Demonised for expressing anger

[Sunnydaysandsome]

I am a very passionate woman who likes to speak her mind. I've had a few disappointing dating experiences like most people.

 

The difference between me and other women is that other women don't seem to get angry (the women I know of) of course this is what they say they could feel angry. They just do the fade and walk away.

 

I walk away and have no issues with ending things if I'm not happy, however I can't seem not to have to express my disappointment to the men.

 

This has resulted in all sorts of insults like 'bitch', 'bipolar' (because I'm a very quiet, 'sweet' person mostly who doesn't express anger etc.)

 

I beat myself up for years over this but today thought, so what. Why are women demonised for getting angry and expressing themselves. I never used any swear words I intelligently express my dissatisfaction yet it seems to be the biggest taboo.

 

We are raised as girls not to shout, get angry etc. I think this is the problem and men know that lots of women suffer shame and fear of judgement if they express negative emotions.

 

Of course these women who 'never get angry' are not doubt on anti-depressants and trying to live with all the resentment of being treated like rubbish.

 

Now I try to be kinder to myself and tell myself it is okay to be angry as long as I'm not doing bad things - damaging property etc.

 

We are told to give and take but I think that is the problem, some of us women are swallowing all the hurt and not expressing it.

[d0nnivain]

Anger is an emotion just like joy & sadness are emotions. As long as you are expressing your anger in a non-destructive way, anybody who refuses to acknowledge that sometimes people get upset & sometimes they even shout, isn't living an authentic life.

[Curiousroxy86]

I too struggled for many years with finding the balance of not being too confrontational and speaking my boundaries.

 

Women should speak up when their guy is doing something that is not okay or they have an unmet need. That suffering in silence sh*t needs to stop. However I also believe there is great prudence in controlling your emotions and speaking your standards and desires in a way that will actually get what you want. when you lose your cool you may feel better letting out your emotions but your not going to get the result you want. And personally I would just feel more like sh*t afterwards.

 

I do believe that a lot of people don't like confrontation/criticism but I kind of have the impression that men really don't like it to the point that they shut down or pull away. So even now though I am no longer afraid to speak my boundaries I still try to communicate my boundaries in a way that has the best chance of a man listening and being willing to communicate and cooperate so we can resolve conflict like we should as a team.

 

Though it may be human I don't think it's sexy to have to yell, cuss, beg, nag, whine, rehash, etc. and let's be real I'm not interested in a man getting on my case in that manner either so I get it lol. if you come at him in a negative way you will more than likely encourage fight or flight within him lol. Choosing a sweeter delivery Is a good strategy to try to get the best out of a guy instead of the worst when there is a problem.

 

Now somethings warrant being stern like "Joe xyz was not okay". But there's a difference between that and "Joe your being a d*ck". More than likely Joe is going to just yell or call you a b*tch or ignore you or walk out of the room instead of listening and apologizing and correcting the wrong. Drama tends to begat more drama. One should talk in a way to encourage solutions. Plus you have more control if he looses his cool and not you. When you lose your cool all its going to do is get you dismissed as being crazy lol.

 

now I also understand that I can be sweet as pie in how I deliver the message but that some men are just not going to respond favorably no matter what I say and how I say it which means they are the wrong guy. So woman in general should not be afraid to speak up and women (in order to succeed with men) be wise in how they speak up but most importantly not be afraid to lose a guy if he responds negatively to her feelings and standards. My narc ex straight up called me b*tch and hurled all kinds of insults after I attempted to communicate an issue sweetly and respectfully smh. So being non confrontational when dealing with an issue doesn't automatically mean the guy will fall in line.

 

Because some women talk and talk and talk but don't walk which means the guy not taking her seriously at all and just think she is hot air. Doing all that yelling but still sticking around the guy that's disrespecting her does absolutely nothing for her. It's much more powerful to simply say what you have to say ONE TIME clearly, sweetly and/or respectfully (depending on the issue) then break up cold turkey if he acts like he doesn't care and find a guy who is mature enough to resolve conflict instead of yelling your anger all the time but still sticking around only for this one pos guy to still act like he doesn't care, call you names, and then pull away.

[Versacehottie]

Sounds like it is in such stark contrast to your regular personality that it takes them by surprise. So maybe try to be a little more sassy in day to day regular life. It also might keep them from stepping out of line as much or taking you for granted.

 

Secondly, just because you should be able to get angry doesn't mean you are good at communicating it. i think a lot of the people who have more of a quiet, do-everything-right have this problem--one reason i recommend being a little more sassy on the day to day.

 

Then work on your communication skills. There are ways to let someone know you are angry or upset and work on resolutions/not making them feel too bad about themselves or the relationship. Most (all?) anger is a secondary emotion to hurt. I think people respond better when you are honest that you hurt them and you have to be a bit vulnerable to do that. In a way, it's hard to admit than anger. Also don't do black and white unless the situation calls for it. People will upset you--that's just life. You can't expect things to run perfectly and never get upset so it pays to get better at expressing yourself and learning how to communicate with a good person who upsets you now and then for the good of the relationship. Good luck

[smackie9]

Well we can't really say whether this is damaging behavior or not. We need to witness the situation. I would like to know what really brought you here. Did your friends tell you you act too cray cray, or did these guys you have dated just called you names for calling them out on their crap. Guys who lash out are going to do that anyways no matter how you express your disappointment.

[Garcon1986]

From a blokes perspective, if I was married, I would never be disappointed at you for expressing anger. I would however, be quite disappointed if you were upset at something and purely approached it from a perspective of "I want my way", and didn't want to talk it out. I'll illustrate a few examples -

 

1. I will gladly wash the dishes every single day and pitch in with washing the clothes (just one example of housework which I have no problem doing). If I was one day, slacking off and throwing my trousers on the floor, I would totally take the blame if you told me "Garcon is being messy". I would be very puzzled however, if out of the blue, you started telling me that you insist on the laundry being done on Thursday night, when I'm on call that same day and have to run back to the hospital. I would gladly push the laundry to Friday or Saturday - I won't forget - but insisting on Thursday is not OK.

 

2. I will gladly go along with painting the dining room a certain color; I know that giving a response of "oh, whatever color suits you honey", is insulting - so I will be a participant in the decision making even though you might have decided already.

 

3. If one day you were to insist that our children are not vaccinated, I would be extremely angry at you - I have very low tolerance for anti-science in my own household, but I can be kind and gentle with my patient families. I would expect that I can have a very detailed discussion with you and win you over to my point of view. I would never yell about it, but would be extremely firm with you.

 

4. If you wanted to buy an expensive TV, I would hope that you would tell me beforehand - I would be able to give you input on these large purchases but ultimately wouldn't really care what model it is. I wouldn't haggle over something like that but rather view it as financial responsibility.

 

5. I really don't like arguments where people play the "read my mind game", turn their backs on each other, and pout until one person tries to guess how the other has been hurt. I believe in communication. In dating I have the philosophy that I am totally useless at reading someone's mind except for the most basic of things, but am opening to being taught if you would be so kind as to educate me. I just simply don't do well with being the guy who "gets you" unless I am educated.

 

Take home point - I would learn the subtleties of being angry with your spouse and learn the many shades of grey. It will earn you so many dividends.

[BaileyB]

Of course these women who 'never get angry' are not doubt on anti-depressants and trying to live with all the resentment of being treated like rubbish.

 

I wouldn’t exactly go this far...

 

May I say, while you are most definitely entitled to express your anger whenever and however you like... I would be distancing myself if it became a regular occurrence. I don’t chose to surround myself with people who create conflict, lack self control, and make me feel uncomfortable...

Edited March 10, 2019 by BaileyB

[basil67]

This isn't the feminist issue you're making it out to be. Male or female, addressing an issue in anger is not acceptable behaviour....and the reactions you are receiving are the natural consequences of venting anger at someone. If one puts their partner on the defensive and they'll attack in return. It's not rocket science.

 

Those who don't get angry have simply learned that raised voices achieve nothing other than to further stir the pot. They know that staying calm is the best way to promote a productive conversation.

[Sunlight72]

Of course these women who 'never get angry' are not doubt on anti-depressants and trying to live with all the resentment of being treated like rubbish.

Err.... actually, no one has to stay and be treated like rubbish while eating anti-depressants.

 

A lot of emotionally healthy adults can express their displeasure without getting angry, without yelling or insulting.

 

Of course, there are all types of people with all types of behaviors. I just would like to note that there are more than the two options of - insulting/biting comments on the one end, and silence and sucking pain inside on the other.

 

I really agree with basil's post here.

 

I am not aware that men who display anger on dates are popular with women, so while I understand you have only seen the reaction to an angry woman on dates, I don't think you are being singled out by men because of your gender.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Sunlight72

[TunaInTheBrine]

This isn't the feminist issue you're making it out to be. Male or female, addressing an issue in anger is not acceptable behaviour....and the reactions you are receiving are the natural consequences of venting anger at someone. If one puts their partner on the defensive and they'll attack in return. It's not rocket science.

 

Those who don't get angry have simply learned that raised voices achieve nothing other than to further stir the pot. They know that staying calm is the best way to promote a productive conversation.

 

This.

 

Only you know the answer, OP. But I'll tell you from having professionally helped hundreds of people and also from having dated dozens of radical liberal types, anger is destructive to maintaining relationships regardless of its rationales.

 

Think long and hard about your personal life and where this anger is coming from, and address the root of the pain instead of expressing it so openly to men or hoping they will fix it.

 

I agree that there are much better ways to work through problems than being angry or aggressive.

[chillii]

No more than men.

l could just see the 20 page thread if so help me some guy got angry ,,,and the names he'd be called andddd, the psychoanalyzing he'd get.

 

It sounds a bit tantrumish to me, like losing a game, not surprised it doesn't ho down well.

[emeraldgreen]

Women are not demonised for being themselves. A lot of them just don't react the way you do.

 

You can be how you like. Do it! Shout and scream as much as you want.

 

Thing is, a guy has the right not to be with someone like that if they don't want. Flipping out isn't "telling it like I see it", or "just being honest" or "being passionate". It's a sign that you can't express yourself in a considerate manner. Being angry is not normal. You don't have to change, but don't give yourself a free pass every time you run a man out of town either.

Edited March 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[simplygirl]

Wow, I've just broke up with someone I dated for a few months because of this.

 

And I wasn't even expressing "anger", I was only expressing how I feel and want in a calm way, and would only get in a "mood" when he responded to me with bulls*** just to shut me up or saying "whatever".

 

But the mood was just being crossed, not even drama or anger (no shouting or screaming).

 

I used to bottle up everything I feel and want in the past, and now I have found my voice and I say it out loud how I feel and want.

 

What I'm getting to the conclusion is that the WRONG men don't like it.

 

The weak men with a fragile ego just want external validation from everyone, so they want a woman who is sweet all the time, who agrees all the time, no matter what they say or do. They take everything as a personal attack.

 

On the other hand, a strong man who knows who he is, is a man who also learned to express himself so he values that in the woman he's with.

 

To me now is a case of shifting from the first type of men to the second.

Edited March 11, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote removed

[bathtub-row]

It depends on how you’re doing this but if anger isn’t your typical response to things, then an occasional show of anger shouldn’t be a concern. I have found that whether displeasure toward a man is expressed loudly or quietly, they simply don’t like it. I recall saying something to a guy once who seriously pissed me off - but I just stated it in a very matter-of-fact way. Months later, he brought it up in a humorous tone, about how I had “chewed him out”. I didn’t even come close to chewing him out but he took it as a verbal lashing and never forgot it. So, I’d say it sounds like you didn’t do anything wrong but men are often excessively sensitive to criticism from a woman. Even when they know what they did was wrong, what they’ll remember more then anything is the fact that he made her angry.

[Hopeful30]

I think the problem is that you don't show your anger right away but let it steep. You say you're usually quiet and sweet, so a sudden display of anger from such a person is, no doubt, surprising and unexpected.

 

The "quiet and sweet" image you give off will attract men who are attracted to this type of personality. If you bottle up all your anger which suddenly displays itself down the road, the men you're with are going to be blind-sighted. They likely had a very different impression of you, and are not prepared to handle such "passionate emotion" as you so eloquently put it. Had they known that you have a different type of personality, maybe they wouldn't have approached you in the first place, knowing they aren't compatible with such a person.

 

Perhaps you need to work on being more authentically yourself when out in public, instead of this shy and sweet image. Maybe then you will attract men who are more prepared to handle the kind of woman you are, instead of men who wants a "shy and sweet" type who doesn't have angry outbursts.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Hopeful30

[simplygirl]

I think the problem is that you don't show your anger right away but let it steep. You say you're usually quiet and sweet, so a sudden display of anger from such a person is, no doubt, surprising and unexpected.

 

The "quiet and sweet" image you give off will attract men who are attracted to this type of personality. If you bottle up all your anger which suddenly displays itself down the road, the men you're with are going to be blind-sighted. They likely had a very different impression of you, and are not prepared to handle such "passionate emotion" as you so eloquently put it. Had they known that you have a different type of personality, maybe they wouldn't have approached you in the first place, knowing they aren't compatible with such a person.

 

Perhaps you need to work on being more authentically yourself when out in public, instead of this shy and sweet image. Maybe then you will attract men who are more prepared to handle the kind of woman you are, instead of men who wants a "shy and sweet" type who doesn't have angry outbursts.

 

I understand what you mean, but not sure if I agree totally with this.

 

Because being a loud and extroverted person doesn't mean she's going to be angry and shout.

 

I have very loud girfriends and they're the most sweetest people when dealing with things that would send other people through the roof.

 

The same with being sweet and shy that doesn't mean a woman is passive.

 

People are not black & white.

 

A smart and conscious man will take its time to know who the woman really is, only the superficial guys will believe there's nothing else to know.

[Hopeful30]

I understand what you mean, but not sure if I agree totally with this.

 

Because being a loud and extroverted person doesn't mean she's going to be angry and shout.

 

I have very loud girfriends and they're the most sweetest people when dealing with things that would send other people through the roof.

 

The same with being sweet and shy that doesn't mean a woman is passive.

 

People are not black & white.

 

A smart and conscious man will take its time to know who the woman really is, only the superficial guys will believe there's nothing else to know.

 

This is true, but the poster made no mention of attracting very low quality or mean guys. Her post focuses on her anger, which tells me this seems to be the underlying issue that's causing problems in her dating life.

 

She mentioned being called a "bitch" or "bipolar". The people that I now who have been accused as such, genuinely have angry outbursts that aren't consistent with the typical image they give off in public. The same outbursts from people who are consistently expressive isn't as surprising.

 

My guess is that the issue isn't in her anger, but in the opposite image she conveys that makes this anger unexpected.

[simplygirl]

This is true, but the poster made no mention of attracting very low quality or mean guys. Her post focuses on her anger, which tells me this seems to be the underlying issue that's causing problems in her dating life.

 

She mentioned being called a "bitch" or "bipolar". The people that I now who have been accused as such, genuinely have angry outbursts that aren't consistent with the typical image they give off in public. The same outbursts from people who are consistently expressive isn't as surprising.

 

My guess is that the issue isn't in her anger, but in the opposite image she conveys that makes this anger unexpected.

 

Or maybe the issue is just the anger itself that scares people (men) regardless of how they are?

 

A good question to the OP would be if those anger issues also appear in her other relationships, with parents, friends, children (if she has children), etc?

 

If it does, then you got it.

[major_merrick]

I think that women are expected to be less angry than men. Society does "allow" us a wider range of emotions, though. Men are only "allowed" to show anger, and other emotions have to be suppressed. Many men are raised with the idea that boys don't cry.

 

Since we're expected to be more emotional but less angry, having a very angry female around can be unsettling to many. Time for the world to get used to it. I am not the kind of person that others would label as "sweet." I think only my husband and my GFs have used that term to refer to me. I generally have a coarse, somewhat sour disposition, so people aren't surprised if I occasionally voice my displeasure about something or someone. My husband calls it "endearingly aggressive."

 

It is also going to depend on how you show your anger. If it is limited to harsh words and a raised voice, that isn't much of an issue. If it extends to violence, throwing stuff, or breaking things then people won't find that very acceptable.

[Sunnydaysandsome]

Thanks for the responses. Yes it depends how you express the anger of course.

 

I wish more women did speak up though, less of this 'give and take' idea and 'compromise'. I know what I want and if I don't get it they are OUT.

[kendahke]

You can feel however you want to feel: it's when action gets attached to those feelings that causes the problems.

 

Even in anger, there is a way to express one's self without coming across as being unable to control one's self.

 

Not everyone is obligated or willing to tolerate someone else's anger, be they crested of cloven.

Edited March 11, 2019 by kendahke

[Sunnydaysandsome]

Yes I am working on being more assertive. I am assertive these days but have a long history of not speaking out.

 

I don't think I need to be loud and aggressive, just assertive.

 

Yes men I've been with have never responded well to me asking for what I want or saying something isn't right. I tend to get:

 

- sulking

- shutting down

- name calling 'bipolar' 'bitch' 'crazy'(because I'm usually 'sweet')

 

The alternative is worse - say nothing be viewed as 'sweet' (push over) and be walked all over... no thank you.

[Hopeful30]

Yes I am working on being more assertive. I am assertive these days but have a long history of not speaking out.

 

I don't think I need to be loud and aggressive, just assertive.

 

Yes men I've been with have never responded well to me asking for what I want or saying something isn't right. I tend to get:

 

- sulking

- shutting down

- name calling 'bipolar' 'bitch' 'crazy'(because I'm usually 'sweet')

 

The alternative is worse - say nothing be viewed as 'sweet' (push over) and be walked all over... no thank you.

 

So there you go You need to present yourself closer to how you really are, and the men you attract will know what they're in for (the true you). All the rest seem to be attracted to the "submissive" type of image that you give off, which explains why they have a hard time dealing with you when you actually act like a woman and not a doormat.

[Sunnydaysandsome]

Yes very true. Although I don't think I come across as submissive as such, but if I was seeing me from the outside, I'd say I was 'easy-going' and 'laid back' as I am in many ways.

 

However I have very strict boundaries with men. I've dumped men over things that I'm told are 'small' (they aren't to me).

 

I had a sulky guy, he wouldn't speak to me and when I asked what was wrong he would say 'nothing'. I got fed up and dumped him. I told my friend, she said it was over the top.

 

I had another guy who took me to a party with his friends and left me there on my own, didn't introduce me to anyone. I got a taxi home and dumped him. Again I was was told it was over the top.

 

Another guy, used to share photos of me and him on social media (he was older and was boosting about having a younger woman - me). I told him I didn't like pictures of me on social media. He didn't stop so I dumped him. Again I was told it was over the top.

 

In my view I do what my guy tells me, all these things made me angry. I'm beginning to think either other woman put up with a lot of rubbish or I'm not giving guys a chance. I think you have to trust your gut, I don't regret any of the dumpings.

[Sunnydaysandsome]

You are right though, I think my issues have all come from not saying something straight away, but letting it go once or letting it simmer.

 

thanks for all the advice