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Am I reading too much into this?


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I have a history in my current relationship of being very insecure and paranoid. Of always reading into things. Part of that is me. Part of that is living with someone who is mentally ill (bipolar). Most of her friends are men. Many of them she's been sexually involved with. We are monogamous. She goes out of her way to show that I should trust her and is always honest with me. That said, I'm irritated about our current disagreement and could use some level insight to if I'm being paranoid and unreasonable.

 

One of her guy friends ("J") who she was sexually involved with just before she and I got together has been a thorn in my side. She doesn't really hang out with him anymore because of my insecurities about him, but the last time she stayed out with him she wound up curled up in bed with him napping. Later on her texted her that he "missed her butt" even though he knew she was living with me.

 

She's always honest with me to a fault. I only know the above because she told me. And we had a similar thing happen this Valentine's day. I came home at the end of the day and she told me that "J" had asked her if she wanted she wanted to hang out and she declined. I got upset at the audacity of this. Started asking questions and got the following responses:

 

- Neither of them care at all about Vday. Her last boyfriend and her agreed never to do anything that day. How could he know things were any different.

 

- He may not even know she was in a relationship. (We've lived together two years)

 

- My traditional views of a sappy manufactured holiday are the root cause.

 

- Why we she have even told me if something dubious was happening. I never would have even known.

 

I settled on asking what her reply was and she said that she was making a dinner with me. I specifically asked her if she made it clear that she had a boyfriend that she lived with. She said "Yes". The topic came up again a couple of days later because it really annoyed me and struck me as disrespectful, not to mention the "he might not even know I have a boyfriend" thing when she speaks to him at least a couple of times per month and she and I have been living together almost two years. I asked her directly if she made it clear that I was in her life. She said "Yes."

 

I did something I never do. I decided to put my fears to rest and go into her phone to look at the conversation. She had given me the passcode months ago and told me to look if I ever doubted her. It was there. He did ask her if she wanted to hang out. Her reply was not indicative of having a committed relationship. It was:

 

"Things have been really sucky lately. I'm just going to stay home and make dinner"

 

His response. "Oh. That's too bad. Wish you were here."

 

I confronted her with it and she says she thought she had made it clear to him. She said it's all mundane anyhow. No one is trying to woo anyone. He asked a question and she just gave a short answer and moved on. Again, the real issue is my sappy traditional views. She doesn't believe in having to mention relationships unless clear boundaries are being crossed. She didn't have to tell me anything in the first place.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say, "We've had repeated issues with this person*, and I don't feel comfortable with you being friends with him. I can't stop you or give you ultimatums, but I want you to know that I would feel a lot better if he wasn't someone you were hanging out with." She feels it's manipulative because it still ends up with the same results as an ultimatum.

 

I'd love to get some mature and level views on this.

 

* Issues I have with this guy:

 

1. When they did hang out, it was primarily staying out until early morning singing karaoke.

2. The last time she went out with him (at the beginning of our relationship) she didn't go to karaoke, but instead curled up in bed with him talking and napping. I only know this because she told me.

3. He knew she was in a relationship about a year ago and still texted her "I miss your butt." I only know this because she told me.

4. When she was having sex with him, she wanted more but he didn't want a relationship.

5. When she went through her worst depression after getting dumped, he was the only person checking in on her to make sure she was eating, sleeping, bathing. She still gets mildly verklempt when she talks about how he cared for her.

 

These set the tone for me to be very wary of him and his mention usually resulted in disagreements. Perhaps I should just let things go. I think the big issue here is that we disagree on boundaries. She is always (I hope) honest with me but doesn't agree with the traditional boundaries imposed by romantic relationships. As long as there is no sexual or emotional cheating happening, there should not be an issue. Trust should be implicit regardless of the situation. In her previous relationship, her boyfriend didn't really care what she did. So staying out all night and curling up in bed to watch movies was okay. I don't think that's okay and that's been an ongoing issue labeled under "paranoia and mistrust". She has other guy friends she's had this sort of relationship with as well. She just goes with the flow in terms of what's acceptable as long as it doesn't violate the core rules of fidelity.

Edited by Techmonkey
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Have you both discussed "boundaries"? If both have made an agreement as to what is acceptable interaction and what is not, then the next step is for you to exit out of this relationship due to the lack of respect. This should be a dealbreaker. You can not force a person to behave in a certain way, they have to be willing to adjust accordingly.

 

This has nothing to do with her mental illness, this has a lot to do with her attitude.

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Is she getting help for her bipolar?

 

She is on Lithium to control her the peaks, but not in counseling or on meds to controller her depressions.

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I think the big issue here is that we disagree on boundaries. She is always (I hope) honest with me but doesn't agree with the traditional boundaries imposed by romantic relationships. As long as there is no sexual or emotional cheating happening, there should not be an issue. Trust should be implicit regardless of the situation. In her previous relationship, her boyfriend didn't really care what she did. So staying out all night and curling up in bed to watch movies was okay. I don't think that's okay and that's been an ongoing issue labeled under "paranoia and mistrust". She has other guy friends she's had this sort of relationship with as well. She just goes with the flow in terms of what's acceptable as long as it doesn't violate the core rules of fidelity.

You both are not compatible if this is how you both feel about this issue.

 

You cannot change who she is, but you can change GFs. I know you don't want to hear this, but is there any other way?? unless you put up with it and leave her alone...let her carry on with it.

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She is on Lithium to control her the peaks, but not in counseling or on meds to controller her depressions.

 

Honestly counseling is needed for someone who's bipolar and even couple counseling since both of have a disagreement on boundaries, you have different definitions of what a relationship is.

 

Honestly i completely agree on what smackie9 just said you're not compatible.

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First thing, this is not a honest woman, so you need to stop convincing yourself she is....This will create alot of pain for you in the near future. What she is is controlling, she gives you just enough truth to make it appear she is he my truthful.....

 

You went to verify her story and found a lie....I've actually caught several lies or misleading statements in this short bit you've told here...Is if she made it clear she was in a relationship, then why would she say he may not know she was in a relationship...

 

Red flags all over this girl.....abort

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Honestly counseling is needed for someone who's bipolar and even couple counseling since both of have a disagreement on boundaries, you have different definitions of what a relationship is.

 

Honestly i completely agree on what smackie9 just said you're not compatible.

 

 

We tried couple counseling. She felt it was worthless. I felt it was ****ty. Example: She'd be asked "Name four happy memories you have with (me) over the last year." Her non-malicious response was "I don't have any." Similar things like that frequently in the sessions.

 

In addition to the lack of counseling is the lack of self-care. She drinks every night. Frequently to the point of belligerence. Today she was nodding off drunk by 6:30. I've made dinner (I do all the cooking or we wouldn't eat) and she's up and about in the insult stage. Little quips telling me how she thinks I'm an insecure child or a selfish *******. On a regular basis she's drunk and I'm holding a balancing act to not respond/upset her. She won't remember what she said in the morning and she'll feel bad if I tell her. But she won't stop drinking. If I push it, I'm controlling. Then again, growing up with an alcoholic mother, this brings me back to places I really don't want to ****ing be.

 

TLDR: You're right. I need to get out of here.

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TLDR: You're right. I need to get out of here.

 

As soon as possible. She is a ticking timebomb waiting to happen.

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TLDR: You're right. I need to get out of here.

 

You actually need to run as fast as you can. You deserve way better than this.

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As soon as possible. She is a ticking timebomb waiting to happen.

 

Yeah. That timebomb thing is a strong feeling I've been having for a while now. When she gets really drunk, like tonight, I have this dread that she's either going to hurt herself (she frequently talks of suicide) or hurt me. She has hit me and or broken my music gear before. Makes it impossible to relax in my own home. I'm generally a very very high anxiety person and **** like this is really wearing.

 

 

Sidenote: Hawkwind = thumbs up.

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Scarlett.O'hara

What kind of girlfriend gets into bed with her ex for a cuddling session, while hiding the fact she is in a relationship? Think about it.

 

She was rubbing the fact that she did this in your face and telling you how he missed her ass. Again, what kind of girlfriend does this?

 

To add to all that she is gas-lighting all of your concerns, which as it turns out were completely justified, because she lied about telling him that she was with her boyfriend on Valentine's Day. She is a liar and very clearly wants him to want her and think that she is available.

 

There is nothing innocent about this.

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Scarlett.O'hara
Yeah. That timebomb thing is a strong feeling I've been having for a while now. When she gets really drunk, like tonight, I have this dread that she's either going to hurt herself (she frequently talks of suicide) or hurt me. She has hit me and or broken my music gear before. Makes it impossible to relax in my own home. I'm generally a very very high anxiety person and **** like this is really wearing.

 

 

Sidenote: Hawkwind = thumbs up.

 

You need to get away from her! This is not ok.

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You need to get away from her! This is not ok.

 

Venting here has really gotten me thinking how much more peaceful (albeit lonely until I get used to it) living on my own would be. I pay all the bills, so I'm not worried about living on my own. It would be significantly cheaper.

 

Another side note: Just saw "Gone with the Wind" for the first time last week. I regret waiting so long. :bunny:

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Get a Studio in Rogers Park. It s about as cheap as you can find on the North Side and still have a decent place. Lot of Garden Studios around Pratt and Sheridan.

 

t/j: Hawkwind. Yes of all the places, Hawkwind probably along with UFO has their largest American fanbase in Chicago.

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What kind of girlfriend gets into bed with her ex for a cuddling session, while hiding the fact she is in a relationship? Think about it.

 

She was rubbing the fact that she did this in your face and telling you how he missed her ass. Again, what kind of girlfriend does this?

 

To add to all that she is gas-lighting all of your concerns, which as it turns out were completely justified, because she lied about telling him that she was with her boyfriend on Valentine's Day. She is a liar and very clearly wants him to want her and think that she is available.

 

There is nothing innocent about this.

 

To be fair, she makes a point to be fully honest because her last boyfriend lied to her constantly. These things took place over a span of time. I've given a lot of thought to these and can't figure out any other reason for her to mention them aside from being "full disclosure". I never would have known any other way. The cuddle session was a few months apart from the butt comment, and about a year apart from Valentines day. She can be a really ****ty person as her moods shift, but in these cases I think she was trying to do the right thing.

 

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I really need to clear my head and make a decision. The lease is up in a few months and that definitely makes things easier to plan out.

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What exactly are her positives? I'm just trying to understand why you put up with all the negatives you've listed?

 

What are you getting out of this relationship, other than some sort of rehashing of the relationship you had with your alcoholic mother?

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What exactly are her positives? I'm just trying to understand why you put up with all the negatives you've listed?

 

What are you getting out of this relationship, other than some sort of rehashing of the relationship you had with your alcoholic mother?

 

This exactly.

 

Surely the whole point of coupling up with someone is to feel good (that's about the long and short of it right)

 

We don't go to filthy bars with bad music because we want to have a bad time

 

or go to filthy restaurants with rats running around on the floor

 

So why would a human being be with another human being that stresses them out, hits them and generally makes their life sh*t.

 

Even if it's just sex is not worth that price but she's got orbiters waiting to get in there if she so desires.

 

Run, plenty of women out there to feel good with.

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What exactly are her positives? I'm just trying to understand why you put up with all the negatives you've listed?

 

What are you getting out of this relationship, other than some sort of rehashing of the relationship you had with your alcoholic mother?

 

That's a good question.... I'd been giving that thought over the past few months.

 

She's pretty. That hasn't changed.

 

She's was very sexual at the beginning, but now we have sex every few months. which she admits is pretty much maintenance sex. This is an issue she has with every boyfriend, but end result is me feeling undesired, unsatisfied, and pretty much castrated. She identifies as bi-sexual, but I do wonder if she just hasn't admitted to herself that she's a lesbian.

 

We have common interests that we really enjoy. We both like boardgames, hiking, camping, and concerts. We do fairly impromptu trips into the wilderness. These trips give me my happiest memories. When we're away from the stresses of daily life her depression lifts and she becomes more loving.

 

I think that's about it. the negatives far outweigh the positives. She's always depressed, nothing matters, overly opinionated, dominates every conversation to the point of monologue, is extremely sexually and emotionally frigid (opposite to my very affectionate nature and high libido), is annoyingly picky about how things need to be done, undependable, has terrible life habits (won't eat meals because they're too much effort, spends hours dawdling on her iPad, has no sense of structure, stays up until 3-4 in the morning because that's her nature. She's angry and bitter by nature. I get depressed but I'm generally light hearted and goofy. There's more, but I think there's no need to type it. Just looking at this makes me wonder what the **** I've been putting myself through.

 

Relationship-wise I'm a fairly needy person. I need daily affirmations (hugs, kissing, or cuddling. Nothing much. Just a small token here and there) and she generally is happiest when she's left alone to do her thing, which usually means OCD house cleaning or undisturbed iPad time.

 

Seeing this in typed form bring extra clarity.

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I have this dread that she's either going to hurt herself (she frequently talks of suicide) or hurt me. She has hit me and or broken my music gear before.
Tech, the physical abuse of a partner/spouse is strongly associated with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), not with bipolar. I mention this because, if your GF suffered from bipolar-1 in the past year, she has a 47% chance of also having co-occurring lifetime BPD. Because you say the lithium controls "her peaks," I assume you must be referring to bipolar-1. (If she has bipolar-2, however, her risk of lifetime BPD is 36%). See Table 2 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

The physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

I therefore suggest you read my description of 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences. It is based on my 15 years experience with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). It that description of BPD seems pertinent, I would suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your GF back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Moreover, the warning signs would be easy to spot after you've living with a woman for 18 months, as in your case. Take care, Tech.

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Tech, the physical abuse of a partner/spouse is strongly associated with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), not with bipolar. I mention this because, if your GF suffered from bipolar-1 in the past year, she has a 47% chance of also having co-occurring lifetime BPD. Because you say the lithium controls "her peaks," I assume you must be referring to bipolar-1. (If she has bipolar-2, however, her risk of lifetime BPD is 36%). See Table 2 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

The physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

I therefore suggest you read my description of 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences. It is based on my 15 years experience with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). It that description of BPD seems pertinent, I would suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your GF back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Moreover, the warning signs would be easy to spot after you've living with a woman for 18 months, as in your case. Take care, Tech.

 

 

I really appreciate the info. I'll read through these. She's Bipolar2. I've been diagnosed as having Borderline Tendencies so these can be useful for self-evaluation as well. Though CBT/DBT tools have greatly reduced my issues. Violence not being one of them.

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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not surprised. Dysfunction finds dysfunction irresistible. Your description of your GF would have sent any healthy person running for the hills from the outset. But you not only stayed, your focus was on trying to get this to work despite all the negatives.

 

You're going to have to work on yourself. I'm sure counseling will be helpful. Otherwise, even if you do leave this chronically drunk person who won't even feed herself (among all the other "wonderful" things you said about her), you'll jump at the next hopelessly dysfunctional person you encounter. Healthy women are not going to be attractive to you...there'll be no chemistry with them...because you thrive on a certain type of dynamic.

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She's was very sexual at the beginning, but now we have sex every few months. which she admits is pretty much maintenance sex.
When studies are done to determine if a marriage is sexless, researchers define a sexless marriage as sex 10 or less times a year. Your relationship would be defined as sexless by researchers. In the book "His Needs, Her Needs", the number one relationship need of men is sex. For men sex is a need and not just a want. As a male she is not meeting your most basic need. You also say that she is honest, despite many people pointing out how she lies to you. The real issue is that you accepted a sexless relationship and lies from her. Had you set sex and honesty as firm requirements right from the beginning, you would be in a better relationship situation right now, either with her or someone else.
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I really appreciate the info. I'll read through these. She's Bipolar2. I've been diagnosed as having Borderline Tendencies so these can be useful for self-evaluation as well. Though CBT/DBT tools have greatly reduced my issues. Violence not being one of them.
Tech, having "Borderline tendencies" is the human condition. We all exhibit BPD traits to some degree. Perhaps your therapist meant that yours are stronger than average but nonetheless well below the diagnostic threshold. Significantly, the risk factors I quoted above are not for BPD tendencies but, rather, for full-blown, lifetime BPD.
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not surprised. Dysfunction finds dysfunction irresistible. Your description of your GF would have sent any healthy person running for the hills from the outset. But you not only stayed, your focus was on trying to get this to work despite all the negatives.

 

You're going to have to work on yourself. I'm sure counseling will be helpful. Otherwise, even if you do leave this chronically drunk person who won't even feed herself (among all the other "wonderful" things you said about her), you'll jump at the next hopelessly dysfunctional person you encounter. Healthy women are not going to be attractive to you...there'll be no chemistry with them...because you thrive on a certain type of dynamic.

 

Thanks for the insight. Having to work on myself is a key thing. I went from being a very immature and emotionally unstable 20-something to n 18 year relationship with a total sycophant (which allowed the behavior to continue) to a 2 year relationship with someone on the opposite end of the scale. There's no doubt that living alone for a while to figure myself out and indulge in hobbies would be very healthy and normalizing.

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