think you can, write her a letter..be clear in your expectations, be clear about what you want. tell her you want to work it out, but you need to be as a team and both of you need to compromise.

 

http://health.howstuffworks.com/relationships/marriage/love-and-sex-after-children-how-to-keep-the-flame-alive.htm

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?10-Tips-to-Keep-the-Flame-Going-in-Your-Married-Life&id=1137350

 

also i have noticed some wives (after having 2-3 kids) have lack of sexual energy or low libido. i am not 100% sure but weak pelvic muscles can contribute to lack of sexual pleasure..need some more moms to post here. its either that, or she is tired from taking care of the kids, home, and thinking about problems (real or imagined).

Edited April 6, 2011 by sniffys

[Jane Deaux]

I am NOT, I repeat NOT, saying your W is having an affair.

 

But OMG, you are describing me.

 

Before my affair, I just stayed content with my life and H. Was not in love but definitely loved my husband as the father of my children and the life we had built. I didn't argue with him much, sex was okay, not horrible, but just okay. Let him pretty much do what he wanted because I didn't care much. Oooo, but once the A started, I became angry, (not his fault, just didn't want to be around him, so everything he did set me off), unhappy, depressed, sex was awful, ect. It was bad.

 

Right now, I am trying to talk it out with my H but know this. I am still not in love with him. So be careful. When you talk with her, know that she may say things so not to hurt you, but may really feel a different way. I haven't told my H that I am not in love with him. I will try to fall in love with him to all extents possible and make sure it's not possible before I tell him that. I just want you to understand she may not tell you everything. Even if you start the conversation, she may still hide some of her feelings and thoughts. I DID tell my husband I was doing this. I specifically told him "just so you know, I am not telling you every thought and emotion that is going through my head. I think some things are better left unsaid for now".

 

Okay, that may have been all over the place, it's just your post resonated with exactly what I'm going through. Except switch roles. I almost wish my husband would fall out of love with me. Sad I know.

[skywriter]

Rogue, Your story reminds me of how my ex-H behaved before he finally admitted he didn't love me and was leaving.

 

Which he eventually did.

 

In the meantime, there was alot of stonewalling when I tried communicating. I suggested counseling, got a resounding, "hell no!"

 

Anyway, I'm so sorry for you and if she's not in it with you, to make the marriage work, well, you can't fix it, if she's not willing to.

[blueeyes74]

Hey Rogue,

Could she be depressed? Has she gone through any major physical changes in the past year? Weight gain, other health issues? Does she work outside the home? I'm guessing if not she is only home with the youngest since the others are in school? I don't understand the anger. She obviously has a lot of pent up feelings that you both need to get out. Maybe a counselor to help mediate?

[WutheringH]

Your right, things always do start out well.. it's champagne and sex for breakfast. You never really hear about a romance that starts out mild and gradualy turns into a wild fire of passion and lust for years to come.. Thats because it dosn't happen.

 

Welcome to the human condition.

 

Infatuation or 'early romantic love' heavily targets the brain region called the VTA rich in dopaminergic neurons. Which to cut a long story short means that you feel a whole host of elated feelings and emotions (VTA is heavily connected to the amygdala which has a crucial role in processing emotions) The mind creates this intensity of feeling for a reason and it's to drive you to focus on one induvidual. To ensure your resources are well spent and your genes have a god chance of making it into the future. Sexuality and Love appear in brain terms involve some of the most primative structures. (in terms of long term attachment we appear to share a very similar system of responding to oxytocin and vasopressin to that of the Prairie Vole of all things) Thus despite what people on Love Shack often preach. It is incredibly difficult to use higher brain functions to combat Romatic love.

 

We are wired for short term satisfaction by and large and thus your romantic drive is too. Passionate love in almost 90 percent of couples negatively correlates with time. Why? Especially as we can all perceive the ideal as being a life time of passion with one mate. Well in evolutionary terms. Not only is a heightened physiological state exhausting in the long term, (All drugs have a comedown) It also would stop you from producing further genetic variety. Of course humans face the pull of monogomy and cheating precisely because care giving was vital in bringing a child up well. Thus two opposing stratagies of survival are in our brains whether we like it or not.

 

The reality is that peoples ability to feel and act on long term love likely lies on a gradient. Some people simply will have less of a rewarding response to the flushes of Oxytocin and Vasopressin that are increasingly appearing to be so important in maintaining a long term interest with a mate. (Oxytocin is responsible for attachment in nature. Mother to child.. deep love etc.) The first flushs of love are so intense becuase its a drive pushing you to have sex. The drive dies often dies when the deed is done. Although left unrequited infatuation can live for years. Akin to Scott Fitzgereld's, Hemingway's and Twain's life long obsessions with their first loves. Now a days sex is so prominate that this dosn't seem to be an issue anymore!

 

The female libido is notoriously prone to fluctuations. When in limerence (early stage of love) it goes crazy. In fact womans testostorone levels go sky high at this point. To ensure that sex happens and thus a child is conceived. Mens actually fall at this stage. Which is likely to entice them to focus on the one female.

 

Obviously your not in this stage so my recommondations would be as follows

 

 

Start small, you need to get those Oxytocin regulators up-regulating. Start small, hugs, massages etc. Then try actually gazing deep into each others eyes. Then proceed to sex. Gentle, long intercourse is best. Bonding behaviours need to be maintained. You can't just do it once and then declare it ineffective. Give it ATLEAST two months and it needs to be daily! Notice how all these activities come naturally when driven by desire. Desire drives you to be physical. However it is the actually physical acts that produce Oxytocin Regardless of premeditated levels of desire. (hence one nights stands often spark REALLY wanting the other both emotionally and physically) Oxytocin is like natures glue. Its what bonds mothers to their children and activly promotes empathy, love and that sense of connection. This is the stuff of deep love.

Talking things out does nothing to stimulate Oxytocin, physical touch will effect you on a subconcious level and then your desire and thoughts in the concious will gradually begin to reflect this. However if your wife has emotional issues regarding your part in her life. Talk WILL help as she needs to let the wall down before you can begin the physical climb back up.

 

The physical part is why so many sex therapist tell woman and men to activly engage with sex even if they don't feel like it. Even if the therapists often don't understand the mechanics behind it they've noticed the corellation that it has a positive overspill.

 

Regarding the nagging issues, people quite frankly when experiencing negative emotion instead of claiming responsabiltiy for itself find it far easy to push it on to other people. As the spouse you likely take the flak. If shes fallen out of 'love' i.e isn't feeling as attached. Shes still going to be upset. Shes invested in you and at one point loved you deeply. Thus instead of dealing with it perhaps shes almost picking fights to try and somehow justify things not being a rosy as they should. Its common behaviour.

 

I feel often this is why come affairs the cheater often trys to justify by finding faults with the other half. Its simply human nature if our introspection skills where too good deppression and guilt would halt many of us daily. Denial is an important part of human evoloution. Go to a marriage counciler to explore if she has negative feelings. The external presence will make it far more difficult to put one over on you. If she is at all.

 

Im not trying to point fingers at all but Jane Deaux below is a perfect example (based on what you have posted here Jane) If what she states is true, She was neatrual regarding her atitude towards her Husband untill she engaged in an Affair. Then he perhaps became a barrier to her fully enjoying the euphoria of her affair, so regardless of the reality of his behaviour towards her, her attitude towards him grew worse. Despite this seeming harsh and illogial as her husband is same guy likely displaying his same tpyical behaviour thus its logical that her attitude of morality and just behaviour should stay the same, it dosn't. Reflecting the inate selfishness in all of us. When it comes to human emotion its a typical and very real situation. As she mentions she wishes he would fall out of love. Typically Avoiding guilt and dealing with emotions in and mature way.

 

A good marriage counciler can always help, they will see through the words and the self justifications and force BOTH of you to address behaviour if their are obviouse issues.

 

The sad truth is that current data suggest that something like only 5 to 12 percent of couples stay in passionate love. This is why councilers bang on about friendship, shared interests and visions being the core of a relationship. Because come the end of the day most succsessful couples will become just that. Really good friends with a deep bond of attachment. When your high on Romantic love the other person could be the polar opposite of you and you would just find it 'exotic' 'unique' 'quirky' etc. It dosn't matter, hell your higher brain functions that can actually judge character, personality traits etc. Dosn't even get a large say. A large number of people fall into the process of falling in love after the first kiss. Which to the brain is the best chemical exchange it can get. Thus as far as you know your 'love' could have be founded on the fact she has an opposing immune system and thus your kids will have greater genetic varity to surive in the world.

 

A good marriage counciler can always help, they will see through the words and the self justifications and force BOTH of you to address behaviour if their are obviouse issues.

Edited April 6, 2011 by WutheringH

[shane147]

Rogue,

 

This sounds frighteningly familiar to my situation. Same amount of time married, same # and ages of kids. Communication is horrible and our sex life is... well, not alive. I wish I had advice for you.. in the meanwhile, please let me know if you find the cure all.

[zakfar]

I just wrote a reply in Shane147 post:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t272567/

 

Read that, as some of those points will be for you too.

 

Although many replies here are good, especially the one with detailed description on sexual stimulations, your problem (the one troubling you more) seems like psychological to me (might be her, and not you). Indeed a marriage counselor can be a great help. In the Shane's reply, I have mentioned a few points. I do not know if this forum permits such open mode of communication, and you would want to give such details or not, but if you can share those, it will be helpful to yourself.

[Richard Friedman]

Same old story. You're wife knows she's has you and after all these years she's tired of you. The only way out is to light a fire under her ass; make her afraid she's gonna lose you. Do these 5 things and she'll be jumping you in no time. 1. Stop giving compliments, flattery, and gifts. 2. Come home from work late every night. 3. Buy yourself new, stylish clothes. 4. Cheat. If she asks, deny. No need to confess to the wife. She’ll be able to smell the competitor vaj juice on you. 5. After three months of executing the above four points, unexpectedly tell your wife her ass looks great.

[zakfar]

Same old story. You're wife knows she's has you and after all these years she's tired of you. The only way out is to light a fire under her ass; make her afraid she's gonna lose you. Do these 5 things and she'll be jumping you in no time. 1. Stop giving compliments, flattery, and gifts. 2. Come home from work late every night. 3. Buy yourself new, stylish clothes. 4. Cheat. If she asks, deny. No need to confess to the wife. She’ll be able to smell the competitor vaj juice on you. 5. After three months of executing the above four points, unexpectedly tell your wife her ass looks great.

 

Good idea. But you missed the sixth point. 6. Prepare your divorce papers.

 

As someone said on the other post, two negatives can't make a positive in the real life. If she is acting bad to you, you don't need to become one to correct her. Such things are recommended/tried by many, and end up with an abusive relationship or end of relationship at all.

 

By the way RogueAirborne, Vasectomy was indeed not a good idea. Sorry to tell you that, but with this, you have actually thrown yourself away. Anyways, what happened has just happened. Now you need to look at the remedies.

 

The things that are important here is that, you should find out the actual reason of her 'Always being pissed off' and her lack of interest in 'Sex'. Try to think from her perspective. What are those reasons? You indeed need to have some open communication with her (when she is in good mood) but before that, try to search out themselves.

 

. Is she tired of you because you ask her way too many questions?

. Does she earn more money than you, and still handles most of the house-chores and kinship matters (like taking care of the children)? Is this making her mad at you?

. Does she want to have the control over you? By consistently denying you for sex, she might have something like that in her mind, believing it that this is your weakness.

. She no more enjoys sex as she used to do, and you are nagging her way too often, making her tired of you more and more. You ask her most of the time when she is very tired, and although she doesn't want to deny you (as she believes this is your right), she does not like it that you don't respect your feelings at all. Due to this the distance between you is increasing day by day.

. She has gained fat, and she thinks she is no more that beautiful as she used to be. She is feeling a psychological trauma that many women face in such scenario, starting to become irritated to almost everything they love, mostly their husbands and kids.

. Has she found someone else? I don't mean to make you suspicious, but this can indeed be a problem here. Instead of trying to spy on her, just ask this directly in when she is in good mood... but you should ask this if none other option fits. This can create a hell of a problem for you if she is not. Still, if she is not, and you would be talking to her when she will be in good mood, she will think later on what did she do that made you think like that for her. That's good too, as she will start analyzing herself a bit.

 

These are all that I could think about right now. But there can be lot more. Just think by yourself with an open mind what can be the reasons. Sort them out based on their possibilities, and talk to her some day when she is in good mood. Talk to her with openness and make her ready that this is going to be an important conversation. It is not an argument or conflict, and it is solely for the purpose of improving your relationship. Tell her that you will also listen to her reply with open mind, and would not try to defend yourself, and convert it into an argument. And yes, do that exactly. If feels offended during that conversation, and the discussion start converting into an argument/conflict, hold it up quickly by saying that we are having just an open discussion, and we should not try to defend ourselves.

 

If you go through this process, and can conduct that open talk between each other, chances are that problems will be solved just by the end of it. But it does not, try to find out the remedies later on.

 

By the way, things are persistent, and you are going through a very bad relationship, and you don't like her such controlling behavior, and she does not stop herself, then it is not a good idea to leave the things as they are. Better to visit a marriage counselor, and try to fix up things by a professional. Although I hate to say this always, but I never stop myself from saying this, if things keeps getting complicated, and make your life a 'Hell', better to end up a relationship rather than 'Dying with pain'. However, there are always some solutions. You can always fix the broken things, though they can't become as good as real, they can still become workable.

 

I hope it helps.

 

Zakfar.

[nsphere]

RogueAirborne, I really respect you for taking a good hard look and acknowledging there are issues in your marriage and trying to look for solultions than just running out there and cheating. And you are right to be upset. What's the point of being married if you feel alone and unloved?

 

Human touch can do amazing things and lack of it is a bad thing for spouses and kids. Affection is probably the best gift you can give to loved ones. My favorite quote at my son's daycare is "Children learn to love when they are loved."

 

Does she work? I only have one son and I feel like I have no free time unless I go without sleep so I imagine things are legitimately hectic in your household. In a long term relationship, it's easy to get into the habit of not spending time together and caught up in daily routines.

 

I'm sure if you are feeling lonely and want more sex, she probably is too. And if she hasn't lost weight from the last one, add insecurity to that which doesn't help. Does she have free time to exercise and work on herself? Not that you should tell her to exercise but if she wants to do things like that and get her hair done, it might help to ensure she is given mom time to do that.

 

And I completely agree with WutherinH. Even if she doesn't feel like it, try to make sex and spending time together a habit and the bonding will happen. Schedule a weekly date night and talk to each other like friends, listen to each others thoughts and hopes. Randomly stop in the middle of the day and give her a hug. I hope things work out.