new here....why men don't grow up???

[jsbandb36]

...sigh....well, Im at a place in my life...a crossroads of sorts. I'm turning 40 in a few days. I have 2 teenagers. I'm in school and looking forward to what the next 1/2 of my life will bring. I wouldn't want to be 20 again in a million years. I've been married for 13 yrs., together 15. I'm not happy with my marraige. In fact, that is the only part of my life that makes me unhappy. Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not easy to live with, I get that. I'm very analytical, have a never ending quest to now "why?"...why did you think this, why did you do that? I'm a firm believer that we all know WHY we did something, or thought something, etc. Nobody really just "does" something- there's always a concious thought. But not for my husband. He truly is the only human being I have ever met who never has a thought. Never. Not since the day we met. I used to ask him "hey, whatcha thinking?"; "nothing" he would say. I used to think that "hey, maybe he just doesn't want to tell me. I've come to find that he truly is thinking nothing.

In the beginning of our relationship we made a plan to move away (we both had drug addiction problems), we made our plan, discussed it at length and acted on our goal. We moved from MA. to FL. to live with his parents (I also had a 3 yr. old and left behind my family, friends, etc.) We got down there and he literally ditched me to spend most of his time drinking/drunk with his parents. I got pregnant and my husband joined the military. It was the best thing we ever did and has led to a long and somewhat successful career...or at least stability. My husband somehow lost himself along the way and is declining continuously. While first in the military he was very motivated, very educated and very proud of his family. He used to bring other guys home to our beautifully decorated house for home cooked meals. And then it all just stopped. He stopped being responsible for paying bills, stopped parenting, stopped participating in everything. He drank alot and always had time, passion and participation in his sports teams. Always...without fail. He did ALOT of stupid things...life threatening things like drinking while driving and crashing his car but having no recollection of doing so, lying, spending money on online gambling and lying about it.He can go days just lying on the couch, not talking to anyone, just in his sulky moods. How can you go days without interacting with your kids? He has no goals...no thoughts. I'm the one who is always thinking "what about the kids, college, retirement, future...." just nothing. Funny though, he can ALWAYS remember his sports teams though....he has a photgraphic memory when it comes to football and baseball. And OH! the dedication! If only I were a Red Sox player...then all my dreams would come true!

We've had ALOT of talks about him...alot of focus on why? why are you doing this? Why don't you want to be a part of this family? Why do you lie? Why do you not want to be respected? Why are you stuck in this perpetual adolescence? He never has an answer...just sits there with his head in his hands as I (admittedly )treat him like I do my teenagers. I feel like my options are to ignore him, which I do alot of the time, or tolerate him which I do the rest of the time. Just found out yesterday that he had been going to a gambling place that we both agreed not to go to. Yes, we were both getting out of hand and we both had a conversation about not going. He agreed, I agreed...and I held up my end of the bargain. He didn't and then he minimalized it by saying that he only spends a few dollars each time he has been going...which is probably 3-4 times a week (he buys his cigarettes there). So, what am I supposed to do now? I didn't even "scold" him...just asked him why he wouldn't want me to trust him and why he would want to be that kind of man. Got nothing.

I'm afraid that when I graduate school in November that I am going to leave. In fact, I'm pretty sure that that is what I want. But, for what? I don't want another relationship...I'm pretty happy on my own. So then I start thinking...why leave? At least I have companionship, even though it's driving me crazy. Then I think, well have an affair...get the best of both worlds. His companionship, and we do laugh together and get along, as friends....but that's about it at this point. I just don't know where I'm going and leaving, after 15 years, is very frightening. W'eve done counceling, both individual and marraige. The councelor told us all she could, we went for 2 yrs. off and on. She then said basically that it was a waste of our time and hers because he was not being honest with her and not prgressing. Blah....

[TaraMaiden]

You've settled for this, become complacent and really cant be asked to begin your own life, on your own, when you're perfectly comfortable living with three teenage boys. Better the devil you know.

Your wagon's only got three wheels, but with a fine balancing act, it's still rolling.

 

If you're happy with that, then, well, ok. Stay there.

if you're not happy, you need to get the motivation to face him, and tell him that when you graduate, you're ending it.

 

What do you think that would precipitate?

[carhill]

why men don't grow up???

 

Welcome to LS

 

As with women, it's not that they don't grow up, it's rather merely that the ones who do are largely invisible. Just like with children, it's the ones who misbehave who garner the attention and care.

 

Essentially, if I were to boil down your post, you are paying for companionship by parenting a child. That's a freely made choice. Some people are quite content with that dynamic. Some fear being alone more than being in an unhappy and/or toxic relationship. IMO, one path is that of clarity. Define what you want, clearly, and, even if it takes professional help, work that plan. Accept that no path is without risk nor hurt.

 

Good luck!

[jsbandb36]

first, thank you both for your replies. I know that the decision comes down to which path will lead me to what I perceive as my ultimate happiness. The struggle is much more about me than about him. See...he has made it perfectly clear that he is not changing. I, on the other hand, have changed and look forward to continuing this process. My dilema is, however, that I'm not sure I'm ready for such drastic change. I know I will be, at some point, as every day I get closer. The potential end to my marraige is frightening and dissapointing. But, I absolutly know that I cannot fathom living out the next 40 or so years like this. I have always had the natural distraction of having children to occupy my mind. I guess my more pressing question would be something like...how do I exist with this person, who for all intensive purposes, is a decent human being...knowing that I really have no intention of staying forever. I'm only staying until I'm ready. Ready as in...ready for clarity, for love, for my dreams....I'm not at that point yet...still a work in progress. So, do I just merely exist with him? Do I overlook all these incredibly dissapointing and hurtful things he does to sabotage our relationship just because I know that at some point I'm done? I cannot keep trying to get him to try...not gonna happen and I'm quickly resolving to that fact. Counceling for myself is a must...I see that. But, like I said...how do I go from here knowing what will most likely be my leaving?

[carhill]

'For me, how things are right now in our marriage is unacceptable. I've made an appointment with a MC next week and I want you to join me and talk about that. I'd like to hear your concerns and perspective'.

 

Listen.

 

Keep the appointment, even if solo. Interview the MC. If you like him/her, make an appointment for the next week. Again, rinse and repeat the above with H. Do this for a month. If he won't join you, make an appointment with a lawyer to immediately follow your last counseling session. You should be in a positive frame of mind and this will help when discussing the realities with a lawyer to examine your options.

 

I wouldn't screw around with someone who wasn't interested in bending to work on the M. Get out. You'll be amazed at the difference in how you feel. The lawyer can help you with strategies for transitioning that will align with the needs of your children as well as your education. Examine everything. Communicate clearly with your H. Accept his perspective.

 

Hope that helps

[Enchanted Girl]

You're too comfortable. You're never going to leave if you stay on this track, that's where you are misguiding yourself.

 

What you're saying to me is that you'll never be happy in this relationship, so why do you stay? Yes, it's a risk and very different from what you are used to to leave, BUT it's either guaranteed misery (if you know you're never going to be happy in this relationship) or possible happiness if you do leave it.

 

You're never going to feel ready to do it and it never feels right to end a marriage, but if you do believe that you're going to leave eventually, then why not leave now?

 

Whenever people say the word "someday", they usually mean "never" because they are just going to keep putting it off over and over again.

[carhill]

I conquered my fear (in my case the fear of financial ruin and the stigma of being a divorced man at 50) by utilizing a tool the MC gave me, that of making one positive step each day. Whether it was listening to my now stbx and really hearing her, or fixing something that I had been procrastinating about or planning a specific future event, whatever, one positive step each day. Each day is a new day and fear can be beaten, one day at a time.

 

You can do it

[Enchanted Girl]

The only thing I have to suggest Op is that you don't get involved in an affair which will just cause unnecessary pain and complicate things immensely.

 

Figure out how you want to go about either resolving your marital difficulties or perhaps terminating the marriage.

 

Once that is done, you will be in a position to start a new relationship on an honest, healthy basis--which is hopefully something that makes sense to you.

 

Yes, I agree with this post. You can't wait to move on from this man until you find a new one. Affairs aren't a good beginning to a new relationship. You need to learn and heal from this one before you can even begin to think of new possibilities and if you stay in this relationship, you'll never begin to heal from it.

 

I'm not saying you have to get divorced, but don't let your excuse not to be procrastination and feeling comfortable in a bad situation.

[luvstarved]

I just wanted to throw out there that "why?" is a more difficult question than it seems on the surface. I am a very analytical type too and want

to know precisely what is going on.

 

But I am also an honest person, and admit I also have difficulty answering "why?" to my own behavior. I don't know why precisely I stay in my marriage when there are so many negatives. Oh I can tell you what some of the factors are, but I can't list them according to weight, etc. I try to do this and end up just getting uncertain or even downright confused at times.

 

And when someone is NOT an analytical type, forget about it. They don't tend to even attempt such self-assessments, and asking them to do so is possibly downright painful...they might know that you won't like any answer they have to give because ultimately they are aware they are being selfish,etc. and realize that much...and really, what would be be a good answer when lack of care, responsibiliity and selfishness is what you're looking at?

 

Nobody wants to sit there and admit to doing what they want to do because they want to do it. But that sounds like what is going on. I am not sure what you are looking for him to say...?

 

What would be a good and sensible response from him that would make you feel better and allow him to feel accepted, allow him to not have to say "I am a selfish prick"....?

 

I wonder if you would have any better success if instead of asking him why, you instead told him about YOUR feelings, tell him what you need that you are missing, and ask him if there is any way he canhelp you with your needs? Honestly, I have doubts that it would matter...then it might just shift from "you are trying to stop me doing what I want to do" to "you are trying to control me"...sigh. Who knows?

 

But, I do think you have a better chance taking it from the "can you do this?" vs "why are you doing that?" angle. Might be worth a shot.

[Calendula]

If you met this man who is your husband for the first time a week from today, and you still knew all that you currently know about him, would you marry him again? I'm not talking about what you have shared in the past, but looking towards the future and the life you want to build for yourself, and considering the person you are TODAY and want to become, would you marry this man so that he could share that journey into the future with you? Would he be the partner you deserve, and would he be willing and able to return in kind the time and energy you would freely put into the relationship?

 

I have a feeling from your OP that you already know what the answer is, and that answer isn't going to change no matter how much talking you do or how many counselors you go to.

 

In some relationships there comes a point where you have to decide what you need to do for YOU, first and foremost. This is especially the case when your SO doesn't necessarily have your happiness and your best interests in mind (for whatever reason). I think you've reached this point. Now you just have to sort out all the details of making what you have decided you want into a reality. Don't think about it too much, don't worry about what might or might not happen, just decide and start to do it.

 

From the way you've described your relationship, you convey the feeling that this man drags you down, holds you back, burdens you, and drains you of energy. Thing is, you have become so used to this state of affairs that you've forgotten what it was like not to have him holding onto you. You've been tied down and held back for so long that you find the ropes and the burden comforting. You've forgotten that you have wings, and the recent changes in your life (school, upcoming birthday, children growing older) have perhaps reminded you that you used to want something different, something more. Up till now, you've chosen to stay with this man, you've chosen to let him live off of your efforts, and you've perhaps blamed him for things that you don't like about your life. Stop blaming him, take control of what is going on, the direction your life is heading, and take action to get what you want in the future.

 

You said yourself that you're fairly happy on your own, and it seems like you've practically been alone most of your marriage even though you've technically been with this man. The only thing worse than being lonely is feeling that you are alone even when you are with someone else. In this scenario, you don't even have the option of looking for someone new to be with.

 

I agree with many of the previous posts that say you shouldn't bother with an affair. You need to focus on you, give yourself time to heal, and rediscover what it is like to truly be independent and free from the needs of anyone other than yourself and your children.

 

No matter how scary the thought of leaving him and ending your marriage might be right now, once you're free, you'll probably wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

[jsbandb36]

Thank you all so much, again, for your insight and replies. Calendula, you are absolutly correct in your assumption that I would not marry this man if I had just met him. I married him for a variety of reasons, when I was very young and had no knowledge of who I was or what I wanted. He does drag me down...all of us down...even the kids have caught on. It's thick, like swamp water- the tension, his dissapointment in himself, his lack of confidence,his inability to relate to anyone...he's sinking and very fast and it's so obvious. The kids are kind of in the same boat as I am- it's just inevitable and it's obvious. Had a "talk" with him the other day...I tried not to ask the Why's too much. Asked him why he went along with an agreement for us both not to go to the gambling place. His answer? Because he wanted to keep me from going...yet, he never had any intention of not going himself- just wanted to keep me in my place. Called my bluff and asked to see my facebook (another of his manic paranoias'-that I'm always doing something to get him or against him or sneaky)...figuring I must be hiding something from him. Turned the whole thing over to him, let him explore....found nothing. I've never been anything but honest with him, even if I've done something he won't like. I clearly see his behaviours as manic...delusional. His reasoning for doing things is not factual..it's based on made up ideas and things that have happened way,way in the past. I have come to the convinced conclusion that he has some kind of mental issues. He believes that he is "trying to be nice, but I won't let him" is the reason for everything. I explain that his trying to be nice has nothing to do with me..it's for him because when I don't respond with extreme gratitude and over affection because he did something nice (and I'm talking about things like over exaggerated niceness like making me a hamburger and hovering over me asking "would you like lettuce, would you like your bun toasted, how much ketchup would you like me to put on it, how many fries would you like, do you want it on this plate, etc. and then standing over me while I eat it...waiting for my praise and attention) that's not solving our major issues!! Ugh...I could go on and on...as I'm sure you all know. He told me, as he's told me a million times before...he will only be happy if he can make me happy- yeah, thanks for the added weight. I DO NOT want to be responsible for someone else's entire happiness? How about you be happy because YOU make yourself happy? I asked him what would happen if I weren't here for him to base his "completeness" on...he said "I'd probably be drinking and gambling all the time"....AH- HAH.....there you have it....being happy, being productive, self sufficient, confident IS what is out of his element...that's why we are having these problems. He would much rather be dark, diseased, miserable.....he'd rather run away, put the burden on me, hide in a corner and make everyone elses life miserable than to get real help for his psychological state of mind and his addictions. So, here I am...just turned 40....3 months away from finishing school. He knows what my intentions are....believe me, just another thing he can use against me...I assured him that with every day that HE doesn't do anything to help himself is another day the I get the will to walk.

[Calendula]

Keep writing. If need be, anonymously here on LS. Just keep writing. Get all those ideas, feelings, thoughts, down into words in front of you so you can look back at them. When you read them back to yourself, you remind yourself why you are making some choices and not others, you can observe your feelings and thoughts objectively, and everything will start to make sense. What you want in life will become more clear, and the path to get from here to there will open up before you. Just keep writing.

 

Excerpting from your last post:

Because he wanted to keep me from going...yet, he never had any intention of not going himself- just wanted to keep me in my place. Called my bluff and asked to see my facebook (another of his manic paranoias'-that I'm always doing something to get him or against him or sneaky)...figuring I must be hiding something from him.

 

His reasoning for doing things is not factual..it's based on made up ideas and things that have happened way,way in the past. I have come to the convinced conclusion that he has some kind of mental issues. He believes that he is "trying to be nice, but I won't let him" is the reason for everything.

 

He told me, as he's told me a million times before...he will only be happy if he can make me happy- yeah, thanks for the added weight.

 

He knows what my intentions are....believe me, just another thing he can use against me...I assured him that with every day that HE doesn't do anything to help himself is another day the I get the will to walk.

 

All of the above sounds like controlling behavior to me; a good deal of it passive-agressive, but controlling none-the-less. It appears that he is primarily playing the guilt card: you're happy (relatively speaking), he's not, therefore it is your fault that you haven't given him some of your happiness. How can you 'give' someone happiness?

 

I'm sure at some point you will hear something from him along the lines of "it's your fault that I drink and gamble, and have wasted my life away, because you weren't good enough or didn't do something specific for me." Probably not in those exact words, but I bet anything the meanings would be there. You are NOT responsibile for the choices HE makes in his life. You can try and influence them, encourage him to make better choices (and it truly sounds like you've tried), but his ultimate actions and decisions are completely HIS responsibility, NOT yours.

 

I DO NOT want to be responsible for someone else's entire happiness? How about you be happy because YOU make yourself happy?

 

Absolutely!!! You've figured this out, but he obviously hasn't yet.

 

I asked him what would happen if I weren't here for him to base his "completeness" on...he said "I'd probably be drinking and gambling all the time"....AH- HAH.....there you have it....being happy, being productive, self sufficient, confident IS what is out of his element...that's why we are having these problems.

 

He would much rather be dark, diseased, miserable.....he'd rather run away, put the burden on me, hide in a corner and make everyone elses life miserable than to get real help for his psychological state of mind and his addictions.

 

Facing your problems and dealing with them head on is something that pretty much everyone has some degree of difficulty with. Some people never can. The bigger the problems you have and the more they are directly of your making, than the more you would have to accept responsibility for screwing up. No one likes to admit they were wrong or made a mistake, and the bigger the screw up the more likely someone is to lie to themselves and deny it. The more likely they also are to take the easy way out and spend all their energy (and money) on finding an escape. It is called the 'easy way out' for a reason, but 'easy' doesn't necessarily equate to happy, mature, educated, confident, self-sufficient, independent, etc. All these things take some degree of WORK, even if it is just working on yourself, and work is most certainly NOT easy (otherwise it wouldn't be called work ).

 

In my experience, part of 'growing up' is being able to admit and accept your mistakes and failures (fully acknowledging your role or the effect such events had on you), learn from them, try not to repeat them, and forgive yourself for making them in the first place. The past has to stay in the past in order to move towards the future. The trick is that in order to avoid repeating the past you have to acknowledge it, accept it, and learn from it. You can't just forget it or ignore it; it is a part of who you are. Some people are never able to do this completely, but as long as you try then you're at least moving in the right direction. The final key to all of it is that you have to be able to FORGIVE YOURSELF in order to give yourself room to grow and change in the future.

 

Best of luck and KEEP WRITING. You'll get there, wherever it is you want to be