Girl I'm seeing was physically abused - what do I need to know?

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

The girl I'm seeing recently informed me that she was physically abused by her father when she was younger. She didn't specify if it was physical or sexual in nature (or both), but obviously this is something I have to be cognizant of when we are together. I don't know if anyone on here can speak from experience, but what can I expect from her when it comes to affection, etc.? She has said that abuse has made her very timid with intimacy, and that she often feels "suffocated" by men, even when it's someone she likes.

 

All I basically know is that childhood trauma of any sort never disappears and is almost always carried forward into adult life. Can you all offer me some insight on how I should act, or what I can do to make her comfortable with me? Aside from the physical abuse, she has been deceived by a lot of guys, so obviously she is not a very trusting person. I know that earning her trust will come in time, but in the interim, I want to make her comfortable with me given what she went through with her father.

 

As always, your input is greatly appreciated.

 

P.S. As an aside, I noticed that she had Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus on her coffee table when I was at her place this weekend - the chapter she was on was about learning to trust men following a traumatic event in your life. It seems like this is something that clearly bothers her.

[CurlyIam]

She is obviously trying to get over this traumatic event. Of course you should be concerned, she needs more attention and patience, I guess.

 

I've never been through such a horible thing, but this is what I think. It did happen to her, it was real and she has the right to feel angry, upset, untrusty of men. but she is much more than that. She's much more than an abused person. She's kind, and attractive and warm and funny...

 

Make her focus on the good things she is, don't let her victimise herself. It's a vicious cercle, once she's in it, it's very hard to get over that. Talk to her about the past, listen to her when she feels like opening up, but make her realise and feel that she's a grown woman now, a person who can defend herself and who can chose the way she lives her life - in the past, fighting some doemons over which she has little power, or in the present, with its' endless possiblities.

 

 

 

Again, maybe I'm off hand. But this is how I feel this issue should be handled. LEt her open up, let her talk, let her heal, but make her focus on the present, on when she is or can become. Everybody seeks happiness. They only have to decide to make it happen now, in this life , today .

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

Thanks for the reply, Curly. She's a very smart girl and an excellent communicator, so thankfully we have been able to talk through her concerns. She has told me what she is comfortable with and what bothers her, and I'm going to do everything I can to help her through this. While she claims to be "over" the events of her past, her words and actions tell a different story. For example, while she likes my affection, there are times when she shies away or is just uncomfortable altogether. I have decided to cut way back on this and let her make the first moves from now - like if we are watching movies on the couch, I'll let her put her arm around me if she feels like it. That is going to be something new for me, because I've always been the first move type.

 

I've been working hard to make her focus on all the good things she has in her life, for which there are many. While I don't think she is necessarily victimizing herself, she is clearly very hesitant with men and finds it hard to trust anyone. I expect that it will take a significant amount of time to earn her trust and respect, and I want to handle this right. Those who know me on here will tell you that I am VERY open with my emotions/feelings, but perhaps it would be wise if I kept things light and casual right now while she works through this difficult time.

 

She has apologized that other guys have made this a bit of an uphill battle for me when it comes to trust, and I responded that is nothing to be sorry about. I don't care if it takes 5 months or 5 years - I want to show her that I'm not like all those other guys who were basically trying to use her. I've just never been with someone with such profound insecurities, and it's been quite an adjustment for me trying to understand how she feels. Ultimately, though, we should be alright as long as we continue to talk openly about these things.

[Mz. Pixie]

Hi there-

 

I applaud you! Alot of men in this situation would cut their losses and run the other direction- believe me, I've had that happen to me in the past.

 

I've been in your gf's shoes. Is she attending counseling or has she in the past? I would suggest that first and foremost. You said that this was her father? Is he still alive or in her life? That would make it twice as hard if the answer to those last two questions are yes.

 

I could write a book about what she's probably feeling but Curly had alot of good advice.

 

The main thing to remember is is that everyone see's life through their filter. Your filter is made up of all your life's experiences. Everyone's filter is different. Your gf sees things through her filter- and it's not the same as how you see things-based on the abuse she has suffered. Patience and caring is what will get her through this. If she wants to talk- let her, if not, then just be there for her. It's a good idea to let her pursue the physical end of your relationship as well.

 

It is true that this will shape her life for years to come, but it doesn't define who she is completely. Most likely she's extremely strong but doesn't quite know it yet. She also sounds like she's worth whatever effort you may put into this!

 

PM me if you think of any questions!

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

Thanks for the post. Why would a lot of men run from a situation like this? That doesn't make much sense to me. I'm sorry that's happened to you in the past, but I'm sure it made you realize that those weren't the men for you. People who care will always stand by your side and will never run away from your problems.

 

To my knowledge, she has never attended counseling. Like I mentioned, she is very religious, so she has forgiven her father for what he did and actually maintains a pretty good relationship with him right now. She is no longer afraid of him and sees what he did as a mistake he made in the past. She always tries to find the good in people (except in the rarest of circumstances), which I find incredibly noble. So while she's not really fearful of her father, it seems many insecurities have been transposed to other men, which I can certainly understand.

 

You make a great point about the filter. And since I have never experienced what she went through, I will never be able to fully see things from her point of view. What I can do, however, is be patient and understanding and always willing to talk to her about things when she feels the need to. And I'm definitely going to let her pursue the physical part of the relationship for awhile. That will be good practice for me, anyway, because I am WAY too affectionate and probably make girls uncomfortable with my constant cuddling, etc.

 

She is also not used to guys like me. For example, when guys have taken her out to dinner in the past, they have always expected something sexual in return. She was floored when I took her to dinner and a movie on our first date and just gave her a hug at the end of the night. She is also caught off guard by the little things, such as me holding the door for her or offering to carry things, etc. Clearly she must have dated a lot of guys who didn't make manners or chivalry a priority.

 

And yes, this girl is definitely worth it. She is sweet, smart, funny, and has impeccable morals/values, and I would be the luckiest guy in the world to be with her (officially) someday.

[gd1039]

Woah dude! I'm assuming this is the girl from your recent posts that said she just wanted to be friends. If so, congratulations for turning things around (somewhat)! Looks like things are looking up for both of us.

 

When the dust settles she will see what a great guy you are, if she doesn't see it already.

[Mz. Pixie]

I can somewhat relate to what you're saying about her forgiving. That's very hard though. I'm a Christian too, and this was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I forgave my mother for the things she did to me growing up- but I haven't forgiven my stepfather yet. You can forgive, but you still don't forget.

 

I disclosed my abuse to a very good guy friend growing up. Little did I know he would confront my folks, who then convinced him I was making it up for attention. Alot of guys wouldn't want to have to deal with the patience it takes to be in a relationship with someone like this- because it does affect you.

 

When my BF first told me that he loved me. I said, wait, how can you? You don't know everything about me yet. You need to know what you're getting into here. He has a hard time understanding because he had such a great childhood.

 

I think you're off to a great start! Continue to treat her well, and I'm sure she'll begin to trust you. Then- and this is very important- DON'T MESS UP!

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

Originally posted by Mz. Pixie

I can somewhat relate to what you're saying about her forgiving. That's very hard though. I'm a Christian too, and this was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I forgave my mother for the things she did to me growing up- but I haven't forgiven my stepfather yet. You can forgive, but you still don't forget.

 

I disclosed my abuse to a very good guy friend growing up. Little did I know he would confront my folks, who then convinced him I was making it up for attention. Alot of guys wouldn't want to have to deal with the patience it takes to be in a relationship with someone like this- because it does affect you.

 

When my BF first told me that he loved me. I said, wait, how can you? You don't know everything about me yet. You need to know what you're getting into here. He has a hard time understanding because he had such a great childhood.

 

I think you're off to a great start! Continue to treat her well, and I'm sure she'll begin to trust you. Then- and this is very important- DON'T MESS UP!

 

Thanks, Pixie. I've spent the last hour reading a bunch of articles on that "AskMen" site and they are really helpful. I've identified my main problem as overeagerness (moving too fast), and I think this is the perfect opportunity to scale back my enthusiasm and let her chase me some. The added breathing room will certainly make her feel better, and me backing off a little bit will probably calm my nerves some. Man, this dating stuff is complex!

 

And gd1039, this is a completely new girl. I am friends with the other one, though, because I realized she had no interest in me anyway.

[gd1039]

Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam

And gd1039, this is a completely new girl. I am friends with the other one, though, because I realized she had no interest in me anyway.

 

You sound like you are having some good luck meeting great girls recently...

 

Good luck with this girl.

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

Originally posted by gd1039

You sound like you are having some good luck meeting great girls recently...

 

I've had an excellent streak of meeting great girls lately, now it's just a matter of having one of them feel the same way about me. The problem has been in the timing - I want something serious and meaningful, and the others just wanted to casually date. The current girl shows promise, but I've learned my lesson about getting my hopes up. I'm going to lay low for awhile and see if she chases me. She did ask ME out the first time, after all, which I thought was pretty cool.

[shamen]

Hi WhereSpiritsRoam,

 

I know that it's not exactly the same, but I posted a thread a while back entitled, "Rape Survivors and Counseling: Self Discoveries." Maybe it'll be useful?

[blind_otter]

I push people away. I am terrified of intimacy because when yhou let someone in, they can reallyhurt you - and not just intentionally, but through thoughtlessness alone. Sometimes I have flashbacks, or mood changes because of memories of past trauma.

 

THere are also things you just do NOT joke about. Ask her if she has an triggers, things you should avoid talking about or any movements you should not make. Like, if I ask someone to stop doing something, say we are wrestling around on the bed joking, he had BETTER stop, or he could get elbowed in the eyeball. Google loved ones of rape/trauma survivors. There is a lot of info out there.

[reservoirdog1]

I am terrified of intimacy because when yhou let someone in, they can reallyhurt you - and not just intentionally, but through thoughtlessness alone.

Not to threadjack, but this seems like a good time to ask this -- not only of BO, but of any of the ladies on this thread. Could help WSR too.

 

Is it acceptable to ask a woman (in a sensitive way) what it takes to get her to let somebody in? If a guy asked you that, what would you answer?

 

I ask because the woman I'm dating is VERY cautious emotionally. Things are progressing gradually but I've sensed from the beginning that things could get messed up by me pushing too hard or moving too fast. About two weeks ago I came out and asked if she was emotionally cautious, and she replied with an emphatic yes. Didn't push farther though.

 

Which doesn't change the fact that I WANT to be let in. So far I seem to be doing all the right things, and whereas I'd earlier made all the overtures (to which she responded enthusiastically), she's gradually starting to put herself out there more. The only gauge I have as to her feelings is her eagerness to see each other again -- not from anything she admits about how she's feeling towards me or the situation.

 

This sounds really touchy-feely but it's mostly, I think, because I'm in unfamiliar territory. It'd be really cool for her to say how she's feeling and whether she sees potential long-term viability with me, but she hasn't yet... so I'm still reading signals. Which, BTW, are pretty positive so far.

 

So, ladies... keep reading signals from a cautious woman, or just come out and ask her what it would take for her to "let her guard down"?

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by reservoirdog1

Is it acceptable to ask a woman (in a sensitive way) what it takes to get her to let somebody in? If a guy asked you that, what would you answer?

 

So, ladies... keep reading signals from a cautious woman, or just come out and ask her what it would take for her to "let her guard down"?

 

Let me tell you a story. I have a wonderful, loyal, beautiful, gentle dog named Dingo (I named her). I found her in an abandoned lumber yard. She was about 5 years old (she's 12 now, still jumps the fence in the backyard but always trots right up to the front door. just to let me know she could leave if she wanted to). She had been severely abused and mistreated and was starving. It took months and months to coax her close enough to my brother in law's warehouse to catch her and take her home. We put food out in the abandoned lumber yard and slowly every day we would put the dish closer and closer to the warehouse. Eventually she learned to trust us, especially me, because I was so diligent about going to the lumber yard EVERY DAY, and kneeling out there for a few hours a day, watching her from a distance, until she came to me, and sniffed my hand and sniffed all over me. She shied away. The next day she came up to me again. It took a week before I could reach out and pet her. Even longer before I could hug her or bathe her.

 

Diligence. Patience. A gentle touch. Awareness. Above all - being calm. Not reacting off her emotions.

[Mz. Pixie]

BO has made some good points!

 

One trigger for me is someone sneaking up behind me and sliding their hands up around my chest. Hate it! I'm sure to tell every man I'm intimate with that this really bothers me.

 

RD-

 

I'm not sure if asking is a good idea or not and here's why- she may be thinking you're only asking to get her to let you in and then you will hurt her. Of course this would make no sense to a normal person but to someone like me- emotionally cautious- then it makes perfect sense.

 

When I met my BF I was so tired of what I had in my marriage ( i was separated) I laid my expectations down pretty much as soon as things got serious- once he asked me to be exclusive. I said- when my ex did this this and this it made me feel this way-and that is one reason why the marriage ended. I guess because we both wanted a serious relationship and weren't playing games with each other just made it so much easier. He pretty much did the same thing with me-because he had been burned before as well. It's funny because in the beginning I wasn't cautious- and he was. Now he isn't and I am.

 

Perhaps asking her what you could do to make her feel a bit more secure??

My BF's wife had cheated on him for a extended period of time before their divorce- she was pg with the other guys baby before their divorce was final. Anyway- he told me right up front that he had trust issues- and I could see why. He also told me that reassurance is a big deal to him in a relationship. So, I made sure that I gave him the reassurance that he needed- which was that if he gave me his heart I wasn't going to break it!

 

Whatever her emotional issues are- if she relates them to you over time then I'd try to do the exact opposite of what bothered her- but only if it comes naturally. For instance- when my bf worked his other job (which was the time that his exwife cheated) I made it a point to be where I said I would be. It was simple. He told me the other night that he never doubted me for one minute- never worried that I was off doing something I shouldn't be or felt the need to worry about what or who I was with ever. That is a big step for him!

 

For me, being taken for granted is a big issue- because my ex always did this.

My BF knows this and he goes out of his way to make sure I know how important I am to him. Even though he works basically three jobs he always makes sure he makes time for me- with three kids between us and four jobs- our calendars are consulted on a daily basis!

 

I applaud you guys who are so interested in the emotional aspects of your relationships. Any woman who says she can't find a good man out there- well, they obviously haven't looked at LS!

[faux]

Originally posted by Mz. Pixie

I applaud you! Alot of men in this situation would cut their losses and run the other direction- believe me, I've had that happen to me in the past.

 

This is exactly what I would recommend doing: Walk away from this woman. People who have been through such horrible things, and have not yet recovered, are usually not worth pursuing; they need to heal before they can be with anyone.

 

Unless, of course, he knows this woman very well, and believes that he can play by all of her rules and wait a very, very long time before he can begin to earn her trust. This woman may have difficulty realizing that this guy is not all of the other men who hurt her; she may not be able to trust him.This guy needs to decide if this woman is worth it.

 

Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam

Why would a lot of men run from a situation like this? That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. People who have not yet dealt with such serious problems are usually people who do not belong in relationshps, mostly because these people are not ready to be in a relationship, and must seek help before anything could work out. This is why I have become extremely cautious of dating women who are getting helped for any type of mental disorder, are on medication, or have yet to properly deal with past traumatic events. To me, this is the proper thing to do. I also have had very bad experiences getting involved with women like this.

 

I think the reason most men would run, however, is because they would have to focus on an actual relationship as opposed to getting sex as quickly as possible. I find that, all too often, trying to work for trust with someone who has been through a bad past usually does not work out well for me.

 

To my knowledge, she has never attended counseling.

 

She probably should. This is not something a person can overcome alone with any real effectiveness.

 

And yes, this girl is definitely worth it. She is sweet, smart, funny, and has impeccable morals/values, and I would be the luckiest guy in the world to be with her (officially) someday.

 

I hope that you are right. Just know that you could end up hurting yourself quite a bit if you keep hanging around this woman, and you are not anything official.

[noname]

Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam

The girl I'm seeing recently informed me that she was physically abused by her father when she was younger. She didn't specify if it was physical or sexual in nature (or both), but obviously this is something I have to be cognizant of when we are together. I don't know if anyone on here can speak from experience, but what can I expect from her when it comes to affection, etc.? She has said that abuse has made her very timid with intimacy, and that she often feels "suffocated" by men, even when it's someone she likes.

 

All I basically know is that childhood trauma of any sort never disappears and is almost always carried forward into adult life. Can you all offer me some insight on how I should act, or what I can do to make her comfortable with me? Aside from the physical abuse, she has been deceived by a lot of guys, so obviously she is not a very trusting person. I know that earning her trust will come in time, but in the interim, I want to make her comfortable with me given what she went through with her father.

 

As always, your input is greatly appreciated.

 

P.S. As an aside, I noticed that she had Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus on her coffee table when I was at her place this weekend - the chapter she was on was about learning to trust men following a traumatic event in your life. It seems like this is something that clearly bothers her.

 

 

assuming this actually was sexual abuse, this is a lot more common than you think. a good percentage of woman have gone through some form of childhood abuse from someone. could be daddy, uncle, friend. not everyone talks about it or has come to terms with it. chances are you have already been in a relationship like this and been unaware of it.

 

i'll say this much. don't try to be her savior. be her support, listen, aid when you can. but this is something that she has to tackle. you are here to help not rescue. too many times do men try to solve these problems by overcompensating and sometimes it messes things up worse.

 

you seem pretty grounded, so stick to what you do best. she has been through an f'ed up situation but she is still a woman/human. you need to listen to her, give when she needs/wants, but also withdraw yourself when she needs space.

 

pay extra attention to what she says to you and do not try to read into every nuance that is thrown at you. she is in many ways normal. i hear what you are saying about trust and holding back on intimacy unless she initiates, but that might not be the best course of action for a prolonged period of time. taking things at her pace does not mean changing yourself so much that she doesn't know the real you and if you start a pattern that may someday break, you are opening up a world of hurt. even though her guards may be up, she still needs to feel wanted and desired and loved and if you do that only in response to her advances and not on your own, she may get confused. i know that that might not make much sense but check this out... if you are only intimate in response to what she does, she may even correlate that to what happened in her childhood. sounds funny, but it is common for abuse survivors to blame themselves for what happened as if they initiated it.

 

just be there for her. listen, and be as open with her as you can. you will soon learn her threshold for intimacy and what things trigger distrust. and oh yeah, be ready for surprises and unpredictability... just treat good and she should see that you mean business...

 

p.s. make it a point to let her know that she need not apologize for past men's folly. she may be subconciously blaming herself for issues that she had no control over...

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

It's all a moot point now. I got my monthly "let's be friends" e-mail from her last night. It's all good, though. I know guys like me are in demand and I'm going to keep plowing forward. I'm here to chew gum and kick some romantic ass, and I'm all out of gum, baby!

[noname]

Originally posted by WhereSpiritsRoam

It's all a moot point now. I got my monthly "let's be friends" e-mail from her last night. It's all good, though. I know guys like me are in demand and I'm going to keep plowing forward. I'm here to chew gum and kick some romantic ass, and I'm all out of gum, baby!

 

that sucks. all that stressing and you get the old e-mail stiff-arm. well probably not the first time and definately not the last. it's the breaks, and you are not alone.

 

good luck with the kicking...

[blind_otter]

bummer, at least she could have told you to your face.

[WhereSpiritsRoam]

Originally posted by blind_otter

bummer, at least she could have told you to your face.

 

That's only happened one time, though I much preferred that. I guess the easy way out is appealing when you know you'll never see the person again. Like noname said, this probably won't be the last time this happens. Just gotta suck it up and move on, I guess.

[Mz. Pixie]

Awwwww I'm sorry honey! HER LOSS!