Men, Long Distance, and Cheating

[NoMoreJerks]

OK, I know this might be stereotyping men, but we all have heard the usual line (mostly from men, ironically) that men have a higher sex drive than women, need sex more often, etc.

 

So I was wondering how men deal with long distance relationships, which are very long distance (Europe/North American for example)? Does it mean that they will cheat / go see hookers? I mean, I can't imagine cheating on my guy even though we're doing long distance, but I am not so sure that he might not cheat / see a hooker...?

 

I don't really have trust issues per se -- my major problem with my bf is that after 2 break-ups I *do* hesitate to believe everything he says, and also, I am highly vigilant when it comes to strange behaviours...

 

Today was one of those times that I wondered whether he was with someone. He is currently working in Turkey, so the only person he'd probably be with, would be a prostitute, because I think women in Turkey (even in westernized parts of it) are pretty conservative / might not have premarital sex, etc.

 

Anyway, he claimed last night that he was going out with his (guy) friend, and that they were gonna get very drunk... He did not text me today until about 2pm his time (the day after he was supposed to go out drinking)... He then texted me about 4 hours later, at about 6 pm his time, and claimed he was "still at work", but the location of the texts (on the app) were the location of his hotel..... then, I think he realized that he had forgotten to untick the location option, and turned off his phone, because he was scared that I might have realized it and gone off on him... when I sent him mssges on that app, he did not get them (it said "sent", but not "delivered")... then he got on Skype much later in the day (an hour ago), and we talked for a bit... I asked him what had happened to that app, and why he wasn't receiving my mssges -- he claimed the app had acted weird and that he had turned off his phone as a result...

 

Now, granted, all this may have in fact happened... but.... I am suspicious. This is very suspicious behaviour...

 

I don't know how to deal with this..

 

Women who are reading this thread: how do u deal with situations when there are enough grounds for suspicion? Do you not say anything -- let it go the first couple of times? Do you say something right away? What do you say, without sounding too paranoid/crazy?

 

I mean, it is possible that the location shown by the app was wrong, that he was really at work but that the app had instead put the location he had last mssged me from (the hotel)... but what are the odds?

 

There is a lot I am willing to put up with -- his crappy behaviour with me thus far, including 2 break-ups so far initiated by him -- but cheating is NOT one of them. There is no way I can stay with a guy who has cheated. I have a strong feeling that he was with someone, but I have no evidence -- only some clues, which may or may not be due to a malfunctioning app. Am I being too paranoid?

Edited February 7, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[LittleTiger]

If your instincts are telling you that he's being unfaithful and you can't trust him, then what are you doing in a relationship with him? Don't you deserve someone who loves you and respects you enough to be open with you about what he needs and to remain faithful if that's what he's promised?

 

If I had any reason to suspect my guy was 'getting involved' with another woman in some way, I would ask him outright. You could try doing the same but, if you already don't trust him, you probably won't get an honest answer.

 

Instincts should always be trusted IMO. If you think he's fooling about with other women then he probably is.

 

I'm really not sure why you stick it out with this guy - he's isn't exactly a Prince Charming is he?

[NoMoreJerks]

If your instincts are telling you that he's being unfaithful and you can't trust him, then what are you doing in a relationship with him? Don't you deserve someone who loves you and respects you enough to be open with you about what he needs and to remain faithful if that's what he's promised?

Well he has reassured me that he has not done anything... but again, I do not trust that his reassurances are really honest ones... he told me a week ago that he went out with his guy friend and that they went to this bar for drinks, and there were a lot of prostitutes there, and you're "supposed" to buy the prositutes drinks, in order to stay in the bar (this is in Turkey). So apparently they bought them drinks all night long... he told me all this.. he said, obviously nothing happened, but it's not so "obvious" to me..... What kind of guy would dish out a $100 in one night on drinks (in a country that is very cheap in terms of drinks, food, etc.), on some prostitute? Really? I mean... come on... And this is a guy who hasn't even given me a $10 gift... let alone a $100 one.... who never offered to pay for my meals , even though I paid for his several times, etc. Well, that was the first time that I got kinda annoyed... and he probably was telling me he spent time with the prostitutes because he thought it would make me less suspicious about what may have happened afterwards, if he told me that he did hang out with them (because , supposedly, if he were hiding something, he wouldn't have told me about hanging out with them in the first place?)? To be fair, that night that he supposedly hung out with those prostitutes with his buddy, he did text me after he got home, but he was too drink and couldn't text properly.. I don't know if he was really that drunk, if the fact that he texted me means he was alone, or if he just took a few minutes to text me, then went on with his "business" with the prostitute.. I have no idea. I may be a bit overvigilant, but can I be blamed? Considering what he has told me?

 

If I had any reason to suspect my guy was 'getting involved' with another woman in some way, I would ask him outright. You could try doing the same but, if you already don't trust him, you probably won't get an honest answer.

Well, I honestly think that his behaviour was extremely odd.... I always ignored red flags but I am no longer going to do that. I'm gonna go with my instinct and assume he did do something. He's coming to visit me in April -- he booked his flight the other week.. Once he leaves, though, I'm gonna give him the boot. If the ticket were refundable/exchangeable , I would've done it already, but it's not.

 

Instincts should always be trusted IMO. If you think he's fooling about with other women then he probably is.

Yeah.. I think you are right. I just wanted to hear what men might have to say about this -- is this a general problem with men and LDR, or is this guy just an *******? Or am I being too paranoid? etc. I can never be sure and can't trust my instincts 100%, because he always made me feel like I was imagining things...

 

I'm really not sure why you stick it out with this guy - he's isn't exactly a Prince Charming is he?

No. I have a feeling he's just using me. I didn't feel this way when we got back together, but 2 weeks since we got back together, the red flags are back up, or so it seems... this time, though, I know for a fact that it's not something *I* did wrong. the last 2 times, he spinned it in a way that made it look like I was clingy, needy, etc. But really, I have done none of that this time around. I am just taking it slowly and in a "whatever" sort of mentality so far, and look where that's gotten me...... him talking to me about buying prostitutes drinks all night long, and acting super-weird the day after he said he had gotten incredibly drunk..... to be fair though, when he's had alcohol, he can't hold an erection ... but still.... that doesn't mean he didn't take someone back to his hotel with him...

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's over between us, and the only thing I'm waiting for is more weird/overt behaviours that will just give me an excuse to tell him to f*ck off even before he comes to visit me.

[cerridwen]

I don't have the strength.

Suffice it to say you're not being paranoid, NMJ and the sooner you cut it off with this tool bag, the better.

[ana0pera]

I would be very interested to hear a man's perspective on this question...

 

A thing I would consider when thinking about cheating and LDR in general is what a person is like when he/she is not in a relationship. I think a person who is constantly hooking up with random people when they're single is more likely to cheat in an LDR than a person who is celibate when single is likely to cheat. That of course is a very big dichotomy I set up and it isn't black in white in real life. But I think that behavior is telling.

 

If a person feels like he/she needs sexual gratification in an LDR there are many ways to get it. They can do cybersex or phonesex with their partner, send intimate pictures back and forth, or they can go in another direction and find gratification outside of an LDR. Porn (which you both might be okay with), cheating (which you both might be okay with if you're relationship is open), etc.

 

 

Do you have any idea what your guy is like when he's not dating someone, NMJ? His recent behavior does sound a little sketchy. Personally, I don't think it's wrong to tell him that you don't want to see him if that is the case, if you think you're done with him and his weird ways. Don't keep giving him chance after chance b/c he doesn't seem to be worth it. He bought the ticket and it's not refundable, which sucks, but he also shouldn't have betrayed your trust. You don't owe him anything. His loss (both in terms of losing you and monetarily) but he did it to himself.

[NoMoreJerks]

Well, that's the strange thing about him: when I met him, he was not even acting like a player or aggressive . He seemed to be a shy , reserved guy just having a drink in the bar with his friend. He wasn't the one who started talking to me.. his friend did. If his friend had not talked to me, he would never have started talking to me... and he would never have approached any other girls.... but I think that depending on where he is, his behaviour changes. He is in Turkey at the moment, and he felt less self-confident in Canada -- an English-speaking country, compared to Turkey... I think... the way he talks about "taking" his co-worker to this or that bar, showing him around, etc., it feels like he is just very self-confident there.. unlike when he was here , around/with me. As for when he's back home in the UK, he mostly stays at home after work, watches movies/ TV shows, and smokes joints and drinks alcohol... Goes to the local pub like once or twice in a few weeks, but not much.. goes to see his parents for a few hours on a saturday or a sunday, and that's pretty much it... he does not strike me as a very outgoing/player type person, or someone who would be out there bedding women every day..... well, he may have done that on his trips to Thailand... I don't know.. he used to go there 4 times a year.. I think he's been there about 8 times in total. He claims he never had sex with a prostitute there... not sure if I should believe someone who has gone to the same country 8 times.... and has visited no other country... But aside from the possible sex tourism in Thailand, I think I may have been the first woman who is not a prostitute , with whom he had sex since his gf broke up with him 2 years ago.. I am not sure if most men would/can go without sex for 2 years... he claimed he had...

 

And he's a porn + threesome fantasy addict.

 

But again, like I said, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who would be doing one-night stands... In fact, I would find it hard to believe that he would even talk to hookers... he is such a shy/reserved guy who is nervous around strangers, he would never approach someone himself. I don't know. I think he's just been acting really weird every time he goes to Turkey... The last time he broke up with me, he was there as well, and he was acting very weird.... i wasn't sure what was going on...

 

Maybe he had slept with someone, and that's why he dumped me? And maybe that's why he's also been acting very weird with me since last night?? Even when I talked to him, he just seemed out of it / not very excited / kinda irritated actually. I am not sure why.. It's not like I acted clingy or texted him a lot, like in the past... In fact, I had told him to have a good time with his co-worker (because I didn't want to seem like I wanted him to stay in his hotel all the time and talk to me, I wanted him to have some "guy time")...

 

I have NO idea.

Edited February 8, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[amayana]

Well, it's 'scientifically proven' that women rather gain sexual desire through emotional connection and societal/cultural factors. It's also 'scientifically proven' that men think about sex more often and seek it out more avidly. (However, a bit more than a hundred years ago it was also 'scientifically proven' that women who rather wanted to educate themselves than be mothers and housewives were mentally ill so... yeah)

 

I think there are other ways, apart from seeing other women/prostitutes, for a man to compensate for the lack of physical intimacy in a relationship. I mean, there is masturbation. It's really down to choice and that's the essential point here. You know, men might think about sex more often and so on but that doesn't make them cave men. They can think critically, make decisions and choices. If he decides to screw prostitutes he knows what he's doing. Because he wants that. And he can choose whether he's going to tell you or not.

 

You having broken up twice, should make him do everything to not make you suspicious. He should not get completely drunk in bars full of prostitutes and spend all his money on them instead of buying you a nice souvenir from his trip. I think you do have reasons to not trust him in this. Especially after all that has happened.

 

It might be that you're a bit paranoid but he shouldn't encourage you to feel like that, which he's obviously doing...

[NoMoreJerks]

To be honest, he has done this whole "playing mind games" thing with me before.. trying to make me insecure by saying things like , how women (prostitutes or not) were all over him, etc. Regardless of whether or not it happened , that's not something you tell your gf.... unless you are intentionally trying to make her feel insecure and get her to do things for you that she would otherwise not do. Anyway, I have stopped feeling insecure about comments like that, or feeling threatened by it. It's not that I feel insecure -- it's just that I have no desire to be in a "relationship" and waste my time and energies (and money) on / with a guy who can't keep it in his pants.. even if the only option he has is dirty STD-infested hookers who sleep with thousands of men every year.

[NoMoreJerks]

You having broken up twice, should make him do everything to not make you suspicious. He should not get completely drunk in bars full of prostitutes and spend all his money on them instead of buying you a nice souvenir from his trip. I think you do have reasons to not trust him in this. Especially after all that has happened.

 

It might be that you're a bit paranoid but he shouldn't encourage you to feel like that, which he's obviously doing...

Well, that's the thing -- he might be one of those guys that don't know what to get their gfs, don't understand that it's nice/cute to get a souvenir for their gfs, etc. He went to Thailand and did not get me a souvenir from there.. when he was in Canada, he got a small souvenir (just keychains or something) for his parents. It took all of 2 minutes to buy it.. not that he put much effort into it, considering that they are his parents, but still.. I would've expected that I'd be worth at least 2 minutes and a few dollars... He didn't bring me anything from the UK either... well, other than marmite, which I had said I wanted to taste... but that's about it. Not that I was dying for him to get me anything. I'm an easy-going person, but you know, it would be nice to know that you're in someone's mind every now and then, and that he wants to do / get things for you, even if they might just cost a few bucks. I mean, seriously -- he has probably spent more money buying those prostitutes drinks, than he has spent buying me drinks (or food, or whatever). I don't need it since I make enough money and I am independent and don't expect anyone to pay for my meals, but now I'm wondering, that prostitute in Turkey is worth more than I am, in his eyes? Well, anyway, that hurts, but you know what, I think that tells more about him than it does about me.

Edited February 8, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[amayana]

To be honest, he has done this whole "playing mind games" thing with me before.. trying to make me insecure by saying things like , how women (prostitutes or not) were all over him, etc. Regardless of whether or not it happened , that's not something you tell your gf.... unless you are intentionally trying to make her feel insecure and get her to do things for you that she would otherwise not do. Anyway, I have stopped feeling insecure about comments like that, or feeling threatened by it. It's not that I feel insecure -- it's just that I have no desire to be in a "relationship" and waste my time and energies (and money) on / with a guy who can't keep it in his pants.. even if the only option he has is dirty STD-infested hookers who sleep with thousands of men every year.

 

Tbh, messing with your mind like that is plain wrong. It's emotional abuse. You don't do that to someone you love and care about. So if he is doing that deliberately you may want to consider breaking up but for real this time... I don't how much you told him about you feeling like that or if you've spoken enough about all of these issues that, I think, need to be addressed rather urgently.

[amayana]

Well, that's the thing -- he might be one of those guys that don't know what to get their gfs, don't understand that it's nice/cute to get a souvenir for their gfs, etc. He went to Thailand and did not get me a souvenir from there.. when he was in Canada, he got a small souvenir (just keychains or something) for his parents. It took all of 2 minutes to buy it.. not that he put much effort into it, considering that they are his parents, but still.. I would've expected that I'd be worth at least 2 minutes and a few dollars... He didn't bring me anything from the UK either... well, other than marmite, which I had said I wanted to taste... but that's about it. Not that I was dying for him to get me anything. I'm an easy-going person, but you know, it would be nice to know that you're in someone's mind every now and then, and that he wants to do / get things for you, even if they might just cost a few bucks. I mean, seriously -- he has probably spent more money buying those prostitutes drinks, than he has spent buying me drinks (or food, or whatever). I don't need it since I make enough money and I am independent and don't expect anyone to pay for my meals, but now I'm wondering, that prostitute in Turkey is worth more than I am, in his eyes? Well, anyway, that hurts, but you know what, I think that tells more about him than it does about me.

 

Yes and apparently he knows what to get his prostitutes but he doesn't know what to get his girlfriend, a person he loves? Just him hanging around in places like that (bars where prostitutes hang around)... doesn't that make you terribly uncomfortable? Do you know for a fact that he's hanging around in places like that or are you just assuming? I'm a very easy-going person myself but if my bf did stuff like that, well, he wouldn't be my bf.

[NoMoreJerks]

Tbh, messing with your mind like that is plain wrong. It's emotional abuse. You don't do that to someone you love and care about. So if he is doing that deliberately you may want to consider breaking up but for real this time... I don't how much you told him about you feeling like that or if you've spoken enough about all of these issues that, I think, need to be addressed rather urgently.

Well I haven't told him it upsets me. I feel like telling him that stuff would give him power over me. He loves mind games and power games. And if I ever mentioned something that had upset me, he'd threaten to break up with me.. so unless I was willing to entertain that possibility (and I wasn't back then), I couldn't talk to him about how I felt about his behaviour... Anyway.. I'm just withdrawing myself from this whole situation... if things don't get worse before April, I'll let him come, and when he leaves, I'll put an end for it, this time for good. My other worry is that if he's coming in April, we're probably going to have sex... and we always had unprotected sex. I assumed he was loyal. Now it's hard to bring up condoms because he's gonna feel like i don't trust him. I know it's my right and I should value my health, but I don't want the 2 weeks that he's here, to be hell... he's gonna be staying at my place... I don't know how to approach this issue... if he's slept with a prostitute or anyone else for that matter, while we were together, I don't want his d*ck to be anywhere near me let alone inside me in the first place, let alone without a condom.

[carhill]

Simply put, if you weren't attracted to him, and such attraction overrode common sense and healthy boundaries, this thread wouldn't exist. That's pretty much it. At some point a balance will be struck. I hope it ends up as a healthy balance for you.

 

Healthy males, husbands and boyfriends, deal with 'long distance' every day. We love our partners and believe in our relationships with them. That's it.

[amayana]

Well I haven't told him it upsets me. I feel like telling him that stuff would give him power over me. He loves mind games and power games. And if I ever mentioned something that had upset me, he'd threaten to break up with me.. so unless I was willing to entertain that possibility (and I wasn't back then), I couldn't talk to him about how I felt about his behaviour... Anyway.. I'm just withdrawing myself from this whole situation... if things don't get worse before April, I'll let him come, and when he leaves, I'll put an end for it, this time for good. My other worry is that if he's coming in April, we're probably going to have sex... and we always had unprotected sex. I assumed he was loyal. Now it's hard to bring up condoms because he's gonna feel like i don't trust him. I know it's my right and I should value my health, but I don't want the 2 weeks that he's here, to be hell... he's gonna be staying at my place... I don't know how to approach this issue... if he's slept with a prostitute or anyone else for that matter, while we were together, I don't want his d*ck to be anywhere near me let alone inside me in the first place, let alone without a condom.

 

Are you serious? He threatens you with a break-up whenever you voice your unhappiness? Really..? Don't you see what he's doing? That is a way of getting you completely under his control. It's emotional blackmail. So he can do whatever he wants to do whenever he feels like it because he knows he just needs to threaten you and you'll do whatever he wants. That's a great relationship, I must say. For him, at least.

Now, I suggest he stays wherever he is in April and you go and get yourself a man, a real man. Someone who cares and someone who doesn't blackmail you, woman. Have some dignity, seriously!!

[NoMoreJerks]

Yes and apparently he knows what to get his prostitutes but he doesn't know what to get his girlfriend, a person he loves? Just him hanging around in places like that (bars where prostitutes hang around)... doesn't that make you terribly uncomfortable? Do you know for a fact that he's hanging around in places like that or are you just assuming? I'm a very easy-going person myself but if my bf did stuff like that, well, he wouldn't be my bf.

Well, apparently, prostitutes hanging out in bars is a big thing in Thailand, and he told me he hangs out with prostitutes and ladyboys, just drinks with them and plays pool with them in Thailand...

 

Then, there's the issue of prostitutes in Turkey. He claims that they are all over the place, in most/all bars, even in bars in the big chain hotels. That may be true, but from what I have read about bars in Turkey (and I haven't found a whole lot of information), not all bars have prostitutes in them. I don't know if he sought out bars that had prostitutes in them, or just happened to come across a bar, and it just so happened that it was more of a prostitution-type bar.. I don't really know. My friend who has been to Turkey told me that there are "prostitution bars" and regular bars. Anyway, apparently my bf went to a place like that a few times ,but the other day he said him and his coworker had found a bar that had a "normal" crowd, there was a band playing there, etc., and that they would be going there more, from now on.. I don't know if that's where they went this time around.. I have no idea. He didn't even talk about last night when we talked today.... in the past he had talked about things that had happened while he went out, etc.

 

But yes, he told me about buying the drinks for prostitutes, etc. He also kept complaining that women in Turkey didn't pay much attention to him because they are conservative or are always accompanied by male relatives, or whatever... Seriously? And why would you be wanting attention from women in Turkey? That's pretty much like saying I'm not enough for him. Well, clearly I am not......

[xxoo]

No trust = no good. That is equally true long distance or in the same room.

[ana0pera]

NMJ you need to confront him. The "worst" that could happen is that he gets mad you break up again...but with the mind games he's playing I think that would be better for you in the long run.

[NoMoreJerks]

Simply put, if you weren't attracted to him, and such attraction overrode common sense and healthy boundaries, this thread wouldn't exist. That's pretty much it. At some point a balance will be struck. I hope it ends up as a healthy balance for you.

 

Healthy males, husbands and boyfriends, deal with 'long distance' every day. We love our partners and believe in our relationships with them. That's it.

Well, as far as I am concerned, long distance does not bother me. I am not going to go out and find a man here, if I get horny or miss cuddling with my bf. Sure, it sucks to have to be long distance, and I miss him a lot, but I prefer long distance to not having him at all. As such, I don't think the problem lies with me, as far as loyalty and working out the LDR goes.. now, the boundaries issue might be my biggest problem, but I think it's too late to fix that with this guy -- he knows how I feel about him, and every time I try to establish some boundaries, he pushes them allllll the way back, even further back ...

 

Anyway, it seems that he's just not into this as much as I am.. I just don't understand why he'd bring up the topic of getting back together himself, considering that he's not even going to be sent to my country for work anymore... so he'd have to pay from his pocket to come visit me... I don't get it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You already told us all multiple times that he "hangs out" with prostitutes while in Thailand, and that he planned to have a threesome with a couple of them there … and nothing between you had been resolved, AT ALL, before you "got back together" with him. So, of course, the status quo as it was is as it will continue to be. Exactly what you signed up for. Right?

[amayana]

 

Anyway, it seems that he's just not into this as much as I am.. I just don't understand why he'd bring up the topic of getting back together himself, considering that he's not even going to be sent to my country for work anymore... so he'd have to pay from his pocket to come visit me... I don't get it.

 

Maybe you should stop thinking about what he wants all the time and start thinking about what youwant, where your desires are, if this is a relationship that makes you happy, etc. Of course, it's important that both parties are happy and content but your boyfriend doesn't seem to care about your well-being, it seems because he threatens you. You don't seem to trust him a great deal and being anxious all the time is bad for your health and your relationship.

[xxoo]

Anyway, it seems that he's just not into this as much as I am.. I just don't understand why he'd bring up the topic of getting back together himself, considering that he's not even going to be sent to my country for work anymore... so he'd have to pay from his pocket to come visit me... I don't get it.

 

He wants the benefits of you as his girlfriend, and he wants to do what he wants.

 

He wants to have his cake and eat it, too. It isn't that uncommon among cheaters.

 

The question is: are you going to tolerate it?

[Mme. Chaucer]

FIVE DAYS ago you posted about how swimmingly everything is going. You volunteered to have a "boyfriend" who behaves exactly as you are describing in this thread and all the others before it. If you want to be with someone who behaves differently, and treats you like he cares about you, you'll need to pick a different guy.

 

And what's with this plan of dumping him after he visits in APRIL??? You bought his ticket, didn't you.

[NoMoreJerks]

FIVE DAYS ago you posted about how swimmingly everything is going. You volunteered to have a "boyfriend" who behaves exactly as you are describing in this thread and all the others before it. If you want to be with someone who behaves differently, and treats you like he cares about you, you'll need to pick a different guy.

 

And what's with this plan of dumping him after he visits in APRIL??? You bought his ticket, didn't you.

I booked the ticket for him online, I did not buy it with my own money -- he gave me his credit card information and I bought it for him since the website was giving him a higher price (due to different location, I guess), and he got frustrated/stressed by it and asked me if I could do it for him.

[NoMoreJerks]

 

Basically you're just one of his booty calls when he's in town.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to pretend otherwise but once you stop pretending all will be clear to you.

Well, that's what I thought too, but he is no longer "in town" and won't be in town unless he makes a trip to specifically come see me, which he is doing in April.... previously, his company had been paying for all his trips to my country, because he was coming here for work. Anyway, it's possible that he might still be coming here for "booty call", but that's one hell of an expensive booty call...

[NoMoreJerks]

He wants the benefits of you as his girlfriend, and he wants to do what he wants.

 

He wants to have his cake and eat it, too. It isn't that uncommon among cheaters.

 

The question is: are you going to tolerate it?

What are the benefits of having me as his gf?! It's not like we see each other every day and we have sex.... maybe spending time with me online (on Skype) when he's all alone and stuck in his hotel room in Turkey, but that's pretty much it....