I need an honest opinion about a breakup

[Matteye]

OK, so I met this amazing girl where I work. She’s 22 and I’m 30. I was living with my girlfriend (off and on by my doing) of 2 years. I was finally ready to break things off with my ex because I knew she wasn’t the one I wanted to marry and I had fallen out of love with her, so why waste her time. Anyways, to shorten this part of the story, I broke up with my ex and the 22 year old and I started dating 3 weeks later. We’d been dating for 5 months when she broke up with me, but I’ll get to that.

 

We moved extremely fast, which was a new thing for me. Normally I take things really slow, but with her it was different. We fell in love so fast. She was just about to graduate from college (undergrad) and she would finish her Masters in a year. She is extremely intelligent and amazingly beautiful. Definitely the hottest girl I’ve ever dated by far. We talked about getting married and she even told her family “I found the one for me…now I know what people mean when they say you’ll just know he’s the one you want to spend the rest of your life with”. Two months ago she begged me to get a dog, and after about 2 weeks of fighting it I gave in. She said it would be a great thing for us to do together.

 

She was having issues with her college roommates so basically she stayed at my house every day almost since we started dating. She didn’t seem to mind and I wanted to spend every second with her because I had fallen hard in love. It all seemed perfect. I had met the girl of my dreams. I knew she was the one. I’d been through enough to know what I didn’t want, trust me. Once her lease was up at her house, she got an apartment about 2 blocks away from my condo. Neither of us were ready to move in together or anything. Her family is religious and wouldn’t approve, plus I just lived with a girl for the first time ever and it didn’t work out very well.

 

Things were mostly great, but we had a few instances where she would confront me on my tone of voice when I talked to her if I was stressed or frustrated and she thought I got too riled up when we would argue. I would NEVER get violent or threaten her, but she took everything I said as “yelling at her”. She is very passive aggressive in arguments, and shuts down if I get emotional at all. I have had a lot of stress at work and I can admit I have had a tendency to pick on her a little bit at times. She has seen a counselor in the past because she grew up thinking her dad was the same way and would pick on her mom. Her dad has been much better for the last 10 years, but it caused her some childhood heartache. When we would argue I would not really look at myself in the way I communicated with her. Many times I would say to her defensively “You’re being selfish” or “Why do you think I’m yelling at you?” or “Why do you do that or this.” It was all defensive questioning involved “her” only. I would think to myself, the only reason why I got mad is because “she did this” or “acted like this”, or she is overreacting based on something that happened to her as a kid. I wasn’t looking at myself.

 

So to continue, She took an internship with a major corporation and was leaving for Texas for a 2 week training seminar last month. We got in an argument the day she left based on me thinking she was being selfish about a topic involving taking our dog to the vet, but we worked it out before I took her to the airport.

 

My 30th birthday was the first weekend she was in Texas, so she missed it by no choice of her own. She left on a Monday and on the Wednesday after that I got a voicemail from an ex girlfriend (let’s call her W) of 6 years ago who lives in the same town as us with her current boyfriend. We have remained friends since our relationship ended. W had wondered if she had missed my birthday, so I called her back and told her that she didn’t miss it and told her my plans of going back to my hometown for the weekend to hang with friends and family. I didn’t have the means or energy to take the dog with me so I asked her if her and her BF could dog sit. She loves dogs and of course said yes. Well, on my way to my hometown my girlfriend called me and asked what I did with the dog. I told her and she flipped out. She is a very jealous person, and she ended up breaking up with me on my birthday while she was in Texas. She claimed she almost broke up with me the day she left, yet that first week in Texas before she found out about the dog, she text messaged me how much she missed me every day and wanted to come home and get married.

 

Now I realize that the decision to let my ex dog sit was kind of harsh, but to me it was a friend helping a friend out. My girl didn’t see it that way.

 

So, since she’s been back she has wanted to hang out but will not take me back. She claimed at first she needed to see major changes in the way I talk to her for us to get back together because she cant live like that for the rest of her life. Since the breakup I’ve realized a lot about myself regarding my relationships with people when I’m stressed and how I can talk to people without realizing I’m being condescending. I’m working on this big time, and know I'm changing each day, one day at a time. She has even seen change over the last 3 weeks, but now that she’s single, she wants to take time to figure out what she wants. She’s back to partying to get away from the stress of graduating college and starting a full time job for the first time ever. She’s also hating living by herself now that we are not together. She’s lonely because most of her college friends have moved home.

 

Over the past 6 months I have gotten close with her family. Her sister, who is 26 and married, emails me quite frequently with advice and let’s me know that her sister still loves me, but is just confused. She tells me to be patient and be there for her and her wall will come down and she will trust me again. I’m trying to give her time to figure things out, but it is so hard because we went from 1 to 10 so fast, and now she wants to go back to 2 if you know what I mean. I’m hurt more than I have ever been. At first I told her I couldn’t just be friends and “hang out” but she told me “how can we ever get back together if we don’t hang out?”. She claims to see a future for us, but will not commit and will not refrain from dating other people. She even admitted she’s been on a date, but said it was not big deal.

 

She gives me mixed signals some days that seem like she wants to work things out, but then the next day the wall is up around her feelings again. I asked her how she could go from talk of “the one” to breaking up so fast, but the communication is a huge thing to her. Her biggest fear in life is that her husband will grow apart from her over time. She feels her parents have done this, but remained married for family and religious reasons.

 

I've made a concious decision in the last 3 days to not bring "us" up when we hang out, and it's been very nice. I'm just trying to take one day at a time.

 

Any advice? So sorry for the length!

[magda]

Well, there's a lot going on there and it's hard to offer you any advice. Who has the dog?

 

It's especially hard to tell what's going on because on the one hand, you say things like,"Things were mostly great, but we had a few instances where she would confront me on my tone of voice when I talked to her if I was stressed or frustrated and she thought I got too riled up when we would argue." and then ,"She is very passive aggressive in arguments, and shuts down if I get emotional at all."

 

On the one hand you say she thought you got too "riled up" but a breath later you say that she shuts down if you make ANY show of emotion.

 

You say, "I didn’t have the means or energy to take the dog with me so I asked her if her and her BF could dog sit." and also, "Now I realize that the decision to let my ex dog sit was kind of harsh, but to me it was a friend helping a friend out. " I need to ask you, how is it exactly that you now see that having your ex dog-sit was kind of harsh? I mean, you've explained it so that you had perfectly good reason, and go on to say you guess it was kind of harsh. I'm not seeing the harshness and neither do you seem to be. It's things like that that will make her upset. You haven't explained what her reasons were for being mad at all. Why did this upset her? You've been friends with the ex for 6 years, she has a BF... if she has a legitimate reason to be upset about this you haven't mentioned it.

 

"I’ve realized a lot about myself regarding my relationships with people when I’m stressed and how I can talk to people without realizing I’m being condescending."

I think it might be something deeper than condescension, but more like a fundamental belief that you are right - that you are entitled to feel the way you do. By saying things like "I guess it was kind of harsh" or "I have had a lot of stress at work and I can admit I have had a tendency to pick on her a little bit at times." you are offering up a completely empty validation of what she feels. You can't say, "i have a tendency to pick on you at times" and expect it to mean anything when you justify it by saying "i've had trouble at work" and "she is passive-aggressive and shuts down if I get emotional AT ALL." Well, you CAN say whatever you like, but it is condescending in a way - it makes admition of fault of your own meaningless because you still manage to point the blame on her. I think you're passive aggressive in your own right. In writing your history there, you leave your reader with no room to think you're anything but the mature, rational person in the relationship.

 

Another question I have is about the trust thing. You say she needs to learn to trust you again. How did you break her trust exactly, you didn't mention.

 

My general impression is that you really need to make a very very conscious effort to regard her as a serious, rational, person. Not someone who acts out because of her childhood, "a very jealous person", "passive-aggressive", etc. Things like that take away her equality in the relationship and chips away at her .. soul. You need to always talk about things with each other, the communication needs to be the thing that keeps you together or else you'll come apart. When she's acting jealous, don't label her jealous and then defend yourself. Find out why she's jealous, why she feels slighted. Explain why you believe you didn't slight her but acknowledge that she felt slighted and go from there trying to resolve the damages and plan to make it a learning experience about each other that will improve similar circumstances you might encounter in the future. It isn't a matter of "wrong" or "right". Wrong and right doesn't matter - it doesn't exist. You are both right you are both wrong - let it go. What should matter is the PRESENT and the FUTURE and if you dwell too much on the past, what do you have?

 

I think that you should continue soul-searching this matter - your ways of communicating and the meaning behind why you tend to repeat this over and over with her. Did you do this with other women? When did this start?

With her, you have to give her time, but time isn't what is going to change her mind. She's still hanging around you just waiting for you to change. She's lonely, she wants to be with you, but -especially because of the age difference- you need to treat her as an equal. Put her before yourself, even, in certain ways. If you love her then it won't be a problem to make her happy when the result is more happiness all around. Respect her feelings like they are sacred. Care about how and why she thinks the way she does like it's a blister on your toe. Don't explain why you acted the way you did in a situation [that caused an argument] but just say calmly how you feel and LISTEN to how she feels and no matter how she feels validate it by saying "i understand why" (and if you don't understand... figure out how to! ). Understanding why is how you will validate her feelings and how she will yours. You are both entitled to feel, and feelings cannot be measured on any scale of right/wrong. Right/wrong doesn't solve any problems, only understanding does.

 

So think about it and change the way you talk to her. Think of your weaknesses and tell her what to do to help you work through them. You don't want to put her on the defensive, tell her what to do to make you see it when it happens. Ask her to help you understand and talk to her the way she needs.

 

I hope this helped a little. Good luck.

[Matteye]

I know a lot of the history was left out, but I was trying not to write a 20 pager.

 

To answer some of your questions, she has had the dog since Sunday night. He had been staying at my house up until that point and I told her I just couldn't take on pet ownership by myself when it was something we did together. I did offer to dog sit whenever she wanted. She has never had a dog, let alone taken care of a puppy, but she begged me to let her get him.

 

I'm not sure exactly when or where things went wrong, but looking back we definitely took things too fast. I think for us the 8 year age difference and how fast we jumped into things hindered our chances. It's almost like we fell in love without getting to be true friends first. I had just gotten out of a long relationship and she had just dumped her recent boyfriend of a month. Looking back I see all these signs that we were not on the same level. I'm pretty settled, I own a house, I have a career, I consider myself mature, and I should have been more aware. She is still figuring out what she wants from life. She has had one 2 year relationship and multiple short relationships where she gets into a boyfriend / girlfriend scenario, then dumps the guy as soon as she finds a reason why she could never marry him. When we were just friends she would brag how she's never been dumped and how guys won't leave her alone after she dumps them. She is model beautiful and has a perfect body, but yet still thinks she is fat and even had an eating disorder her Freshman year in college. She still has major self esteem issues and can be very jealous, yet gets upset with me If I think it's weird that she wants to have lunch with an ex. I hestitated to date her because I thought she was the typical party girl, but when we got to know eachother I saw a totally different side of her. She wanted a family, was from a religous background as I am.

 

 

We said those 3 little words to eachother very fast, even though she had trust issues with me. You see, I had started flirting with her when I was still with my ex, but knowing in my head things were just about to be over. I have never been a cheater, but she was worried I would someday do the same to her. This is where we had some trust issues early on, but they were put to rest fairly quickly. The trust I spoke of in my first post was her trusting me to not hurt her by talking to her like I did at times. Over the course of our relationship I would get frustrated because I would think she would act like the world revolved around her and that it was all about her. I'd get frustrated and that's how 90% of our arguements happened. She thought it was "All the time", but it was more like 3-4 times in 4 months where we got in an argument and she would tell me she didn't like how I talked down to her like I was her dad or something. I wear my emotions on the sleeve of my shirt to my own detriment and she would get mad at me for how I got animated. I know now that I should be more calm and willing to talk about how I feel instead of instantly getting defensive. I definitely didn't validate her feelings.

 

In the last 3 weeks I have been looking hard at myself and how I treated her. It comes down to me not being aware of how my tone of voice was. I would blow her off by being defensive and subconciously blame it on her for being young or selfish, when it was really me being selfish. I know I need to make a huge effort to regard her as a serious, rational, person, like you said, and not someone who acts out because of her childhood. I've done a lot of soul searching and know that i'll be a better person and boyfriend / husband after this regardless of what happens between her and I. Only problem is, I truly feel like i've met my dream girl, and I wish she would hold my hand as I show her i've changed. When the times were good, i've never imagined being happier. We have had some amazing times together. I just wish I could have looked harder at myself when we were together.

 

Her sister thinks there is hope, and I pray that there is, but I'm just confused and worried that if we do get back together she will be unwilling to work at things. To me relationships are not one sided, but after she broke up with me she said she didn't see anything about herself she needed to change. I know I can't change her mind, but I'm still in love with her. It's tough.

[miggsbucks]

u need to keep the stories a bit more succinct in order to encourage a reply, theres too much stuff to read on this website without spending 10 hours on one person

[miggsbucks]

sorry guess that was a bit harsh my comment. you should be able to say whatever you want on here it does help, and we're all here to help you. but theres a lot of fascinating stories to read on here about break-ups, and i think people need to review what theyre writing before posting it, if they want to illicit a response.

 

i always wonder whether i go on and on.. and on and on... and on and on.. and on and on.. to my friends.. about my love troubles. i guess that its true what someone once wrote "once you are bored talking about your ex.. then you are over them"

[miggsbucks]

god i've been such a d***, i'll read that post again when i'm sober, i'm sure there will be plentiful more sympethic people responding......... sorry!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matteye]

I know it's a novel, but there was no way not to write that much. I'm stoked to get repsonses, but I didn't expect any. It was more about just letting my hurt flow and if someone responded, well that's cool.

[dreamguy]

Matteye,

 

I just read your post on the other thread where you ask for my opinion. Here's my take (it's a little crazy but give me a chance to explain and read my reply till the end please).

 

I seriously doubt that the "dog" issue has anything to do with your ex's decision to break up with you. In fact, I can guarantee you it has nothing to do with it. I'm willing to bet my life on it.

You see, she claimed she almost broke up with you the day she left but the truth is, Matteye, that people reflect upon this for weeks (if not months) before asking for a break or ending a relationship. The dumpee just rarely sees it coming so they think their partner made an instantaneous decision to walk away.

Your ex also claims to see a future for you two, but will not commit and will not refrain from dating other people.

 

Join those two reasons together a) the dog issue and b) the fact that she won't refrain from dating other people and you will come out with 1 logical answer: Your ex has already spotted someone else she likes (perhaps she has not made a move yet) and so she has used the first pathetic excuse available (the dog thing) to get out of the relationship without having to tell you the truth which will make her sound like a b*tch and make her feel extremely guilty.

As to the fact that since she’s been back she has wanted to hang out but will not take you back, it means that she still feels guilty even if you don't know the truth behind her decision and she still likes you so she wants to keep you in limbo (waiting around for her) until she checks out that other person.

 

Talking about your tone of voice (the one she doesn't like) I would agree that continuously raising your voice at someone is a bad thing in relationships but then again you said "I would NEVER get violent or threaten her". So I don't think is the issue either. It all boils down to what I said above.

 

I had the exact same thing happen with my ex 2 months ago. We had been together for 8 months and we never had a fight. I never even raised my voice or acted violently. And I mean NEVER. Then she came up with an excuse that my personality scares her and asked for a break. When we got back together 1 week later, she asked for a break again giving me the real reason "Her old bf was back in her life and he wanted to get married."

 

So you see, 99% of the time people give you wrong excuses when they break up with you. Believe it !

You can either be her friend (but never mention your feelings and/or the past) or you can explain that you have feelings for her and thus it is impossible to remain friends with her. The next move is up to you.

[Matteye]

Thanks for the reply DG. I know 100% the dog wasn't the issue at hand, and she was the first to admit that. It was, in her opinion, the final straw after we got in another spat where she thought I talked down to her. Anyways, I know the past indicates that about 90% of the time it means there is another guy she either is dating or has a crush on. She mentioned to me last week "I know this might not help, but this is the longest i've gone without finding another person to be with after breaking up with a boyfriend, so that should show that I really do love you". OK...maybe....or is it that she just doesn't have it lined up yet. You see, she gets more guy attention than any girl i've ever dated. She's the girl you take to a bar and every guy is checking her out and looking at you going "yeah bro..nice" It's happened a few times. Anyways, what i'm saying is she could get any guy she wants, so maybe she is being honest. She claims she just wants to be single right now and take care of herself right now. She has always in her mind put her boyfriends first and relied on them to make her happy. She did that to me as well. She has a very kind heart, and she even dated a guy that was in a wheelchair because she felt like she needed to help him in his recovery from a motorcycle accident that paralyzed him from the waist down. She claims the relationship wasn't even sexual. They started dating while he was in physical therapy, so she didn't date him when he wasn't paralyzed.

 

Anyways, we are spending time together...casual stuff like making a quick dinner for one another, etc. She walked over to my house with the dog on Wed for a quick dinner. We ended up watching TV for an hour afterwards. She lives 2 blocks away so it's pretty easy to do. She still hasn't opened up about her feelings, but last night she called my cell and house and left a message on both. I wasn't home and didn't have my cell phone on me. Before when she would call, it would be to vent about something, not just to say hello or anything. It is like she is still relying on me to be there to support her and make things better. I called her and left a message with her when I got home about an hour after her voicemails, but she didn't answer. She didn't call back. I called her this morning (Something I do every couple days just to say good morning, etc) and she appologized for not calling me back. She said she was at the gym until late, then just came home and went to bed. She said she just wanted to say hi anyways, so she figured she'd talk to me today. Now my heart wants to beleive this is the truth, but my mind says she was with this person she went on a date with since we've been broken up. I just don't know.

 

I am still so in love with her and this whole thing sucks! I want to spend time with her as she feels comfortable so she can let her guard down and feel again, but i'm stuck between protecting myself and wanting to show her how much I f%$*ing love her.

 

Is it a lost cause? Will she ever realize that we had something special and that I have made significant changes in my life when it comes to relationships and communication?