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Do shallow conversations = no connection?


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Old 16th September 2018, 8:08 AM   #1
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Do shallow conversations = no connection?

Been on 4 dates with a girl recently and while the physical attraction is mutually white-hot and we were intimate from the first date, I'm not sure if we are long term potential.

I find she talks about her job a lot but doesn't really probe me to find out more about me, so I have to tell her about myself unprovoked.
Also, I thrive on intellectual conversations but she keeps talking about surface level stuff, which bores me- can this be developed over time through shared activities? because so far, she seems to avoid these topics.

She seems into me and she ticks a lot of my boxes and she's good on paper.
The first 3 dates were on fire but this 4th date took me by surprise when I felt bored/uncomfortable the whole evening, but I'm not sure whether it was because the venues we went to were too loud and I find those environments distracting.

I guess I'm struggling to decide where to go from here, I want to form a deeper bond but I'm thinking either it's her lack of experience and knowing how to have interesting conversations or whether it's not a match. We have similar values and morals, career goals and even some hobbies.
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Old 16th September 2018, 8:11 AM   #2
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Not everybody is a good conversationalist. Many people don't know how to talk about the deep stuff.

Are you asking her Qs to probe her positions on the stuff that interests you? Try that.

If you get no-where with the conversation starter, figure out if you are willing to forgo intellectual stimulation in favor of this "white hot physical attraction." I will submit to you that while in a relationship you are allowed to talk to other people so you can get conversation elsewhere but society generally frowns on getting your physical needs satisfied outside of your primary relationship.
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Old 16th September 2018, 8:22 AM   #3
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My guess is that she's just not intellectually deep or curious about others. After 4 dates those kind of attributes should be apparent.

Maybe her social skills/conversation skills just aren't great, but for the most part I think depth and curiosity are clearly on display.
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Old 16th September 2018, 8:53 AM   #4
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My guess is that she's just not intellectually deep or curious about others. After 4 dates those kind of attributes should be apparent.

Maybe her social skills/conversation skills just aren't great, but for the most part I think depth and curiosity are clearly on display.
I agree.

I once dated a man who was a very nice man, but the most in depth he ever got was when he would discuss our local football team. I found that I could not wait to get off the phone with him, and I was bored in our dates. It was hard to let him go because he had such a kind heart, but I wanted more...
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Old 16th September 2018, 9:03 AM   #5
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Either a person knows how to converse or they donít. That seems to be a natural thing, one way or another.

My son once brought home a girl who was stunning. He has always dated pretty girls but this one was particularly gorgeous - long, dark hair, big soulful eyes, and unbelievably long eyelashes. When she was at the house, she said very little. After a few weeks, I didnít see her anymore and I asked him about it. He said she was nice but she never talked. He said, ďMom, I have to have someone I can talk to. Thatís so important to me.Ē He was about 17 at the time and knew even then how much he needed that interaction.

If youíre not having good, connecting conversations with this person at this stage, you probably never will.
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Old 16th September 2018, 12:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Swan89 View Post
Been on 4 dates with a girl recently and while the physical attraction is mutually white-hot and we were intimate from the first date, I'm not sure if we are long term potential.

I find she talks about her job a lot but doesn't really probe me to find out more about me, so I have to tell her about myself unprovoked.
Also, I thrive on intellectual conversations but she keeps talking about surface level stuff, which bores me- can this be developed over time through shared activities? because so far, she seems to avoid these topics.

She seems into me and she ticks a lot of my boxes and she's good on paper.
The first 3 dates were on fire but this 4th date took me by surprise when I felt bored/uncomfortable the whole evening, but I'm not sure whether it was because the venues we went to were too loud and I find those environments distracting.

I guess I'm struggling to decide where to go from here, I want to form a deeper bond but I'm thinking either it's her lack of experience and knowing how to have interesting conversations or whether it's not a match. We have similar values and morals, career goals and even some hobbies.
Hello Swan89,

Thank you so much for your share on this matter.

Here is what I suggest you so. When you meet up with her, go with the mindset of simply having fun and being present when you are with her. If you are going there with the attitude where your inner voice is saying "Oh why isn't she asking me about me?", "Is she not into me because of this", to be honest with you already you have lost. She will already feel through your vibrations and energy that you are coming from a place of insecurity and seeking approval, and this will subtly show from your body language and tonality.

Also don't worry so much about telling you about yourself, what you need to do is focus your attention on her. Dale Carnegie in his book How To Win Friends And
Influence People says one of the ways to be likable is to take a genuine interest in people and talk about people in terms of their interests. So you want to place the spot light on her. Make the date all about her. If it's coming from a place of genuine curiosity, women will resonate with that.

I will give you some pointers which I recommend you use firstly to listen to what it is she is saying. From now on, everything that comes out a woman's mouth is gold. You will then use what she has said to base what you will say next, this is where active listening comes in. Let me give you an example to illustrate.

Imagine you are on a date with a woman in a bar and she says she got back from a holiday in Florida. Here are the different avenues you can go to make it a better flowing conversation:

1 .You can give a backstory/anecdote about when you visited Florida.

2. You can ask an open question, e.g. What was the best part of your holiday in Florida? What was the funniest thing that happened while in Florida?

3. Give your opinion on Florida, whether you like or dislike it and the reason why.

4. Paraphrase it or repeat what she said about Florida and pause and she will carry on speaking. This is powerful as the woman will feel "Oh this guy is listening to me and paying attention to me".

I understand you said she spoke about her job, ask her questions like what she loves about her job? What inspired her to do the job she is doing? As there are values and passions beneath this, she ends up speaking from the heart, this is what results in the woman opening up to you and creating a deep connection.

Let me give you a list of questions you can ask, to give you a headstart and in advance prepare answers to this when you next meet up with this lady, in case she asks you

What is your favourite cartoon? Talk about favourite characters, funny scenes, favourite scenes etc. If you could have one cartoon character as a pet, who would you have? Imagine how much fun this can be when you share these amongst each other.

What was your first mobile phone? Talk about first Nokia phones, Snake game, flip phones, first ever smartphone, what apps you use the most, any games you play, whether she has a fancy case, if she is a girly girl lol.

School life: What sort of a child you were like in school? What games you played in the playground? Did you take part in any school plays? If What was your favourite costume you wore in a play or fancy dress party you went to.

What are your hobbies? If she likes swimming ask her what she enjoys and loves so much about swimming? Any activity she has been meaning to try but not yet got around to it.

Use this framework to get your started.

Also don't be afraid to tease her like how you tease your bratty little brother or sister like a cheeky chappy.

Putting this all together, you want to make sure you are present and make enjoying yourself the priority rather than "trying" to impress her.

With regards to venue, yes pick somewhere quiet and rather than sitting, don't be afraid to take a walk in the park, around town or on the river, and talk about the surroundings, this will also put pressure of the two of you sitting together needing to fill the blanks each time and when you experience something like nature or a boat going past and you talk about it, this is where you bond over things.

I hope this is helpful and good luck and do let us know how you get it.

Remember, be present rather than perfect!
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Old 16th September 2018, 12:41 PM   #7
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This is why we date....to see if they are suitable for the long haul. If she can't stimulate your brain as much as your groin, you are going to be wandering off having emotional connections with other women on the side. I totally get it, you also want someone that gets the private jokes even with just single glace, be thick a thieves, finishing each others sentences, etc....that intense mental connection.



I know this will be hard, but you are going to have to try to get these conversations going and see if she passes. Pick a venue where there are no distractions, and a very casual atmosphere, like a park or beach...keep it low key.
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Old 16th September 2018, 1:24 PM   #8
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Give it a little more time and see if she gets more interesting. If not, I mean, you can't marry someone you have nothing to talk about with. She might feel stupid or something and afraid or be uninformed enough to talk about deeper subjects. You can probe and ask her why she doesn't want to talk about something. Or ask her questions where she has to have an answer, like "What do you think about ____?"

This made me remember something. A guy I worked with somehow snagged a local model who was a lot better looking than him and kept her for a few years. She was sweet and subserviant, waiting on him, etc. which I know was the main attraction for him because he was one of those jerks who puts everyone down and then says "only joking." No one understood how he got her and kept her. Anyway, she was terribly sweet, but uninformed as a box of rocks and totally unprepared to take part in any conversation that wasn't about cosmetics. I'm not being snide here. That's the only thing you could talk to her about where she'd really participate and become animated. And he used to tell me how sweet and pretty she was but how boring she was. It wore on him. I could think of a lot of guys who would have been more than happy with her, though. One of my exes turned my stomach once (long after we dated) when I said how sweet she was and he said, quote, "Wouldn't she be nice to have?"
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Last edited by preraph; 16th September 2018 at 1:35 PM..
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Old 16th September 2018, 1:39 PM   #9
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We date the first few weeks to know how much we are a match or compatible.

I noticed very quickly that my current girlfriend was terrible at conversations. She didn’t graduate, left school very early and while not being totally stupid in person (otherwise I wouldn’t have kept her) she is basically illiterate. She write a few words in text usually very poorly written sentence and we are done.

If that’s a dealbreaker to you... so be it IDK.
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Old 16th September 2018, 2:41 PM   #10
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Everyone is different. I'm one of those who needs intellectual qualities in a man. I have a broad spectrum of interests, so being able to have good conversations are an important part of attraction for me. I just can't look past the lack of substance no matter how good looking they are. And yes in my teenage years I dated based on looks like most kids do....you learn these things are you go along, what to do and what not to do.
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Old 16th September 2018, 2:58 PM   #11
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Thanks for the replies. I do want to give it more of a chance because she's a good person and I am attracted to her, I think there is potential. The chemistry is there in small doses but I think I will have to dig deeper and put some effort in trying to coax her into more meaningful discussions by leading the conversation into such topics.

Perhaps I am expecting too much from her by allowing her to do most of the talking (she loves talking) but when I do bring them up it doesn't seem to last more than a minute.
Maybe asking her opinions on things like a previous poster said would be a good idea. I want to see her again regardless of one mediocre date and perhaps plan interesting dates such as museum trips or watching documentaries.

I'm no genius, and I don't expect a person I date to be really intelligent or have a degree, I just like an inquisitive mind.

Last edited by Swan89; 16th September 2018 at 3:22 PM..
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Old 16th September 2018, 4:36 PM   #12
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Everyone is different. I'm one of those who needs intellectual qualities in a man. I have a broad spectrum of interests, so being able to have good conversations are an important part of attraction for me. I just can't look past the lack of substance no matter how good looking they are. And yes in my teenage years I dated based on looks like most kids do....you learn these things are you go along, what to do and what not to do.
I always wanted intellectual properties in men too, and literacy. But the ex bf I probably formed the longest bond (friends later) with really isn't literate in that sense and isn't intellectual. He's fairly simple, but he makes up for it by remembering everything you talk to him about and bringing it up even years later and making you feel like he cares that way. He remembers what I like and still occasionally does something thoughtful like that. Everyone likes him. He's a people pleaser, and you can talk to him about things, but he's not intellectual. So you never know what might work. I've known him a long time.
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Old 16th September 2018, 4:47 PM   #13
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Read a book by Larry King : How to talk to Anyone, Anytime, Anywhere. A wonderful resource, from a man who makes his living by talking to people.

Essentially what he says is always ask the person questions about themselves. Even the most trivial of mundane things can be interesting. But one of the things you have to remember is also to present a certain air of mystery about you. Don't give it all up immediately, be mysterious about yourself but engage others as much as possible about themselves.
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Old 16th September 2018, 5:38 PM   #14
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I feel your pain, OP

I've had a few dates where I was super attracted to the guy and vice versa but there wasn't any intellectual connection whatsoever

An intellectual connection is part of chemistry just as physical attraction is

IME, both aspects of chemistry are either there from the start, or they never show up

Some people are shallow, nothing wrong with that, that's just the way they are. And like other fundamental aspects of ourselves, those things rarely change

You could give it one last shot and implement the advice above but I wouldn't hold your breath

No need to despair though, there's plenty of fish in the sea that will stimulate you in every way. This one just probably won't make the cut.
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Old 16th September 2018, 6:12 PM   #15
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You can judge someone too soon. When I first moved to a new town decades ago, I immediately got a crush on an asst manager at the record store where I worked. I was not shy. I tried to talk to him as much as possible. He wasn't an outgoing guy, and he didn't do anything about it for the longest time. But he would do a small thing here or there that made me think at least he didn't hate me.

There was a party and as the night got long with all us sitting around, he asked me if I'd like a ride home. Then he showed me his other side and was playing loud music and singing along and we had sex that night. Then.....nothing. He was still nice, but no follow-up dating.

Then I became friends with the manager's girlfriend. She got to know me pretty well (I was new to town -- nobody knew what I was about except music). This assistant manager I had a crush on got promoted and moved out of state to manage his own store. He came in town frequently though, having family and friends there, so he's come by and always say hi. Well, I'd moved on to a new love by then, but that wasn't working out. One day the manager's girlfriend told me her and Jim, the former asst manager had got to talking and he was talking about dreams and stuff and she told him I was real into Carl Jung and knew all about that type of stuff. So almost immediately, he started taking me out on real dates when he came to town. He had just kind of assumed we didn't have enough in common interest or intellect, but once he found out I had a little more substance than he thought, he was all over me.

So sometimes you have to really poke around and find out about a person. I mean, I'd talked to him dozens of times, but we hadn't found the link other than one band we both liked alot.
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