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Was my comment that insensitive? Best way to reach out for damage control?


cereal_dater

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cereal_dater

Been hanging out with this girl for the last 6 months, friends mostly but open to the possibility of more in the future.

 

We do either free or cheap fun stuff which I usually pay because its a few dollars here or there, no big deal. She has offered to give me money or helped pay a few times. Definitely not "using me".

 

Spent last Sunday together and had a fun day. Stopped for dinner coming home and split the check. Somehow the situation made me feel cheap so I said something like "I pay 99% of the time blah blah" just to ease that cheap feeling. An impulsive comment that meant nothing. She gets emotional and says "that hurt, that's everything I'm afraid of" and explains how she has paid her share more often and that being an independent woman doesn't want to feel like she owes or depends on anyone anything.

 

She's quiet as we leave. In the car she's saying stuff like "just let me know how much I owe you for everything". I don't go crazy apologizing but explain what I meant, apologize if she was offended, and she owes me nothing. Smoothed things out somewhat. Claims she understands but still somewhat upset. Reaffirms she always makes herself available and makes excuses to see me because she really enjoys our time together. Texts when she gets home saying "Don't worry about it, I'm over it". I replied it was a fun day and she agreed.

 

Texted her Tuesday, a photo she wanted with a quick sentence like "here you go, enjoy". Haven't heard back from her.

 

Now that roughly a week has passed I want to reach out again. Trying to decide if I should call, or send a text inviting her out to something fun this week and end it with "btw I hope last Sunday didn't compromise our friendship" or similar. What's the best way forward in this situation?

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At some point, it seems that men often make women, even "mostly friend" ones feel obligated some way. I don't know why you said what you said, but it's hard to take it any other way than a complaint. Now, not saying you SHOULD be paying for 90%, but I don't know your and hers financial situations. It might be she can't afford to go out, period, I don't know. It might be you can't afford to be paying all the time but know that if you don't, she can't afford to do as much. It's good you're keeping it mostly to inexpensive things. The comment was awkward. She probably didn't see it as you feeling cheap and rationalizing it's okay to let her pay some. Probably thought you were making HER feel cheap.

 

So you did what you could to explain it and that's all you can do. Maybe you should just make an agreement that if you want to do something and ask her, you'll pay and if she wants to, maybe she'll pay OR split it at least and just make a plan. Good luck.

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Versacehottie
Been hanging out with this girl for the last 6 months, friends mostly but open to the possibility of more in the future.

 

We do either free or cheap fun stuff which I usually pay because its a few dollars here or there, no big deal. She has offered to give me money or helped pay a few times. Definitely not "using me".

 

Spent last Sunday together and had a fun day. Stopped for dinner coming home and split the check. Somehow the situation made me feel cheap so I said something like "I pay 99% of the time blah blah" just to ease that cheap feeling. An impulsive comment that meant nothing. She gets emotional and says "that hurt, that's everything I'm afraid of" and explains how she has paid her share more often and that being an independent woman doesn't want to feel like she owes or depends on anyone anything.<snip>

 

Honestly I'm a little confused by the comment (not that you haven't explained it well, i'm just not getting it for whatever my own reasons are) but I definitely understand the rest of the situation. Going to say that in some little way the fact that you pay most of the time and treat it somewhat like a dating thing is something she secretly holds onto--not because of the money reason--but because it signifies you caring for her in more than a friend way & draws her to you because it's protective and gentlemanly. I think the little offhand comment made her re-think that she has been misinterpreting things all along and maybe this "thing" with you will end up going nowhere. That's why she was clear to say all the good things about spending time with you AND offer to pay for past things so it would be clear to you that it wasn't about the money portion of it all.

 

I guess the real question for you is what do you want? Why the holdup to move things to the next level? Unfortunately, if you still aren't ready, this little incident may have put you at a crossroads--so my advice would be to get ready now if you at all possibly can!

 

1. Call

2. Invite her out for something fun this week

3. Don't use the word "friendship"---better to say sorry I upset you. Keep it (the apology) simple & sincere without having her question the nature of what you "are" to each other within the apology.

 

*note: 4. Step it up beyond friendship at the next outing. You are at crossroads because of the incident and if you do nothing, you will lose momentum. (i realize this sounds like a cheesy rom-com but yeah this is what you should do)

 

Good luck

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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Lotsgoingon

Question 1: Why are you paying most of the time if she is only a friend (I don't care how much "potential" there is)?

 

Is it possible you are using paying for her as part of your courting strategy? ... And your resentment about doing so finally slipped out?

 

It's OK to pay for a friend ... as long as we can afford to pay for a friend .. .and as long as we truly want to pay for a friend ... but not to win that friend over.

 

Worry less about apologizing and more about getting clear about why you are paying for her ... If you don't think she'll hang out with you without you paying, then that's not a good friend for you.

 

She apparently thought you could afford to pick up the tab ... and so when you made a big deal of it, she felt betrayed.

 

Oh and that "cheap feeling" you had ... investigate that. That's just a flat-out destructive feeling .. .You've been paying for 99 percent and the one time you don't you felt the need to specifically say you're not cheap? What's up with that?!

 

Bottom: some of your baggage about money and spending on others ... and fear of being cheap, etc ... that got in the way. But it was there all along. Now you have the opportunity and the incentive to clean it up. With yourself.

Edited by Lotsgoingon
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I think it's how you said it that's the problem. The delivery came off as a veiled complaint, even if you didn't want it to. It's probably something better left unsaid, but if you wanted to assuage your own guilt for not paying the whole bill, you could have said "Geez, for some reason I feel cheap right now because I didn't pay for you, too" and left it at that.

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cereal_dater

 

Why the holdup to move things to the next level? Unfortunately, if you still aren't ready, this little incident may have put you at a crossroads--so my advice would be to get ready now if you at all possibly can!

 

*note: 4. Step it up beyond friendship at the next outing. You are at crossroads because of the incident and if you do nothing, you will lose momentum. (i realize this sounds like a cheesy rom-com but yeah this is what you should do)

 

 

Actually I've been the one who wanted "more" but she has been hesitant, mostly saying she wants to start as friends to build trust before investing emotionally. Claims she's been alone so long it's hard to let someone in. She's been back and forth about "giving things a chance" over the months. The more I push talks about "us" the more it pushes her toward just friends. Relax the talks and just show her a good time, the more she opens up to the idea.

 

Question 1: Why are you paying most of the time if she is only a friend (I don't care how much "potential" there is)?

 

We started in a dating context, then she pushed "friends first to build trust and comfort" but kept showing signs of interest. I buy little stuff like ice cream here, coffee there. Nothing major. We went to dinner two weeks ago and I had her throw $20 because I ordered cheap and she ran the bill way up with expensive stuff. It was kind of the same situation Sunday. I didn't want to be taken advantage of but still felt "cheap" for making her pay. She does offer to help pay or give me cash on occasion.

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ExpatInItaly

I don't think the comment about you paying is the biggest issue here.

 

The bigger problem seems to be that she can't make up her mind about whether she wants to date you or not. This has been going for 6 months? That's plenty of time for someone to know if they want more.

 

Building up slowly to a relationship is one thing. But by your description, she comes close and then bolts at any mention of dating. My guess is that she might be the type to look for reasons to bail, and this comment happened to be the latest opportunity. That isn't someone who is seriously interested or available to be in a relationship.

 

Aren't you getting tired of this?

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cereal_dater

The bigger problem seems to be that she can't make up her mind about whether she wants to date you or not. This has been going for 6 months? That's plenty of time for someone to know if they want more.

 

Building up slowly to a relationship is one thing. But by your description, she comes close and then bolts at any mention of dating. My guess is that she might be the type to look for reasons to bail, and this comment happened to be the latest opportunity. That isn't someone who is seriously interested or available to be in a relationship.

 

Aren't you getting tired of this?

 

Yes -- and your comment is basically spot on. She has no problem voicing how much she enjoys our time together, several times has said she is willing to give things a chance, not keep me at arms length and open up to me, but always finds a reason to sweep the rug out or find excuses why it might not work (food tastes, culture, personal reasons) if things start feeling serious. Rinse and repeat about 3x. She's been honest that doing a relationship, love and intimacy would be hard for her after being alone so long.

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That *girl*, because I don't view her as a woman, is giving you a lot of baloney. She is just NOT that into you. She enjoys the attention and company but has 0 intention of escalating this a notch. None what so ever. You have wasted 6 months and it's enough. I don't know ANY man in his right mind that would invest one more minute into this.

 

 

 

Her excuse that she has been out of a relationship for so long, how long? I cannot believe you fall for that. She is giving you little crumbs here and there, no! not even crumbs it's practically dust! No sex, no touching, no kissing and no relationship. Why are you putting yourself through this? Are you both alone on an island that you cannot move on?

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Versacehottie

ok, thanks for the additional context. For the money part, then I would agree with whoever posted above that don't pay if you are going to have resentment about it, which it does sound like you do a bit, saying she ran up the bill by ordering expensive stuff while you ate cheap stuff. If you pay, think of it like a gift and you are never going to see any of the money back or affection or reciprocation. Don't keep score. To talk about money but still grudgingly pay negates the gentlemanly act--so don't do it.

 

That said, i can completely understand why you would be miffed, she is keeping you at arms length, making you jump through hoops, having you act like a bf but won't give you an answer about you guys. 6 months seems like long enough to know. You said she draws closer when you don't push forward so I think you should give her the friend treatment AND pull away AND use the word friend/friendship if you apologize (different than what I'd advised before). She can't have it both ways. Like a de facto bf, without her doing any of the gf stuff--well except pouting when things don't go her way. I don't think you need to keep trying to "prove" yourself. If you go for meals, just split the check evenly (though if she is really ordering excessively she should pitch in more but I wouldn't demand that--just if it happens a few times without her ante'ing up then don't go out with her to meals). Honestly though, i think you should pull back so she can see what it is like to NOT spend time with you. In a way, you need to force her hand. Good luck

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ExpatInItaly

I think it's time for you to concede that this isn't working anymore, OP.

 

I would forget about her being offended about your comment, wish her well, and move on.

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Been hanging out with this girl for the last 6 months, friends mostly but open to the possibility of more in the future.

 

We do either free or cheap fun stuff which I usually pay because its a few dollars here or there, no big deal. She has offered to give me money or helped pay a few times. Definitely not "using me".

 

I said something like "I pay 99% of the time blah blah" just to ease that cheap feeling.

 

I don't go crazy apologizing but explain what I meant, apologize if she was offended, and she owes me nothing. Smoothed things out somewhat.

 

Now that roughly a week has passed I want to reach out again. Trying to decide if I should call, or send a text inviting her out to something fun this week and end it with "btw I hope last Sunday didn't compromise our friendship" or similar. What's the best way forward in this situation?

 

I don't know. That was a really ham-fisted, insensitive and judgmental thing to say, seeing that she does pay/offer to pay.

 

Then apologizing that she was offended isn't the same as apologizing for hurting her feelings with an insensitive remark. You just man-splained her reaction to your actions; you didn't apologize for your actions.

 

She's probably taking this time to rethink the wisdom in continuing on with you, which is wise on her part.

 

This bell can't be unrung. You made a judgment on her that had nothing to do with her and she's not going to go walk this off on your timetable or to your satisfaction.

 

Sounds like you need to get a grip on your impulses because they land you in situations you feel you don't want to be in. Not everything translates well from that killer joke you conjured in your imagination.

Edited by kendahke
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Lotsgoingon

My view is that the paying is a huge issue.

 

Paying for myself--and myself only--is a key action that helps me know I'm not dating someone ...

 

Now, the relationship changes ... I'd be willing to pay some up front ... But frankly, I typically date people who make as much as i do ... or as little as i do ... so we end up splitting things 50-50 ... whether a particular meal ... or by going back and forth.

 

So the pay is important for staying in your own lane ... you don't wanna court someone wishy-washy by paying ... unless she's broke ... and that's discussed up front.

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I said something like "I pay 99% of the time blah blah" just to ease that cheap feeling. An impulsive comment that meant nothing.

 

 

It wasn't an impulsive comment that meant nothing. It's clear that your resentment towards paying most of the time was building and it finally pissed you off enough to say something.

 

 

Be honest with yourself first, and then be honest with her.

 

 

Or have a bunch of short lasting crash and burn relationships because you don't know how to communicate properly.

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Versacehottie
It wasn't an impulsive comment that meant nothing. It's clear that your resentment towards paying most of the time was building and it finally pissed you off enough to say something.

 

 

Be honest with yourself first, and then be honest with her.

 

 

Or have a bunch of short lasting crash and burn relationships because you don't know how to communicate properly.

 

I agree with the bolded. Also saying I pay 99% of the time to help yourself not feel cheap....should make you feel....cheap. Generosity is not how much or what percentage you pay alone or even it all--it's whether you are keeping score and feel "owe". OP is "investing"; he got pissed and resentful because his investment isn't paying off; he's becoming unsure that it will; and the girl he cares about making a good impression on/investment on is not showing her gratitude enough nor moving toward recognizing and reacting with clarity on his investment. I.e perhaps the resentment isn't unjustified but the comment wasn't going to solve anything, actually just complicated it more.

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mortensorchid

This may sound old fashioned nowadays, but as I lived in the days before texting I can't believe how we are now relying so much on this communication method for so many things (work related or personal). But there's no escaping it, so there's no point in complaining. But I digress... If you want a definitive answer, CALL HER and talk about it. Whatever it is good or bad. Good communication is key to everything in life, people. So do it the right way or not at all.

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This is how I see it: OF COURSE she feels bad, this whole situation is uneven---and deep down this girl knows it and OP's comment triggered that guilt that was there all along.

 

I mean c'mon, she has been letting OP take her out on date for 6 months while she has given him what....the pleasure of her company? :confused: She has made OP her "sexless boyfriend"!

 

If anyone says that I am implying that he pays for dates means she should have been "putting out" , it isn't that at all. Anyone whom I have dated (and slept w on the regular) for an extended period of time reciprocated--I pay this time she paid the last time she will have me over for dinner the next time I will bring wine/dessert/a side-dish. I think this is pretty common. In a healthy adult relationship, Nobody Rides For Free.

 

So OP, don't beat yourself up for saying what you did, instead you should be asking yourself why you didn't speak up sooner. What you REALLY should do is tell this woman OP (upfront no passive digs) that this situation is uneven and she needs to be doing more to chip in. The funny thing is, the more someone puts effort towards you, the more attached they become towards you.

Edited by Imajerk17
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You need to make a plan because what you can't do is charge her at the last minute. She might need that $20 for her bills. You can't do that at the last minute. But before you go into a more expensive place, say, "Now, we can go here if you want, but we'd have to split the bill; or if you'd rather, we can just go to ____ and I'll pay."

 

She's not interested in you. So if that's the only reason you're paying, then she is RIGHT to be mad that you made her feel obligated some way, by accident or not. She's really vocalized how she's clearly not ready for romantic. The fact she embellishes with things about giving a chance to get to know, etc. really just sounds like blather. The thing about hard to be romantic after so long -- totally ludicrous! She's just making excuse after excuse, and I can't tell you whether it's to keep you paying for her meals or because she's just that messed up and neurotic, but I can tell you either one isn't someone I'd want to get involved with because neither is a bargain.

 

And by the way, there are some women out there, rare though they are, who play men for a meal. Now, since most of your stuff has been inexpensive, I tend to think that's not what she's doing. I think she'd be acting the diva and pressing for lobster probably. But that leave neurotic and unable to close a deal, doesn't it?

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cereal_dater

You guys might be onto something that I harbor a little resentment. Yeah it was only little things I paid for but I can only remember her saying thank you maybe twice.

 

She's traditional. Early on she talked about how her brothers would take her out and buy her expensive dinners, telling her that's what she deserves and only deserves the best. How her dad provides for her mom and makes sure she's always taken care of. Said she wants space and independence but still wants that treatment. After hearing that I kind of felt obligated to pay because I was worried and knew she'd think less if I didn't. That was before she pushed "friends first to build trust and comfort".

 

When this came up Sunday she did state that since we're just hanging out as friends that we should be spilling the bill anyways.

 

One of the last things she said to me while saying goodbye is "I don't hang out with other guys like I hang out with you" and explains the only other men in her life are necessary for business and kept professional. Just for perspective this girl stated back on our the 3rd date that she's still a virgin (late 20's) and was thinking about artificial insemination because she was so convinced she'd always be alone.

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She's traditional.

 

 

Ah, she's "traditional". That brought back a fine memory from when I was dating, some 10 years ago. Cute redhead, met her on Match, we clicked, we went out a half a dozen times over a 2 week period.

 

 

I paid each time. Until the last time. I said "Why do you never offer to pay?". She said "I'm an old fashioned girl".

 

 

I knew as soon as the words came out of her mouth I'd never call her again.

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She's traditional.

We're in 2018

 

Early on she talked about how her brothers would take her out and buy her expensive dinners, telling her that's what she deserves and only deserves the best.
Talk about *weird*. Almost sounds like something out of a cult. They guarded her virginity too? (don't answer)

 

How her dad provides for her mom and makes sure she's always taken care of.
Different generation.

 

Said she wants space and independence but still wants that treatment.
Sounds like she's looking for a sugar daddy.
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So this is new info about how she enjoyed being spoiled by her father and brothers. So to her, that is normal in platonic relationships. Platonic relationships. You are now her brother. I enjoyed my dad giving me cars to drive too, but I don't expect any guy I date to do it -- and certainly not one who is just a friend.

 

She's not seeing other guys because other guys won't go out with a woman more than about 3 times and pay for everything and stick around once they find out she has a problem with romance. And I take it back earlier saying I didn't think she was a diva since you mostly do cheap things. She is. She grew up that way. She's a diva even on cheap things, which I supposed is a blessing.

Edited by preraph
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cereal_dater
So this is new info about how she enjoyed being spoiled by her father and brothers. So to her, that is normal in platonic relationships. Platonic relationships. You are now her brother. I enjoyed my dad giving me cars to drive too, but I don't expect any guy I date to do it -- and certainly not one who is just a friend.

 

She's not seeing other guys because other guys won't go out with a woman more than about 3 times and pay for everything and stick around once they find out she has a problem with romance. And I take it back earlier saying I didn't think she was a diva since you mostly do cheap things. She is. She grew up that way. She's a diva even on cheap things, which I supposed is a blessing.

 

It was just her brothers. Her father was very strict and never showed her much appreciation, just set ultra high standards and acted like that was expected.

 

My best friend met her a few weeks ago. He thinks the situation is quite interesting. His opinion was that she pretends to be very humble but isn't, considers herself on a pedestal. Has internal conflict because she's always try to project how happy she is and has zero confidence.

 

Also, a month ago she said "You're everything I'm looking for in a guy and it scares me". A few days later she denied saying it?! Two weeks ago she joked with a server saying "he doesn't like seafood, he's not boyfriend material". She makes these bold statements fairly often that seem to indicate she's thinking about me more than just a friend. This is what keeps me guessing.

Edited by cereal_dater
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OP: What are her traits that have attracted you to her? It sounds like she sees you as an orbiter.

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That *girl*, because I don't view her as a woman, is giving you a lot of baloney. She is just NOT that into you. She enjoys the attention and company but has 0 intention of escalating this a notch. None what so ever. You have wasted 6 months and it's enough. I don't know ANY man in his right mind that would invest one more minute into this.

 

 

 

Her excuse that she has been out of a relationship for so long, how long? I cannot believe you fall for that. She is giving you little crumbs here and there, no! not even crumbs it's practically dust! No sex, no touching, no kissing and no relationship. Why are you putting yourself through this? Are you both alone on an island that you cannot move on?

 

I agree so much with the above comment. This girl is giving you a bunch of BS. It's entirely possible to date someone exclusively, share kisses and intimacy and still take things slow. Dating doesn't mean you have to rush to marriage or to the bedroom so it makes no sense that she started out dating you and then back peddled to friends only just because she's "been alone for so long". I think she took a shot a dating you, decided she wasn't into you that way so put you in a friend box. She really likes you as a friend so to keep you as a friend she gives you false hope that this could turn into more.

 

As for the comment you made about paying 99% of the time I agree that there was no other way to take that other than to assume that you were trying to make some sort of point in some sort of passive aggressive way and if you were I wouldn't blame you for your feelings. However I don't think you should be hanging around, paying for her, hoping it will be more. She's had 6 months to get to know you and if that's not good enough then you need to move on anyways. Tell her she knows you well enough to know if she wants to date you or not by now and so you're cutting this off and she can give you a call if she's ready for a proper dating relationship.

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