iceisles Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I found out that this girl I'm interested in likes me but is not emotionally ready to start dating, much less jump into a relationship. She has said she wants to get together more often when she feels comfortable again. I have no problem just being friends right now, but what are some things that I can do (or not do) to ensure that I don't get permanently trapped in the "friends zone"? I certainly want to be there for her, but I also want her to aware that I am interested in a romantic relationship down the road. How often should I contact her, by which method (phone, e-mail, etc.), and how often should I throw in "hints"? I feel this is a delicate situation and want to handle it correctly. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 go to any large bookstore and buy the book "how to succeed with women" by Louis and Copeland. it will tell you most of what you need to know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'll do that, but how about a quick crash course for LS purposes? I could use some immediate tips. I have heard good things about that book, btw. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles Anyone? buy the book man, but here are a few pointers: -don't treat her like a friend, treat her like a desirable woman who is sexy -don't be too available or desperate -let her chase you -if she says she wants to be friends you tell her you're not interested in that and if she says that's all you're gonna get then you walk away forever -don't chase just one women at a time, i.e. don't put all yer eggs in one basket -don't be too nice and don't be too mean, but always be a gentleman Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale buy the book man, but here are a few pointers: -don't treat her like a friend, treat her like a desirable woman who is sexy -don't be too available or desperate -let her chase you -if she says she wants to be friends you tell her you're not interested in that and if she says that's all you're gonna get then you walk away forever -don't chase just one women at a time, i.e. don't put all yer eggs in one basket -don't be too nice and don't be too mean, but always be a gentleman Thanks. That stuff is really in the book? I've never understood the "let her chase you" thing because most women are usually interested in more than one person. How can you ever make an impression by laying low? Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 This will probably spark a debate, but I guess there's nothing wrong with that. I think relationships are similar to school, a job, a sports team, etc. Results require effort, and that means working to the best of your potential. It is rare when success is achieved by just laying around and hoping that the cards fall into place. I am a big proponent of stepping up and giving it your all, because ambition frequently does equal success. If I'm going to be successful with her, I essentially have to market myself as a desirable commodity and not be lost in the pack with all of the other guys. Sure, we had a great date, but that momentum can only carry you so far. You have to continue to revitalize yourself and remain interesting to the other person. To that end, I'm going to e-mail, IM, or call her just like I would any of the rest of my friends. The only difference is that I will occasionally mention us being together and when I do see her again, I will act it is like a date and not just two friends getting together. I would rather fail by giving it my all than regret not doing enough (which has happened many times, by the way). I know the popular train of thought is to have someone "chase you", but come on folks, that doesn't always happen. Dating is far too complex and competitive to bank on someone coming looking for you. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles I found out that this girl I'm interested in likes me but is not emotionally ready to start dating, much less jump into a relationship. She has said she wants to get together more often when she feels comfortable again. I have no problem just being friends right now If the above is what she basically told you then yoou are already in the friends zone. Don't be friends with her, just move on to the next girl. If you don't become friends with her then she may change her mind down the road and want to be romantically involved esp if she sees you dating someone else. Once you become friends with her then your chances of a romantic relationship become about 1%. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale If the above is what she basically told you then yoou are already in the friends zone. Don't be friends with her, just move on to the next girl. If you don't become friends with her then she may change her mind down the road and want to be romantically involved esp if she sees you dating someone else. Once you become friends with her then your chances of a romantic relationship become about 1%. I am in the friends zone for now, but my goal is to not stay there forever. I can't move on the next girl - it's not like I have tons knocking on my door. Once I realize that I won't make progess with one, then I officially give up. I was hoping that I could become a good friend to her for now, but the kind of friend that also makes for a good dating partner when she is ready down the road. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles I am in the friends zone for now, but my goal is to not stay there forever. I can't move on the next girl - it's not like I have tons knocking on my door. Once I realize that I won't make progess with one, then I officially give up. I was hoping that I could become a good friend to her for now, but the kind of friend that also makes for a good dating partner when she is ready down the road. dude you better buy that book and read it 50 times until you memorize every word. I am not kidding here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale dude you better buy that book and read it 50 times until you memorize every word. I am not kidding here. Alpha, if I just drift off and don't talk to her, she will assume I'm not interested and move on. It's happened many times before. She won't come looking for me like this is some Hollywood movie. I have to fight for this one. Link to post Share on other sites
littlelaxer Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I think that if u really like the girl, being a little bit of friends wont be to big of a deal. Sometimes some of the best relationships arise from starting as friends. i can understand u being afraid of being stuck in the friendship mode but sometimes u just have to take the small chance. I think an idea of every now and then sending an email or calling is a good idea. Because those i believe are little ways of keepin urself in her thoughts, also it shows u care. I think it is much better to show u care after she tells u her problems, and i think if i was her u would almost look like a jerk who really didnt care in the first place if u just up and vanished. I would say when u call u should get to know her like ask her about herself, get to know her the little silly stuff about her, if she allows that . i wouldnt call her and sound all sympathic and be like "Hey how are things are they better?" Be like "Hey whats up!" be an upper in her life!! Thats what i would want if i were her....... So i think every now and then pop in to her days. Not every day though, and oh dont do it in a regular period where she catches on that u call every tuesday, thursday at 5:20pm......i hope u catch my drift and good luck to u, keep us posted...... Anyone else have any ideas, it is kinda hard to be stuck as friends when u want more...... Link to post Share on other sites
7on Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 You can try suggesting friends with benefits (minus sex, funny how I have to explain that to everyone I tell it to). This girl I'm friends with suggested that after we talked. I'm sure I could have gotten her to be my gf right then, if I had been more "romantic" and comfortable talking about sex with her. She wants to be FWB to see how I react with those subjects (though without sex until there is a serious commitment). No sweat for me since I'm the romantic machine, I just don't like advertising it to friends who are potential mate material. Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Littlelaxer made some great suggestions. Definitely don't drop off the face of the planet, or give up hope just yet. I can tell you from a girl's perspective that when one is fresh out of a relationship, it wouldn't matter how great/wonderful/handsome somebody is...sometimes you just aren't ready. I know I have met several guys that if I was not so hung up on the freshness of my recent brutal breakup, that I would love to date! Maybe once the newness of my heartbreak dies down, I may be willing to give it a shot...but right now...I just don't think I could be emotionally into it just yet. This sounds like what this girl is experiencing. The way that she acted during the date does not sound like she has lumped you into the dreaded friend category. I think she is being truthful with you when she says that she is just not emotionally ready yet. Had I not experienced how painful and thought consuming that a bad breakup is, I would probably scoff that she was just full of hot air. But since I know what it is like...I can assure you that she is probably being very honest about that. Like I said, Brad Pitt's little brother could be knocking on my door right now, but I am so consumed with my recent break up that I wouldn't be able to put a full effort into it. The last thing you should do right now is disappear. Still keep your mind open to other women who may come along...but yes, you do want to stay on her radar. I think that if you only call occasionally or email occasionally that you will avoid being lumped into the friend category. As long as you don't call too much (like everyday, or more than twice a week) I think you should be successful in avoiding that. Also, when you do call keep it pretty short and sweet and be the one to end the calls. Make it look like you are pretty busy yourself. Keep an air of mystery. Make her think that you DO have other options besides just her...this will raise your perceived value. When she is ready to go hang out again don't act like a friend. Make sure you make enough physical contact to show that you aren't just looking to be her new best girl friend Alphamale, you never did answer my question on Iceisles last thread where you said for him to wait 10-14 days before calling. I will admit, I am pretty fascinated to know if the tactics you suggest work for you. Is this what you do in real life? I am wondering if it really works for you, because I know that if a guy waited that long to call me I would be really annoyed! I do agree with you when you said that if he becomes friends with her then his chances are about 1% for a romantic relationship. But I think that depends on how close of friends that he becomes with her. If he is calling her all the time, or always hanging out and going shopping/gossiping/and talking about her love life with her..then yeah he is doomed. But I think that if he keeps contact pretty minimal no girl would lump him into the "omg if I kissed him it would feel like incest" category. Iceisles, I know you already know what I think. But don't give up on this girl. I can tell you from my own experience, that ANYONE who has just got out of a major relationship is going to be reluctant to get into a new one right off the bat..especially if they have a busy lifestyle. Unless someone is the type to just snap their fingers and get over something, then there is still going to be some lingering thoughts of what has just happened. Most people want to be able to have their mind clear of an ex before starting something new with a different person. This is how I feel right now. I think that all she needs is some time to sort things out in her head. Be there for her but not too much. Definitely don't fall off the face of the earth. Sounds to me like she just needs some time to be mentally ready for another relationship and take up all the effort that is required in the beginning of a courting process. Hope that I have helped some...hang in there and keep us updated! Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 littlelaxer and Nemesis - thanks so much for your insightful posts. You have helped me establish what I think will be a pretty effective strategy. I will call about every 3rd day, e-mail very rarely (maybe 2-3 times a month), and only occasionally be available to talk online. I certainly understand the importance of raising my perceived value by creating that air of mystery, and I think this plan will work well towards that end. The odds are that she may never trap me into the friends zone considering that is aware of my feelings, but it is surely better to err on the side of caution when going through the courting process. I will be curious to see if she initiates more contact with me when I reduce my contact with her, although I won't take it as a bas sign if that doesn't happen. She was so busy yesterday that she didn't even come online or read her e-mail, which is what I probably should expect anyway if she really is that busy. I have to leave off here and go to work, but I will add on to this later and keep you updated with any further developments. Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by YX32Nemesis Alphamale, you never did answer my question on Iceisles last thread where you said for him to wait 10-14 days before calling. I will admit, I am pretty fascinated to know if the tactics you suggest work for you. Is this what you do in real life? I am wondering if it really works for you, because I know that if a guy waited that long to call me I would be really annoyed! Sure it works, but the woman has to like you. If a guy has a lot going for him, busy social life, attractive, good job, hobbies, etc... then he is going to be busy and most females will understand that. Also, when you wait a few wks to call you don't come off as desperate or needy. When I meet some new woman and get a number I tell 'em I'll call them sometime within next few wks without specifying when. And then I keep my word and call them 10 or 12 days later. I have not been dishonest and they get to sit and wonder whether I will call or not. Keeps me mysterious. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale They get to sit and wonder whether I will call or not. Keeps me mysterious. There is definitely an advantage to that, though I don't think 10-14 days should be used as a standard guideline. Every situation is different, of course, and with her, after two weeks she would think I was mad or just didn't care about her anymore. I suppose you if you say, "I'll call in a week or two", you've at least prefaced your intentions. But me not calling her without saying something like that would almost certainly have adverse effects. I am going to try and strike that delicate balance of being there, but not too much. Showing her I care, but not too much. Because of my personality, it will involve some restraint on my part, something that I don't have much experience with. But I suppose it will be a good learning experience, regardless of success or failure. Link to post Share on other sites
7on Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 haha, these past few weeks have been hard. Not necessarily towards a girl or anything, I'm been talking excessively to all my friends. Damn winter breaks!!!!! And my bumble**** of a town Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by 7on haha, these past few weeks have been hard. Not necessarily towards a girl or anything, I'm been talking excessively to all my friends. Damn winter breaks!!!!! And my bumble**** of a town Huh? Drunk, are we? Link to post Share on other sites
Kate Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 i don't know if this helps but i am RIGHT where this girl may be with you at this point or later. i just came out of a horrid relationship four months ago. i met mark, a friend of my mom's boyfriend, a month ago. since then, we have had "dates", but he has NEVER made me feel like i was truly on one -- never even tried to kiss me yet!!!! THIS WORKS.... since i met him 6 weeks ago, he has done the following: 1)taken me to dinner 2)picked me up when it has been totally inconvenient for him strategically 3)taken my car while i was on vacation and suprised me with a "oh it was nothing" full service, wax and body work! 4)bought me medicine when i was sick 5)the list of little things goes on and on... MY POINT IS THIS -- my mind was NOT straight when i met him, and it is SLOWLY getting straighter -- BUT HE IS BREAKING ME DOWN! HE IS DOING WHAT NO OTHER MAN HAS EVER DONE, AND DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I OWE HIM ANYTHING. The fact that he has NEVER made a pass at me has been wonderful. YOU MUST seperate yourself from the pack.. of course, this may depend on age -- my guy is 30 and i am 26...but still, give it a try. and DON'T hang your head if things don't happen fast. BUT BUT BUT -- if she is mentioning other guys, flirting in front of your face, just forget it. be NICE, don't EVER show your emotion, but DON'T let her play a game with you. if you really think she needs to get her mind toether, fine, but be fair to yourself as well. it doesn't mean you are a welcome mat to be used or walked on. use your utmost confidence and you will succeed. read some books and get smarter. they will give you the confidence to understand basic human psychology and what to do. chase her but make her chase you too. just don't try to kiss her, whateve ryou do. let her do it first when she gets frustrated. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hey Kate - thanks for the post and advice. I know she's nowhere near ready to start dating again. She's currently working two jobs, one of which has been 12 hour shifts lately. Her ex is continuing to harass (perhaps even stalk) her by calling several times a day and showing up at her workplace. She wants nothing to do with him and he won't take no for an answer and she is now possibly considering a restraining order. On top of that, she is still dealing with the trauma of a miscarriage, and her due date was supposed to be next Friday. Throw in the fact that classes start again next week and she is teaching cheerleading, and that makes for all the ingredients for someone who is completely not ready to get emotionally involved right now. I think she really enjoyed our date, but perhaps being out with me made her realize that she's not quite comfortable with dating someone new yet, aside from having the aforementioned issues. She even explained that she didn't feel it would be fair to drag someone new into the turmoil of her life right now, which I thought was a very mature thing to say. If I were her, I would be nowhere ready to start seeing someone new, even if there was someone I really liked. For now, I'm going to be there for her. She needs someone she can count on through these tough times, and I will do anything I can to help out. I realize that something romantic may take a long time to develop (or may never develop at all), and I'm ok with that. I just want to be as supportive as I can during what has to be a very difficult time in her life. I'm not so much concerned about "our" future right now as I am with how she's handling things in the present. If we become closer one day because of my efforts, that's great, but that will just be a bonus. I care about her a lot and want to handle this right. Everyone on here has surely been a great help, and I appreciate your continued input. BTW, she hasn't mentioned any other guys in some time, and I can't be worried about that even if she did. I can only do the best job I can and hope that I am "in the running" when the day comes she's looking to date again. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by Kate 1)taken me to dinner 2)picked me up when it has been totally inconvenient for him strategically 3)taken my car while i was on vacation and suprised me with a "oh it was nothing" full service, wax and body work! 4)bought me medicine when i was sick 5)the list of little things goes on and on... MY POINT IS THIS -- my mind was NOT straight when i met him, and it is SLOWLY getting straighter -- BUT HE IS BREAKING ME DOWN! HE IS DOING WHAT NO OTHER MAN HAS EVER DONE, AND DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I OWE HIM ANYTHING. the above dude is a sap with whom you will most likely never sleep with. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale the above dude is a sap with whom you will most likely never sleep with. What makes you say that? He sounds like a great guy to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Kate Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 hey, alphamale, wtf? i put that post up here for a REASON -- get it?? the REASON being a good one. i am truly impressed by this man. and, unlike your specific train of thought, although he probably wants to sleep with me, he has focused hard on other things to express his caring for me. i won't bash him for being a human and having urges, the point is he has treated me DIFFERENTLY than any other man. and, if in your book that equals a "sap", then i looooove saps. because this is how my first guy got me -- and we were together 4 years. and i am a hot piece of a$$, too. nice guys sometimes finish first, you know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by Kate hey, alphamale, wtf? i put that post up here for a REASON -- get it?? the REASON being a good one. i am truly impressed by this man. and, unlike your specific train of thought, although he probably wants to sleep with me, he has focused hard on other things to express his caring for me. i won't bash him for being a human and having urges, the point is he has treated me DIFFERENTLY than any other man. and, if in your book that equals a "sap", then i looooove saps. because this is how my first guy got me -- and we were together 4 years. and i am a hot piece of a$$, too. nice guys sometimes finish first, you know. Well said, girl. Link to post Share on other sites
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