Is it true that betrayal sometimes improves the marriage?

[Andy L]

Is it true that betrayal SOMETIMES improves the relationship in the marriage?

 

I mean for example some hubbies work better their marriage after been cheated by their wives?

 

Is it possible?

[a4a]

Interesting because I have come to wonder this myself and may look for applicants to fulfill OM position for me. Nah - just a thought I have had.

[JackJack]

Personally, I can't see where any kind of betrayal would help to improve a marriage.

[StayClose]

Sometimes, a betrayal can be a wake-up call to a spouse to get his/her act together. For example, if someone thinks that sex is not important and their furstrated partner cheats, that can be a wake-up call that sex IS important.

 

But it could also destroy the relationship. In my own case, I've tried telling her that I'm using porn, especially after having my advances turned down a few times ina row. I've been thinking about having an affair a lot lately, but I haven't told her because 1) I'm reluctant to use blackmail games, and 2) It may make her MORE insecure and LESS likely to be sexual with me.

 

Please understand that I don't want to have an affair, especially when I consider what I REALLY want, which is to have a healthy sex life with my wife. I'd just like to have sex more than once a month and with someone who's not doing it just because they feel obligated. There doesn't seem to be any way to do that other than with someone else.

[JackJack]

Sometimes, a betrayal can be a wake-up call to a spouse to get his/her act together. For example, if someone thinks that sex is not important and their furstrated partner cheats, that can be a wake-up call that sex IS important.

 

 

I understand this, BUT it can also be a "wake up call" for someone who feels sex isn't that important, to seperate rather cheat. I would think seperating could be just as effective without breaking that trust barrier for cheating.

 

However, if a person who is really intuned into their marraige and wanting to try to make it work, A, wouldn't feel the need/want to not have sex as much and B. the person in need/want of sex, wouldn't cheat.

[whichwayisup]

Just curious Andy, but are writing a book or something? You havent' shared much info about yourself, yet you start alot of threads asking questions.

[Andy L]

Just curious Andy' date=' but are writing a book or something? You havent' shared much info about yourself, yet you start alot of threads asking questions.[/quote']

 

 

ok whichwayisup

I'm not married yet. I just have a fiancée but not married.

And yes I would like to write something on troubles in marriage, but just don't have time through these days.

I'm interesting in relationship matters, I have some married friends in troubles and bad experiences I would like to help them if I can get more information about it.

 

[JackJack]

ok whichwayisup

I'm not married yet. I just have a fiancée but not married.

And yes I would like to write something on troubles in marriage, but just don't have time through these days.

I'm interesting in relationship matters, I have some married friends in troubles and bad experiences I would like to help them if I can get more information about it.

 

 

 

So is one of your friends thinking of cheating because they are having trouble in their marriage? If so, what would YOUR advice be to them? How do you feel about betrayal improving a marriage or not?

[Andy L]

So is one of your friends thinking of cheating because they are having trouble in their marriage? If so, what would YOUR advice be to them? How do you feel about betrayal improving a marriage or not?

 

my personal answer is NO WAY!

It's the worst choice ever done!!!

The good marriages will never need something like that.

But I know some people think so, not my opinion...

[a4a]

I think we should find out and I am willing to volunteer.

 

Lets start by having LSers send me flowers, cards, gifts, and plane tickets. I will report back here immediatley if this helps or hinders my M.

[FireandIce]

Cheating sometimes makes the other spouse wake up to how they are acting and so on but it isn't a complete fix. If you don't work on the problems that caused the cheating as well as the other things wrong with your relationship then it will only be a quick fix. Things will be great for awhile because you are trying to prove to your spouse that you can change or whatever but eventually things will go back to the way they were before the cheating happened if you don't work on everything else.

[Trialbyfire]

I can vouch that it killed my marriage. So my response would be a significant "NO".

[nancyleeh]

No. Betrayal is not a healthy intelligent way to improve a marraige. If there is a problem in the marriage why add a second problem to solve the first? There are sensible ways to improve a marraige and if positive solutions don't bring results and you can't live with the marriage as is, then it's time to think about ending the marriage.

 

nancyleeh

[michelangelo]

if someone cheats. BTW, don't get it in your mind that you are doing something therapeutic for your marriage by cheating.

 

that said, some, not even most, but some marriages recover to a better level than they were with the help of professional counseling to guide the couple away from negative things and towards positive things.

 

I think of the recovery from a betrayal more like having your legs paralyzed and then becoming a really great wheelchair basketball player.

 

as good a you may be at it you sure wish you could run again.

[luvstarved]

Betrayal: not good.

 

Yes it is true that sometimes a betrayal will catapult a marriage into a crisis and after much pain, counseling, etc, things could be "better than ever".

 

But cheating in the first place is a SIGN of trouble. Why can't people get into counseling and get honest and open and willing to meet needs BEFORE it comes to that? In that case, there isn't that nagging little truth in the background that never entirely forgets. Just the "better than ever".

 

Saying that betrayal is good for a marriage is like saying a heart attack is good for your health. It might make you wake up and start to take proper care of things...but damage has already been done that may never be fully repaired.

[Till-Andy]

Somebody who is unsatisfied with the state of his business racks his brains to find ways to improve ist. He makes lists of ideas and then ponders which one would bring the best results. And finally decides to test this one or that one.

Now replace business by relationsship or marriage and this one or that one by betrayal.

Well I think you'll agree that it never functions like that. Nobody designs a betrayal as a method to achive a goal. A betrayal happens. And it happens because there is a motivation, a yearning, an unresolvable problem, a need, a starving for something and so on.

This way becoming physical with somebody is an indicator that something is wrong in the main relationship. It is the result, not the cause of a crisis, or as lovestarved puts it

cheating in the first place is a SIGN of trouble.

then she continues

Why can't people get into counseling and get honest and open and willing to meet needs BEFORE it comes to that?

Very good question, indeed.

To "get honest and open" is the better solution in any case. But: this appeal applies to both partners! The one who has been cheated must ask him- or herself if she or he has always had an open ear for the wishes, sorrows, needs and fantasies of the other.

Often a string of rejections, rebukes and mortifications has been experienced before someone is available for an intruder.

 

Saying that betrayal is good for a marriage is like saying a heart attack is good for your health.

And what!? a heart attack is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's life and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of lives.

A betrayal is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's relationship and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of marriages.

So let's not be too moral when talking about what we call betrayal and when we judge somebody who has committed it. There is always a story behind the story.

[luvstarved]

To "get honest and open" is the better solution in any case. But: this appeal applies to both partners! The one who has been cheated must ask him- or herself if she or he has always had an open ear for the wishes, sorrows, needs and fantasies of the other.

Often a string of rejections, rebukes and mortifications has been experienced before someone is available for an intruder.

 

And what!? a heart attack is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's life and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of lives.

A betrayal is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's relationship and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of marriages.

So let's not be too moral when talking about what we call betrayal and when we judge somebody who has committed it. There is always a story behind the story.

 

I quite agree Andy. When I asked WHY can't people just take care of their marriage in the first place, it came from frustration, not moral judgment. I am having plenty of probs in my own marriage and the frustration of trying to repair things is high.

 

I certainly did not mean to imply that I thought betrayal was always morally inexcuseable, although I will say I personally would not excuse it

But I don't think it is ever the "healthy choice". S**t happens, but I

have made it clear to my H that it is unequivocally a dealbreaker for me.

If he can't work it out with me, then better he should move on than try

to get half his needs met one place and half another.

 

Bottom line, in response to the question of whether betrayal is ever

"good", I stand by "NO".

[ThumbingMyWay]

Is it true that betrayal SOMETIMES improves the relationship in the marriage?

 

I mean for example some hubbies work better their marriage after been cheated by their wives?

 

Is it possible?

 

 

Ya know...I have said this before.....

 

my wifes affair was bittersweet. Bitter because of the pain we both had to endure....it will be 3 years since d-day 1 this July....wow...3 years makes me wonder where it all went.

 

The steps and path we took after the affair ended...was difficult and painfull. but we did and still are enduring this mistake on my wifes part. it sucks big time that we had to go through this....

 

BUT....its also sweet that it happend. Meaning, it was a HUGE wakeup call for both of us. We both have now entered a state of marriage where we have new bounderies, complete communication and we both know what we need to do to make this marriage work for both of us. And the emotional/intimacy part of our marriage has evolved for the better for us both. The sex is like it was before children....if not better at times. We are now doing things for each other that we hadnt in the past. In fact the other day my wife said to me...."after all these years together (20), she wonders where my NEW style came from....she didnt know I had it in me" She is very satistified with it and so am I. In fact we are doing things we always wanted to or fanticized about, where in the past we may have been unwilling or hesitant to ask for.

 

 

So all in all......we have endured the pain for the most part...I still get flashbacks of anger...but seldom. So I can say, my post affair marriage relationship is ALOT better than the 3 or 4 years leading up to the affair.

[nancyleeh]

Thumbingmyway,

 

It's good you and your wife have worked through the affair. I think you are an exception in that both of you worked hard to mend your relationship which, from my experience, does not happen in most marriages.

 

But I would never recommend having an affair in hopes that it will strengthen a marriage because most times, it does not.

 

nancyleeh

[LabradorsGalor]

Thumbing My Way ...I was reading this thread and starting to get a little depressed. My wife are about 4 months into me discovering she had an affair at the beginning of the year. We have been growing apart for a long while and largely had a sexless marriage...her choosing not mine...she tells me she sout out the affair because I had become emotionally absent in the relationship - which is true.

 

Now we both have agreed to work on our marriage and see if we can create a positive relationship. We are working on intimacy, communication, and eventually sex. I've been a bit skeptical that things will get better but have been working hard on my relationship with her. However, things are slow to change for both of us, but getting better. I've been wondering if I'm doing the right thing and thought several times I should try to speak with someone that is going through something similar - Someone who has had to ask himself/herself, "is it worth giving this personanother chance?" and is doing it.

 

We are both seeing individual counselors and have started seeing a marriage counselor so we have the right support network. You're comments and advice and thoughts would be appreciated.

[Till-Andy]

@LG,

I just posted in yout thread so I do not want to put the same things here. Your working on the marriage with both individual counselors and marriage counselors it a good way by all means.

That's what we did (my second wife and I) two years ago. Successfully. But we had other issues, not sex. Sex ist our strong side as you can see in my above mentioned post. And good sex can be a wonderful and efficient welder.

[silktricks]

I can't imagine anyone deciding to have an affair in an effort to strengthen their marriage. Anyone who would do that would need to have something fairly far off-center in their head.

 

That doesn't mean, though, that IF the marriage survives an affair that it isn't stronger than it was before the affair. The affair, though, isn't what made it stronger, the survival is.

 

We've all heard the saying "whatever doesn't kill you will make you stronger", well, it's the same for a marriage. There aren't very many marriages that survive infidelity. Those that do survive as a marriage, (not just two people living in the same house angry and bitter - just sticking it out for the sake of the kids, etc.) are stronger by virtue of the hard work that both partners put into fixing the marriage after D-Day.

[Trialbyfire]

And what!? a heart attack is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's life and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of lives.

You can't compare cheating to a heart attack. You've in effect suggested that the cheater is innocent or is reacting, which would be very, very wrong. A cheater is solely responsible for his/her actions.

 

The dissolution of a marriage is separate and distinct. If a cheater is unhappy with the marriage, they should be discussing their issues. If there's no compromise on both sides, the marriage ends.

 

Cheating is deceitful and an incredibly selfish passive-aggressive form of revenge, if the cheater is dissatisfied with his/her marriage. Unhappy? Get some balls and work on the issues first instead of blaming someone else for forcing the cheater do this...

 

A betrayal is a serious warning that something has to be changed in someone's relationship and the execution of that warning has saved a lot of marriages.

 

So let's not be too moral when talking about what we call betrayal and when we judge somebody who has committed it. There is always a story behind the story.

 

Simply put, an affair is the moral degradation of the two knowing parties involved, whereby through selfish actions they make a choice to indulge.

[nancyleeh]

Nobody designs a betrayal as a method to achive a goal. A betrayal happens. And it happens because there is a motivation, a yearning, an unresolvable problem, a need, a starving for something and so on.

 

Whether one has an affair as a means to a goal or is motivated by problems in a marraige or a yearning, need or starving for something or for any reason, betrayal never 'just happens'. I have yet to see or hear of anyone who had an affair who did not actively participate from the get go. I've never seen an offender who did not use their brain and emotions and their body unwillingly in the act. Betrayel is an active, participating action and not something that....oops, just happens kind of thing.

 

nancyleeh

[Till-Andy]

Whether one has an affair as a means to a goal or is motivated by problems in a marraige or a yearning, need or starving for something or for any reason, betrayal never 'just happens'. I have yet to see or hear of anyone who had an affair who did not actively participate from the get go. I've never seen an offender who did not use their brain and emotions and their body unwillingly in the act. Betrayel is an active, participating action and not something that....oops, just happens kind of thing.

nancyleeh

While I am quite sure, Nancy that I cannot change your opinion about extramarital realtionships (We are all here to imprint our opinions to others, not to change ours, don't we?), I want to take your answer as an inducement to refine my posting a bit. "Betrayal just happens" is indeed easily misunderstood because it's clear that from a certain point even the seduced partner must "do" something. What I wanted to convey is that - and I am talking about my own case 20 years ago - when someone is starved for years he or she is an easy prey for an intruder: helpless, defenceless, willing but not necessarily active. That's not meant as an excuse, just as an explanation.

@ trialbyfire: All discussions making the "cheater" a criminal and the other partner a poor victim are idle. No counselor would ever have any success with such a procedure.

Cheating is deceitful and an incredibly selfish passive-aggressive form of revenge, if the cheater is dissatisfied with his/her marriage. Unhappy? Get some balls and work on the issues first instead of blaming someone else for forcing the cheater do this...

I just checked my balls and can tell you that I took nearly 22 years to work on the issues. Then decided to go. You may blame me for blaming someone else ....

And you really want to appeal to all who once made a faux pas to leave their partners in the instant?