Don’t want to lose her, but feel like I already have

[Orthopod]

I met an amazing woman online about 6 months ago. When I first went out with her, she seemed like everything I was looking for in a partner. Smart, talented, ambitious, and just completely devoted to the perfection of whatever she pursues. Her interests and hobbies really intrigued me and I knew very quickly after meeting her that she was someone I wanted to be close to. Even though she was a few years younger than me, she seemed very mature and well-read and we seemed to have a lot of things in common. We went on a few amazing dates over the course of about 2 months and I really felt potential for us. We never had sex but were intimate on most of our dates. She seemed comfortable and happy around me and I felt the same around her.

 

However, as I grew closer to her, she began to open up to me about some dark details about her life (depression, sexual assault, ptsd, etc). All of which she refuses to get treatment or therapy for. At this point I had already developed feelings for her and was willing to continue having her in my life even if a more committed relationship didn’t seem possible at the time. I thought she could still make an amazing friend who I could learn a great deal from.

 

Unfortunately, after one of her bouts of depression, she became increasingly more distant. We went from being in almost daily contact to only talking once every few days and I became the one always initiating. I could feel her enthusiasm in getting to know me declining and it was heartbreaking. Trying harder to get her to spend time with me or to find out if there was a problem between us didn’t help the situation, so I decided to give her some space to see if things might change.

 

I waited a month before reaching out to her again. I waited for a time that I knew she would be free and lightly asked her how she was feeling and if she wanted to maybe catch up. She said she is still in a bad place mentally and that seeing me is sometimes stressful to her. This was just a couple of days ago and has me puzzled as to what my course of action should be (if any). I really care for this person deeply and want her in my life, but she doesn’t seem to miss me at all even after all this time (I haven’t seen her in over 2 months). It also hurt me hearing her say that I could be a source of stress in her life considering that all I have ever tried to do is make her feel as happy and at peace around me as I feel being around her. In the past I’ve given up so much of my time and emotional availability (and I don’t have much of it as a surgical resident) to try to make her feel loved and cared for, so I have no idea what would make her say this. And to make matters worse, it seems as if just about ANYTHING I try to say to her stresses her out on some level.

 

As deeply as I feel about her, I don’t know if thinking about her is doing me any good as it has only been interfering with my own life in a very negative way (work, dating, etc). I worry about her a lot especially since she has openly spoke about potentially harming herself several times in the past. At the same time, if she really is going through something that isn’t fixable and my company doesn’t help, should I just be patient in the event something changes down the road. While a relationship of any sort is likely doomed to inevitable failure with her at this point, when and if she does make it past whatever issues she is dealing with (I don’t even have the whole story for a lot of it), I really still think there could be potential for us. Even as a medical doctor who typically has a good grasp on the human condition/behavior, this has me really confused as to what the best way would be to handle things. Clearly my emotions are interfering with my judgement so perhaps someone else who had experienced something similar might be able to offer some input. Thanks in advance

[Lotsgoingon]

She's not going to make it past her issues if she refuses to get help. If she sought the best help, her healing would still be a challenge. But at least then you could encourage her.

 

You've lost your sense of boundaries here. You cannot caretake her. She's pulling away and you're hurting ... even though she's depressed and distant and can't be a capable friend to you. Maybe some attachment issues here?

 

Get on with your life.

 

My personal policy ... is that if someone doesn't get help for a condition, then I don't want to spend any time being patient about the condition. If she doesn't want to make the effort to get better (and it will take an extraordinary effort) there is nothing you can do. Nothing.

 

Let go. You got rescue fantasies going on here? Why aren't you focused on meeting your own life goals? Living your own life will be hard enough.

 

And no, it's not job to worry about whether she will harm herself. To worry about that is to live under the threat of terrorism. Move on. And your worry about losing her ... she's not there in the first place. You just caught her a few moments when she hid her issues.

[d0nnivain]

If she's that depressed, she can't get out of her own way. The worst thing she can do is isolate herself but that is all she wants to do. When you disappeared for a month, that solidified in her mind that you are not reliable.

[Orthopod]

If she's that depressed, she can't get out of her own way. The worst thing she can do is isolate herself but that is all she wants to do. When you disappeared for a month, that solidified in her mind that you are not reliable.

 

That isn’t what happened at all. She stopped responding and disappeared on me. It actually felt like flat out being ghosted. I asked her if something was wrong....no response. I asked her how she was...no response. I tried to send her a picture that might have initiated some dialogue....no response. What else was I supposed to do? Any further attempts to contact her in that time would have likely annoyed her further and it seemed to be the only thing I could to keep her in my life in at least some limited way (ironically).

[ChatroomHero]

You're still chasing the ideal "her" you have in your mind. Stop feeling sorry for her, stop feeling like YOU are stressing her out, look at it from the standpoint of you being great to her and she is not returning the favor.

 

 

In short, stop thinking of her as some poor victim of depression, PTSD, abuse...if you view her in the light of how she has behaved and treated you, you'll get a different perspective.

 

 

I think a lot of guys get caught in a trap of viewing women as a damsel in distress and stick around hoping they can be the one to save her. I bet when you look at things that define her "stress", you'll find you have things in your life just as difficult and stressful to deal with. The difference is you deal with them and don't ghost. She will always have "stress", it's how she deals with it that matters.

 

 

Her ghosting you and saying you stress her out is gaslighting so she can drop you and make it feel like it is something you are doing wrong, rather than her taking responsibility and ending it or communicating with you.

 

 

Basically judge her on who she is to you...a ghosting, baggage carrying acquaintance with no time for you and no desire to make time for you. Whether she is justified in her "stress" or not, if I were you I would take off the rose colored glasses and find someone worthy of you and move on.

[Orthopod]

I know. What you are saying is true. She hasn’t treated me right. She stopped taking any interest in my life, decided to ghost me right before I had to take one of the biggest medical exams of my life, and has no emotionally availability left for me despite all the support and care I’ve showed her in the past. For a while I put her interests and feelings above my own and was willing to drop whatever I was doing to come comfort her when she was hurting, even though she would almost certainly never do the same for me. But if she really is suffering from a state of mental illness, I honestly can’t tell if she isn’t aware of how she is hurting me, or if she does see it and just doesn’t care. It’s just so hard for me to see her in a negative light. In order to help her and be available to her needs when she was leaning on me for support I had to really let my guard down emotionally to try to fully understand things from her viewpoint. In my everyday life, I have to constantly comfort and support people without having that level of attachment to ensure non-compromised care; so to be there for her in more genuine way, I had to approach things differently by adopting this more idealized view of her. This may have not been the wisest decision on my point, but it has nonetheless created a strong feeling of attachment to her on my end, that feels seemingly impossible to break.

Edited September 8, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ExpatInItaly]

She may have been interested at one point, but unfortunately she no longer is.

 

Whether that's due to her depression or a plain fading of desire is rather beside the point. The result - for you - is the same. You have a woman here who is making it clear she does not want to have a close relationship with you.

 

Heed that. It's time to let her go.

[manfrombelow2]

What happened is, she LOST interest in you. And that is ALL that matters.

 

And, when someone has lost interest in you and wanted to say goodbye, you let them do it, and learn from it.

 

From what you've written here:

 

When I first went out with her, she seemed like everything I was looking for in a partner. Smart, talented, ambitious, and just completely devoted to the perfection of whatever she pursues

 

I am absolutely positive that you viewed this female as "The One", a concept that is totally wrong but often embraced by people who have the tendency to let emotions - instead of logic and reasons - dictate their thoughts and behaviours.

 

And by thinking of this female as "The One," you became needy, obsessive, emotionally over-invested in her, thus pushing her away from you because nothing does it better than being needy and obsessive.

Edited September 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Rude and advertising

[basil67]

I want to talk a bit about her being stressed out by you. I think it wasn't 'you' who stressed her out, it was trying to keep her end of the relationship functioning. Even returning calls or messages was probably too much for her. Thing is, she's using all of her energy just to put one foot infront of the other. Anything on top of that is going to stress her out. And this includes you. I includes her friends and her work. She's simply not in a place to take on anything but her own mental illness at present.

 

You sound like a very caring soul - it's probably one of the reasons why you chose medicine as a career. So put your professional hat on for a bit: all the care in the world won't persuade someone to make the right decisions about their physical or mental health if they aren't ready to change themselves. This woman isn't ready.

Edited September 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Maddie82]

I feel sad for you. You sound like a great guy with so much to offer, but unfortunately her issues are for her to deal with and as long as she refuses to get help for it then no relationship will ever work out for her. It's not you. She has never processed her past ordeals and this unfortunately hinders her future.

[d0nnivain]

It's not a fault thing.

 

I'm trying to help you understand how depressed people think. They tell you to go away or ghost. When you listen & give them space they classify you as unreliable. It's a messed up mindset.

 

She is not in any head space where she can be a good SO to you. Let her go. Trying to date her will be like trying to walk in quicksand

[Orthopod]

It really is an uncomfortable spot to be in. If someone doesn’t want to keep in touch with you and you reach out to them, you aren’t respecting their boundaries/privacy. And then if you just leave them alone, you can be considered as uncaring all while going though a great deal of anxiety that you may never hear from them again. Had I not asked her how she was doing after several weeks of silence, I honestly don’t know if I would have ever heard anything out of her again. It just seems like such a lose-lose situation and it really is enough to break even the most stable-minded individuals. It really wasn’t easy giving her a month of space either considering the state she was in the last time I saw her (dark room, in bed, almost catatonically depressed, talking about not wanting to live anymore, etc).

Edited September 8, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[Orthopod]

I feel sad for you. You sound like a great guy with so much to offer, but unfortunately her issues are for her to deal with and as long as she refuses to get help for it then no relationship will ever work out for her. It's not you. She has never processed her past ordeals and this unfortunately hinders her future.

 

I know, I just feel like keeping her around in whatever way I can could really benefit both of us. Even if its only in a platonic way. But I definitely can't generate interest that isn't there on her end. I text her every few days and she typically only exchanges a few short messages with me (can't keep a conversation going with her anymore). I don't know if it is best to just stop doing this, especially if it's impeding her progress (which is something I never really considered until recently).

[Lotsgoingon]

Smart, talented, ambitious, and just completely devoted to the perfection of whatever she pursues.

Really? Perfection in everything she pursues? That's a total recipe for depression. Horrible way to live. Life isn't about doing everything perfectly? Is she a God?

 

Lots of life isn't about achievement or perfection. I dance and enjoy it even if I'm not the best dancer. Don't need to be the best dancer. You play whatever sport or hobby for fun ... totally fine to suck at it.

 

The trap awaiting perfectionists is that you work hard at everything (in order to be perfect) but instead of feeling good for an achievement, you only feel like you did what you SHOULD HAVE done.

 

On a scale of -10 to + 10 for mood. The perfectionist can work like crazy, actually produce something fantastic ... and feel ... nothing, zero.

 

Dude, run when you notice someone tries to do everything perfectly. Run. That's so not healthy. Said by a recovering perfectionist who barely caught myself and revered course before perfectionism nearly destroyed my life.

[I'veseenbetterlol]

In short, stop thinking of her as some poor victim of depression, PTSD, abuse...if you view her in the light of how she has behaved and treated you, you'll get a different perspective.

 

Good advice here! Just because someone is going through something rough doesn't mean they can treat you like crap. Leave her alone, if she won't open up to you, you can't help her in any way.

 

Also consider the possibility that she might me making some things up. This is a very easy way out of dating you and not making her look bad. Idk I just find the situation to be convenient, all of sudden she has issues and you are stressing her out more. Whether she is lying or not, she is mistreating you. No life hardships gives anyone an excuse to treat someone else badly.

 

Also once you feel like you are losing the person, you've already lost them. Just speaking from experience.

Edited September 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[JustBHappy]

Your passion for caring as displayed in your career choice is what has you conflicted. She could very well be suffering from a horrific past, depression etc and even if your only desire at this point is a platonic relationship & you care about her psychological wellbeing then step away; you are unintentionally crowding her. I worked for a psychiatrist and I saw patients suddenly and without warning shut loving family members and friends out of their lives; therefore, such behaviors are not uncommon and are out of your control. Let her know that your "only interest" is that of a friend and that you are available if she ever wants/needs to talk and then give her space; stop communicating with her, she feels smothered. If she is simply not interested in having you in her life then you will know. You seem like a great person, so don't punish yourself by holding onto something that simply does not exist. My hope is that she gets the help that she needs to treat her depression as well as to prevent self harm, and that someday she can live a happy life. Remember that you cannot lose something that you never truly had and a few intimate encounters do not solidify a relationship nor a friendship. Best of Luck

[Gretchen12]

When you do online dating, you enter a world that's foreign to you. Stay on OLD long enough, you will get your introduction to the world of mental illness, depression, disorders. She seemed too good to be true. And you found out what's the catch.

You need to deal with your own end of the matter. You got very much attached and you are having trouble dealing with being cut off. The person who invested more, gave more, will be more attached. You have more to lose (namely, all that emotional investment).

She will not let you help her, but you can help others like her. It redirects your energy. When I struggled with being attached to a guy who was depressed and suicidal and who pushed me away, I decided to volunteer for a suicide prevention organization. Very quickly (within a week) I was "cured" because it gave me perspective, it became more open, no longer just me and him.

Anyway, I can almost guarantee this woman will be back on online dating sites soon, if not already. You're not the first and you won't be the last that tried to help/love.

[ChatroomHero]

But if she really is suffering from a state of mental illness, I honestly can’t tell if she isn’t aware of how she is hurting me, or if she does see it and just doesn’t care. It’s just so hard for me to see her in a negative light. In order to help her and be available to her needs when she was leaning on me for support I had to really let my guard down emotionally to try to fully understand things from her viewpoint. ... I had to approach things differently by adopting this more idealized view of her. This may have not been the wisest decision on my point, but it has nonetheless created a strong feeling of attachment to her on my end, that feels seemingly impossible to break.

 

As long as you recognize it and know when you are making a bad decision and choose to do so willingly, no problem. Eventually it will work itself out one way or another and you won't truly be blindsided and you obviously see the situation for what it is but just haven't accepted it.

 

I always likened that situation to being on a sinking ship in the middle of the ocean with a life raft 4' away from the boat, but for some reason you just can't seem to move your feet to jump off the boat. You know you should. There is no reason why you can't. But for some reason you just can't do it.

 

In your quote above, what I see is you trying to find a reason to justify her behavior. Usually what helps snap me out of a situation like this is to think of the future. I bet you have stopped doing that with her because subconsciously you know it's a grim picture you don't want to deal with. When you first started going out, you might have thought how nice it would be to wake up with her on a lazy Saturday and spend a day together, just perfect. Now that you now her, mental issues or not, you know that will never happen. 8 years from now if you are still with her, she won't have time for you. She'll say you stress her out when it benefits her not to have you around. You'll see her on Monday and then 'poof', not a peep until the following Monday...over, over and over.

 

It really does sound like you have a case of white knight syndrome. People tend to forget that poor people, people that suffer from PTSD, abused people, depressed people, etc...can all be a**holes too. Other people in horrible situations, stressed, abused etc. are good people that don't act like a**holes and don't need someone to lean on. Those people may like having someone to lean on, but they don't NEED someone. This girl did not NEED you to lean on. She took the support you gave her but it was worth very little to her because she didn't need it.

 

Don't give her too much of a pass to behave poorly because of some 'hardship' that can't be quantified. Look at the situation with her from her perspective - All the nice caring acts you did for her, the times that you were there and gave something up to help her...eh, no biggie to her. It's like you invested in a $100K car and she didn't so she doesn't care if she gets Taco Bell grease on the seat and spills a pop on the floor and doesn't clean it up because she is not really invested. She's still happy if you let her borrow it when she needs it, but doesn't care to take a trip with you driving in it.

[Orthopod]

That is a really good analogy you used. And you are right by saying I am falling into the "white knight" archetype with my actions lately. It is just so painful to cut her lose when I felt so much potential for us (both platonic and romantic) when we were spending time together. Even though she is clinically depressed in every sense of the term, we have so much in common and her condition wasn't made apparent to me until about 2 months after I started seeing her. It's so hard dating other women with her on my mind and it's honestly something that I didn't ever think would affect me in this way. I do feel like continuing to interact with her is akin to being on a sinking ship that is likely to drag me down with her into a state of hopeless depression but letting go of her is a challenge quite like one I've never experienced before in my life. I've had a lot of relationships in the past, but none that have affected me quite like this.

Edited September 8, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[in_absentia]

10 characters

Edited September 8, 2019 by in_absentia

[Orthopod]

10 characters

 

I already read what you posted previously. It was good and probably what I needed to hear. If that is really the state she is in and she doesn't want me in her life, then maybe I am wasting my time. I already have a stressful life and don't need someone in it who wants to play with my emotions when all I've ever wanted is to benefit her life in a positive way. I feel like I deserve someone who cares about me the way I do about them and if she feels that way after several months of not seeing each other despite perhaps a dozen attempts on my end to do so, then maybe this isn't someone who is worth my effort. I've spent a lot of time in my training understanding psychological states, and I can't "fix" or help anyone who isn't willing to accept it on their end. I really don't think this person is dating or spending time anyone else though. It is maybe worth keeping her on the back burner in case something changes down the road?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Orthopod

[CrystallineShark]

What would keeping her on the back burner look like to you?

 

I think it’s futile, personally, it will likely only serve to keep you from fully moving on and severing ties and make it harder to get over her and be fully emotionally available to date other women.

 

If it was gonna work, it’d be working. Let her go do her thing and you focus on doing yours. Don’t reach out anymore and try not to get too excited if she messages you, it doesn’t mean anything to the extent you want it to. In your shoes I’d be tempted to just block her everywhere so I could move on not keeping tabs or wondering what she’s up to.

[Maggiemay1]

She hasn’t treated me right. She stopped taking any interest in my life, decided to ghost me right before I had to take one of the biggest medical exams of my life, and has no emotionally availability left for me despite all the support and care I’ve showed her in the past. For a while I put her interests and feelings above my own and was willing to drop whatever I was doing to come comfort her when she was hurting, even though she would almost certainly never do the same for me.

 

It’s just so hard for me to see her in a negative light.

 

Do you really believe the above description of her was seeing her in a positive light?

 

It’s a realistic perception of who she is. Not positive or negative.

 

How she got to be this person you described is irrelevant to you.

She is choosing to remain a victim , nothing you can do about it.

 

If surgery was an option to save a patients life but the patient refuses to undergo surgery there is not a damn thing you can do about it , because while you might have the potential to save their life , it’s not your choice, it’s theirs.

[Orthopod]

What would keeping her on the back burner look like to you?

 

I think it’s futile, personally, it will likely only serve to keep you from fully moving on and severing ties and make it harder to get over her and be fully emotionally available to date other women.

 

If it was gonna work, it’d be working. Let her go do her thing and you focus on doing yours. Don’t reach out anymore and try not to get too excited if she messages you, it doesn’t mean anything to the extent you want it to. In your shoes I’d be tempted to just block her everywhere so I could move on not keeping tabs or wondering what she’s up to.

 

I suppose this makes sense. It still feels awful though and I just hate being in a position with no options whatsoever other than cutting her lose. Even though my absence doesn’t seem to bother her, it still makes me feel bad to do. Maybe this is just my overly empathetic demeanor talking, but I really have trouble holding people accountable for things out of their control, even if they ended up hurting me in the process.

[MountainGirl111]

One of the things that stood out to me, Orthopod is that you come across as viewing her as sort ideal mate in some respects. And maybe you even see her as being a perfectionist on the plus side. Perhaps that is because you can relate to that? They say opposites attract, but like attracts like as well. Maybe you see in her some of your own fine qualities. I am a perfectionist in recovery. I've been a perfectionist for as long as I can remember....BUT....It doesn't always bring me joy. It's a double edged sword and it can cut both ways. Yes, making perfect things and doing things perfectly can bring satisfaction....but there is also BEAUTY in imperfection.

 

I dated a perfectionist for awhile ... at first we just hit it off and really clicked; seemed to understand one another well...but as time went on I realized that not only was he a perfectionist, he expected me to always be "perfect"... I ended up feeling smothered and controlled. He was such a perfectionist that he could never admit to being wrong, even if he was...for a perfectionist to admit such a thing is hard because then they have to come face to face with the fact they are not perfect afterall...(and the reason I can write about this so freely is because of dealing with my own brand of perfectionism.)

 

I've grown to know that I am harder on myself than many other people are...and it doesn't have to be that way!

 

There are many things that can "shape" a person; their childhood, particularly what parents expect from their kids. Any trauma they've been through. Drugs, alcohol. You name it. It all has some type of impact. Unless she is willing to get help for her issues, she's going to struggle with intimacy.

 

In no way should you jeopardize things in your own life in trying to fix hers. She has to fix it herself.