Do you support your gf/bf even when you know they will fall on their face?

[Gaeta]

My BF got in his mind that his new priority is to learn English and to do so he wants to be totally immersed in an English environment. He decided he will temporarily move to Toronto that's 6 hours away. My BF is 51 and does NOT speak 1 word of English! He can barely say 'yes or no'. He's not 16 anymore to learn a new language in 2 months!

 

I try to explain to him he should at least learn some basic English language before going to work there, who will hire him if he cannot even understand the task given to him? He thinks there are plenty of people in Toronto that don't speak English and work! *sigh*

 

He asks me why I can't support him morally. I can't because to me it's not logic and it's counter-productive! This morning he showed me 10 different job applications he'll do today, I can't smile, I can't be encouraging to him, because I know he's gonna fall on his face with this one AND he should concentrate on 2-3 other things that are much more important then learning English. All these jobs requires English but in his mind it means nothing....cause it's Toronto.

 

Part of being a good partner is to be supportive and encouraging but even when you know it make no sense and it will be a waste of time?

 

 

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[alphamale]

your job as a partner is to look out for him to your best ability

[Shining One]

I would try approaching the problem from a different angle. He has a goal of learning English. Support that goal even if you don't support his methods. I'd suggest alternatives. Perhaps you and your daughter can address him in English. You can watch movies with English audio together. Find other ways to gradually immerse him.

 

Before he passed away, my father taught himself Spanish in his seventies. He took it on as personal project to keep his mind sharp after retirement.

[Els]

I'd give him my honest opinion, and then my support if he decides to go with it anyway. Obviously, the consequences of failure would have to be reasonably small. 2 wasted months in Toronto isn't a huge deal (but what is he going to do with his current job?). Selling all our belongings to join the circus WOULD be a huge deal.

[Gaeta]

I would try approaching the problem from a different angle. He has a goal of learning English. Support that goal even if you don't support his methods. I'd suggest alternatives. Perhaps you and your daughter can address him in English. You can watch movies with English audio together. Find other ways to gradually immerse him.

 

 

My daughter tutors in English as a second job, she taught him a few basics like could/should/would and the why/who/what/when/where. He cannot remember them. I got him English exercise books age 6 ! that was the youngest I found and he rarely do the exercises. He got in his mind it won't work with us and he needs to be on his own in an English city.

[Gaeta]

I'd give him my honest opinion, and then my support if he decides to go with it anyway. Obviously, the consequences of failure would have to be reasonably small. 2 wasted months in Toronto isn't a huge deal (but what is he going to do with his current job?). Selling all our belongings to join the circus WOULD be a huge deal.

 

 

He wants to keep his apartment here and he'll rent a room for the time he's there. I told him to look up the price of rooms because Toronto is 3 X more expensive then Montreal. He says he doesn't care if he has to live under a bridge.We have a big shortage of labor up here so working again in our city isn't a worry.

 

 

 

The waste of time is concerning his permanent residency. He has 12 months left on his work permit and he should be filing forms for his residency not learn English in Toronto. By the way he was selected to immigrate here because he speaks French.....so learning English can take a back seat.

[No_Go]

How long does he plan to live in Toronto? I am getting that he's contracting but still starting a new job and giving up his place (I assume?) IS a big deal and it IS going to affect your relationship ... So I think you're at very right to tell him what you think is realistic or not.

 

Do you plan to be long distance / both travel back and forth while he's in Toronto? How do you feel about that?

 

Also, starting a new job without knowing the language is bananas. I lived 6 years in the Netherlands and I don't think I'm dumb but my 'Dutch by immersion' knowledge is ...well, NOT good. I had to take classes to start getting anything of the language and I was 24 not 51.

[Els]

He wants to keep his apartment here and he'll rent a room for the time he's there. I told him to look up the price of rooms because Toronto is 3 X more expensive then Montreal. He says he doesn't care if he has to live under a bridge.We have a big shortage of labor up here so working again in our city isn't a worry.

 

The waste of time is concerning his permanent residency. He has 12 months left on his work permit and he should be filing forms for his residency not learn English in Toronto. By the way he was selected to immigrate here because he speaks French.....so learning English can take a back seat.

 

 

Can he not fill forms for his residency in Toronto? Or will moving there actually set him back in terms of legal requirements for his PR?

[Versacehottie]

I think you should be supportive of him wanting to better & expand himself because that's what gf/bf's do. I think you should say a bit of something from another direction (rather than "you will fail" or "it's a stupid idea"). Try something where it will be like I don't want us to be apart like that for that long & WE can find ways for you to learn it here/I'll help you find some ways to learn it here. (you're in Montreal right?)

 

You can learn another language in 2-4 months if you are devoted and to speak it on a more basic level (i did). Immersion is a key factor to get better at it and really advance but if he did real lessons about 2-3 times per week he could get it. I think English is probably a harder one to learn than a latin based language. Anyway he should find a teacher that teaches in an immersion type style--they only speak to you and you do all of your work and questions in the language you are trying to learn. Part of the reason why verb lists and nouns lists don't work with learning (or aren't as memorable) is that they don't have a connection to what is going on in your brain. The best way to learn quickly is to tell your own stories in your own head and need to conduct your life in the new language. So if in Montreal or Quebec, suggest he go to the English speaking areas and do his day-to-day errands there once he has rudimentary english.

 

I think you need to show him some alternatives and hopefully he will take it down from being a top and urgent priority. If it's still important to him but not urgent and top priority, he will maybe reconsider how to accomplish his goal locally (which he absolutely can do!). Even if your daughter is a good teacher, maybe so far they've just approached it casually. I think when you are paying the teacher & committed to lessons etc and there is more structure, it works better. I forgot what they are called but there are those CD's too like emersion language learning ones (i didn't do those but heard they are good).

 

I learned one-on-one with a native speaker (in a small room!) and she made me tell her stories that were in my head, things going on in my life. She didn't stop me too much to correct pronunciation and grammar---at the beginning the idea is to get your ideas out. Just like a child learns or a foreigner in a country where they don't speak the language HAS to do to get by. I have since learned that letting people make mistakes but freely get their ideas across is a key to rapid learning and making sure it happens (researched back, not just my own opinion). I guess if he is deadset on going there is not much you can do about it. I do think it's risky because he can gain what he wants right where you are now & might have upheaval results (job, apt, you) to leave right now. Good luck

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Short answer: yes

[Gaeta]

I think you should be supportive of him wanting to better & expand himself because that's what gf/bf's do. I think you should say a bit of something from another direction (rather than "you will fail" or "it's a stupid idea"). Try something where it will be like I don't want us to be apart like that for that long & WE can find ways for you to learn it here/I'll help you find some ways to learn it here. (you're in Montreal right?)

I would never use hurtful language with him like you'll fail. I try to appeal to his common sense, I tell him it's not the best way to learn English, he needs the grammar and the basic first, learning to speak English from a bunch of guys on a construction site he's just gonna learn the phonics and not even the right ones.

 

I would never tell him I don't want him to go because we'll be apart for a couple of months. I would find it embarrassing playing that card at my age. I used to be married to a military man that was gone months at a time. He knows I am emotionally independent

 

You can learn another language in 2-4 months if you are devoted and to speak it on a more basic level (i did). Immersion is a key factor to get better at it and really advance but if he did real lessons about 2-3 times per week he could get it. I think English is probably a harder one to learn than a latin based language.

English is pretty easy to learn. In French we have 23 tenses and English has 12. We also have a gender for each object. The floor is a 'he' and a table is a 'she'.

 

Anyway he should find a teacher that teaches in an immersion type style--they only speak to you and you do all of your work and questions in the language you are trying to learn. Part of the reason why verb lists and nouns lists don't work with learning (or aren't as memorable) is that they don't have a connection to what is going on in your brain. The best way to learn quickly is to tell your own stories in your own head and need to conduct your life in the new language.

Those are great tips, thanks!

 

I think when you are paying the teacher & committed to lessons etc and there is more structure, it works better.

I agree 100% if he pays for it he'll be more devoted to learning.

 

We went 3 times on weekends to Ontario so he'd be surrounded by the English language and he could practice. When people address him he freezes and looks at me to take over. I slowly whisper to him the words in English I would like a diet coke please it comes outof his mouth I, me, aaawww, I coke, s'il-vous-plaît.

 

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[Gaeta]

Can he not fill forms for his residency in Toronto? Or will moving there actually set him back in terms of legal requirements for his PR?

If he is not working in Quebec yes it could set him back as he is using a provincial program that favors French speaking immigrants. He needs to prove to the Quebec government he studied and graduated in French (he did) and he is employed in French (he is). If he goes to Ontario to learn English for 2-3 months he'll need to wait to be employed again in Montreal to fill the form.

[Els]

If he is not working in Quebec yes it could set him back as he is using a provincial program that favors French speaking immigrants. He needs to prove to the Quebec government he studied and graduated in French (he did) and he is employed in French (he is). If he goes to Ontario to learn English for 2-3 months he'll need to wait to be employed again in Montreal to fill the form.

 

 

Yeah, this sounds like a legitimate concern. Have you brought it up with him? What was his response?

[Happy Lemming]

I don't know if this might help or not...

 

A few years ago, I was dating a woman and her mother was coming to town to visit. The mother only spoke Spanish (no English whatsoever). I didn't want my girlfriend to have to interpret every single word for me, so I purchased "Rosetta Stone" software and taught myself some basic Spanish. There were some words I didn't get (during the visit) and my girlfriend filled me, but I got the basic gist of the conversation. All in all, it went quite well.

 

Could the "Rosetta Stone" software be an option in this case?? I found it easy to use, I learned quickly, could use it alone and at my own pace.

 

Just a thought...

Edited July 3, 2018 by Happy Lemming

[Gaeta]

Yeah, this sounds like a legitimate concern. Have you brought it up with him? What was his response?

 

He feels he has enough time. Each step to his immigration process has been loaded with stress. You have to be ahead of time to make sure if anything is missing you have time to correct it before the dead-line.

 

In his permanent citizenship he wants to include his daughter (she's minor). To proceed he needed many important papers from the mother and the French government. He got all his papers to proceed, they're on his coffee table unopened!

 

Another aspect is he listens a lot to other immigrants and their opinions and it drives me nuts. He had his first post-diploma work permit rejected because he listened to an immigrant-friend instead of listening to me who has immigration department on speed dial and I know the procedure step by step.

 

Wow I did not realized I was THAT frustrated!

 

 

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[Gaeta]

Could the "Rosetta Stone" software be an option in this case?? I found it easy to use, I learned quickly, could use it alone and at my own pace.

 

Just a thought...

 

 

Thanks! I will look it up for sure!

[Versacehottie]

I would never use hurtful language with him like you'll fail. I try to appeal to his common sense, I tell him it's not the best way to learn English, he needs the grammar and the basic first, learning to speak English from a bunch of guys on a construction site he's just gonna learn the phonics and not even the right ones.

 

I would never tell him I don't want him to go because we'll be apart for a couple of months. I would find it embarrassing playing that card at my age. I used to be married to a military man that was gone months at a time. He knows I am emotionally independent

 

English is pretty easy to learn. In French we have 23 tenses and English has 12. We also have a gender for each object. The floor is a 'he' and a table is a 'she'.

 

Those are great tips, thanks!

 

I agree 100% if he pays for it he'll be more devoted to learning.

 

We went 3 times on weekends to Ontario so he'd be surrounded by the English language and he could practice. When people address him he freezes and looks at me to take over. I slowly whisper to him the words in English I would like a diet coke please it comes outof his mouth I, me, aaawww, I coke, s'il-vous-plaît.

 

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Of course I know you wouldn't say it to him like that Here's the thing, guys can be pretty stubborn and rebel like you are telling him no by raising your objections to his idea. Whereas if you change the approach, like i need you and want you here with me (which would be a concern too, right)? Then it might make him feel good to acquiesce and look at his goals from another direction (i.e. solving his language goal locally and adjusting the time frame). Really, you wouldn't want to tell him that you want him around? I don't think it's weak if it's the truth. Why wouldn't you really want him to go then? He may not perfectly succeed but i'll bet his language skills would improve by at least 50%. Sure it's a bit of a pipe dream and a bit of a silly approach of his but if your only objection is that he will fail, maybe consider the fact that he won't? I actually don't think he will outright fail and if there is nothing to lose by trying then why not let him go? Personally, I think it's a multilayered problem and if i were in your shoes, I could have half-hearted belief that he will have some success/improve but that the risk involved (to total progress in his life where he lives Quebec) and time away from your relationship would make it worth speaking up. And then I would do that from a place of truth & most appealing is that you want to spend time together not miss it.

 

Yes I agree if he has to take more of a physical labor job in Toronto because he doesn't have the english skills it won't really improve his english too much--also if he is doing construction I don't necessarily think it's a bad place to learn even if the grammar isn't correct--but more so because he will be able to get by without communicating or using english (physical labor job involving movement and activity, or even something like a cashier, you could get by without much english OR talking). Probably he will get the most from trying to live his day to day life in english wherever, i.e. home. Haha so don't fill in the blanks for him. Maybe that's something you can do together is do stuff in the english speaking areas or speak to waiters or cashiers in english where you live rather than default to french.

 

I guess you could try to talk some common sense into him but already sounds like his plan is a bit over the top, so i don't think he be trying to hear that And will put up resistance.

 

Good that english isn't hard to learn! That's a lot of tenses in french. The best thing I think about American English (and think it applies to Canadian English as well) is that culturally as nations of immigrants I think we are pretty accepting and lax about pronunciation and grammar--there's a lot of latitude to get your point across and people are more accepting if they understand what you mean--even if your english is broken--which helps you learn quicker because you are not afraid to make mistakes! This is what i've noticed from traveling all around the world. (and the research again proves that when people aren't afraid and DO make mistakes their progress with any type of learning is faster).

[Highndry]

It should be unconditional love and support, but not if it's to their detriment and that of the relationship as a whole. Just my humble opinion...

[JuneL]

Has your bf always wanted to learn English? Why did he move to Montreal? Do you think he might try to use Montreal as a transition to eventually get settled in an English-speaking place?

 

From what you wrote, his idea of spending a couple of months in Toronto doesn't sound nearly as crazy as your title has implied. Perhaps he'll be able to "jumpstart" his learning of English after these two months of real-life experience. Perhaps for him, all those grammar rules would make sense after he has gained a bit of "working knowledge".

[Versacehottie]

Thanks! I will look it up for sure!

 

Yes Rosetta Stone is the name of the program that i know of! I didn't use it but have heard great things like the poster who recommended it did too!!

[Els]

He feels he has enough time. Each step to his immigration process has been loaded with stress. You have to be ahead of time to make sure if anything is missing you have time to correct it before the dead-line.

 

In his permanent citizenship he wants to include his daughter (she's minor). To proceed he needed many important papers from the mother and the French government. He got all his papers to proceed, they're on his coffee table unopened!

 

Another aspect is he listens a lot to other immigrants and their opinions and it drives me nuts. He had his first post-diploma work permit rejected because he listened to an immigrant-friend instead of listening to me who has immigration department on speed dial and I know the procedure step by step.

 

Wow I did not realized I was THAT frustrated!

 

 

.

 

 

Hmm, sounds like a bigger issue than just a Toronto vacation. I can definitely understand your frustration - I'm also the kind of person who likes to plan and prepare things ahead of time, and who pays attention to details and documentation, and it drives me nuts when people don't. Not just the SO, but also friends, colleagues, etc. The best solution I've found to this is to remind and inform them ONCE, and then take a hands off approach. Let them sink or swim. I've pleasantly found that more often than not, they get things done, albeit not as early as I would've liked or entailing a couple of all nighters.... but still.

 

 

 

Unfortunately there are some things that you just can't do for other people, and this is one of them. He knows what's at stake - now it's up to him to sort it out.

[Gaeta]

Has your bf always wanted to learn English? Why did he move to Montreal? Do you think he might try to use Montreal as a transition to eventually get settled in an English-speaking place?

 

From what you wrote, his idea of spending a couple of months in Toronto doesn't sound nearly as crazy as your title has implied. Perhaps he'll be able to "jumpstart" his learning of English after these two months of real-life experience. Perhaps for him, all those grammar rules would make sense after he has gained a bit of "working knowledge".

 

 

His heart is really set on Montreal I have no doubt about it. He traveled here several times before making his final move.

 

 

 

Before moving here he spent 3 months in New York, you'd think he'd catch a word or 2 during that time but nothing. He says it's because it was an exploratory trip with other French so he never had to learn to survive.

[Lotsgoingon]

Does your bf have a pattern of foolish thinking and decision-making? I'm betting he does.

 

I had a close relative who would come up with cockamanie ideas like this ... and wow, do I feel your pain. Impossible dilemma for a friend noticing someone about to jump of a ledge with no net.

 

My relative told me (after the fact) that he had quit a job that he was starting to win city-wide acclaim for ... to pursue another job that was ten times harder.

 

He tells me this in the train station as I'm leaving town after visiting him. I freak inside ... I try to politely tell him to rethink this ... He waved me off.

 

He got fired repeatedly in the new field he entered. Anyway, this relative had a history of foolish thinking ... and so looking back, there was no talking him out of it ... because well ... he wasn't really a clear thinker ... Once he got a feeling in his mind (no matter how ridiculous) he had trouble thinking straight.

 

No, it's not your job to unconditionally support behavior that can only hurt your bf. He'll be quickly overwhelmed and distraught once he figures out he's getting nowhere learning English.

 

Now I'm gonna answer my own question from the start. This cannot be his first cockamanie decision ... someone who doesn't start with taking an English class at night ... seeing how that goes ... before relocating ... must have made other bad decisions.

 

You have probably talked him down from taking slightly less crazy leaps many times.

[Gaeta]

Does your bf have a pattern of foolish thinking and decision-making? I'm betting he does.

We have been dating 2,5 years and he's been someone trustworthy, reliable and down to earth so far. Before he moved to Canada he ran his own company for 25 years and he was only in 2 long term relationships in his entire life, he's a no-drama kind of man....of what I have known of him so far.

[mrs rubble]

If he's already spent 3 months in New York, where he had the opportunity to learn English, why would he suddenly be able to learn it in 2 months in Montreal?

How soon is he planning on going? Maybe you could start only communicating with him in English from now so he gets an idea of what it's going to be like....and whether it's possible for him.