What is my obligation in this case?

[augustin]

I met a girl who’s 23 years my junior and we’ve been dating now for just under a year. Everything is going well and I believe we’re both happy but recently I’ve had to consider something.

 

I’m pretty sure she wants to get married and have kids someday, not necessarily with me, but in general. I’m divorced with a son and I know for a fact that I’m not doing that again but I haven’t mentioned those thoughts to her because it’s not something you talk about out of the blue.

 

Next month is our one-year anniversary and she’s started talking about moving in together early in the new year. I’m not totally against it but I’m not totally into it either. I’m happy with the status quo where we each have our own place and our own private space and we take turns spending nights at each other’s homes. But this isn’t the problem…

 

The problem is she’s starting to seriously consider our future together and I’m afraid it’s not going to end well because of my stance against marriage and having any more children. I want to keep seeing her and I can even consider a future together, but without the vows and pram. If she insists on these, we would have to break up.

 

My question is how do I let her know about this without talking about our specific future? She’s only 24 and if she wants to get married and have kids, I don’t want to rob her of that opportunity. We’re scheduled to have early Christmas get-togethers with family and friends in mid-December, then a two-week vacation overseas over the new year, and then at the end of January/beginning of February she wants to start looking for possible places where we could move in together… What should I do, if anything?

[basil67]

augustin, the two of you need to have talked about this 11 months ago. How is it that neither of you has brought this up yet?

[bathtub-row]

You’ve been dating for nearly a year and never discussed these very serious topics?? Isn’t this something you’d make sure someone understood early into the relationship?

[augustin]

augustin, the two of you need to have talked about this 11 months ago. How is it that neither of you has brought this up yet?

I can’t speak for her, but for me it was a casual relationship that blossomed into something more serious. I never thought it would be something long-term because of our age gap.

[basil67]

Fair enough. I would suggest not moving in together without first discussing your long term goals.

[Andy_K]

I can’t speak for her, but for me it was a casual relationship that blossomed into something more serious. I never thought it would be something long-term because of our age gap.

 

Being as generous as possible to you, this should have come up as soon as you realised she's interested in having a future with you - like when she first suggested moving in, when you planned holidays together and to see family, etc.

 

What you should do is talk to her about this ASAP. You say you don't want to rob her of the opportunity for marriage and kids. Every day you aren't transparent with her is another day you've robbed her of the chance to make her own informed decisions.

[central]

It's time to have this discussion, BEFORE she moves in. Perhaps she doesn't want children, or would be okay not having them. Perhaps she would be content with an ongoing serious, but non-marital relationship for now, but will someday move on if she wants marriage and/or children. Don't be selfish and let her think this might be something other than it is.

 

Also, what is your objection to marriage in this (or any) case? I can certainly understand not wanting any more children, and how that would be a deal breaker for sure. Depending on where you live and the laws there, marriage may not be so bad even if you later break up. I thought I wouldn't remarry, but it has turned out to be a good thing, and has had no downsides. And speaking from experience having had a long-term much younger FWB, I can say that if you are very happily compatible, then don't rule out a serious relationship - even marriage - if you can agree about children.

 

Bottom line is what you each want and expect in the future from this relationship, and that needs to be established before anything else happens. It will be a lot harder to break up if she moves in and then you have this discussion, only to find you have incompatible goals. Don't do that to her - or yourself.

[d0nnivain]

You need to talk about it before moving in. Understand though she is going to think she can change your mind.

 

When it was all fun & games -- not too serious -- not talking about it was fine but things are changing. Disclosure is in order.

[RecentChange]

I met a girl who’s 23 years my junior and we’ve been dating now for just under a year. Everything is going well and I believe we’re both happy but recently I’ve had to consider something.

 

I’m pretty sure she wants to get married and have kids someday, not necessarily with me, but in general.

 

My question is how do I let her know about this without talking about our specific future? She’s only 24 and if she wants to get married and have kids, I don’t want to rob her of that opportunity.

 

Dude, this conversation should have come up quite a while ago - and honestly, not having it is extremely unfair to her.

 

You are twice her age, so you are going to have to take the lead in somethings. I know what you are doing now works for YOU - but come on' you know long term it won't work for HER. If you love her, quit being selfish.

 

I am someone who never wants kids. I have known this for a very long time.

 

You know when I have the "I am not ever having kids" talk? Within the first month of dating. After all, its only fair. I don't want to waste anyone's time.

 

For many, dating is about finding a life partner, and part of that is having a shared vision. If someone wants kids, I am not the person for them.

 

If a woman wants kids, you are not the man for her.

 

Do not let her move in, and you should have had this conversation months ago. You are wasting her time, and if she does want kids and a family, now is the time to meet Mr. Right, because you are not him.

 

Man up, be the adult, and have the conversation two mature adults should have had a long time ago.

[kendahke]

You need to spell out to her exactly what you are not going to be doing and you're going to have to let her go to find a man who wants her to have his babies. She deserves all the information on which to make her informed decision and you've been patently unfair in hiding this from her--it's information she is entitled to. To not say anything all this time reeks of manipulation.

 

Don't be selfish when you know your path is taking you no where near where hers is leading.

 

A woman 23 years your junior isn't likely to want to go through life childless unless she just doesn't want children--and this chick ain't that chick. The longer you keep this from her while encouraging her to keep in this relationship for you, the bigger her resentment upon discovery is going to be because you've been playing her out on a lie of omission all this time. Bad form, dude.

 

You need to cut her loose.

Edited November 20, 2018 by kendahke

[smackie9]

Time to end it....seriously why didn't you have this conversation a year ago???? So now she's invested a year of her life in YOU, and now you say you two have different future expectations...be fair and tell her....have that talk. If it doesn't end well that's fine at least you are not wasting her time anymore.

[Lotsgoingon]

You can say something along the lines of:

 

"Look, we've discussed moving in together, and I need to tell you something. I didn't expect to fall for you so hard. I thought we were casual, but over time, I've become really fond of you. And I think you're really special.

 

But ... I need to tell you that I really can't see myself having any more children. I hate to tell you this, but I have to tell you because I know you are looking forward to being married with children. And I don't see that happening with me."

 

This is best done in person--NOT hiding emotions ... That is, if you break into tears, let yourself do so, that's good! ... If you're nervous (of course you will be) say so at the start. Don't be cold and distant. That sends dismissive energy to the other person.

 

"I need to talk to you about something important and I'm really nervous."

 

And as the others have said, you need to have this conversation before moving in together.

[augustin]

Thank you to everyone who responded.

 

A lot of people are questioning why we didn’t have a discussion about kids and marriage earlier but we’ve only been together less than a year and we haven’t even talked about being exclusive with each other. I’m happy the way things are and frankly, I don’t believe it’s my responsibility to bring up the subject about commitment. Women worry about defining relationships, not men.

 

With that being said, because of her age, I do worry about having her “waste” her prime years on someone like me who doesn’t want to get married and have kids. So I know I have to let her know, definitely before/if we live together.

 

I guess I’m just looking for the right timing. The holidays are around the corner and we’ve already made plans and booked a hotel and flight to see her parents, then we have another flight and reservations for a vacation, and then we have New Year parties to go to… I’m thinking maybe when she mentions looking for a place together would be the time to have the talk.

[augustin]

Also, what is your objection to marriage in this (or any) case?

Been there, done that. Rather than an objection, I just don't see any benefit in it. I don't want to get off topic so I'll leave it at that.

[augustin]

You can say something along the lines of:

 

"Look, we've discussed moving in together, and I need to tell you something. I didn't expect to fall for you so hard. I thought we were casual, but over time, I've become really fond of you. And I think you're really special.

 

But ... I need to tell you that I really can't see myself having any more children. I hate to tell you this, but I have to tell you because I know you are looking forward to being married with children. And I don't see that happening with me."

 

This is best done in person--NOT hiding emotions ... That is, if you break into tears, let yourself do so, that's good! ... If you're nervous (of course you will be) say so at the start. Don't be cold and distant. That sends dismissive energy to the other person.

 

"I need to talk to you about something important and I'm really nervous."

 

And as the others have said, you need to have this conversation before moving in together.

Thanks for the script but this is so not me. I’d probably end up laughing midway through. But I understand the gist of it and appreciate the effort. I’m not even sure I want us living together but I’ll definitely have this talk if we decide to do so.

[FMW]

You haven't talked about being exclusive? I can't imagine she wants to move in together if she's not under the impression you ARE exclusive. She's probably taking a lot of things for granted, she's young.

 

You know better. If you care about her at all, talk to her ASAP.

[RecentChange]

Only a year.....

 

She is 24!! You are 47. A year is a much longer amount of time when you are young - I am sure you remember.

 

So this isn't serious, you two never even talked about being exclusive - but you are going to go meet her parents?

 

Does that make sense? How old are her parents? Your age? What are you going to tell them? That you find their daughter young and fun, but you don't want to get too serious? Already done the marrige and kids thing, now you are just playing it casual with their daughter?

 

A year is way too long to wait for this kind of thing. So, going to go meet the folks THEN tell her your true intentions? To never really commit to her?

 

Come on man, that is pretty scummy, and won't make any of this hurt her less.

 

You are seriously old enough to be her father. YOU should have had the talks about where this is going. Especially when she brought up moving in! That was your moment to MAN UP and be the adult here!

 

They say our brains do not fully mature until 25 - you are playing around with a young girls life here.

 

She doesn't have the experience to know she is being played.

 

Do the right thing, postponing is wussing out. There will be no right time to come clean - it already should have been done a while ago, and the more you drag this out, the worse it will get.

[augustin]

You haven't talked about being exclusive? I can't imagine she wants to move in together if she's not under the impression you ARE exclusive. She's probably taking a lot of things for granted, she's young.

 

You know better. If you care about her at all, talk to her ASAP.

We haven't talked about exclusivity but I am with her exclusively since the summer. I really don't worry about that stuff. If she's worried, she can ask. But she introduced me to her parents as her boyfriend so there's that.

[FMW]

Ok, show her your thread, let her read it all. I think your problem will be solved.

[RecentChange]

What did you say when she started talking about moving in together?

 

You two haven’t talked about exclusivity, nor the future, nor marriage, nor children.

 

But you are meeting her family, and considering moving in with her.

 

Don’t you think it’s about time you started communicating honestly with her? No more just assuming things?

 

You have over two decades of life experience as an adult. She has been doing this “adulting” thing for 6-7 years max.

 

You should have things more figured out than her. You should be initiating these conversations. She doesn’t know any better. It’s not her job to bring it up - your wisdom tells you “it won’t go well” but this is working for you, while it won’t work for her long term, so you are stringing her along.

[augustin]

What did you say when she started talking about moving in together?

<SNIP>

Like I said, I will let my gf know where I stand about marriage and kids. I’m just waiting for the right time. I don’t want to put a damper on the holiday spirit so I’m thinking some time in the new year. She wants to go look at places in February so probably then.

Edited November 21, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[rightondude]

I know it has probably been fun with a young woman this age at your age (definitely sounds fun to me) but when you move in together, you are going to be mingling finances and responsibilities more than you are now. You will be serious at that point regardless of whether you have talked about it or not.

 

Obligation? I don't know if you have one, but you know it would be the right thing to do to let her know your thoughts and have this conversation ahead of taking a step like moving in together.

 

I read a quote that fooling around with much younger (LEGAL OF COURSE) partners is fine, as long as that person leaves better off than they were. I agree with that from my perspective but to each his own, you don't have her enslaved and she is technically an adult.

 

I know I'd just feel like a huge pile of S if I took the best years of someone's life if they were misguided or misled into thinking my plans matched with theirs.

[RecentChange]

The right time has come and gone.

 

Fine, postpone, have your fun holiday (and sex). But DO NOT wait till February!! She needs to know she will be renewing her lease and staying put.

 

She needs to know th future she is dreaming about will never be a reality.

 

She needs to know this is a fun causal thing for you, and that you will never commit to her.

 

 

This is so terribly unfair to her.

[Lotsgoingon]

Tell her now. Plans don't matter. Trips don't matter. Money spent ahead of time doesn't matter.

 

Any fun you have will be retroactively canceled out as soon as you tell her this because she will likely feel betrayed and manipulated and worse, even lied to, by omission.

 

Just jump ahead--she'll most likely look back to your travel time (no matter how much fun it was) and say, "You went on vacation with me knowing I would need to know this information. Our entire time together was fake, an illusion."

 

You can still act with integrity ... but you have to tell her asap. There is no lack of integrity in not wanting to have children. That's legit and fine and your personal choice. There is loss of integrity when you don't share this key information with someone.

 

And dude, you do NOT want to mention this casually in the middle of a vacation on an island somewhere--when her guard is totally down and she's undefended. That would be positively cruel.

[DyannB]

 

A lot of people are questioning why we didn’t have a discussion about kids and marriage earlier but we’ve only been together less than a year and we haven’t even talked about being exclusive with each other. I’m happy the way things are and frankly, I don’t believe it’s my responsibility to bring up the subject about commitment..... Women worry about defining relationships, not men.

 

The holidays are around the corner and we’ve already made plans and booked a hotel and flight to see her parents, then we have another flight and reservations for a vacation, and then we have New Year parties to go to… I’m thinking maybe when she mentions looking for a place together would be the time to have the talk.

 

Soooo as long as you're fine with the way things are... things are fine. You've said several times you've been together less than a year and haven't talked about being exclusive.

However, you've booked tickets to meet the parents over the holidays... then you say it's "not my responsibility to bring up the subject of commitment..."

 

Why is that? Would you rather let her think and behave as if you're exclusive and there's a possibility of marriage and kids with you?

 

Really?

 

You're letting a young woman build up fantasies in her head because you're not being clear with her. Take the reins on this. Be definitive, but gentle. She needs to fully understand where you're coming from. It's unfair to her if you don't.