You have no kids, she/he does, adjusting to a new lifestyle: the "noise" and activity

[Babolat]

I was not sure what Title to give this one.

 

It's something I have been thinking about for a while. I am 47, married 2 times, no kids, 1 other LTR and some short term relationships tossed in. At my age I have mostly dated woman with children, though I have dated a few without kids.

 

My ex gf and I are making another go at it. What I have noticed, is now that the issues that were in front of us before have mostly been resolved, I can't feel 100% calm around her. She is 43 with a 14 year old daughter. Both are very extroverted. Lots and lots of friends. Very social media connected. I am more on the introvert side, I like my quiet time, I don't watch a lot of TV, I don't use social media that much. But, I am also very social and like to go out, and can do so every weekend. I have a few close friends, many good friends. And I'm lucky that they reach out to me often to go out. My good friends think I am extroverted and so do people who meet me for the first time. I test as Introverted though. And I personally feel it; I need some quiet time sometimes.

 

Last night, while watching TV she asked me if I would be able to handle a house full of teenagers running around, doing their thing, on the computer, watching TV/movies, popping popcorn, etc. She has told me this before, once she is financilly capable she wants to buy a house and she wants all the neighborhood kids at "her house". She wants all of her daughters friends to come to her house. She had this in her previous relationship. Not so much now as she lives in a small 2 BDR apartment and her daughter does not like to bring friends over; she mostly goes to their homes. She even said if they are going to drink and do drugs she would rather they be at her house doing so. I said they would not be drinking in my house if they were not 21. She said, what she says a lot, "You have never been a parent, if you had been you would think different". I also said i think I would be fine with it as long as they respected our house rules. I have a small house, too. It fits me well. I also said to her, if we had a bigger house I don't see it as an issue. She said "but what if they are all in the room next to you, or in the family room, etc" I said "I'll go to my place in the house then, or manage as long as I can until I need to step away"

 

I like her daughter, she likes me, we get along well. She has brought a gf over to my house before for the weekend. The "noise" and "energy" does get to me a bit, but I manage. They are young girls, they do young girl things, scream a little, act silly, etc.

 

My ex gf can't sit still, either. Last night, during dinner I made, she went to the kitchen 5 times after we started eating. I asked why and she said to season her food, and, at her place she usually eats in the kitchen. While watching "The Voice" she is banging away on her laptop Facebooking, texting friends. Her daughter does this, too. They can't sit still. it's distracting and unsettling, for me.

 

For the men and woman, who like me, never had kids, and have never really been arounbd kids, are use to a quiet life, has this presented a challenge for you? Adjusting, adapting to a life "with kids", with "noise" and lots of activity around you? I hate to think I am so different that I will have to only date women without kids. I like kids, I'm not use to being around them of course, and it's not a deal breaker for me, at all. I am told, I am good with kids, too.

 

Thanks

Edited March 5, 2014 by Babolat

[MidwestUSA]

I can't comment on the daughter and her friends, I think their behavior is typical, and it's something you'll have to accept.

 

You do realize your girlfriend would be this way without a daughter? I laid down the law in my home. No facebooking during dinner; it's those few minutes during the day where we actually have time together. And if we're watching a show together, especially something like Idol or the Voice, where we critique, he's either watching it or he's not. There is plenty of time to be texting friends or whatever, outside of OUR time. I told him I felt like these other people, who he would not bother with anyway if not for the way technology makes it so easy, are invading our living room.

 

You're not living together, so it's within your rights to expect some peaceful time together.

 

Frankly, your girlfriend and I wouldn't get along. At all.

[Babolat]

I can't comment on the daughter and her friends, I think their behavior is typical, and it's something you'll have to accept.

 

You do realize your girlfriend would be this way without a daughter? I laid down the law in my home. No facebooking during dinner; it's those few minutes during the day where we actually have time together. And if we're watching a show together, especially something like Idol or the Voice, where we critique, he's either watching it or he's not. There is plenty of time to be texting friends or whatever, outside of OUR time. I told him I felt like these other people, who he would not bother with anyway if not for the way technology makes it so easy, are invading our living room.

 

You're not living together, so it's within your rights to expect some peaceful time together.

 

Frankly, your girlfriend and I wouldn't get along. At all.

Yup, we don't live together, so maybe it's different. It's rare we see each other during the week. I am trying to forecast "what living together" will look like. She says sometimes it's just nice to "be together" even if "we" are not talking or engaged in a conversation.

 

When at her place the TV is on 24/7, a laptop or phone is usually near by or open/on. It's distracting to me. Don't get me wrong, there ARE times she sets the phone down for hours at a time, which will surprise me. But, once on it I find it distracting, and a little rude. I think it's social media and peoples addiction to it, in general.

 

We usually do not watch TV at my house. Last night she actually asked me if we could watch The Voice. She indirectly knew one of the contestants on the Voice last night, has met her before. So after she sang she was on Facebook off and on. Eventually I told her I was going to bed, which I did, and read for a while in bed by myself. She also works from home, she's in sales/marketing, so she will be on the computer reading/working emails until 9PM+.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Babolat

[MidwestUSA]

So she's the type who needs to be 'connected' 24/7. If it was what I did all day for work, that would give me even more reason to disconnect when I get home.

 

I'm just telling you that I'm more like you. I enjoy quiet time. I like to read. I like to sit around and cuddle with my pets. I can sit in the garden pulling weeds for hours. I've been in homes where everyone is on all their various devices at the same time, and I can't wait to leave.

 

 

I don't know, it's another of those things you need to give a lot of thought to now that you've decide to get back with her. It may be that your relationship will work better if you never move in together. I'm sure there are people who make that work. Good luck!

[Babolat]

So she's the type who needs to be 'connected' 24/7. If it was what I did all day for work, that would give me even more reason to disconnect when I get home.

 

I'm just telling you that I'm more like you. I enjoy quiet time. I like to read. I like to sit around and cuddle with my pets. I can sit in the garden pulling weeds for hours. I've been in homes where everyone is on all their various devices at the same time, and I can't wait to leave.

 

 

I don't know, it's another of those things you need to give a lot of thought to now that you've decide to get back with her. It may be that your relationship will work better if you never move in together. I'm sure there are people who make that work. Good luck!

She is not as 24/7 connected as she was when we dated before, enough though that it's distracting and rude. I dunno, this social media stuff was not really around when I was married before, so maybe it's just me.

 

She reads too, a lot, which I like. After the Voice, going thru emails, then facebooking, she shut it all down and picked up a book. She always has to have "something" to distract her though; not sure why that bugs me and is unsettling for me. And I think to myself, "this is not that big a deal".

 

She has never worked a 9 - 5 job either; probably part of the reason she is like this.

 

I guess I also don't know what "normal" is for having a 14 year old in the house with lots of friends, too. I asked her how often, she said 3-4 days a week is what she wants wqhen she gets a house again. She grew up pretty much living in all of her friends houses, so I get why she is this way.

 

She also said she wants her daughter and her friends in her house, drinking and doing drugs, versus doing it somewhere else. I asked her if she will let her daughter drink under age, and she said yes, in her house she will. That sounded odd to me, but maybe that's what parents do these days? Rather than let their kids experiement on their own?

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm just telling you that I'm more like you. I enjoy quiet time. I like to read. I like to sit around and cuddle with my pets. I can sit in the garden pulling weeds for hours. I've been in homes where everyone is on all their various devices at the same time, and I can't wait to leave.

I'm the same way, and most of the men I've clicked with best are, too. The more restless types who crave background noise and constant activity are just on a different wavelength - one that feels chaotic and unsettling to me.

[MidwestUSA]

You can only hope that when the time comes, she's not as liberal about the drinking thing as she's making it sound now. Too many horror stories of parents in trouble for doing so. It will only take one run in with another parent whose kid she allowed to drink to have that all blow up in her face.

[Candy_Pants]

She wants her house to be the house where the underage drinking and drugging occurs???! If i were you I would NOT be present when that occurs.

[Babolat]

You can only hope that when the time comes, she's not as liberal about the drinking thing as she's making it sound now. Too many horror stories of parents in trouble for doing so. It will only take one run in with another parent whose kid she allowed to drink to have that all blow up in her face.

Agreed, and, she is very respectful about other parents' kids. I hear her on the phone when working out a sleepover, the questions she asks, the bavk and forth. So, I don't ever see her letting another familys child drink in her house without talking to that parent, first.

 

Heck, I remember once my gf asked me to leave her apartment, because the mother of a girl who was spending the night with her daughter had not met me yet and was not comfortable with me being there with her daughter.

[Babolat]

She wants her house to be the house where the underage drinking and drugging occurs???! If i were you I would NOT be present when that occurs.

I was not real clear on her comment, it just came out during her question to me about teens being in the house. I asked if she would allow her daughter to drink under age, and she said yes, but only in her house.

 

I need to follow up, as no, this is not something I will want in "our house".

[Babolat]

I'm the same way, and most of the men I've clicked with best are, too. The more restless types who crave background noise and constant activity are just on a different wavelength - one that feels chaotic and unsettling to me.

I love the way you said this; exactly how I feel. Short term, for us, yeah, it's not a big deal. But, at this point, I am 47, we have known each other for 2 years, and I am not thinking short term. I am trying to "see" what a long term looks like. This just doesn't feel like a deal breaker "I can't date you because you are restless and crave background noise and constant activity", but, maybe it is.

 

In a recent conversation with her I told her it's difficult for me to feel calm around her. She did not seem to get it.

[FitChick]

She has told me this before, once she is financilly capable she wants to buy a house and she wants all the neighborhood kids at "her house"...

 

She even said if they are going to drink and do drugs she would rather they be at her house doing it

 

My idea of hell. Don't move in together but live next door or within walking distance.

 

As for underage kids drinking and doing drugs, perhaps have your local cop visit and tell her what her liability would be. She might be jailed or even lose her house for corrupting minors or similar. If you tell her, she won't believe you. So have either a cop or lawyer speak to her.

 

You also would be putting yourself at risk for pedophilia charges if one of the friends didn't like you and accused you of molesting her. Tread very carefully especially if you are alone in the house with one of them. Make sure their parents know and maybe even sign a release that they know their kids occasionally visit and are okay with that. Consult an attorney.

 

My friend's second wife had a teenager who would deliberately leave the bedroom door open when she was dressing and he was around. He said he had to tread very carefully. The mother would not hear a word of criticism from him about her kids. They divorced.

 

Are you really that desperate for a woman to put yourself through this?

[xxoo]

She also said she wants her daughter and her friends in her house, drinking and doing drugs, versus doing it somewhere else. I asked her if she will let her daughter drink under age, and she said yes, in her house she will. That sounded odd to me, but maybe that's what parents do these days? Rather than let their kids experiement on their own?

 

No, it's not what parents do these days.

 

I'm 40, and I knew parents who did that when I was a teen. But the consequences for the parent (and the teen) were less severe then. I would NEVER allow my teen's friends to consume alcohol and drugs in my house. I don't want to get sued!

 

These sound like deal breakers for me. At your ages and stages, can't you both keep your own homes and enjoy the relationship without combining households? You are both set in your ways. No one is going to change.

[Babolat]

No, it's not what parents do these days.

 

I'm 40, and I knew parents who did that when I was a teen. But the consequences for the parent (and the teen) were less severe then. I would NEVER allow my teen's friends to consume alcohol and drugs in my house. I don't want to get sued!

 

These sound like deal breakers for me. At your ages and stages, can't you both keep your own homes and enjoy the relationship without combining households? You are both set in your ways. No one is going to change.

I have no immediate plans to live with her, and she said "her house", not a shared house. We have not even got close to having that talk.

 

That said, if I can't live with her eventually because of something like this, for me that being the "end goal" of dating, a life partner I live with, this is probably a deal breaker.

 

Interesting off topic point though about our age, being set in our ways, and keeping two households..never thought about that, in general. Hmmmm...

[Ruby Slippers]

This just doesn't feel like a deal breaker "I can't date you because you are restless and crave background noise and constant activity", but, maybe it is.

 

In a recent conversation with her I told her it's difficult for me to feel calm around her. She did not seem to get it.

I see the underlined as a big thing.

 

This reminds me of a difference between my ex and me, one that seemed small at first, but got bigger, and I think ultimately revealed a deeper personality difference.

 

I'm a music lover and always have been. I play music as a hobby and have friends who do, too. Though my ex appreciated some music and credited me with showing him what "good music" is, he is not a music lover. It doesn't seem like a big difference on the surface.

 

But once we started spending more time together and making long drives between our cities regularly, he started griping at me for playing "too much music" on the drives. He said it's "not normal to listen to music for hours on end". I said I'm a music lover, and it's fine if he's not, but all he has to do is ask me to turn the music off for a while or pick out some talk radio or audio book (his preference), and I'll do it.

 

Next incident - we're cooking dinner in his kitchen, and I put some old-timey jazz on a low volume on my phone while we're working. After a few songs, he gets all irritated and goes, "Isn't that enough music? I'm tired of it!" Again, I said all he has to do is ask nicely and I'll meet him in the middle without complaint.

 

The worst infraction came when I was playing him one of my demos I recorded a while back. He didn't seem interested, asked me to turn it off halfway through, and never asked to hear any of my music again. Creativity is at the core of who I am, and I didn't feel good about him not caring or having any interest in that part of me. He's not a music lover, and really didn't care about my music.

 

I agree with you that if you can't live peacefully with your partner, there's not much of a future. I'm not sure why you are still fighting so hard for this union when it's pretty clearly not a compatible one. Well, I get it - you love her.

 

I still miss my ex and wonder "what if?" sometimes. But honestly, reading your threads always reminds me of all those little things that added up to one big mismatch, and reaffirms my confidence that I made the right decision to break it off when I did.

[BC1980]

Babolat, is this the same woman you were waffling about getting back with? I hope it works, but you've raised some serious issues here with the kids drinking and experimenting with drugs at her home.

 

As far as kids are concerned, you do have to get used to that. My ex's son was 8 when we met, so I used to get really irritated with the constant video game playing. His father would literally let his son play 8 hours a day on weekends. I also like solitude, reading, gardening, those types of things. It's all a give and take, and you have to decide how much you can live with.

[Raena]

You need to get yourself a good man cave. One that is only for you and away from the noise. That way when you need alone time, you can go there and everyone else in the house knows to leave you alone in there. Heck, you could probably even sound-proof it. lol.

[Babolat]

You need to get yourself a good man cave. One that is only for you and away from the noise. That way when you need alone time, you can go there and everyone else in the house knows to leave you alone in there. Heck, you could probably even sound-proof it. lol.

Ha, I thought about that last night. My prior house had all that, current his is a 1920s little cape that is perfect for me, but very small. No caves here; a scary small basement though!

 

I dunno, if you have to run to your man cave THAT often, is it a relationship?

[Babolat]

I see the underlined as a big thing.

 

This reminds me of a difference between my ex and me, one that seemed small at first, but got bigger, and I think ultimately revealed a deeper personality difference.

 

I'm a music lover and always have been. I play music as a hobby and have friends who do, too. Though my ex appreciated some music and credited me with showing him what "good music" is, he is not a music lover. It doesn't seem like a big difference on the surface.

 

But once we started spending more time together and making long drives between our cities regularly, he started griping at me for playing "too much music" on the drives. He said it's "not normal to listen to music for hours on end". I said I'm a music lover, and it's fine if he's not, but all he has to do is ask me to turn the music off for a while or pick out some talk radio or audio book (his preference), and I'll do it.

 

Next incident - we're cooking dinner in his kitchen, and I put some old-timey jazz on a low volume on my phone while we're working. After a few songs, he gets all irritated and goes, "Isn't that enough music? I'm tired of it!" Again, I said all he has to do is ask nicely and I'll meet him in the middle without complaint.

 

The worst infraction came when I was playing him one of my demos I recorded a while back. He didn't seem interested, asked me to turn it off halfway through, and never asked to hear any of my music again. Creativity is at the core of who I am, and I didn't feel good about him not caring or having any interest in that part of me. He's not a music lover, and really didn't care about my music.

 

I agree with you that if you can't live peacefully with your partner, there's not much of a future. I'm not sure why you are still fighting so hard for this union when it's pretty clearly not a compatible one. Well, I get it - you love her.

 

I still miss my ex and wonder "what if?" sometimes. But honestly, reading your threads always reminds me of all those little things that added up to one big mismatch, and reaffirms my confidence that I made the right decision to break it off when I did.

I could not live without music, talk radio and the like, It's on 24/7 and always in the car. It's on as I type! He sounded kind of controlling to me and not capable of compromising.

 

Yes, I do love her. When I was leaving the morning I was thinking how beautiful she looked in bed and enjoyed waking up with her.

 

But, yes, there are mismatches, and it feels sad, because unlike my marriage, where we fought all the time, we don't. I like her and enjoy being around her, for the most part. We get along well and she is a lot of fun. And, at 47 I ask myself, a lot, am I not able to compromise, adapt, adjust? What's a true deal breaker?

 

She smoked a lot of pot as a teen and into her early 20s. She smoked it daily before and after going to high school and started when she was 13. I've been hearing stories on NPR about research on how smoking pot at a young age can interfere with brain development. Studies are showing it leads to memory and decision making issues, and anxiety as an adult. I see this with her.

[Babolat]

I asked her over text last night if her comments about teens in the house (noise, actitivy, distractions, how often per week), drug use and drinking too, was in refernce to "her future house", or "our house", should we get that far. She replied "Both". I told her we need to talk, which we will do tomorrow night.

 

My house rules seem to be different, then hers, which does not sound like a deal breaker, but I guess it could be.

 

Her constant need for stimulation (Facebook, checking emails, Googling, playing games on her phone, etc) is something I do not know how to address. I have brought it up before, telling her I did not think she is able to "sit still", she agreed. I also told her I don't feel calm around her a lot of the time because of this.

 

An example of this is she recently went to a B-Day party for one of her sisters kids, an 8 year old. She took a book with her. I asked her why. She said she needed something to do if she had down time for 5-10 minutes. Another example, we will be leaving my house to go out (dinner, bar, meet friends, etc). She has to have her phone on, looking at Facebook, posting, playing Candy Crush or whatever it's called, or something. When we dated before, last yea,r she was constantly playing some song game, Song Pop maybe, on her phone and it drove me nuts. Hearing the darn songs, her being distracted, not "with me". When she was at my house Tuesday night, laptop open, phone next to her, TV on, I felt like anything I said to her, any attempt to have a conversation, was useless. She would respond "uh huh", but I know she was not listening. The irony is she tells me we never talk, we never engage in good debates or talk about deep stuff. Really?

 

How do I talk to her about this? I don't see this as something she is going to change; it's her.

 

She tells me, when I talk to her about things that concern me about her/us, she feels emotionally "hit"; then she will shut down for days sometimes, even weeks sometimes until she can "recover".

Edited March 6, 2014 by Babolat

[Chocolat]

What I have noticed, is now that the issues that were in front of us before have mostly been resolved, I can't feel 100% calm around her.

 

Your comment here sounds a whole lot like what you wrote back in December in this post.

 

I don't know if it's an issue of drama or introvert/extravert, but it seems that, on some level, you and your gf are not compatible. Being comfortable with someone is intangible but crucial, imo.

 

FWIW, I am an introvert who also enjoys socializing (I think the myth of introverts being shy and awkward can be just that - a myth) but I also need down time and I hate drama. While I am sometimes initially drawn to extraverted guys, I find that these relationships wear me out in the long haul. The last guy I dated simply could not sit still - he had to be checking his phone or posting on Facebook or otherwise doing something other than just sitting peacefully. It made me buggy for reasons I am not sure I even fully understand.

 

From what I've read, the most challenging partnership is between an introverted guy and extraverted woman. So I'm guessing this is why is it even harder for you.

 

Beyond this is the issue of parenting style. Even though you don't have kids, it sounds as though your style might not be similar to your gf's. There's nothing wrong with that, either. As a parent, I don't buy the notion that all kids will drink and/or do drugs (especially while under-age), nor support the notion that I should facilitate these activities under the guise that they are going to do it anyway so just roll with it.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Chocolat
missing word

[Babolat]

Your comment here sounds a whole lot like what you wrote back in December in this post.

 

I don't know if it's an issue of drama or introvert/extravert, but it seems that, on some level, you and your gf are not compatible. Being comfortable with someone is intangible but crucial, imo.

 

FWIW, I am an introvert who also enjoys socializing (I think the myth of introverts being shy and awkward can be just that - a myth) but I also need down time and I hate drama. While I am sometimes initially drawn to extraverted guys, I find that these relationships wear me out in the long haul. The last guy I dated simply could not sit still - he had to be checking his phone or posting on Facebook or otherwise doing something other than just sitting peacefully. It made me buggy for reasons I am not sure I even fully understand.

 

From what I've read, the most challenging partnership is between an introverted guy and extraverted woman. So I'm guessing this is why is it even harder for you.

 

Beyond this is the issue of parenting style. Even though you don't have kids, it sounds as though your style might not be similar to your gf's. There's nothing wrong with that, either. As a parent, I don't buy the notion that all kids will drink and/or do drugs (especially while under-age), nor support the notion that I should facilitate these activities under the guise that they are going to do it anyway so just roll with it.

 

Well said, and ironcially I thought about my prior post, too. I agree on the Introvert myth, and it's something that use to bug me, as I am very social and love going out; yet I need my quiet time. And, like you, I am attracted to extroverts, at first, and then it can wear on me if it's too much extrovert.

 

I saw a girl for 1-2 months back in the fall who was an introvert like me. We even tested the same with the online tests. I liked her, a lot, though she was too introverted; to the point where she was not comfortable being social around my friends, and even said so. She was almost too quiet. We were very sexaully compatabile, but, going out sometimes, unless she had a couple of drinks, there was not a lot of conversation; mostly me talking and her looking at me.

 

The parenting style does not feel like a deal breaker because her daughter is 14, meaning she will not be "around" in the future, should we live together. If she was younger for some reason I feel like it would be more of an issue, because of the time. Plus, I am not her father. And when I have asked what her expectation of me is with her daughter, she says to be a good role model and be her friend.

 

When I ask myself "could I raise a child with this woman" I think "No". I counter that with "You are 47, you are not going to raise a child with her, why does it matter". For some unknown reason, it does matter. My boys are still good as I was recently tested and sometimes i do think I want a child.

 

She tells me, when we disagree on something about parenting, that I have never been a parent. True, but I had parents, I know how they raised me, and I respect the way they raised me. I think I turned out pretty good! At least with my morals, my boundaries, my decision making, being responsible, respect, etc.

 

I also have friends and family who are parents, and I see the results of "their" parenting styles. My brothers 30 year old daughter has spent time in jail for stealing and multiple DUIs, she does not have a job/career, still, uses drugs, is an addict, uses men for money, and is now selling her body for money, while in a relationship. And there are other stories in my family that are similar. Guess where she lives at age 30? With my brother. And, they drink and party together. Ugh.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Babolat

[Haydn]

Actually in the UK Children can legally drink at home with supervision. My neighbours have 2 teenagers and once a month they have party with their friends invited. Supervised by the parents. The occasional vomiting teenager but all good fun. They are well adjusted kids, good school marks etc.. Seems to give them a good grounding. I think i would go this way with my daughter later on. (Maybe). To me drink and drugs are the same, only one is legal.

[Ruby Slippers]

How do I talk to her about this? I don't see this as something she is going to change; it's her.

Ask her to unplug from the matrix for an hour, put all the devices away in another room, on silent, so you can have some human time versus machine time.

 

It's understood among my friends and I, and anyone I have a romantic relationship with, that you don't use your phone at the dinner table or when we're hanging out. Nobody even has their phone out at the dinner table. We all seem to agree that burying yourself in any device while spending time together is just unsociable and rude, and limit checking our phones to now and then during transitional times.

 

My ex used to bring his laptop to bed in the evening, and when I was about to get in bed, I once said, "Is there room for me in the bed with that laptop?" He got the message, and from then on, when we were ready to get in bed together, the laptop got shut down.

 

One thing I really liked with him is how much we could both enjoy quiet time together. Even if we weren't "doing anything", it felt relaxing and nice. Sometimes we'd sit in the yard, him in his chair smoking a cigar, and me lying in the grass watching the clouds, for 2 hours, just lazily talking and enjoying the afternoon.

 

We had long talks about how we pictured life to be if we had kids together, and agreed we would always sit down together as a family and have dinner, with no TV, no devices, nothing but a good meal and conversation. Anything else sounds chaotic and a bit torturous to me.

[preraph]

Honestly, it doesn't sound like your lifestyles mesh, and those are the kinds of little things that will drive you nuts once it's 24/7. I wouldn't be able to handle it at all. It also doesn't sound like she's going to make any amendments to her preferred chaotic lifestyle to make you comfortable, so i would take that as a red flag as well. As far as wanting all the teens to hang out at her house -- to me, it sounds like she thinks of herself maybe more as wanting to be friends with them than to be a parent, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Have you ever thought about getting on a childfree forum and meeting women there who don't have or want kids? If you like a quieter home, well, a houseful of teens is going to be like living in a sorority house, pretty much.