can't stop giving these guys the benefit of the doubt

[grays]

First of all, this really only applies to guys that I have some kind of spark with or else I wouldn't bother. The last ine I was crazy over from the moment I laid eyes on him. The current one I'm not crazy about but there is something unique about him that I like. He feels real and very goid hearted to me. I have a feeling that if were in a relationship he'd (mostly) treat me like a queen.

 

Soooo, this is how it went with the last one... The day I met him he told me he was separated. He was broke, had been laid off four months earlier, and was living with his in-laws so he didn't have to pay for childcare and could uber while kids were at home with them. I thought, ok, there is some chance he's actually married, but I dig him and I want to stick around long enough to find out. Of course, he turned out to be married. It all came out in bits and pieces, but around 5 months in, we ran into his wife randomly and he literally introduced me to her as his girlfriend. That bought him two or three months right there, but over time I started realizing that he was suave enough to realize that he could play it off to his wife like he meant just friend even though I was impressed by it. At every turn, though, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I ended up finally breaking up with him because there was no denying it anymore (tho he still does).

 

Current guy is brand new. I've only met him once, for like an hour. I am kinda drawn to him for his personality, but not super attracted. My heaet is not screaming "he's the one," like last time. But I have barely met him and feel like I want to see what he's like, get to know him a bit. BUT he's decided that he's crazy over me and he can tell I'm not all in yet and it's freaking him out. So much so, that last night on the phone he went really overboard on the phone and basically broke up with me (not that I'd say this counts as a relationship yet) because he felt like I wasn't showing enough interest. It was a pretty unpleasant conversation and I kept thinking if he does this kind of thing to me once we're actually in a relationship, that's gonna suck. When he said we should just end things, I was like, ok, yeah, sounds good. But then, ten minutes after we get off the phone, he texts and apologizes and says he ****ed up and he shouldn't have gone there, can we still have our date friday night. I said yes, cringe.

 

The reason my gut was saying give him another chance was because his freak out reminded me so much of the freakouts that I've been having with the married man these last couple if months. We broke up a couple of months ago and whe he calls, I always start off feeling like it's nice to hear his voice, but invariably I'm yelling at him five min into the conversation because I have so much anger about being strung along and lied to. I think my freakouts are more justified, and it's totally cray for this guy to freak out on me like that after one meet and greet. But I have empathy for it and I didn't want to leave him feeling ****ty about it. So I'm gonna see him Friday night, cringe.

 

I do understand what I should have done in both of these situations, but I don't feel it in my heart. I feel like I want to, my gut wants to, treat people as full human beings with a range of acceptable human feelings and behaviors. I think some people see a red flag and they think "f this, I'm out." I see a red flag and I think "what's going on with this guy, how can I help." With the last one I thought maybe it was the butterflies and great sex pushing me into denying the reality, but I don't think so. I don't feel this way about the current guy and still it's very hard for me to act on this pretty serious red flag.

 

And I feel stymied by it because I want to be able to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I have a friend who is very picky and will cut a guy off for ridiculous reasons and it feels mean and yucky. I don't want to be that way. But I am clearly going too far in the other direction.

 

Is anyone else having this problem? I'm assuming that before too long I'll just be totally jaded and tell them to **** off after the first warning sign. But I don't want to be that way. OTOH, I know for a fact that this isn't going to work for me.

[act00]

I think you're giving some very misguided second chances. I get what you're saying, though. I've had guys reemerge after a disappearing act and since I really enjoyed them, I've given it another chance. The reality is, in my case, is that these guys simply aren't into me, at least in a sense of long-term, and the second go-round hasn't fared much better than the first. These are guys I really liked and thought something was there...some potential...and that it was mutual...so maybe life has changed in a way that they can make that forward move. For me, this is worth it, and at least I know I tried. I haven't invested a ton of time and I proceed with caution, but I haven't regretted it. There have been a few where there was a high level of drama, or I was on the fence with them to begin with, so I have not tried again.

 

And there are some I go for a second or third date because there seems to be something...and there isn't enough. I can understand giving that second or third date a try, but don't prolong it if you don't make that connection.

 

You, on the other hand...what are you thinking?? Guy number one was "separated," unemployed, and a father (of how many and how old?). He was living with the in-laws who provided free childcare and housing...which is great to have the family support, but the guy was absolutely in no place to date...not even officially divorced, let alone hiatus of post-divorce settling into a new life and getting some flings out of the way and concentrating on his kids and his employment and future...the guy's life was in a shamble, and taking away the married aspect, was still not in a place he can build a new life with a new person.

 

Guy #2 has thrown some "bunny boiling" drama in your direction after one, one-hour long date and texts. You know very well this will not fare well in the long-term and he's going to be a drama queen. You're going to have to tackle his demons along with your own, and he can damage you in the process, and you're already damaged, as you fight the pain of your ex. Fine if you want to give that second date a try, but you know where this is going...and it's not going to be pretty...IMO, he lost the second date when he tossed you the high level of drama that was completely disproportionate.

 

Yes, what you have experienced have been some pretty major "red flags" with these guys. I can understand your empathy...I'm like that as well...but we're not talking minor cracks in the road here...these are major potholes. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and pushing back your unjustified insecurities is one thing...but you're walking straight out of the frying pan into the fire if you continue to ignore these major warning signs.

[stillafool]

Why not take some time off from dating and be alone for a while.

[kendahke]

If it's not going to "in fact" work for you, then break things off and block him... and the married dude.

 

Take a break from dating until you've got your manpicker fixed.

[BaileyB]

I agree with the comments above. Your desire not to be too picky and cut men off too early is causing you to make some poor decisions...

 

You are not wrong to be concerned when a man that you have known for an hour gets upset with you because you are not "all in" yet. That is not indicative of a healthy man with realistic expectations, and it is likely to lead to more drama in the future. It would make me want to run...

 

Take a break. Enjoy your kids this summer. And then, try again when you are ready...

[grays]

I don't want to be alone. I'm 48 years old and I don't want to meet my future partner when I'm too old and tired to enjoy it.

 

I'll probably end up cancelling the friday date.

 

I don't think the problem is that my picker is broken. I see why you'd say that for sure. But the problem isn't that I don't see the red flags, the problem is that I don't act on it.

 

With the married guy, I think part of it was that the way he talked about his break up and his wife in the beginning was so similar to how things were with me and my ex-h right after we broke up. We lived together for a year after our breakup bc of money and kids. And the way he described his situation was really similar, so instead of thinking there was a slim chance that he was legit, like I might have if I hadn't had that similar experience, I felt hopeful that he was legit. I was also clouded because there was a huge spark between us. This current guy I feel on the fence with. I'm not attached to him in any way. It can't be explained by me being awed by him. I think it's part empathy, but there's something else at play.

 

It's not that there aren't other guys around. First dates are easy to come by.

 

Btw, just bc it was brought up... the last thing I want/need in a man is money. Ex-h and I were both very successful lawyers. It didn't make either of us happy. I am now a much, much happier uber driver and I'd rather eek out a modest existance with another uber driver than love a man who thinks that career and work are the end all, be all. I am actually currently dating a man who I've seen spend $85,000 in one night, which I could probably live on for two years. It's interesting for me to watch him because I really get the feeling that money is not important to him, so I can kind of accept it about him that he works hard and has a lot of money. But his money still makes me uncomfortable. I see it as something that I can overlook even tho its a bit of a negative. Not unlike the red flags of the first two guys from above.

[grays]

Another thing, I wouldn't block someone unless something really crazy was happening. I feel like that's cruel. I am sure that's related to this problem I'm talking about. I know the rest of the world blocks people right and left. The only time I've done it is when a guy sent me a naked pic of a woman he was claiming to be with after we broke up. If someone intentionally hurts me, I'll block. Otherwise I don't have that in me.

 

And it's not that I'm not picky or think it's bad to be picky. I don't have the same criteria as everyone else, but I'm pretty picky. My problem with my friend was that her pickiness is ****ty. She wouldn't consider dating a guy who didn't have a bmw or nicer car, expects to have hundreds of dollars spent on her on a date, wouldn't date a guy without a perfect six pack or if he didn't dress like he stepped out of a magazine.

Edited July 25, 2018 by grays

[Gaeta]

I don't want to be alone. I'm 48 years old and I don't want to meet my future partner when I'm too old and tired to enjoy it.

 

 

52 year old lady here. I met my current boyfriend 2 months after my 50th birthday. He is my dream man and loves me in ways I was never loved before with respect, consideration, affection, patience, generosity. At our age we should be done dating boys or guys that come with a bunch of issues. We have the wisdom now and the years of experience to know we cannot *help* or *change* a man. When you meet one remind yourself what you see is what you get.

 

There are men out there with no 'issues', search till you find one. It's better for you to be alone another year searching and finding the right guy than to match yourself now with a bum full of issues. Look out for yourself, no one else will. When you're 55, 60 and 75 years old do you want to be with a drama-free man or you still want to be shedding energy on 'changing' him or 'helping' him.

[Gretchen12]

grays, I don't know what you're talking about with ignoring red flags. What red flags? Give chances? Why are you judging? It's normal to have emotions. When one person freaks out, ideally the other person calms him down, not escalate.

 

This is what I see you're doing wrong, in my opinion. You expect problems when there's no reason to, because you don't want to get hurt. When problems are spelled out to you in your face (He's M-A-R-R-I-E-D) you don't leave, because you can't let go.

 

What you need is a big dose of courage and strength. The courage to take a chance, and the strength to walk away.

[BaileyB]

At our age we should be done dating boys or guys that come with a bunch of issues.

 

I totally agree. There are issues like, he prefers things a certain way or he has an exc-wife with whom he coparents a child... and then there are ISSUES like he is still married or he is so desperate to find a woman, he has decided he is attaching to you after one hour over coffee...

 

I not afraid to be alone, but I am afraid to age alone. But - I have long since decided that I would rather be alone than be in a bad relationship. I’ve built a life that makes me very happy! I know that I have a lot to offer a man and a relationship. The guy that I date will bring something to my life, and it won’t be a boatload of issues...

Edited July 25, 2018 by BaileyB

[grays]

There are men out there with no 'issues', search till you find one.

 

I'm not sure if I believe this. I think everyone I've ever met has issues. Not every man is married or crazy, tho. I do agree there are men out there that don't have these issues and men who aren't this bad off.

 

I didn't mean to imply that it was ok for married man to be married. That isn't something I'd accept. But I was willing to believe that he wasn't married much longer than most would. (Though I gotta say that running into his wife like that always makes me pause, even now.)

 

It's better for you to be alone another year searching and finding the right guy than to match yourself now with a bum full of issues. Look out for yourself, no one else will. When you're 55, 60 and 75 years old do you want to be with a drama-free man or you still want to be shedding energy on 'changing' him or 'helping' him.

 

I totally agree. I know I'm not gonna end up with this guy. I don't want to.

[JuneL]

I remember you posted about this married boyfriend. When other posters pointed out his glaring red flags, you just brushed off. I mean, even if his story was true, shouldn’t he get his life together before dating other women?

 

What was the last straw the made you break up with him?

[smackie9]

OK grays why do you think you are still single at 48? Because you have been wasting your time with go nowhere guys, hence the "poor choices" comment that someone else made. Put you money where your mouth is....if you don't to be alone anymore, stop half assing it...put some real thought into what you want, and make straight decisions to reach your goal. That means kicking these guys to the curb asap.

[grays]

I remember you posted about this married boyfriend. When other posters pointed out his glaring red flags, you just brushed off. I mean, even if his story was true, shouldn’t he get his life together before dating other women?

 

What was the last straw the made you break up with him?

 

If he wasn't married, I don't think there was much that I needed him to do in terms of getting his life together. I'm not sure that there was a last straw, more of a building frustration. And a sense that there was no forward movement either in him breaking away from his marriage or in him convincing me thst he wasn't really still in a functional relationship with her. I think it just became apparent that he'd been in the same position for ten months.

 

Smackie, I'm sure there're lots of reasons to explain me being single at 48, but you know I was married for 25 years. It's not like I'm incapable of commitment and monogamy. I think that's the mode I tend toward. I do agree, tho, that I'm not going to get what I want if I spend a year here and a year there with guys that I pretty much know can't work out from the beginning.

[BaileyB]

 

Smackie, I'm sure there're lots of reasons to explain me being single at 48, but you know I was married for 25 years. It's not like I'm incapable of commitment and monogamy. I think that's the mode I tend toward. I do agree, tho, that I'm not going to get what I want if I spend a year here and a year there with guys that I pretty much know can't work out from the beginning.

 

Do you think that may be the problem though... that you are too capable of commitment and monogamy, that you tend to stay in "bad" relationships where you are not getting what you really want from the relationship, with men who are not good for you, for far too long...

 

I think someone may have hit the nail on the head... You need to have the courage to take a chance, but the strength to leave when it's not working...

 

Certainly, with the married guy, you stayed for a long time when most women would not have really given him a chance. I'm just curious, was it the same with your marriage? Did you stay too long... It's the very question that you asked, do you give these guys too many chances and are you too forgiving - because, you value commitment and companionship.

 

Just a curious question... I do hope you find someone. It seems like you have a lot to give a relationship... with a man who appreciates you.

[mortensorchid]

I used to date losers, I can admit it. Age has given me wisdom and many experiences now, I'd like to think. Ask yourself why you do this. True, you like a lot of others including me, may be fishing in the wrong pond. Where is the right one? If I knew the answer I would tell you, like I would tell all others out there who ask the same question directly or indirectly. But I digress on that topic. Once you recognize that this guy is a loser or unstable, what do you do then?

 

Are you type of woman who thinks that she can fix or change things? Does the man's being bad appeal to your want and need to be bad? Because what I can say about these facts are this:

 

1) You can't fix or change things with the person before you.

2) If you are the type who goes for Bad Boys or Alpha Males, the reason is because they are appealing to your wants and needs to be bad. If you want to be bad, be bad. Be as bad as you want to be. You don't need one of them to validate your wants and needs to be bad.

3) Seek professional help for things you may not know the answers to.

[grays]

Do you think that may be the problem though... that you are too capable of commitment and monogamy, that you tend to stay in "bad" relationships where you are not getting what you really want from the relationship, with men who are not good for you, for far too long...

 

I think someone may have hit the nail on the head... You need to have the courage to take a chance, but the strength to leave when it's not working...

 

Certainly, with the married guy, you stayed for a long time when most women would not have really given him a chance. I'm just curious, was it the same with your marriage? Did you stay too long... It's the very question that you asked, do you give these guys too many chances and are you too forgiving - because, you value commitment and companionship.

 

Just a curious question... I do hope you find someone. It seems like you have a lot to give a relationship... with a man who appreciates you.

 

Thank you for that last part. I think I do have a lot to give.

 

As for my ex-h, I do think I was too committed and too loyal to him. There were times that being with him was really unpleasant. And I made lots of excuses for him. I've wondered since he left me what would have been appropriate for me to do in that relationship. About two years after I met him, he had a pretty rough mental breakdown. At the time I was crazy in love with him and I didn't consider leaving him for that -- I wanted to take care of him and get him healthy and I had no idea whether this was going to be a quick thing or last forever (turned out it dominated our relationship for about 15 years). I still look back at it and I don't know what I should have done or what I would do if it happened again. The answer seems clearer if I turn the tables. What if I'm in love and feeling all entwined with a partner and something difficult comes up for me. Will it feel like my partner is right to drop me like a hot potato if that were to happen? Sigh... But of course now that I know how things turned out, I do wish I'd moved on 23 years earlier.

[grays]

I used to date losers, I can admit it. Age has given me wisdom and many experiences now, I'd like to think. Ask yourself why you do this. True, you like a lot of others including me, may be fishing in the wrong pond. Where is the right one? If I knew the answer I would tell you, like I would tell all others out there who ask the same question directly or indirectly. But I digress on that topic. Once you recognize that this guy is a loser or unstable, what do you do then?

 

Are you type of woman who thinks that she can fix or change things? Does the man's being bad appeal to your want and need to be bad? Because what I can say about these facts are this:

 

1) You can't fix or change things with the person before you.

2) If you are the type who goes for Bad Boys or Alpha Males, the reason is because they are appealing to your wants and needs to be bad. If you want to be bad, be bad. Be as bad as you want to be. You don't need one of them to validate your wants and needs to be bad.

3) Seek professional help for things you may not know the answers to.

 

I don't think the bad boy thing is much of an issue for me. I have enjoyed them while I was single, but they're not the ones I'm wanting to get with. I'm perfectly happy to dabble in those guys without getting at all serious.

 

I didn't start feeling like I wanted to have a real relationship until about a year ago. Before that I was pretty good at just doing me and casually dating/seeing fwb's. It wasn't until around the time that I met the married guy that I started feeling like I was ready to think about a more substantial relationship, and I met the married guy right away. So I feel like there's a pretty small sample size of relaionships here -- ex-h and married guy and then this new crazy guy. I'm not gonna count this new guy as a serious **** up on my part yet. I am here thinking about it and talking about it because I don't want to lose a year on this guy.

 

As for the married guy, I feel like a loser for having let that happen and for wasting 10 months on him. OTOH, I think that relationship could have gone on like that for quite a bit longer. It could have been a lot worse. I'm grateful that I was able to end it when I did. It was really hard because I loved him and felt loved by him. It was very hard to walk away from that.

[kendahke]

I don't want to be alone. I'm 48 years old and I don't want to meet my future partner when I'm too old and tired to enjoy it..

 

You also don't want to be 57 and with someone who is aging you before your time with their mess, either. It's better to be alone than to be with someone driving you to an early grave.

[smackie9]

 

As for my ex-h, I do think I was too committed and too loyal to him. There were times that being with him was really unpleasant. And I made lots of excuses for him. I've wondered since he left me what would have been appropriate for me to do in that relationship. About two years after I met him, he had a pretty rough mental breakdown. At the time I was crazy in love with him and I didn't consider leaving him for that -- I wanted to take care of him and get him healthy and I had no idea whether this was going to be a quick thing or last forever (turned out it dominated our relationship for about 15 years). I still look back at it and I don't know what I should have done or what I would do if it happened again. The answer seems clearer if I turn the tables. What if I'm in love and feeling all entwined with a partner and something difficult comes up for me. Will it feel like my partner is right to drop me like a hot potato if that were to happen? Sigh... But of course now that I know how things turned out, I do wish I'd moved on 23 years earlier.

This is different...you were MARRIED, you took vows so don't beat yourself up, you did what you thought you had to do. Unfortunately you didn't know when to draw the line and give him an ultimatum to get whatever it was resolved or maintained. Dating is different. IMO when you are dating someone, they are on trial. It's a test to see if there is stability and if they have the ability to deal with issues properly when they come up. If they are bringing things into the relationship that wears you down, you get out. That isn't being selfish, that's being smart.

[NopeNah]

I have to ask...what did that one guy spend $85,000 on? I run through cash like crazy,but that's a whole nother' level and i would like to party with him!

[Ruby Slippers]

I dated all last year, and while I set my bar as high as ever, it was a string of near misses - men who had a lot of great qualities and many points of compatibility with me, but none with whom I saw long-term potential.

 

I feel my results will improve once I get even clearer about my intentions.

 

Now I'm just talking to men online, sometimes via email or phone if the connection is really good - not on dating sites, but other channels - and it's very educational. One thing that's hit me is that men respond very well to a bar set high - at least the kind of men I like, serious, driven, open and honest. And the best men clear a high bar easily. It's refreshing.

[BluesPower]

With my latest and final GF, the key word for the relationship is EFFORTLESS...

 

The sex is wonderful and effortless.

 

The day to day relationship is effortless. Where to go for dinner, effortless.

 

Where to do that night, effortless. Whose place to stay at that night, effortless. Cuddling, and whatever else you can think of is effortless.

 

Every aspect of this relationship is effortless. And that is not to sound lazy, because neither of us is.

 

But we fit together like no other woman that I have ever been with.

 

This is what I think strong relationships look like, for me anyhow, who knew???

[brigit87]

I have to ask...what did that one guy spend $85,000 on? I run through cash like crazy,but that's a whole nother' level and i would like to party with him!

 

LOL!

 

I was wondering why OP is writing threads about other guys and not seriously dating the millionaire.

 

BTW I have a single girlfriend who'd like to date the millionaire if OP isn't interested.

[grays]

Blues, that sounds blissful!

 

The rich guy is a high stakes gambler. I've seen him win and lose nearly 100,000 in a few hours of blackjack. And he's always cool as a cucumber. He lost 75,0000 that night,and I think he tipped and gave away another 10,000. I had 4,000 in my pocket at the end of the night bc he wanted me to play and kept giving me chips.

 

I have a huge amount of respect for him. And he treats me great. About 3 weeks before the 4k night, I had told him that I wasn't feeling the whole fwb thing these days and I wanted a real boyfriend. I was thinking of the married guy. But rich guy (sorry to call him that bc it's truly not his money that keeps me interested) said no problem, I hope we can still hang out. So that night was our first hang out after that convo and I was worried the whole way home that he was going to invite me in and whether I had the guts to say no. But he totally didn't. I got a hug and a kiss on the cheek and he said we gotta do it again sometime. At that moment when he got outta my car I felt like he was the best guy ever. But I didn't feel butterflies.