Stay or go?

July 14, 2018

Hey guys.

I've been seeing this girl exclusively for just over 3 months now. I am however growing more and more irate with the situation daily and am getting to the point where I think it's time to make some decisions to stick it out, or to cut and run.

She's got a pretty solid stance of no sex before a long term relationship is established which I do respect, however, it does feel like on the physical side things are lacking big time.

In general she doesn't (refuses to) stay over ever cos she's afraid that it my lead to temptation, citing that she's "made some mistakes in the past". A week ago we visited her father in another town... First time I meet them. Come night time, she made it so clear that she won't share a sleeping space with me that it made me so very uncomfortable actually. I did try to discuss it with her in private later, and she said that she thinks I am moving too fast and that I should not pressure her. I want to make it clear, I'm not talking about crazy monkey sex here... Merely sharing a bed....a little bit of togetherness beyond essentially being in a pg-13 relationship.

We were also talking about going away for a weekend together but the above is bothering me seeing as the spot SHE wants to go to is very romantic with only one bed...how is that gonna work if she feels so strongly about this? I decided not to book it.

Then, aside from holding hands and little peck kisses there's absolutely nothing more. Nothing. A lot of the times she comes across as physically distant, essentially appearing like she is either grossed out by me or has very little interest in being physically close to me. Closed off body language etc...

It bothers me tremendously. She denies it.

I discussed it with her a couple of days ago and she was waxing lyrically about how much she loves me and is thankful to have me and that I should not think these things, and so on, which was nice, but I do think that something is amiss here.

I value physical closeness in a relationship and it just appears, despite how much she says she loves me and all this, she either finds me repulsive, or just isn't interested. Actions speak louder than words and from what I can tell from her actions, well....

It is difficult to discuss it with her because she immediately assumes I am trying to force sex on her which I really am not. It just feels like on a physical level, 3 months in, there is no progress.

Should I give it time? How much is so?

Thoughts?

July 14, 2018

How old are you? ... and how old is she?

Is her commitment to celibacy for now a result of her religious faith?

And to confirm here: there's no making out for hours (kissing, touchng without full penetration) going on?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Lotsgoingon

July 14, 2018

How old are you? ... and how old is she?

Is her commitment to celibacy for now a result of her religious faith?

And to confirm here: there's no making out for hours (kissing, touchng without full penetration) going on?

I'm 38, she is 30. There is a religious element involved yes.

No making out at all no.

It's wierd cos I was really taking it easy on that front, but a month ago she asked me when I was going to kiss her properly... So I thought we were making progress. I tried but she didn't appear too into it. Then I brought it up recently asking if she had a problem with it...she said no, but that she didn't feel ready yet...huh? So back to square one.

July 14, 2018

Look, if you want a woman who enjoys sex, don't stay with one who doesn't even want it bad enough to have it!!

July 14, 2018

I am a woman and there's no way I'd stand for that. It might be different if she was physically warm/affectionate, but if she's like that 3 months in it's hard to imagine that she's going to be affectionate once you've met her requirements.

July 14, 2018

I'm 38, she is 30. There is a religious element involved yes.

No making out at all no.

It's wierd cos I was really taking it easy on that front, but a month ago she asked me when I was going to kiss her properly... So I thought we were making progress. I tried but she didn't appear too into it. Then I brought it up recently asking if she had a problem with it...she said no, but that she didn't feel ready yet...huh? So back to square one.

Just adding... I respect her religious views... However, in short, I think 3 months in things are way too dead with zero movement in any positive direction.

July 14, 2018

Also, last night she told me that she had a dream the night before that I left her cos if her holding back so much. So subconsciously she knows it's bothering me. I just don't know how to approach the situation without her feeling pressured, and/or how much more time is really reasonable.

July 14, 2018

Just to rule out a con scheme: are you spending a lot of money on her or giving her money by any chance?

Because this sounds like a con ... where a person fakes interest ... in order to get money out of the target.

July 14, 2018

Just to rule out a con scheme: are you spending a lot of money on her or giving her money by any chance?

Because this sounds like a con ... where a person fakes interest ... in order to get money out of the target.

Hahaha no. I'm not

July 14, 2018

Good to hear!

July 14, 2018

What does long-term commitment mean to her? Engagement? Marriage?

Maybe her suggesting the romantic weekend away was her way of telling you she's ready? She could have refused the bed-sharing thing at her parents' house because of their views on it, not hers. My conservative mother would not allow that in her house. She won't even watch an R-rated movie without putting some serious thought into it!

July 14, 2018

What does long-term commitment mean to her? Engagement? Marriage?

Maybe her suggesting the romantic weekend away was her way of telling you she's ready? She could have refused the bed-sharing thing at her parents' house because of their views on it, not hers. My conservative mother would not allow that in her house. She won't even watch an R-rated movie without putting some serious thought into it!

She's speaking of engagement but things are seriously so pg13 I'm not sure. She makes mention of mistakes in the past etc and although I have an appreciation for it, the completely dead physical side of the relationship is concerning me a lot. Like mentioned, there's not even a remote inkling towards anything even remotely physical or being comfortable in my physical space.

The sleeping arrangements at her parents was her decision. Her father even asked what the issue was so...

I also thought that the weekend away meant she was ready, yet, the sleep issue at her parents came after that so there's a lovely mixed signal to deal with. I'm afraid of booking it and it turns into a very uncomfortable trip

Edited July 15, 2018 by bravojohn

July 15, 2018

I'm just saying that as a warm-blooded human, you should be able to tell she really wants to have sex. I grew up in a generation of women who mostly saved it until marriage until "the pill" became available. Here's what it looked like: Heavy petting and panting and misery and then an agreement to get each other off , which usually resulted eventually in rushing marriage so you could go at it. A sexual person will be positively rabid when they're trying to keep from doing "it."

I don't think a woman who is this cold a fish is EVER going to really want much sex, so as a woman, I'm just telling you that right now. I think her abstinence may be totally cooked up to mask that she doesn't even want sex or she'd be all over you for physical affection. It was a porn movie in everyone's back seat back then and a lot of them from that generation will tell you that all the foreplay in lieu of having intercourse was the best sex they ever had in their lives.

July 15, 2018

hhmmmm...'john, im sure you have been trying to genuinely respect her views, but actually it is obvious that this thing is bothering you so much that you are actually starting to resent her and it is also clear that whatever you are trying to say about her beliefs on line that you do expect more: so from what you've said so far and not actually knowing you; I couldn't be sure if you are serious enough in being able to respect those views enough physically to want to stay for the long term the way it is at the moment, or if you are not that committed to wanting to stay and wait for her s long as she need you to.

but whatever i am saying I am not saying you should just leave her like that because that wouldn't be the right way to just drop someone that clearly cares about you. you have to think about what you have promised her and whether you are the sort of person that is capable, respectful or loves her enough for however long it takes. (im guessing that you knew of these views at some point and im guessing its not like she told you all of this yesterday from nowhere).but more than that you have to listen to what she is saying to you right now and talk to her again so you know what she expects too, because if you don't she may start to resent you and it might be her that thinks no more ive had enough of this man!

if she is already being firm with you then she is already feeling that you are not listening and are rushing her. sometimes getting away can make things even more awkward if there are problems together.

I also think to get engaged sounds rather stupid at this point with all the frustration and desperation around you both, you've only known her 3 months! I also wonder if you know her as well as you think you do. you can be as intimate as you can be and still not know someone! it depends on the people.

although you are older than her there is also a mixture of immaturity and naievity in this post, and its not all about her immaturity/naievity and what she is or isn't doing. you need to actually talk to her properly about this again rather than asking strangers who don't know either of you enough to know about you real feelings, because it also feels like in a way you are looking for an easy excuse to leave!

im not blaming your efforts, im sure its been real tough on you, but you are a fully grown man and you need to be sorting this with her personally! not running online to ask anyone listening! because you will only know what to do in your heart after speaking with her , and if things change then you will be able to know more even if they change some time after she has spoken to you.

who knows? maybe she is losing interest in you and you are right to feel that things are not as clear as you need them to be; also an engagement: Im not sure that you really sound that bothered by the thought of it right now and even if she is talking about that it doesn't sound what is in her natural heart to offer you, it sounds like she is worrying that you are frustrated; but that isn't a reason to offer anyone an engagement!

I also think going to a hotel with one only one bed will add pressure for her at this point as you have already said she is very certain she doesnt want you pushing her into anything or feeling pushed into anything.

when the time comes for bed. if you sleep with her and even if she feels good at the time you will probably be leaving her in a religiously difficult place for how she feels about herself.

you say you've seen her exclusively for 3 months like its a big feat! sorry, but it also is another thing that says a lot about how your attitudes and past relationships.

the main problem is not just you wanting something quite desperately and that she doesn't want to give that level of intimacy back, but I think this situation will also come up on other occasions once she does consider your relationship long term enough.

how compatible you both really are only you know. but you either respect what she is telling you strongly or you don't. unfortunately for you I don't think the weekend away is her telling you she is ready, I think that is your hoping or wanting it to mean that and I think there is a part of you that initially cancelled already because you also feared the truth.

why should she be thankful to have you? she reassured you that's all. but thankful!

I don't think it is impossible, but I also wouldn't put my money on anything long term (and you'll have to take that whichever way you will).

the only answers you are going to get that will let you decide this for certain are from her. just be prepared for honesty and maybe a few tears! you will be going to a difficult place either way for her, so just be honest, kind and listen. whether you decide to stay with her or not.

ive been totally totally honest with you, no frills, because you need to sort this out.

it may not be the reply that you were looking for, but its an honest one. maxi.

July 15, 2018

hhmmmm...'john, im sure you have been trying to genuinely respect her views, but actually it is obvious that this thing is bothering you so much that you are actually starting to resent her and it is also clear that whatever you are trying to say about her beliefs on line that you do expect more: so from what you've said so far and not actually knowing you; I couldn't be sure if you are serious enough in being able to respect those views enough physically to want to stay for the long term the way it is at the moment, or if you are not that committed to wanting to stay and wait for her s long as she need you to.

but whatever i am saying I am not saying you should just leave her like that because that wouldn't be the right way to just drop someone that clearly cares about you. you have to think about what you have promised her and whether you are the sort of person that is capable, respectful or loves her enough for however long it takes. (im guessing that you knew of these views at some point and im guessing its not like she told you all of this yesterday from nowhere).but more than that you have to listen to what she is saying to you right now and talk to her again so you know what she expects too, because if you don't she may start to resent you and it might be her that thinks no more ive had enough of this man!

if she is already being firm with you then she is already feeling that you are not listening and are rushing her. sometimes getting away can make things even more awkward if there are problems together.

I also think to get engaged sounds rather stupid at this point with all the frustration and desperation around you both, you've only known her 3 months! I also wonder if you know her as well as you think you do. you can be as intimate as you can be and still not know someone! it depends on the people.

although you are older than her there is also a mixture of immaturity and naievity in this post, and its not all about her immaturity/naievity and what she is or isn't doing. you need to actually talk to her properly about this again rather than asking strangers who don't know either of you enough to know about you real feelings, because it also feels like in a way you are looking for an easy excuse to leave!

im not blaming your efforts, im sure its been real tough on you, but you are a fully grown man and you need to be sorting this with her personally! not running online to ask anyone listening! because you will only know what to do in your heart after speaking with her , and if things change then you will be able to know more even if they change some time after she has spoken to you.

who knows? maybe she is losing interest in you and you are right to feel that things are not as clear as you need them to be; also an engagement: Im not sure that you really sound that bothered by the thought of it right now and even if she is talking about that it doesn't sound what is in her natural heart to offer you, it sounds like she is worrying that you are frustrated; but that isn't a reason to offer anyone an engagement!

I also think going to a hotel with one only one bed will add pressure for her at this point as you have already said she is very certain she doesnt want you pushing her into anything or feeling pushed into anything.
when the time comes for bed. if you sleep with her and even if she feels good at the time you will probably be leaving her in a religiously difficult place for how she feels about herself.

you say you've seen her exclusively for 3 months like its a big feat! sorry, but it also is another thing that says a lot about how your attitudes and past relationships.

the main problem is not just you wanting something quite desperately and that she doesn't want to give that level of intimacy back, but I think this situation will also come up on other occasions once she does consider your relationship long term enough.

how compatible you both really are only you know. but you either respect what she is telling you strongly or you don't. unfortunately for you I don't think the weekend away is her telling you she is ready, I think that is your hoping or wanting it to mean that and I think there is a part of you that initially cancelled already because you also feared the truth.

why should she be thankful to have you? she reassured you that's all. but thankful!

I don't think it is impossible, but I also wouldn't put my money on anything long term (and you'll have to take that whichever way you will).

the only answers you are going to get that will let you decide this for certain are from her. just be prepared for honesty and maybe a few tears! you will be going to a difficult place either way for her, so just be honest, kind and listen. whether you decide to stay with her or not.

ive been totally totally honest with you, no frills, because you need to sort this out.

it may not be the reply that you were looking for, but its an honest one. maxi.

Maxi, thank you for you detailed response.

Maybe my reference framework is a little skewed on the 3 months thing, but from experience, I feel like things are dragging way too much. I mean, no making out even!? That does not feel normal to me.

I am definitely not looking for an easy out here, more some unbiased thoughts on the situation.

As far as the going away idea, she was so tremendously excited about it at first. However, the last while there is zero interest in the idea, hence my decision to rather not book it, coupled with her sleeping arrangement issue.

I think it's best to sit her down and lovingly convey my concerns, and see what the issue is here while trying to not make her feel pressured which in itself will be difficult.

Edited July 15, 2018 by bravojohn

July 15, 2018

ahhh...all I can wish you is good luck on this situation...I think you are going to need it.

but I applaud you trying, but this situation isn't really about trying or getting unbiased opinions....

its about talking to her and getting her opinions and hers only.

July 15, 2018

With the religious aspect, I think you need to be careful about this. How devout is she, and what kind of conflict will arise with being of separate faiths? Assuming you have children, what about raising them in such a faith? Depending on the religion, it may be important (possibly required) that her husband is of the same faith and devout as well. I don't know how deep she is or devout in her faith, but you need to consider this. Have you read about her faith and tried to learn what it's about? Would you convert and live the tenets?

I agree with Maxi. Some religions consider anything more than holding hands and a peck on the lips sinful. Early marriage within 3-6 months is commonplace. Don't go near engagement yet. It will break her if you sleep with her and then decide the relationship isn't working, using a ring to get to that next step. She might slip at some point and feel massive guilt conflicting with her religious convictions.

I think what bothers me the most is the lack of any affection or making out at all, and then you say she recoils at times and even seems repulsed. I don't know that this is something that will ever change, even when you reach a point of sex. Will she be equally avoidant of sex? I can understand avoiding too much necking because things could get carried away, but at the same time, there's got to be something more and some progression. Three months and no "proper kiss?"

She is wise to avoid sleepovers, as clothes have a habit of coming off, so I agree with her there. I partially wonder if her idea for the trip was to be "the time," a little romantic, but it's hard to judge.

As for sleeping in the same bed under the parents roof? Most parents I know, including my own, don't allow it. My sister and I both lived with our boyfriends before marriage and were still subject to separate rooms. Her dad apparently didn't care, but I would expect the separation.

I don't have the answer. I wouldn't be able to be in an affectionless relationship, and with strict boundaries involving religion, you have no way to know if this will change or not because any level of kissing or making out seems out of the question...and again, you don't know if there will be conflict over her faith with something LT. I do think you need to talk more about it, but if every time you bring it up she thinks you're pressuring her, you need to approach it differently. Maybe a discussion about her faith would help, especially as it pertains to sex outside of marriage, but I think you need to really consider just where she is on her faith, how devout she is, and if she expects her spouse to be part of it...you're worried about the sex, but the religion is a pretty major thing you need to consider moving forward as well. Marriage requires communication, and she needs to be able to talk to you about difficult topics as well instead of getting defensive. I'm not sure this can go long-term...you're not getting the level of intimacy you want, and it doesn't seem to want to progress either.

July 15, 2018

the earlier short message posted by mistake!!! sorry about that. this is the full version of my thoughts.

ahhh...bravojohn….all I can wish you is good luck on this situation...I think you are going to need it.

but I applaud you trying, and understand you wanting to know a bit more from other people, but this situation isn't really about trying or getting unbiased opinions....

its about talking to her and getting her opinions and only hers!

there is no bias as I don't know you, I feel for you and her in different ways. but like so many posts for dating, its about actually talking to the ones you have the difficulties with. they are the only ones that can help you to properly understand if things that are going wrong can be put right or not.

I also wonder if the age thing is maybe part of the problem too and that is also bringing imbalance in its small part.

im ok with age gaps if they work and are coming from genuine love and respect etc, many work out there and its all good news like any relationship that is good and working, but sometimes they just don't work and whatever this situation is you have to face it both of you so you both know what the situation is.

its not going to be easy, but then you know that.

ok, thank you for getting back. I have spoken in a very honest way with you and its because I know you do care about this situation and want to know what can help.

but you have the answers you need on your own doorstep! so very best of luck. it will be what it is meant to for you and her.

and I think if nothing else, it is going to be a bit of an emotional conversation for you and her.

ok, I cant really add anymore to this one. but I do wish you good luck with it. I think there is quite a bit of deep unhappiness surrounding this, and I think there is probably more would be fair of me to think of as I don't know you etc...

but just remember, whatever happens you have done your best and she has to be honest with herself and what she believes in.

ok, maxi.

Edited July 15, 2018 by maxi105

July 15, 2018

Maybe my reference framework is a little skewed on the 3 months thing, but from experience, I feel like things are dragging way too much. I mean, no making out even!? That does not feel normal to me.

It is certainly not typical! But, I have a good friend who got married last year (in her late forties for the first time). The "first time" she dated her now husband a few years ago, they dated for 7 months and he never kissed her. (She didn't like this, but loved him). They broke up for nearly two years and when they got back together he kissed her right away. He had been going through a lot of stuff in his life (including a sick mother) during that time and was just not in the right emotional space to fully commit. *shrug* (They are both very conservative Christians, by the way.)

July 15, 2018

Thank you everyone for your responses. So it came up this afternoon. We were having lunch and relaxing so we had a chat. She isn't ready for the physical side of the relationship and I'm guessing I'll just have to be patient here. It's ok. I did tell her that it wasn't about sex. Maybe her and my past have been a little Liberal in that sense and it's more about a physical closeness which can be achieved at this point without sex. Just being close is a start. She understood.

We do follow the same faith and I understand her point of view, however staunch it may be in my opinion. This each his own I guess.

I brought up the going away thing and how she has gone from hot excited about it pretty much "meh" very quickly, and that I didn't understand. She denied it. I painted a picture for her and she then admitted that she may be a little up and down and that she doesn't know what's up with her. I told her that I love her, and that I'd only progress with booking it if she is comfortable with it, and if she isn't, that I'm OK with it and will wait rather. She insisted that I do and that she does want to have a future with me.

She is aware that her behaviour isn't on a lot of times and apologised for it. We both gained clarity on where we were coming from and she spoke about marriage again. But, this will only activate much later.

Edited July 15, 2018 by bravojohn

July 15, 2018

I think sex is only going to be regarded by her even in marriage as a "duty." There's just no desire going on there.

July 16, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]goodluck with this bravojohn.