An abusive past…..

[Guyouthere]

Do any of you have any experience with anyone who loves the goth lifestyle and look (many piercings, etc. as well)?

 

It is my opinion that perhaps the trauma of the past can lead one to "go for that".

 

I think the style they like is a reflection of a dark side within them.

 

Any ideas on this???

[almond]

I think that it's an inaccurate generalisation for the most part.

 

People are abused. They may wear a lot of black and have a lot of piercings, or they may look and dress like you or I.

 

Goth doesn't automatically equal past trauma. Blanket statements based on appearance are usually foolish.

[Guyouthere]

I think that it's an inaccurate generalisation for the most part.

 

People are abused. They may wear a lot of black and have a lot of piercings, or they may look and dress like you or I.

 

Goth doesn't automatically equal past trauma. Blanket statements based on appearance are usually foolish.

 

No it doesn't always equal that…. but I have heard some say that, and I happen to agree this can contribute to the "love of darkness".

 

Think about it too….

 

It can be an "expression of death of something within" (a way to cover up feelings associated with abuse from long ago).

[almond]

We all experience pain. We all have some sort of trauma in our pasts. Many people are abused.

 

Not all of us go goth though, do we? And not all goths are more traumatised than the rest of us.

 

I simply don't agree with your generalisation.

[Guyouthere]

We all experience pain. We all have some sort of trauma in our pasts. Many people are abused.

 

Not all of us go goth though, do we? And not all goths are more traumatised than the rest of us.

 

I simply don't agree with your generalisation.

 

Well yes we all do experience pain.

 

No, not all of us go goth.

 

I think a study should be done on this to survey those who like goth, and ask them why they would be attracted to it

[almond]

Here is a study that might interest you: Prevalence of deliberate self harm and attempted suicide within contemporary Goth youth subculture: longitudinal cohort study | The BMJ

 

It does in fact appear that some of what you've said here may ring true.

 

This particular subculture is known to be accepting and welcoming of marginalised individuals, so the idea that there is some particularly vulnerable and troubled goths is not as far off the mark as I initially assumed.

 

Learning something new every day and such

[Guyouthere]

Here is a study that might interest you: Prevalence of deliberate self harm and attempted suicide within contemporary Goth youth subculture: longitudinal cohort study | The BMJ

 

It does in fact appear that some of what you've said here may ring true.

 

This particular subculture is known to be accepting and welcoming of marginalised individuals, so the idea that there is some particularly vulnerable and troubled goths is not as far off the mark as I initially assumed.

 

Learning something new every day and such

 

Thank you for this. It is very interesting and really shows a distinct connection.

I bookmarked it and will read through it further.

[regine_phalange]

In my teens I listened to a lot of dark music, wore total black and a goth cross often and I didn't have an abusive past. It was a phase I was going into, I think it's called teenage angst? I had many friends with the same taste and none had endured abuse in the past. We didn't do self harm and this nonsense, we were happy! I still love the music but don't listen to it as often, I've changed

[Toodaloo]

My best mate loves Goth...

 

She is the kindest sweetest person you can imagine and has an amazing family and friends.

 

One of my bosses loves Goth, he also loves Harley Davidson motor bikes and has a very successful sale career.

 

To assume that anyone who dresses a certain way or happens to like a particular style of music is abused or anything else is just hocum.

 

Try talking to people and getting to know them. You might be surprised.

[Guyouthere]

In my teens I listened to a lot of dark music, wore total black and a goth cross often and I didn't have an abusive past. It was a phase I was going into, I think it's called teenage angst? I had many friends with the same taste and none had endured abuse in the past. We didn't do self harm and this nonsense, we were happy! I still love the music but don't listen to it as often, I've changed

 

Im glad you didn't fall victim to it.

[Guyouthere]

My best mate loves Goth...

 

She is the kindest sweetest person you can imagine and has an amazing family and friends.

 

One of my bosses loves Goth, he also loves Harley Davidson motor bikes and has a very successful sale career.

 

To assume that anyone who dresses a certain way or happens to like a particular style of music is abused or anything else is just hocum.

 

Try talking to people and getting to know them. You might be surprised.

 

The study doesn't show that everyone in that culture is going to be "messed up", but it does show a much higher statistical correlation with self harm and suicide, so yes, there is definitely something there, and many of those individuals in that culture are evidently attracted to the death aspect/dark side of it, and in many cases, I believe it is directly related to their past abuse/neglect.

 

I feel bad for them if they are.

[deadelvis]

I dunno. Me and my friends all wear black, are heavily tattooed and maybe what you would consider "grown up punks". But I guess we're more punk/rockabilly than goth/emo. But now that we're in our 30's we're more into old cars and motorcycles, and not really painting our fingernails black. Most of us have had pretty crazy lives. Many of our friends have died. But I'm not sure if it's fair to say anyone who looks "goth" (is that even a real thing anymore? Isn't that like a 90's term? Isn't it the "hipster-thing" now?) suffered from abuse. I guess many of the women I know were raped or sexually abused, but I think that's more linked to poverty, and the terrible town we grew up in.

But I guess you do have a point. If you meet a woman and she looks like a Suicide Girl, there's a higher probability she's had sexual abuse but there's also a good chance she dated a guy who shot heroin and played in a band. It's easy to generalize, but there's a reason those stereotypes get started.

[autumnnight]

I have a friend who would be considered "Goth." She is funny and cheerful and a great, loyal friend. She just happens to like black, heavy music, and The Nightmare Before Christmas.

 

I think assuming that because someone has on black eyeliner they must be dysfunctional is arrogant, presumptuous, and almost insulting.

[MovingOnIsHard]

I feel that this thread is arrogant and absolutely self-serving.

 

OP, you are not helping your recovery by obssessing about this girl. And yes, i do think this topic about "goths" goes back to her again.

 

Go talk to a therapist. He/she will make light of all your questions

[Guyouthere]

I feel that this thread is arrogant and absolutely self-serving.

 

OP, you are not helping your recovery by obssessing about this girl. And yes, i do think this topic about "goths" goes back to her again.

 

Go talk to a therapist. He/she will make light of all your questions

 

I ask these things and bring these subjects up to not only understand what I went through, but I also want to learn and use it for future situations.

 

I just happen to prefer to be educated.

[autumnnight]

I ask these things and bring these subjects up to not only understand what I went through, but I also want to learn and use it for future situations.

 

I just happen to prefer to be educated.

 

This means you must be objective and able to look at all sides of an issue, as well as cautious for confirmation bias.

[MovingOnIsHard]

I ask these things and bring these subjects up to not only understand what I went through, but I also want to learn and use it for future situations.

 

I just happen to prefer to be educated.

 

How can you educate yourself by being dismissive of others' opinions that are different than yours? Someone posted here that being goth doesnt necessary equal to having an abusive past.. And yet you posted back, convinced that they are.

 

It seems like you are looking to have your own beliefs confirmed, not challenged.

 

A student does not go to History class, only to argue to the teacher that the Holocaust never happened. That's not how getting an education works.

[Gaeta]

My daughter was punk-goth in her teenage years and still is a little, she is in my profile picture. She is now a woman of 28 with 75% of her body tattooed and also has piercings. She had a very happy childhood and is a very positive up beat person, loved by everyone, huge social circle. She also has 3 degrees, hard-working and got her life together. She just happen to love heavy-metal punk music and the fashion associated with it.

[MovingOnIsHard]

My daughter was punk-goth in her teenage years and still is a little, she is in my profile picture. She is now a woman of 28 with 75% of her body tattooed and also has piercings. She had a very happy childhood and is a very positive up beat person, loved by everyone, huge social circle. She also has 3 degrees, hard-working and got her life together. She just happen to love heavy-metal punk music and the fashion associated with it.

 

I love hiphop music and I kind of get into the gang-culture as well... Doesnt mean i go shooting people down the street!!

[Guyouthere]

How can you educate yourself by being dismissive of others' opinions that are different than yours? Someone posted here that being goth doesnt necessary equal to having an abusive past.. And yet you posted back, convinced that they are.

 

It seems like you are looking to have your own beliefs confirmed, not challenged.

 

A student does not go to History class, only to argue to the teacher that the Holocaust never happened. That's not how getting an education works.

 

What I said is that the study shows that there is a direct correlation. It is obvious not all go that rote, but the evidence show this is a contributing factor to some.

 

There is no question the goth lifestyle is a dark one,,, and why some go for it can be due to their expression of pain. The study results show this to be the case for many.

 

That also goes along with my observations and beliefs.

[Guyouthere]

How can you educate yourself by being dismissive of others' opinions that are different than yours? Someone posted here that being goth doesnt necessary equal to having an abusive past.. And yet you posted back, convinced that they are.

 

It seems like you are looking to have your own beliefs confirmed, not challenged.

 

A student does not go to History class, only to argue to the teacher that the Holocaust never happened. That's not how getting an education works.

 

A truly educated person will realize that most of what is taught as history is biased, and certainly lacks a lot of factual information.

 

I will give you an example….

 

American history is widely taught, and yet a topic as Freemasonry is never included in the lesson plan, as deep as an effect it had on the foundation of the USA, it isn't even spoken about.

 

Ever wonder why?

 

[autumnnight]

What I said is that the study shows that there is a direct correlation. It is obvious not all go that rote, but the evidence show this is a contributing factor to some.

 

There is no question the goth lifestyle is a dark one,,, and why some go for it can be due to their expression of pain. The study results show this to be the case for many.

 

That also goes along with my observations and beliefs.

 

This single study may indeed show a correlation. I'd need to know the parameters, the methodology, the controls, etc. And can this study be replicated?

 

You want to draw a consistent, direct, and absolute link between the two because it fits YOUR story. Bottom line? You can't, not and actually be objective.

[autumnnight]

A truly educated person will realize that most of what is taught as history is biased, and certainly lacks a lot of factual information.

 

I will give you an example….

 

American history is widely taught, and yet a topic as Freemasonry is never included in the lesson plan, as deep as an effect it had on the foundation of the USA, it isn't even spoken about.

 

Ever wonder why?

 

 

You come across as an arrogant person who believes himself incapable of being wrong.

[Guyouthere]

This single study may indeed show a correlation. I'd need to know the parameters, the methodology, the controls, etc. And can this study be replicated?

 

You want to draw a consistent, direct, and absolute link between the two because it fits YOUR story. Bottom line? You can't, not and actually be objective.

 

I am a scientist by trade and I am very objective.

 

My instincts are usually right, and my instinct tells me that for some, there is an attraction to it for that particular reason.

 

Numbers don't lie

[Guyouthere]

You come across as an arrogant person who believes himself incapable of being wrong.

 

I am never wrong, because I can't be wrong, unless I am wrong, but I will never be wrong because I would be wrong to think I am being wrong.

 

Pickles on the table next to the fried tomatoes.

 

Please tip accordingly.

 

hehehe