When talking isnt good enough anymore

[too unreal]

How do you know if and when you should just throw up your hands and "give up"?

 

All the talking in the world doesnt seem to help, whats next??

 

He just doesnt seem to get "it"..at all...period..

 

He doesnt seem to understand that his actions are saying "im cheating" or "im not interested".....for some reason, I have chose to let his words override his actions...

 

He keeps saying how much he loves me, how he wants to marry me, how he will never leave me....yet his actions say the exact opposite. He keeps saying that he doesnt know what I am talking about...blah blah friggity blah...

 

If I bring anything up at all, that is extremely questionable, I get yelled at, I am told I am jealous and paranoid......and he is getting sick of it, and I am getting real old and tired...

 

I am thinking of simply giving him a printout of the signs of cheating or the signs of why women leave so he can get it through his thick head....good idea or not? And then leaving it at that...because nothing else seems to help. at all. period.

[bluechocolate]

I am thinking of simply giving him a printout of the signs of cheating or the signs of why women leave so he can get it through his thick

head....good idea or not?

---------------------------------------------------

 

What do you hope to achieve by doing that?

 

If you think he's going to have some kind of eye-opening revelation & change his ways you're probably going to be sorely disappointed.

 

Try looking at it differently - like you are the one with the problem.

[catgirl1927]

You can't force someone to give a crap. I spent the last 18 months of my marriage begging and pleading and bending over backwards trying to make someone care. Just cut your losses, it's faster and WAY cheaper.

[Becoming]

Maybe she is the one with the problem--the inability to leave an untenable situation with an intractable male.

 

He is the way he is. You've done all you know to do. You have to make a decision re: whether or not you can tolerate his behavior, and if you can't, leave. If you can, then quit yer bitchin because that's evidently not working.

[too unreal]

thanks blue:

 

Try looking at it differently - like you are the one with the problem.

 

what does this mean? like, try thinking that I (as opposed to him) is the reason for all of our problems? What could doing it this way attain??

 

catgirl1927:

Just cut your losses, it's faster and WAY cheaper.

 

I am actually starting to think this, too....

 

Becoming:

Maybe she is the one with the problem--the inability to leave an untenable situation with an intractable male.

 

Maybe it IS me then.....

 

 

I HATE giving up though

[JadeStar]

Maybe she is the one with the problem--the inability to leave an untenable situation with an intractable male.

 

He is the way he is. You've done all you know to do. You have to make a decision re: whether or not you can tolerate his behavior, and if you can't, leave. If you can, then quit yer bitchin because that's evidently not working.

 

 

 

I agree with this. There comes a time when after you feel you have done everything you know to do, wheather or not you need to stay in a situation or not. You can't change another, but you can change yourself, and if you feel theres nothing else you can do, then you either accept things for the way they are or you move on.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[bluechocolate]

thanks blue:

 

 

 

what does this mean? like, try thinking that I (as opposed to him) is the reason for all of our problems? What could doing it this way attain??

Basically that your problem is him.

[too unreal]

I was hoping the printout could possibly prove that I am not crazy, like he so popularly quotes in regards to me.....

 

He can see for himself that its not just me, one CRAZY female that needs a therapist, but its called "common knowledge" as, this is what EVERY female would think too, if they were in this situation...

 

for some reason, he seems to think that I am crazy and i need help....

[JadeStar]

"for some reason he seems to think that I'm crazy and that I need help"

 

 

 

Thats probably because hes not willing or wanting to own up to the fact he has a hand in the problem. He shifts the blame to you, so he feels justifide.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[bluechocolate]

I don't know what his actions are that keep getting you upset. You've probably written about them in other threads here, but quite frankly I'm not going to troll back to read them all.

 

I'm assuming that you are a reasonable person with a justifiable issue.

 

Now, that being the case, here is a man who says he loves you & wants to marry you and who, rather than discuss your feelings with a view to altering his behaviour, tells you you are crazy. Who tells you that you are the one with the problem. Are these qualities that you look for in a life partner?

 

Actions speak louder than words, yet you want to give him a bunch of words written by people neither of you know & hope that he'll come to some sort of understanding about your feelings. You're not talking about decorating the house or building a garage here.

[Becoming]

"for some reason he seems to think that I'm crazy and that I need help"

 

 

 

Thats probably because hes not willing or wanting to own up to the fact he has a hand in the problem. He shifts the blame to you, so he feels justifide.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

 

 

Yup. Jade nailed it. If you know it's not you, then you don't have to stay and take this s***. Leave.

 

I also recommend Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man. He's blame-shifting, trying to make you the bad one to escape responsibility for his actions. Once you learn their subtle dance moves, you can work with it if you really think he's worth it.

 

But it takes incredible work, and these guys give you the Gaslight treatment all the time until you come to believe you really are crazy. Watch the old movie Gaslight to see this in action.

[too unreal]

I would like to think I am reasonable!!!

 

Look, I have pretty much backed off of him.....i stopped trying to figure him out based on his actions because apparently i was "seeing things that werent there"...... :confused:

 

We all of had our fair share of past traumas, him included, just not sure if it is either of our traumas talking or what....

 

I cant seem to move past him thinking I am a nut bag

[touchtherapy]

A relationship should be reciprocal, and if a person does not want to be respectful to you, then you have to decide whether or not this relationship is made for you. From the looks of it, you have validation issues, which usually sets up a lot of women for abusive relationships such as yours. You want to prove so desperately that you're not crazy. You just want to be right. You just want to be accepted. You just want to be loved.

 

If you didn't have those validation issues, you would have told him to F-off a long time ago. Instead, you stick around, hoping to change his mind about you. The real missing piece is that you should be trying to change your mind about yourself and start to believe that you deserve a relationship where your partner cares about you as much as you care about them. So when you say "something is bothering me", they would say "I love you, and I want you to feel secure about our relationship, and if that takes me reassuring you when you feel a little insecure, I will, because we ALL feel insecure sometimes."

 

That's what you should want in a relationship. Not what you have now.

[too unreal]

Jade:

 

I have even brought that up on occasion, that he is trying to justify himself....does no good, thus the reason for the post...

 

 

 

 

Becoming:

 

But it takes incredible work, and these guys give you the Gaslight treatment all the time until you come to believe you really are crazy. Watch the old movie Gaslight to see this in action.

 

That is EXACTLY what he is doing.....I JUST used this movie as a reference point not more than a week ago to explain some things....no one seemed to know what the term Gaslighting meant...

 

 

Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man

 

thanks, my curiousity is piqued, i will give it a read...

[touchtherapy]

A relationship should be reciprocal, and if a person does not want to be respectful to you, then you have to decide whether or not this relationship is made for you. From the looks of it, you have validation issues, which usually sets up a lot of women for abusive relationships such as yours. You want to prove so desperately that you're not crazy. You just want to be right. You just want to be accepted. You just want to be loved.

 

If you didn't have those validation issues, you would have told him to F-off a long time ago. Instead, you stick around, hoping to change his mind about you. The real missing piece is that you should be trying to change your mind about yourself and start to believe that you deserve a relationship where your partner cares about you as much as you care about them. So when you say "something is bothering me", they would say "I love you, and I want you to feel secure about our relationship, and if that takes me reassuring you when you feel a little insecure, I will, because we ALL feel insecure sometimes."

 

That's what you should want in a relationship. Not what you have now.

[too unreal]

Touchtherapy, everything you said just said just touched me right now, in the oddest way....

 

Some Insight...

 

A relationship should be reciprocal, and if a person does not want to be respectful to you, then you have to decide whether or not this relationship is made for you. From the looks of it, you have validation issues, which usually sets up a lot of women for abusive relationships such as yours. You want to prove so desperately that you're not crazy. You just want to be right. You just want to be accepted. You just want to be loved.

 

If you didn't have those validation issues, you would have told him to F-off a long time ago. Instead, you stick around, hoping to change his mind about you. The real missing piece is that you should be trying to change your mind about yourself and start to believe that you deserve a relationship where your partner cares about you as much as you care about them. So when you say "something is bothering me", they would say "I love you, and I want you to feel secure about our relationship, and if that takes me reassuring you when you feel a little insecure, I will, because we ALL feel insecure sometimes."

 

That's what you should want in a relationship. Not what you have now.

 

 

I think that this is what it is all about....i want to be loved, accepted and right for once.....I wanted to be validated.....I DO deserve an equal relationship, come to think of it!!! I cant believe I am wasting my time with someone who cant even respect the fact that his lies has caused such a dent in my trust, and wont even REASSURE me that he has changed...a little at least...for the better....

[Allalone]

I am in the exact same situation, if I ask him about something that appears odd to me such as him getting a text at 12:30 pm me asking who it was and him saying that it was the one that I sent him at 8:30 am and I know thats a lie becuase I got a delivery report saying that it was delivered at 8:30 am. He says Im f***ked in the head and I need to seek professional help as I imagine things and make them up I know exactly how you feel, are you on msn as I think that maybe we could help each other by talking through it, PM me your MSN if you want to talk.

[too unreal]

Allalone:

 

I dont have PM, but if you want to talk, we can email back and forth...you'll have to change your options on your screen name here to "send private message" and from there you can put in your email address anonomously, (i think) and we can exchange emails......

 

It sounds like you are dealing with the exact same issues as me....he says pretty much the exact same thing as yours does....some of the proof is blatant and staring him right in the face, but I am the nutcase that needs help...to make matters worse, the newest thing is he cant seem to stop bad mouthing me to others...which he didnt think I would find out, but he has gotten careless......see if you can change your options!!

[Becoming]

A relationship should be reciprocal, and if a person does not want to be respectful to you, then you have to decide whether or not this relationship is made for you. From the looks of it, you have validation issues, which usually sets up a lot of women for abusive relationships such as yours. You want to prove so desperately that you're not crazy. You just want to be right. You just want to be accepted. You just want to be loved.

 

If you didn't have those validation issues, you would have told him to F-off a long time ago. Instead, you stick around, hoping to change his mind about you. The real missing piece is that you should be trying to change your mind about yourself and start to believe that you deserve a relationship where your partner cares about you as much as you care about them. So when you say "something is bothering me", they would say "I love you, and I want you to feel secure about our relationship, and if that takes me reassuring you when you feel a little insecure, I will, because we ALL feel insecure sometimes."

 

That's what you should want in a relationship. Not what you have now.

 

 

This is good stuff! Amen, preach on! etc.

 

I have a question, though. Exactly what are validation issues?

[JadeStar]

becoming hopefully the other person will return and tell exactly what validation issues mean but I'm gonna take a stab at it.

 

 

Some people need to feel validated in just about all things they do or say. While others don't always feel that need in everything.

 

To validate is to acknowledge or accept ones unique idenity or indviduality. Invalidation would be to ignore, reject, or judge their feelings. When we validate someone we alllow them to safely share their feelings and thoughts.We are reassuring them its ok to have the feelings they have, and that we will still accept them after they have shared whatever feeling they may have.

 

Sometimes validation entails, listening, sometimes its a nod or a sign of agreement or understanding, or perhaps a hug or a touch. Or sometimes it can mean just being patient until the other person is ready to talk.

 

 

I guess shes meaning that the OP feels the need to be validated in how she feels on the matter at hand, and possibly thats what shes waiting on, or she would have told him good-bye by now. Not sure exactly if thats what shes meaning, but thought I would try and see if it was close.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[touchtherapy]

Validation issues are things that hold us back from making the right decisions about a situation, despite the evidence. When there is a void in a person's life, like wanting the security of knowing that they are loved, they sometimes project their void onto an unsuspecting person.

 

So, in this case, she wants to be loved. She has, to no fault of her own, projected her need for love onto this person and is waiting for him to love her. He says "go to hell" the first four days out of the week, but on the fifth day, he says "baby, I love you" and her brain, to no fault of her own, registers the fifth day, and not the first four.

 

Now, if she felt like she already received love, then poof! The first four days would be registered in her brain, and she would say "Hey, let's do the math...first four days of hell, fifth day of sunshine...ah, this is not enough sunshine for me, I can't get a tan like this, I'm moving to a new spot!!"

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

The big question that everyone has is: How do I get over my validation issues?

 

First, one has to be very emotionally honest with themselves. We lie to ourselves to protect us from potential hurt. But if we sit down and be very honest, we will see the root cause of our emotions.

 

Second, ask yourself important questions like "if this were someone else, say Bob, and he loved me the way that I wanted to be loved, and I was attracted to him, would it matter what Billy over here was doing?" or "have I felt like this before? Have I been in a relationship like this before?" or "am I here because I feel tired of looking for that right person, and I just want to make this one work?"

 

Third, find someone or something that can support you through the loneliness. Preferably not self-medicating products like drugs or alcohol. Find some solid friends, or a discussion tool like this one that will remind you of where you were, so that on those days that you feel crazy and want to call him, you can say "Hello! I want a tan, and I'm not going to get it in the shade."

 

Fourth, please please please, write down what you think someone could do to make you feel loved. Write down how you want to be treated. Write down how you think you want to receive feedback. Write down how you feel you would show your love to someone. Write down how you want to be received. Then make that a contract to yourself. You will now only entertain long-term relationships with people who meet the most important parts of that contact, and you are willing to negotiate the terms of the other parts of that contact. And stick to it!!

 

You will start to see that you can easily identify the guys who don't meet those terms, and start to see the ones that do.

 

Hopefully this helps.

[touchtherapy]

By the way, JadeStar is dead on! We all need someone that we can safely share our lives with. That's Love! - Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs

[JadeStar]

Validation issues are things that hold us back from making the right decisions about a situation, despite the evidence. When there is a void in a person's life, like wanting the security of knowing that they are loved, they sometimes project their void onto an unsuspecting person.

 

So, in this case, she wants to be loved. She has, to no fault of her own, projected her need for love onto this person and is waiting for him to love her. He says "go to hell" the first four days out of the week, but on the fifth day, he says "baby, I love you" and her brain, to no fault of her own, registers the fifth day, and not the first four.

 

Now, if she felt like she already received love, then poof! The first four days would be registered in her brain, and she would say "Hey, let's do the math...first four days of hell, fifth day of sunshine...ah, this is not enough sunshine for me, I can't get a tan like this, I'm moving to a new spot!!"

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

The big question that everyone has is: How do I get over my validation issues?

 

First, one has to be very emotionally honest with themselves. We lie to ourselves to protect us from potential hurt. But if we sit down and be very honest, we will see the root cause of our emotions.

 

Second, ask yourself important questions like "if this were someone else, say Bob, and he loved me the way that I wanted to be loved, and I was attracted to him, would it matter what Billy over here was doing?" or "have I felt like this before? Have I been in a relationship like this before?" or "am I here because I feel tired of looking for that right person, and I just want to make this one work?"

 

Third, find someone or something that can support you through the loneliness. Preferably not self-medicating products like drugs or alcohol. Find some solid friends, or a discussion tool like this one that will remind you of where you were, so that on those days that you feel crazy and want to call him, you can say "Hello! I want a tan, and I'm not going to get it in the shade."

 

Fourth, please please please, write down what you think someone could do to make you feel loved. Write down how you want to be treated. Write down how you think you want to receive feedback. Write down how you feel you would show your love to someone. Write down how you want to be received. Then make that a contract to yourself. You will now only entertain long-term relationships with people who meet the most important parts of that contact, and you are willing to negotiate the terms of the other parts of that contact. And stick to it!!

 

You will start to see that you can easily identify the guys who don't meet those terms, and start to see the ones that do.

 

Hopefully this helps.

 

 

I like this explaination better, LOL:laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[Becoming]

Jade and Touch, you have both been extremely helpful on this matter.

 

Thanks. This was Word at just the right moment for me, and I hope for our OP as well.

[too unreal]

becoming:

Thanks. This was Word at just the right moment for me, and I hope for our OP as well.

 

EXACTLY.... Jade and touchtherapy, you are both dead on....the intricate part that remains now is, putting in the last ditch effort...everyone deserves a last ditch effort.....imo anyway...

 

I was able to tell him not to blame me if we fall apart, it will be his own tough luck because I clearly tried hard....

 

To which he said "what, you dont love me anymore"

 

I told him I cant feel the same about him now after all he put me through, he repeated "what, you dont love me anymore"

 

told him i loved him, but this wasnt working the way it is supposed to work....thinking maybe i should try it on my own.....

 

he says: "what, no, come on, you are always crazy (theres my favorite word again) I love you, you need to relax, you always think crazy..."

 

backtracked for a moment and thought.....umhmmmm maybe i should invite him for lunch i have never done that before....

 

invited him, and he was like, no, i am busy, i cant leave...blah blah....excuses excuses...if he wanted to really, he would find a way....

 

I am slowly starting to wonder if maybe he wants a gf but only if she doesnt interfere too much in his life.....