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do young guys need to be "trained"?


confused_gf

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confused_gf

I'm 26 and I once had a girlfriend tell me that all guys need to be "trained" on how to treat their girlfriends. My first real boyfriend was at 19 and I did a lot of "training" (yep, even on things like personal hygiene). Thing is, after investing all the effort, I saw that even though he was nice and exceedingly intelligent (two traits I value highly) he was still largely clueless about a woman's needs in a relationship. Had to call it quits.

 

Getting to know most guys in my age bracket seems like shopping for a new puppy. The puppy is cute, its sweet, but it will kind of push its boundaries and pee all over your stuff before it comes around to behaving. I can think of a many times were I've been seeing a guy and he seems to be everything: polite, mature, funny, intelligent, good looking. The chemistry is there. This is sort of like "I'm playing with the puppy at the store wondering if I should buy it" phase. Well, once I almost get settled on the idea - the pup starts acting up. I'm not sure if this is a young guy thing? Like "how much will she put up with?" or if it is just pure immaturity/insecurity on their part.

 

Inevitably, I get fed up and ditch the dude. Dude comes back to me with his "tail between his legs" so to speak and it all feels like a big game of some kind. Like "does she reallllllllly love me even when I'm a complete jerk/hopeless moron?" I'm like yeah you know, I would really love to find a guy who just acts somewhat normal for awhile so I can at least get to know the real him as a person before investing more time and emotional energy this way. I know he won't be able to read my mind all the time, but just somebody who uses common sense and doesn't needlessly "test me" by pushing my buttons or gauging my reactions to foolish, dramatic, or insensitive behavior. Is it a hazing or something?

 

I should also mention I'm a pretty sensitive girl. I can find some of the typical games I've encountered to be exceptionally draining for me. Sure, it stirs up my emotions...but not in the way I would like. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe those are just the hoops you have to go through? I also had an older woman tell me that every man is an a-hole, I just have to choose one I can deal with.

 

I realize I've had some pretty good catches for potential boyfriends (superficially at least), but I'm in the habit of cutting guys off as soon as this behavior comes to a head, which feels like always now. It's exhausting. I feel like, should I write a rule book for next time? Or will Mr. Right just act right for the most part?

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Everybody requires "training." Young people learn basic manners and skills growing up, but adult relationships, needs, wants, what is acceptable or not, requires further "training." This is both men and women. I've been talking to a coworker a lot these days about our relationships. She's early 50's, he's also in his 50's, and they squabbled recently over "stuff," (her BF was a major a**, IMO), and he complained about her emotions and reactions because he doesn't want drama, and she said to him, "I'm reacting to YOU." He created the drama he doesn't want. We all have to learn, compromise, and grow, and we all have to decide if what this other person wants is something you can give. Are you compatible?

 

I get what you're saying, but if you ever want something long-term, you have to accept flaws. You have to pick your battles. What is your hill to die on? What are the most important issues for you, and what are the most important issues for him? Are you willing to compromise, bend, and change for him? Do you have flaws you can improve on and change? Is there something super important for him that you don't care that much about, so even though you think it's stupid, you comply? Does he do the same for you?

 

You sound exceptionally picky, and that is going to be the death of any relationship you try to have. You can't expect any man to fit some perfect box or follow some ticker-tape set of instructions. He is a human being, and humans have flaws.

 

What exactly are these guys doing that you cut bait and end relationships so fast? Are you somehow attracting the most dense and unrefined cavemen on the planet?

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As the saying goes, "we teach people how to treat us". We do that through what we accept, correct, or ignore.

 

I think young women have to learn there is a fine line between manipulating, controlling, or emasculating a man and teaching him those fundamental issues that lead to a successful relationship with you. Fundamental issues like trust, respect, and being responsible and considerate. How any abuse is unacceptable - verbal, physical, mental, or self-abuse. And so forth.

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confused gf,

 

do young guys need to be "trained"?

 

Some do, some don't :)

 

If you want to see how a guy will treat you in the long term, see how he interacts with his mother.

 

The first time I went to my ex-husband's house he walked in, grunted "hello", went into a cupboard and helped himself to a packet of his dad's cigarettes then slumped in a chair and put the TV on.

His mother bought him a cup of coffee and then sat down and chatted to me.

 

I actually married this guy so who was the fool? :o

 

My present husband had his elderly mother living with him after his dad died. He did the cooking washing and ironing, took her out and about etc.

 

Lesson learned. :)

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Yep as usual exactly the same as for women, some do some don't.

Hate training ,l like a girl that just has it, all just naturally.

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Hi OP,

What are some of the behaviours that you speak of? What boundaries were pushed and what type of thing has been the breaking point? What was the communication like in those relationships?

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thefooloftheyear

I'm ok with the sit and stay.....Rolling over and fetch is a challenge, though...

 

TFY

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confused_gf
What exactly are these guys doing that you cut bait and end relationships so fast? Are you somehow attracting the most dense and unrefined cavemen on the planet?

 

Trying to think.

 

I've had a lot of problems in the past with guys chatting up girls in front of me, to the degree that I feel totally invisible. Checking out girls in front of me (while on a date!). Telling me about other lovers you have (models! of course) to show me how much of a hotshot you are. Being stingy to a fault. Push and pull behaviors that are just confusing (today lets share our feelings and make out, tomorrow lets just be "friends" so I can do as I please, wait where did you go?). Oh yeah, I had one guy tell me our relationship was "just about sex..." when it clearly wasn't, then start crying and asking me to stay and talk when I went to leave because I was so insulted. Oh yeah, that guy who told me he would never settle down yet sent me drunk crybaby "I miss you" rants at odd hours of the night after I got fed up with the act.

 

Trying to curb my enthusiasm for the relationship, but not wanting me to exit the stage totally. I'm like....uh....not really that fun for me. I actually consider myself pretty laid back, I guess I just want to be treated with respect. If you want me, great. If you don't, break it to me gently. I hate this front they put up that they are just too incredible to settle for lil ol me (educated, nice, capable, attractive), but please don't leave!

 

I wish I could find a guy who is confident, yet down to earth, and knows a good thing when he has it. It would also be nice to just be genuinely excited to be with someone and have that reciprocated openly and honestly. No BS like this ^ But I encounter it so much, I'm starting to think...should I get used to this?

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confused_gf
OP, do you mind when guys "train you" how to treat them?

 

I don't mind if a guy shows me how he wants to be treated. It would be a level up from what I'm used to at this point.

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I'm ok with the sit and stay.....Rolling over and fetch is a challenge, though...

 

TFY

 

Just wait until she takes you duck hunting ... just sayin' ..

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confused;

 

But I encounter it so much, I'm starting to think...should I get used to this?

 

No, no, and NO again !

 

Nip bad behaviour in the bud as soon as it starts.

 

If they start chatting up other girls in front of you and make you feel invisible. Walk off - yes, walk off and go home. and turn off your mobile/cell-phone until the next day. When they call to ask what happened, tell them you were really enjoying the date but when they started ignoring you, you were offended so you went home.

Then see if they apologise or not....

 

If they start talking about other lovers, you tell them straight " I don't want to hear about your past". If they persist, you walk.

 

Actions speak louder than words here.

 

You also need to learn how to block and delete these guys from your phone as well, so they can't pester you.

 

HTH x

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To the OP: There are all kinds of guys out there. I left home at 18 and have not needed motherly supervision since. It's you who picks your boyfriends. .

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Michelle ma Belle

I feel your pain OP.

 

I think this is deeper than just 'teaching' a boyfriend to make better fashion choices or encourage him to elevate his hygiene. Those things are indeed easily 'trainable' since most men tend to be clueless about the small things sometimes. And it goes both ways too.

 

MidKnightDreams hit the nail on the head with the quote by Dr. Phil himself;

 

"You teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop and what you reinforce"

 

This has more to do with teaching someone how to treat YOU as a woman, as a human being. It's about respect and boundaries. It's a valuable lesson I learned very early on and it's been a game changer for me.

 

Don't settle for anything less. Yes, dating and weeding through 'adorable puppies' is indeed exhausting which is why you need to remain steadfast in what it is you want and need in order to elevate a man to your level rather than drop to his.

 

And when he's the right man, he'll rise to the challenge and then some. Trust me.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Michelle ma Belle
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GunslingerRoland

I think there is a lot of different ways to look at this. When my wife and I started dating I had very little dating experience, so while I knew some things about how to treat a woman there were other things where I was clueless and she did have to train me a bit, for sure.

 

You'd hope that most people would have things like general manners down by the time they are an adult, but you have to walk around in society for about 3 1/2 minutes to realize that isn't the case.

 

Then there is household stuff, anyone man or woman who has only lived with mom and dad for their whole life and goes to living with a partner will probably need a degree of training as well. Man or woman.

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Don't take on "projects". If they aren't fully "constructed", walk away. Training a young guy requires a lot of wee wee pads . . . and you don't want to be their chew toy either.

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thefooloftheyear

I've seen the trained "yes, dear" types....Good God....how pathetic...:rolleyes:

 

These idiots look to their gf's/wives for anything they do or say...They are completely dominated...It's ridiculous...

 

No self respecting man would submit to that....Be authentic, be who you are..If they don't like it, then tough crap..Now, I am not saying that gives a guy a right to trample anything she says or wants him to do, just that, as a person, you need to be your own man...

 

I'd say the same for women...Come how you are...If you don't fit the ideal, then there is room for capitulation, but id never want a totally submissive woman that just does whatever I want...I like some pushback some moxie, some sass.....its healthy..

 

;)

 

TFY

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"You teach people how to treat you by what you allow, what you stop and what you reinforce"

 

This has more to do with teaching someone how to treat YOU as a woman, as a human being. It's about

 

That part is more of a negotiation to me. It's not the same for every relationship, and it may have less to do with understanding or a set of beliefs, but rather what patterns you agree upon within a relationship.

 

For example,. I was in a relationship with a vegetarian, and we both had different views on the topic. We ate vegetarian at home in order to avoid waste. On the other hand I would eat meat otherwise. This pattern fell apart as soon as the relationship ended.

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GorillaTheater

I get what you're saying TFY, but based on what I see on LS at least, there's a good number of young men and women who need to be "trained" by someone, anyone, about respecting others and respecting themselves. Between the neediness, the manipulation, the meanness, and flat-out obliviousness, I sometimes think I'd do okay if I ran a school for this sort of thing.

 

 

I'd wear a DI's hat and yell a lot.

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I'm ok with the sit and stay.....Rolling over and fetch is a challenge, though...

 

TFY

 

But if you roll over you get your tummy rubbed :D

 

I think in every new relationship, we "train" each other a bit. Because we are unique individuals with our own nuances, and we have to "learn" each other.

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Gorilla, you are so right. These boards are full of OPs who are "incomplete" people at best or dating them. The most disturbing are the ones who are not so young . . .

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If you have to discuss proper hygiene that isn't because they are a guy or that they are young....they have a lazy/I don't care personality or there is underlying mental illness or even alcohol/drug issue. First impressions count....if they don't have their act together you don't "fix" or "train" them. Who's being clueless now?

 

As for putting on a show for you....it takes experience to pick up on and sense a slim-ball/jerk.....your picker is off. Yes there is a lot of them out there, and this is why we go out on dates/have relationships before picking them for a life partner. It's how it's done.

 

I will give you credit for ditching them at the first sign of trouble....most people don't and come here posting thousand of threads of the same old crap.

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When people initially meet one another, they are meeting each other's representatives, not who they actually are. They put their best foot forward and are on their best behavior. Between 4 weeks to 4 months, after you begin to get to know who each other actually is, is when the representatives are dismissed and the "real you" comes to the fore---and this is when most relationships break up. You are finding out who they actually are, not who their representatives are and this aspect takes weeks/months to flesh out. It doesn't happen overnight unless that person has something wrong with them.

 

The issue of compatibility comes into play at this point. You either are able to tolerate when they "pee all over the place", overlook their quirkiness, find out how well you two can resolve conflict, or you can't and it fizzles. Also, you find out how badly they really want to be a part of your life--if it's enough, warts and all, for them to stick around and build with another imperfect mortal. Everybody has their preferences and everybody is entitled to their preferences for whom they want to be with. That is a plain fact of life I wished more people would understand and quit living in a fantasy that the person they are with is a carbon copy of their own character.

 

I do believe that we each have to teach a new person in our lives what we like, when we like it, how we like it and why we like it, so on some level it is a bit like "training". How amenable that person is to wanting to learn depends upon which is more important: building comity or their ego.

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It's not a gender thing. It's not even a dating thing. It's just about maintaining/enforcing good boundaries.

 

It's very easy to frame yourself as "a relaxed person", whilst allowing people to play you up. Tolerating it, until your pride has enough, and you dump them.

 

Notice that when you enforce the boundary, these guys change? But by that point, your pride is hurt, and you can't go backwards. I had the same thing with women throughout my teens and early 20's.

 

Which naturally leads to thoughts such as "why do people not appreciate what they have whilst they have it?" or "why is it that you have to crack the whip to get decency?".

 

I think it's human nature that when you give people an inch, they take a mile. I think we are all encroaching on each others boundaries merely by existing, and those that willingly move theirs back to accommodate others will be having their boundaries set by those same people.

 

Nip it in the bud in future. By showing a preference for dumping all of these men, you are actually showing immature boundaries imo. Allowing things to get to a certain intolerable level, before just burning down the entire thing to start the exact same process with someone else.

 

There is one consistent in this, and that's you. Work on your boundaries, and work on refining how your enforce them. Don't expect people to just give you what you think you deserve based on altruism, love, and rainbows.

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