The Usual Confusion...

[mzbaker]

i feel entirely strange for even venturing out into cyberland for advice and i know that my "problem" will surely be one that many have had or seem trite but i'm truly desperate.

 

i don't even know if this is a forum focused on the more mature of us...see, i am 37...he is 39. we are hardly new to life or relationships. i'm still feeling lost though and need some help...advice from both men and women will be greatly appreciated.

 

we have dated 2 and half years. we both have a history of serial monogomy and avoiding marriage. he at least has co-habited before where i've avoided it completely. however, we seemed to connect so strongly that when he suggested last year that we move in together, i jumped on it. i was already planning a move to his area of town so it seemed perfect. we moved in together june 2008.

 

when we first met, i was hellbent on friendship only. i liked him but didn't want to date anyone. he pressed for dating and i gave in only because he was so fun and charming...he brought out the best in me for sure.

it took him two months to get a kiss and another two for me to agree that yes, we are now a couple. but then he began to scare me a little...admittedly, we both fell fast but he began making comments about having kids and getting married. granted, these comments were in passing and a joking manner but they happened every time i saw him which i tried to keep to once a week but he often insisted on more. little by little i gave in or gave in is a strong phrase since he was awesome and i was falling madly in love with this man. i had a lot of trouble with relationship anxiety...so afraid of getting close and marriage or kids talk really worried me. so, i gave it a lot of thought and discussed it with him and decided if we got to that point i'd gladly marry him and possbily even have a child if that is what we both wanted and were financially able. this took a lot of soul searching on my part but after so many years of fighting it...i realized, wow! i really do want this now...due to meeting this man...it was him and the relationship with him that made me feel at ease and even excited by the idea. people don't often understand this but until he came along pressing for the seriousness...i was terrified of it.

 

september or so 2007 he talked a lot more about marriage...he even had my dress designed in his mind and had an eloping plan to vegas. i was nearly brought to tears by the sweetness and openness of all this. he readily told me about it and about conversations with his father about wanting to marry me.

march 2008 my sister teases me that she's had a conversation with him about marriage and he wanted my ring size...and to tell me that i'd "not have to wait long for a proposal..." she and i talked about rings and picked out two very inexpensive ones which he later revealed she'd shown to him.

she told me no more than that but it really got my head and heart leaping for joy...this is when i knew this is right...i've met my match and we will have a fabulous life together. no one was more shocked than me that i wanted it so much. so, i settled into this mindset that it is coming...we're there and it's meant to be. no worries.

 

that same month is when he suggested we move in together so i am thinking we are well on our way...

he begins cutting back on his expenses and spending more time with me...very loving and encouraging (always has been really)...very supportive...my best friend in every way. awesome.

 

we move in together in june 2008 and its great except suddenly he's spending money like crazy...new motorcycle and all the most expensive gear, new camera, new this and that...usually a couple hundred bucks at a time. well...ok...he's just got more play money than i do...no worries.

 

october 2008 i'm laid off my job but get a nice UE check (about a grand less per month but still thank god i have plenty of money to pay my own bills while i look for work) and he's very supportive but begins harping on me about volunteering...he starts making comments suggesting i am not trying or i don't care or i'm wasting my time or being selfish...i'm telling him i'm focused on improving myself and looking for a job...also being choosy about volunteer options. he's very hard on me about this and when i begin volunteering...he rants how it took HIM so long to TALK ME INTO IT...that it took him PUSHING me to do it...not true...if he'd paid attention...i was following my own path. seems he doesn't listen to me anymore AND is very critical.

he even criticized my attempts to find a job...suggesting i'm not trying hard enough when its clear i am and clear that its tough on everyone right now. after a while i began to feel very beaten down and not supported at all. this led to a couple short bouts with minor depression (lasting a week or so each) in which i just couldn't talk with him. i felt so lost and alone...is it wrong to believe i shouldn't feel alone when my best friend/partner and mate is right here?

to make matters worse...we used to hike and bike and go out together...all kinds of things all the time and he just stopped. i couldn't get him to take a walk with me or bike for saturday morning coffee at our favorite bakery. he used to send love notes and buy little sweet tokens of love like a couple orchids or a nice dinner or just some random thing i said i liked in a store...no more...it just stopped. so strange...

 

during all this he begins making little comments about marriage again...suggesting he plans to propose...even went through my rings having me try them on to see which fit "that" finger. christmas comes and where we usually give super sweet things to each other he got me one gift...a $10 hula hoop. i hula hooped a lot as a kid and we've joked about it but it made no sense. why is that all he did when he is blowing hundreds of dollars each month on gadgets for himself? i am not a materialistic person but this was so out of the ordinary for him. worst yet, my sister and friends were under the impression he'd be proposing. he says "did you want a real ring? not a plastic one?" har har...i say, only if he wants to propose but i'm so confused as to where i or we stand. he asked me to marry him and i was so upset...so much had built up in me that i said, "no. when you really want to propose you'll do it right." he laughed it off...we both did eventually and i waited.

 

things continue to be weird...he has an accident on his motorcycle one sunday (another day we could have been doing something together but he refused) he went out for an afternoon drive in feb. (09) and its bad...he has to have surgery on his leg to fix an awful fracture in his knee/tibia. i, of course, stand by him and take care of him. driving him to the doctors/physical therapy/work/whatever he needs. i bought him everything he needed to be comfortable and heal at home...i wait on him hand and foot...been dumping out his pee bottle for weeks now and running myself ragged driving him everywhere he wants no matter what i need to do for myself/us in terms of jobs/job interviews (which i've had a couple awesome ones lately--he never wished me luck even...weird). our families are scattered about the country so i've not had a chance to meet his (only a brother once) but they've called and emailed...so wonderful and thankful i am here taking care of him...wanting me to be part of the family...etc...etc...

he tells me a few days after the accident that he'd planned to buy my ring and propose but now he can't due to surgery and medical bills. he has awesome insurance and had to pay little to nothing and my ring costs all of $300 which he's spent on new gear, etc. ???

no worries, i tell him, "you're so sweet...i don't need a ring for you to propose and make it official, you know?" he chuckles and that's that. he still doesn't propose. all the while i'm taking care of him he's gone from this super sweet romantic faith based optimistic person who is madly in love with me and will tell anyone who will listen to someone i don't know anymore. i've learned of so many lies about previous relationships...though to my knowledge he's never cheated or anything...it still wears on me that he'd lie/keep secrets and with all the changes in his interaction with me...i just don't know what to think. and no, all these changes did not come with the accident...they were well in force before.

as a matter of fact...the day he had surgery, while under the influence of morphine, he tells me time and again how much he loves me and doesn't know what he'd do without me...that i am an amazing woman that he never wants to lose...he's so blessed to have me, to have this best friend, lover, playmate and partner by his side all his life and he insisted we are forever...for the rest of our lives...even quoted the "for better or worse...till death do us part..." but then right back to the criticism, backlashing, coldness and ignoring the marriage thing.

 

i have always wanted to learn spanish and found it would help in the job search...well, that's just stupid according to him and my choices are useless...a waste of time. he's begun clearing out his phone and not discussing friends or family with me...he's begun hiding out by himself with the phone or laptop in his face. he's not been half as interested in sex since we moved in together...we used to be one hot couple...since the move in...it's lukewarm AT BEST.

 

i'm a person who wants to grow and improve herself in life...i want to challenge myself and stay strong and happy...at peace in life and love. he was that way too but doesn't seem so much these past 6-8 months. sometimes i look at him and don't know who he is...

a funny thing...he used to not say he loves me much but it wasn't necessary...i felt it all the time. now, he says "i love you" 3-4 times a day but i don't feel it. seems like just words.

 

i'm starting to feel stifled and even strung along at this point. it took a lot for me to consider even moving in...let alone marriage. its hard to illustrate for you how very distressing that was for me to sort out...it was tough...i gave it a lot of thought. for him...it was like changing underwear after a shower...or so it seemed...he spoke of getting serious, moving in, marriage, kids like it was the easiest thing in the world. was i wrong in believing it was so easy for him because i was "the one" and so very special to him? its beginning to appear to me that this is his usual game whether he means to or not...that he jumps into these things until "she" (the girlfriend...ie: me now) gives up and walks away...at which time he gladly lets her walk away because he never gave it that much thought anyway...so then realizes..."yikes, thank god i can get out of this easy"???

[2sure]

Geez. Your man sounds like he likes the IDEA of marriage, making a life with someone...but doesnt understand actually doing it. Your post is in detail, but the answer is short. He wants a roommate to share expenses and to love him.

[mzbaker]

thank you for taking the time to read all that and give me your honest opinion. i agree with you, unfortunately...but i guess i needed others opinions too. i think i went into such detail because in addition to what seems to be him just liking the idea of marriage and wanting a roommate to take care of him...i'm starting to think he is purposely trying to push me away...which wholly uncool! i'd expect a man of his age to be able to look inside himself, figure out what he is doing and why and just say so in a mature and rational manner. i guess it may be true what a friend recently said to me..."men don't mature, their shoes just get bigger."

[2sure]

Well MzBaker - you seem to know what you want. It is not unusual for people at your point in your life - to want to have their life in order. Often this includes marriage and family.

 

Your guy sounds like a lifelong teenager - and although this is also common - he has not offset this with things like a great job, a plan for the future. His priorities are those of a teenager. Yours are those of an adult.

 

Additionally it sounds like he wants the traditional role of spouses in that HE wants you to be supportive of HIM - but offers nothing in return.

 

Move on honey.

[sugarmomma]

Your story sounds just like mine. My XH came on very strong in the beginning and over time became verbally abusive and I would feel horrible about myself being around him. What he is doing is a behavior called hot and cold. If I were you I would set some boundaries when he starts the put downs and criticisms. Also start taking better care of yourself first because if a man sees that you will put him before you, they figure you don't see yourself as a priority. I would NOT marry him if I were you. You were treated better as a girlfriend. I am always leary of men who come on very strong in the beginning. Those usually turn out to be the abusers. They want you to fall inlove with them so that you can abandon yourself when they change. To Thine Own Self Be True. And you say the sex is going down the drain. Forget about marriage and if you tell him that you don't want to get married I would bet you ten dimes to one that he would change back to the original "representative" that he was before. Please listen to me. When someone loves you they bring out the best in you all the time.

[Mr. Lucky]

Without implying anything, perhaps there's a reason he's still unmarried at 39? Some guys are emotional "entreprenuers" - better at the start-up phase of the relationship than they are at maintaining the long-term structure. You may be learning something that his previous relationships also found out over the course of time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mzbaker]

thank you thank you so much...i know all that was quite a read and i really appreciate the time you put into it...you've all given me much to consider. seems like very good insight all around. very helpful:)

 

i wouldn't say he is abusive. god knows i've been in those which is why i am my age and not married. i always had serious issues with self esteem and relationships in general but by the time he came along...i'd gotten a lot of therapy and begun to heal. otherwise, i probably wouldn't have allowed such a seemingly good man into my life.

 

that said, there is the needless needling and criticism. most of the time i think its normal when going through hard times...you kind of lash out at each other and are on edge but it has gotten to be a bit much the past few months. i already told him i wouldn't marry him if he asked anytime soon...that these issues must be worked out if at all possible...so we will see.

 

i have had it cross my mind that there was a reason someone his age isn't married but i'm not either and got past my issues (which i like to think was just mainly my not needing/wanting marriage? didn't meet the right person and taking my time to grow myself?) he and i both have been serial monogamists and though i've had a few proposals that i turned down, he's been engaged once...was engaged FOUR YEARS before ending it and calling everything off. i don't know all the details because she isn't here to speak for herself. there was one other woman he was serious about up until 2 years before we met. he lived with her 3 years and says they ended because she gave an ultimatum about marriage and though he loved her very much he didn't want to marry her...didn't feel she was "the one" so he left and i could see it was hard on him. i met her once, by accident...we all bumped into each other at the park one day and she's awesome from my opinion and yet, not that much like me really...she and i are like polar opposites so i thought maybe this was true...she's great but not his "match"? at any rate, he was single 2+ years before meeting me which i liked a lot...i loved that he wasn't on a rebound or anything like that and we took things very slow. we developed a friendship first which i'd never done before.

 

anyhoo...here we are.

here's the real update:

yesterday he seemed right back to who he always was and i noticed one of my rings missing...the one that fits "that" finger. he was extra fun, optimistic and encouraging...he even insisted on some romance time last night which was a very nice surprise. so, of course, i am now extra confused. ha!

it even crossed my mind, since he is the IT administrator for cisco that he is reading what i write online and got scared? i have to laugh at that...its so paranoid but his change is so fast and so significant that i don't know what to think about it.

 

what i do know is that you have all given me so much to think about and your insights and advice are so very helpful.

and just so you know...i've never been healthier, in the best physical condition of my life and even 20 year old men flirt with me. i'm smiling and happy with me and dedicating time to me...maybe that is why the sudden change in him? again...we'll see.

 

for now, i'm focusing on me while trying to not be a "bitch" to him...trying to keep a positive attitude on all fronts but with the decision in my mind that if things don't improve (ie: more maturity from him) then i'm moving on. i didn't need marriage or even a relationship before and i don't need it now if it isn't healthy for both of us. i want something too!

[Mr. Lucky]

he's been engaged once...was engaged FOUR YEARS before ending it and calling everything off.

To a certain extent, just reinforces what I said. It takes 12 to 15 months to plan a wedding - why a four year engagement?

 

Mr. Lucky

[mzbaker]

i'm sorry...i said that wrong. he dated her for four years and my understanding is the engagement lasted around 2 years. still, your point holds true for sure.

he tried to explain to me that he was young (25) and the engagement was more to help her get to the states (she was korean and her parents wouldn't let her go to the states with him unless they planned to marry) and once they were here living together she began to show a lot of signs of mental illness. he said it finally caused the end to their relationship and they kept in touch a while and he learned through their correspondence that she'd been diagnosed with a pretty serious mental illness. so, that's his story. on the one hand it makes perfect sense and on the other...who knows because i don't have her side.

we were out and about today and came across a great bike on sale for $500...he said, "If it was only $300 I'd charge it right now" which really took me aback because we both have great bikes AND the ring is only $300 so why not charge it if he is so cavalier about money?

i appreciate all of your advice so much. i know i seem to be fighting it but you've all giving me much to think about. so far, i've decided that after only a little over two years dating and barely a year living together...maybe its ok to wait a while longer. i've given myself an internal/secret deadline of july for a proposal. partly because we haven't been together long enough for me to fuss about it so much and partly because we had a long talk about it the other night and he said he's now nervous he'll take away the thunder from his brother who just became engaged a week ago. ok...i'll go with that until july and see how things go. if he still hems and haws then i'll have to make a new decision for myself.

to be honest...i struggled a lot with the marriage idea so it isn't that i am so deadset on marriage...its that he went on and on about it until i decided i wanted it too...so now i'm just confused why he'd change my whole perspective and thereby get my hopes up only to do all this dancing around it.

seems to me that your collective opinions/advice have clarified its likely due to him not yet knowing what the heck he wants.

[Mr. Lucky]

we were out and about today and came across a great bike on sale for $500...he said, "If it was only $300 I'd charge it right now" which really took me aback because we both have great bikes AND the ring is only $300 so why not charge it if he is so cavalier about money?

Mzbaker, while I hope you get what you want, he sure seems to be giving you a lot of clues as to how he really feels. Some guys just don't see themselves as the marrying kind...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mzbaker]

you make so much sense but we are now engaged. it's the craziest thing. when i said, "but i decided you weren't the marrying kind so i'd moved on to resolve myself that we'd either not work or just 'shack up' the rest of our lives" he was shocked and a little hurt...scared i didn't want to marry him. he's ecstatic to be engaged...he's telling everyone and picked out rings and a place to go to elope...has all these ideas planned out which he's surely been thinking about for a long time.

i'm so glad i was wrong. it just goes to show you that if you take a step back and try to figure it out rather than harping on someone...they'll figure it out for themselves and let you know. sphew!

thank you so much for your time and advice...again, you made perfect sense but this one has and will have a happy ending:D

[Mr. Lucky]

All the best to you and your future...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sure]

Congrats! May your journey be a pleasant one.