Nothing to work with

[SydneyHeart]

I'm at a loss. Whenever an issue comes up, it's like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Used to be over 'big' issues - now it's everything.

 

Yesterday was supposed to be my 'day off' - hubby was to look after the kids - but he made it clear he wanted to mow the lawn at some point.

 

He mowed the lawn - took about an hour, but he said he wanted to go over it one more time later. Fine. I went out with our eldest whilst the other slept. When we got back, I asked if he could take them both outside on the swing for 10 minutes whilst I did something.

 

He said "I want to mow the lawn"

 

I said "well....can you take them for a 10 minute swing and THEN mow the lawn?" He said "I want to get this done - I have to do blah blah blah set up the equipment blah blah" I said realistically he did not have enough hours of daylight left to do anything BUT finish mowing the lawn. He said "YEAH IM GOING TO MOW THE LAWN" I said he couldn't just dictate like that, otherwise I will too and IM TAKING 10 MINUTES TO MYSELF!!

 

Then he says we need to write up a list of household chores and who does them and when. Oh boy! I say WHY? And he says I am shooting him down, I say I am discussing what he suggested. By this stage he is cutting off the end of my sentences and talking over me, and I am getting louder, and I am getting angry because he is doing this when the kids might hear and I tell him I'm at my limit and he needs to leave before the kids hear something I don't want them to hear. He is walking down the stairs away from me, and is giving me the finger the entire time.

 

This is about the 10th time the exact same thing has happened in the last 6 months. I try to talk, he blocks, I get so frustrated I ask him to leave, he seems to hate me because I ask him to leave. He says I can't keep doing that. I say he can't keep talking to me like I'm his worst enemy he hates.

 

I don't get it. I feel like I'm dealing with a surly adolescent boy. He has promised to make an apt with a guidance counsellor for at least the last 2 months, and of course he has not.

 

I think he honestly believes that you should NOT have to discuss MOST things in a relationship - it all should be obvious or it should not be neccesary. Like, for example, he doesnt understand why he needs to "check in" with me if he wants to drop by and visit a friend after work. I don't see why he wouldn't call and ask me if I mind first. Afterall, I consider him in everything I do.

 

I hate to see this end, but honestly, I don't see that I have anything to work with here at all. Does anyone out there see or recognise anything?

 

Thanks for your time.

[luvstarved]

I knew my H had a twin somewhere. I wish I could be optimistic but I am in the same boat and have just about exhausted my attempts.

 

You ARE married to an adolescent boy. And if he is chronologically over 30 then the chances of him REMAINING an adolescent boy are pretty high.

 

I don't think you can fix this one yourself. It is too bad that he won't go to counseling but I suggest YOU go.

 

I have tried this several times and my H DOES readily agree to go (he thinks he is going to "be vindicated" but when it doesn't turn out that way, he bails) so if yours isn't even willing to do that, it doesn't seem promising.

 

The upshot of what I have read and heard from counselors we have gone to is that very few people like this ever change. SOME do but only if they realize and admit their problem and "man up" to change. Most actually believe they are right and have no need to change.

 

We are on our 4th counselor...nothing yet. I wish you luck.

[SydneyHeart]

Thanks for your response luv Both glad and dismayed to hear my husband has a twin. Glad it's not just me - dismayed it's you too. Fourth counsellor and - dare I ask - how much time? I'm almost scared to hear your answer.

 

He will go to a counsellor - but ONLY if I go and hold his hand. This is almost impossible due to us having small kids and not much cash and no relatives around to babysit - which is why I suggested we go individually at least to start.

 

I just spoke to him. He says giving someone the finger or saying F YOU (yes, he's done that too) is just what poeple do when they are angry. I said it was aggressive and crossing the line in my opinion and he says that's just in my own little set of standards. According to him everyone does it. He also like to jab the air with his finger which I find very aggressive, and he says everyone does it and it's no worse than raising your voice.

 

Thoughts?

[quankanne]

ditto on the thought that you are dealing with a surly adolescent ... best thing you can do right now is to start treating him like one of your children and spell out what's allowable and what isn't. Sounds mean, but it's really to help you two get things under control. Like the chore thing: divvy them up according to what each of you are best at doing and what you'd rather do. In my house, I do laundry, he handles garbage patrol and taking stuff out to the compost pile. And vacuuming, because while I don't *mind* doing it, he actually does the better job. So I don't mind stripping beds and putting fresh sheets on because I'm quicker at it. Or bathing the dog, because that entails a lot of bending and kneeling, which would totally kill his back. But I digress ...

 

when you set up a chore chart, be sure to specifically spell out when stuff needs to get done, or he'll drag his feet like a kid. As much as he'll grumble at being treated like a kid, he will at least have a clear idea of what's expected, and that's probably the most important thing when it comes to guys. Otherwise, they think that you're okay with how things are, simply because you haven't said anything. They're incredibly literal minded.

 

don't hold your breath on his setting up an appointment with a counsellor – he'll drag his feet and drag his feet. Instead, maybe look for a marriage counsellor for the both of you to visit, so that you can be on the same page when it comes to better communication skills. I'll be honest: He'll think it's your way of telling him that he's bad, or that you want to change only him, rather than giving your marriage a breath of fresh air because you're learning how to communicate better.

 

main thing to keep in mind is that men are like little kids: They need a firm hand to keep them in check, even the good ones.

[quankanne]

meant to add that you can find help with marriage counselling at churches, which often provide childcare while you're meeting with the reverend/rabbi ... also check in with the local parents anonymous center, see if they have any recommendations of counselling places.

 

the finger? Yeah, it's a means of communication, but a very closed one. Because when someone flips you off, it's like them throwing up a wall to cut off mature communication. It also loses its value when that's the only mode of communication ... tell him to save the finger for when he *really* wants to make a point, otherwise it make him look really, really juvenile, and you don't believe that's the point he's trying to get across

[SydneyHeart]

Thanks Quankanne. Some good ideas, and I will def look into some counselling alternatives as you mention. You absolutely hit the nail on the head with the description of what flipping someone off does, that's exactly how I felt.

 

Question is - does it all mean that they never grow up? I mean there are some really insightful men on these pages who seem to accept grown up responsibilities such as <Gasp> discussing stuff.

 

I read something that really stuck with me - about how the goal is to reach an "enthusiastic agreement". Thats what I'm aiming for. Why do many men seem to think it's about who gets their way this time?

[Wedded25]

I just spoke to him. He says giving someone the finger or saying F YOU (yes, he's done that too) is just what poeple do when they are angry. I said it was aggressive and crossing the line in my opinion and he says that's just in my own little set of standards. According to him everyone does it. He also like to jab the air with his finger which I find very aggressive, and he says everyone does it and it's no worse than raising your voice.

 

Thoughts?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Civilized people (especially two married ones who made a promise to treat each other well) do NOT act like that.

 

Ignore me if I'm talking through my hat here, but: Try inflicting a particular mannerism and/or tone of voice he hates upon him for a little while. If he acts dismayed, tell him "every wife does it." Then abruptly switch it off in mid-conversation, so he can see firsthand the effects of one's choice of communication style, and that every wife doesn't do it. Might this work?

[luvstarved]

Syd, I've been married for 10 years, I really started trying to work it out 8 years ago. After a year, I ended up going on antidepressant meds for MY "emotional problems" and finally got off of them a year ago. My emotional problems never really existed, but I let him snow me into thinking they did.

Now I am on the verge of leaving because of his anger and emotional distance, not to mention a long term lack of sex (also my fault, apparently).

 

I bought a book on verbal abuse before I even married him but told myself he was nervous and our marrying was a huge change that he was adjusting to (he'd lived with his parents to the age of 38, when we got married). Ha ha.

 

You know, I can understand at some level the "F you"s and flips, everybody goes a little too far occasionally. I would think more about what brings them on, is this his response to a legitimate complaint, or him having a hissy fit over not having things his way? Mind you, I don't think "everybody does it" nor that it is a "normal" response, only that I would be more optimistic IF YOU CAN SEE WHAT HE WAS MAD ABOUT. If it is over something you can relate to in some way, then there is a better chance for you to get him to realize that his behavior is hurtful - to get him to listen and acknowledge and generally give a s**t about your feelings and try to change.

 

It sounds more like he is defending his behavior and genuinely thinks that it is "right" and "acceptable". Not knowing all the details, I still say "red flag red flag".

 

This is the most frustrating part of living with someone like this. Knowing that even in the deepest part of themselves, they think they are normal and justified and that YOU are the one with the problem.

 

Sigh.

[Ladyjane14]

 

I just spoke to him. He says giving someone the finger or saying F YOU (yes, he's done that too) is just what poeple do when they are angry. I said it was aggressive and crossing the line in my opinion and he says that's just in my own little set of standards. According to him everyone does it. He also like to jab the air with his finger which I find very aggressive, and he says everyone does it and it's no worse than raising your voice.

 

 

Hold the phone! ... not EVERYONE flips their partner off when they're mad. C'mon.

 

It sounds like you two just don't know how to communicate properly. You've got little kids and lots of stress, and instead of coming together in partnership... each of you is trying to take the helm and be in charge. And each of you will naturally resent the other for doing it. That's going to put you into an adversarial position with each other rather than behaving as team mates.

 

To begin with... it does no good to love somebody if they can't feel your love. I'm betting you're not really feeling 'the love' when your husband's flying the bird.

 

So, what you want to do is to identify ways in which the other person does best recognize and feel love. Each person is a little different in this. One of the easiest explanations on the market comes to us in Gary Chapman's The Five Love Languages. It not the "be all and end all" of marital self-help books, but it's a good first step in learning about ENs (emotional needs), so it's definitely well worth the time to read.

 

His premise is that there are basically five "love languages" and that our partner best recognizes our love when we speak to them in their language. Say for example, that you are a person who best recognizes love through "Acts of Service", and you feel more appreciated when your husband cleans the dishes without being asked or expecting a reward. But maybe HE is a "Words of Affirmation" person and maybe it's been a month since you told him what a great guy he is, or even worse maybe he feels that you've criticized him recently, which would be in direct opposition to his "love language".

 

If you're BOTH not getting what you need from the other, you're both experiencing a love deficit, your "love tank" is running on fumes as it were. Then you throw in poor communications styles on top of that and you're in REAL TROUBLE.

 

A good start on fixing the communications problems would be to read through a copy of Love Busters by Willard Harley. Here, you'd find some basic rules to help you avoid speaking to each other in ways which impede the flow of love. You can get an overview at his Marriagebuilders website. In fact, you'd do well to read through the entire Basic Concepts section as well as his article "Why Women Leave Men". This is a good way to explain to a guy what you're looking for in the way of emotional intimacy because it's put into a very easy-to-understand format.

 

The premise of both these authors is that 'the flow of love' in your relationship is based on the deposit and withdrawal of love units. So, once you start looking at it that way, you become aware of things that you might inadvertently be doing which can deplete the other guy's account.

 

Getting out to marriage counseling might not be in your budget right now, but you can begin by doing a little homework until you can get your money together. You might give your health insurance company a call, btw. Who knows? ... alot of them are offering coverage these days.

 

In the interim, remember that if you're doing "homework" together that everybody works at their own pace. So be patient and try not to make it into a big chore. Spending an hour together in the evening, reading aloud IN BED... can make learning these new skills a team effort and improve ALL KINDS of intimacy.

:bunny:

[justpassingthrough]

Does anyone out there see or recognise anything?

 

Maybe, and it comes from this statement:

 

Like, for example, he doesnt understand why he needs to "check in" with me if he wants to drop by and visit a friend after work. I don't see why he wouldn't call and ask me if I mind first.

 

I believe our perceptions form our realities. I also believe people don't always hear what we say, they hear their interpretation of it.

 

FWIW, checking in isn't the same as asking you if you mind. Nonetheless, put yourself in his shoes. He wants to stop over a friend's after work, but in order to do that he has to "check in" and "see" if you "mind." It appears to me that he's interpreting it to mean he has to ask permission.

 

I believe you two have a power struggle going on. Not that it excuses his behavior - grown-ups don't treat each other that way, and married people certainly don't.

 

And could you please clarify what you mean when you say you ask him to leave? I don't understand if that's go away and cool off or get out of my sight forever and ever.

[SydneyHeart]

Luvstarved: odd because I have been wondering about anti depressants...and hubby would love it if I could take a pill and magically be cheerful all of the time of course..and where you say

 

"This is the most frustrating part of living with someone like this. Knowing that even in the deepest part of themselves, they think they are normal and justified and that YOU are the one with the problem"

 

This is a concern also for me. I keep telling him if this is how he feels, he needs to tell me, instead of "coming around" so to speak until the next time it all blows up.

 

LadyJane: Thank you for all of that info. You always seem to have such even handed responses! You did hit on something interesting when you say each of us is trying to take charge. I think he is just trying to be the boss of HIM still, and I am trying to TEACH him how to communicate. Both come down to trying to run the show I suppose. You're right, some reading will help. The whole love bank stuff though - I'm exhausted just reading about it We have 2 children under 4, both at home, with me, all day, and hubby is also away a LOT during the work week. So, I confess, I most likely don't make too many love bank deposits in any given week!!

 

JustPassingThrough: I appreciate hearing that married people don't treat each other that way. Sometimes it seems he treats me worse than anyone he has ever known in his life, because I have the pleasure of being his wife. I often ask him what he would say to me if I was his buddy so and so? He always says he would speak differently.

 

When I ask him to leave, it's primarilly to

a) Protect children from hearing a scene

b) Make it clear that I do not see that behaviour as OK, nor do I want our daughters thinking its ok to be treated like that

c) Give everyone some space. I cant go, I am at home with the kids, he works.

 

However, if he doesn't come around and insists that the finger is perfectly fine, then i don't want him to come back.

 

Finally - an update for those who may be interested.

 

We have made a plan for future arguments that he will leave (for time out) the second either I ask him to or someone's voice is raising etc. And that he will come back only when we feel more ready to communicate openly.

 

That's a start.

 

However I think he still feels that the aggressive behaviour is my fault. He says I instigate arguments purposely. Of course in my opinion the arguments only become arguments as opposed to discussions when I feel he is shutting down and totally blocking communication.

 

He asked me "Well, I mean, do we have to discuss EVERY SINGLE THING?"

 

And I'm like "well, yeah, pretty much - and you have to LIKE IT!"

 

I'm not talking about what shirt to wear today, of course, but if one person sees a need to discuss, then YEP a discussion is needed.

 

Do you guys think this is a man infliction? The aversion to discussions? Or is it just very common? And why??

 

You guys are ALL FABULOUS and deserve nothing but the best. Thanks for your time and input

[Mr. Lucky]

Finally - an update for those who may be interested.

 

We have made a plan for future arguments that he will leave (for time out) the second either I ask him to or someone's voice is raising etc. And that he will come back only when we feel more ready to communicate openly.

Well, just an observation, but it sounds like you are already treating him like one of your children. Leave for a "time out" ? The second you ask him to?

 

You guys need to find a way to relate to each other as equals. If you talked down to me like that, I'd probably flip you off too...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ladyjane14]

Well, just an observation, but it sounds like you are already treating him like one of your children. Leave for a "time out" ? The second you ask him to?

 

 

Mr Lucky has an excellent point. The LAST thing you want to do is to step into the parenting role with your spouse.. or to allow your mate to cast you in that role. Nothing but trouble can come from it. It's a direct and non-stop route leading straight to RESENTMENT for both parties.

 

Even the most rebellious teen has NOTHING on an adult who perceives himself as being "parented" by his partner.

 

Think of it this way, if you see your mate as an authority figure in your life, you are no longer required to take on that particular job for yourself. You've got somebody else managing your choices. 'Pulling the wool over their eyes' can become a challenge, a game in which you can flout that authority. Because you're not really answering directly to yourself for the integrity of your choices.. it becomes a matter of 'what you can get away with'.

 

This is just bad ju-ju... to be avoided at all costs.

 

 

You did hit on something interesting when you say each of us is trying to take charge. I think he is just trying to be the boss of HIM still, and I am trying to TEACH him how to communicate. Both come down to trying to run the show I suppose.

 

Actually, for the reasons I just mentioned... I think you'll do well to WANT him to 'be the boss of himself'. Believe me, this is NOT a job you're gonna want laid on you. It's a very difficult dynamic to put away once it gets started.

 

Taking on the role of "teacher" isn't any different than assuming the responsibilities of being his "parent". It allows him to see you as some kind of authority figure in his life, to be resented and rebelled against.

 

...some reading will help. The whole love bank stuff though - I'm exhausted just reading about it We have 2 children under 4, both at home, with me, all day, and hubby is also away a LOT during the work week. So, I confess, I most likely don't make too many love bank deposits in any given week!!

 

You're not receiving many 'love bank deposits' either.

That's going to put you "in the red". That probably has alot to do with how emotionally exhausted you might be feeling and how difficult it may be for you to make "deposits" in turn.

 

But reading these resources and others like them is IMPERATIVE if you want to keep the marriage and family dynamic. People aren't born knowing how to be married. It's a skill set, which is LEARNED just like any other.

 

I hate to be 'the harbinger of doom and gloom', but based on your previous posts, I believe your marriage WILL eventually fail unless changes are made.

[Woggle]

So according to you you nag him and pick at him and he has to like it? I can see why he is shutting down when his wife has that attitude. K am not saying he is perfect but it seems like you see him as 100% of the problem while you do nothing wrong. Maybe if you started looking at your role in this he would be more willing to listen to what you have to say.

[SydneyHeart]

Mr Lucky - I don't tell hubby to go have a time out. I tell him to leave when things are getting out of control. I have to, because he doesn't remove himself, and I can't go unless I pack up the kids. I just used the time out phrase because he himself prefers it. If things are about to escalate and I tell him I need some space/time - what's wrong with us having a plan that he will give me that at that time, instead of staying and having it escalate? Point being, we are clearly not at the point where we can both remain calm and in control when we get frustrated/angry etc, so this is the best plan we can think of for the mean time. If you have any other suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them

 

Lady Jane - Likewise, I don't think I am parenting my hubby. But I do think I am more aware of how we communicate and where our problems lie, and I try to share that with him. For example he doesn't see how the finger can be interpreted as aggressive and as a communication blocker, but I do. So, I mean can't I explain stuff to him like that? When I say he wants to be boss of him, I never said I wanted to be boss of him. Lordy no. Just that I want to be involved, and he sees that involvement sometimes as me taking over his life. He's like "Why do I have to tell you that?" and I'm like "Why can't I be involved?"

 

And I know my marriage will not survive if it stays the same. I wouldn't want it to for one thing.

 

Woggle - I'm interested to understand how you interpret what happened as me nagging and picking at him. I'm also unsure what gave you the impression that I thought I had no role whatsoever in our issues. I have never claimed that. I DO lose control when I get frustrated and I DO raise my voice. I need to work on that. I do also feel that he crosses the line though. I don't think raised voice is the same thing as cussing or gesturing. Interested to hear others views.

[Ladyjane14]

... I don't think I am parenting my hubby.

 

This is one of those issues where it doesn't much matter what you think. Perception is the truth in the eye of the beholder. IOW, if your husband perceives you to be "authoritative", even if you are not, his reaction to your stimulus will be the same as if you were. It's that "reaction" which can cause problems.

 

I've learned to avoid what few controlling behaviors I had previous to the crisis in my marriage. But to be honest... they were minimal. The problem was MOSTLY in my husband's head. His "perception" was to view me as some kind of authority figure in his life, and he had a tendency to treat me accordingly. The majority of the work we've done on that front is in reversing his 'hypnosis'.

 

I think maybe at the time he thought... that's just what wives do. Kind of like a social hypnosis.

He expected me to be "controlling", so that's how he saw me. And most of the time, I wasn't. Rather, I was reacting to his negative reaction. His "negative reaction" was based on his own perceptions concerning the underlying meaning of what were often benign actions on my part:

 

ie. A comment about how long the grass is getting would cause him to feel like I had ordered him to.... "GO-CUT-IT-RIGHT-THIS-VERY-MINUTE-YOU-LAZY-A*HOLE".

 

It became a vicious cycle because I felt misunderstood, and quite often I was.

 

Now you might wonder why another person might "hear" something other than what you actually say. Frankly, I don't have an answer for that. I think in my husband's case alot of it would be initially triggered by an unrealistic sense of guilt.

 

So, in the above example about 'the grass getting long'... maybe he'd rather be taking a nap or watching the ball-game on TV, so he feels bad because he doesn't WANT to do his chores first.

 

Now it's NOT me who thinks he should. It's actually HIM. I don't give a rat's hind leg about when the grass gets cut. I already know he'll get to it eventually. But because he thinks he should do it right now... he assumes that's what I believe too. This gives him a new target for his angry feelings. These feelings began as self-inflicted anger at himself, but because he "perceives" me as an authority figure... he's redirecting that anger onto me.

 

 

But I do think I am more aware of how we communicate and where our problems lie, and I try to share that with him. For example he doesn't see how the finger can be interpreted as aggressive and as a communication blocker, but I do. So, I mean can't I explain stuff to him like that?

 

I think that's sort of a 'yes and no' question.

You never want to come off as condescending, like he's so stupid he needs instruction. You don't want to 'tote the note' on his reaction to that, which in this case is likely to be that you think you're smarter than he is.

 

But... you don't have to put up with somebody treading on your personal boundaries either. So if your boundary is... "I am NOT going to engage in disrespectful communications", then you have to patrol that boundary. If he wants to talk to you... he needs to keep a civil tongue in his head and keep his fingers to himself. Otherwise, he doesn't get the privilege of talking with you.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr Lucky - I don't tell hubby to go have a time out. I tell him to leave when things are getting out of control. I have to, because he doesn't remove himself, and I can't go unless I pack up the kids. I just used the time out phrase because he himself prefers it. If things are about to escalate and I tell him I need some space/time - what's wrong with us having a plan that he will give me that at that time, instead of staying and having it escalate? Point being, we are clearly not at the point where we can both remain calm and in control when we get frustrated/angry etc, so this is the best plan we can think of for the mean time. If you have any other suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them

 

Lady Jane - Likewise, I don't think I am parenting my hubby.

 

As Ladyjane pointed out, I'm sure he also doesn't feel he's being childish with you. You both seem to be focused on the OTHER person's conduct when you should be more concerned about YOUR demeanor. If you treated him respectfully - and you may argue that you do now, but the tone of your post suggests otherwise - he'd have less opportunity to treat you disrespectfully. Think about and work on changing your role in this - when it comes down to it, that's the only part you can completely control anyway. You may then see a change in him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[SydneyHeart]

So I should make some changes in order to see a change in his behaviour? I see your point. I guess I feel so hurt right now that I want to see that act of goodwill from him.

 

He went to see a counsellor (a marriage guidance one, not a personal one) on his own, just because we couldnt manage to get there together yet. I asked him after how it was and he said he'd tell me about it later. So later I asked questions about it, like what did they discuss, did he think it showed promise, was it encouraging etc. He treated each question like it was an interrogation. He asked if we could talk about it later, I said fine. He said we'd talk about it Monday, I said OK.

 

So tonight we're getting ready for bed and I said "Oh, we never got around to discussing the counsellor!" and he says "Its late", I say "yes I know I'm just saying cos I just thoguht of it, and you obviously forgot too" and next thing I know we are shouting and I have to ask him to leave me alone because he is saying mean completely irrelevant things and now I am in tears again and it just hurts so much.

 

All I want is to be with someone who is equally interested in talking about stuff. And if thats not what he wants, then I want him to say that, so we can at least know we want different things and move on from there, but he always comes back and says he wants to be with someone where everything is discussed and shared, but when comes time to discuss and share he clams up and treats me like Madam inquisitioner.

 

Then to defend himself against my questioning he throws as much mud as he can lay his hands on at me - like every complaint he can possibly think of in one long sentence, one after the other after the other - bringing the next up before I have even responded to the first.

 

I guess I have to decide do I a) want to try to save my marriage by attempting to change my own behaviour or b) give up on the marriage because he has NOT decided to try and change his behaviour.

 

I just don't even think I have the energy to try.....

 

Anyone have a plan c?

[Woggle]

He probably feels like it is an interogation. Right now he is in defense because he feels like his wife hates him so he will be closd off and won't open up. He can feel the resentment that you have against him so he is just trying to get through the day without an argument. He is just trying to navigate his way through the landmine without getting blown up and believe me this is probably the way he feels. When he feels safe that you won't chew him out he will open up.

[Mr. Lucky]

Then to defend himself against my questioning he throws as much mud as he can lay his hands on at me - like every complaint he can possibly think of in one long sentence, one after the other after the other - bringing the next up before I have even responded to the first.

My ex wife used to fight the same way - I called it "dropping the bomb". We'd be argueing over something as small as whose turn it was to walk the dog and she'd suddenly say "Oh yeah, well you're lousy in bed!". WTF? Where did that come from?

 

I feel for you. It's a very destructive way to interact and ensures that the hurt feelings involved prevent you from ever solving anything. Hang in there

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sheba]

Sydney

 

I am sorry to say that I read a "parenting" tone into what you write about your husband. For example:

 

-You say he must leave because you would have to pack up the kids if you were the one to leave. Why? Why can the father of those children not take care of them? I don't care how young they are - surely he can be alone with them for an hour or two while you both cool off?

 

-In your very first post you used the phrase "guidance counsellor" instead of marriage counsellor or therapist. A guidance counsellor works in a school, with children.

 

-Your husband is to call and see if you "mind" if he goes out, rather than call you to let you know he is going out and when he plans to be home.

 

Now, this is no criticism, I assure you. I was forced into the role of mother with my first husband and HATED it. I did not want to make every decision - and be responsible for every bad one, of course. I had no wish to leave him a "chore list" - he could see for himself what needed to be done! Worst of all, I did not like him sneaking around precisely as if I were his mom.

 

I think you are being tricked and trapped into the same *****ty role and it is no wonder you hate it. You need an equal partner that can take care of things (like the kids!) and can be relied upon to do some of the housework and who will share his life with you.

 

You really do need to be in counselling together, I am certain, so you can both break out of this parent-child role playing you are doing. It will only get worse, I assure you! To this day, my exhusband calls me every time he has a problem or a decision to make - I left him TEN years ago!