loss piled on top of loss

[tuxedo cat]

A couple of days after I ended things with herpes guy the ex who brought me to loveshack called me for the first time in four months. He was the only guy I ever loved. He broke my heart when our relationship ended seven months ago.

 

I had erased his number from my phone so I didn't even recognize it when I answered. We ended up speaking for four hours that night. We were both a bit drunk and in the course of the conversation he told me the following:

 

-He had dated and slept with a couple of girls which I was actually OK with hearing. I also told him a bit about my dating experiences

-This was the really painful part: He told me he has an obsessive crush on some girl in one of his classes who reminds him of a younger version of me. He made it sound as if she has all of the unique things that he liked about me. She isn't even into him and they're not dating but he says he has fallen for her. He went into all this detail about his feelings for her, like how he gets a rush inside when they accidentally make eye contact, and how her big, deep eyes are his "weakness."

-I told him I still love him. He said he loves me very much, misses me a ton and thinks about me every day but doesn't want a relationship with me ever and has no romantic feelings for me left.

 

For the last few days I've been tormented by the things he said. He has been contacting me a lot since then.

 

Finally last night I sent him an email saying I wanted to hold onto our friendship but we both needed to have better boundaries about not getting into so much detail about our feelings for others, at least not this soon. I told him that I'd been hurting because of what he told me about that girl.

 

He responded with a short: "Amazing that things between us could get so complicated after only a few days of talking. I never want to speak to you again." He also said, "You can never be happy for anyone else" as if he expected me to be happy that he was infatuated with some other girl who doesn't even like him?

 

I feel really hurt. I always thought we would stay friends, and he even has said to me since the breakup that our connection as friends is lifelong. I know he's not a great person and I should be happy that he's out of my life, but this still feels like a crushing blow because you can be attached to someone who isn't good for you. Also the random rejection of it just hurts.

 

This has been a tough year for me. The three guys I've been with this year have all jerked me around. I'm struggling to see if I'm somehow attracting the wrong type of person or doing something to trigger bad behavior in others.

 

Maybe I just need to take a break from men.

 

Words of encouragement or advice?

Edited May 7, 2013 by tuxedo cat

[FlyerFan54]

You need to stay FAR away from this guy. He's clearly playing games.

 

Why he would say all of that, and then say he doesn't want anything with you...it's all mind games.

 

Honestly, it's almost downright cruel. Why would you want to continue to be friends with someone who has no consideration for your feelings or well-being?

 

This guy is a total clown. I would do the best you can to ignore him and just move on. He wants nothing more than to just screw with your head.

 

I know you're in a tough spot right now with all the things that have happened with men the past week, but try to hang in there.

[Imajerk17]

I am really sorry to hear of your pain.

 

I couldn't imagine being in his position and telling the girl in yours about a crush. His response to your email shows an extremely selfish person...

 

He isn't worth having in your life.

[tbf]

Ouch. That guy's a piece of work, really selfish.

 

tc, the impression I've gotten about you, is that you put up with a lot of nonsense from these guys. Since you keep giving them chance after chance, do you wonder why they keep taking?

[tuxedo cat]

Ouch. That guy's a piece of work, really selfish.

 

tc, the impression I've gotten about you, is that you put up with a lot of nonsense from these guys. Since you keep giving them chance after chance, do you wonder why they keep taking?

 

I read this last night and have been thinking a lot about it.

 

I agree.

 

What I don't understand is when I finally do assert any kind of boundary, as I did with my ex, they flip out and usually cut me off. Is it that I wait too long and as a result they get entitled and they feel shocked when I do draw a line?

[Emilia]

What I don't understand is when I finally do assert any kind of boundary, as I did with my ex, they flip out and usually cut me off. Is it that I wait too long and as a result they get entitled and they feel shocked when I do draw a line?

It's because these men sense your weaker boundaries and that's what they prefer. Stronger boundaries are no use to them.

[SmokeRat]

Total mind games.

 

You set boundries and he bails. He did that since you've taken some power away from him, you've put yourself in a position equal to his, and he doesn't like it.

 

Listen, had you not set up those boundries and told him, what works best for you, I can promise you he'd be dicking around with your head for as long as he needed the ego boost.

 

I'm sorry that you've had the misfortune of meeting the lower cast of the male sex. They give us decent males a very bad name, and we'd very much like to draw and quarter all of them, Braveheart style.

 

Leave this clown, and find someone who will appreciate your beauty, love and personality. He'll come around, we just hide really well because of your evil female counterparts and their stabby stabby through the heart shtick.

[RedRobin]

I read this last night and have been thinking a lot about it.

 

I agree.

 

What I don't understand is when I finally do assert any kind of boundary, as I did with my ex, they flip out and usually cut me off. Is it that I wait too long and as a result they get entitled and they feel shocked when I do draw a line?

 

It is part of the 'dance' that abusers do.

 

Both of the 'men' you described are abusers....

 

Yes, they cut you off.... but they come back when they need a fix and a boost to their ego.... and you start the whole cycle with them again.

 

...and fyi... don't delete old numbers... You need to know who to ignore so that you aren't tempted to start the cycle all over again.

 

You need to grow some 'b*tch' balls to deal with these guys... It's ok to be not nice. Stop caring if they 'cut you off'... instead be relieved and happy you don't have to deal with their drama and nonsense. Their behavior is not going to change.

[tbf]

It's because these men sense your weaker boundaries and that's what they prefer. Stronger boundaries are no use to them.

This and possibly a bit of over-reaction on your part. The more people are unwilling to assert boundaries in the initial phase, the more resentment builds within them. When they finally assert themselves, it can come across in a manner that's too strong and also, about issues that when taken individually, would normally be non-issues. So suddenly, you appear irrational to them since you're enforcing something that was allowed in the past.

[Treasa]

Sweets, these aren't losses. They're opportunities to learn and grow from. It took me a hell of a long time to stop picking the same loser *******s, but I finally did it. I don't consider any of those men to be "losses" (although I wouldn't mind terribly if they were "lost" at sea) because I know I'm the prize.

 

The problem isn't with these guys, as you know. It will take a lot of intensive, continued work to heal what's hurting inside you. I've been doing it very consciously for over six months now, and I still have to do it every single day. Catch those negative thoughts before they become emotions. Look at things from other angles than what I've been used to.

 

And now you have to as well, unless you want this pattern to continue.

[tuxedo cat]

This guy on drugs or medication? Wow.

I would have just stopped talking to him. He needs to respect and be sensitive.

 

No, but he told me he is worried he is becoming an alcoholic and that he gets drunk alone in his apartment 3 times a week.

[tuxedo cat]

This and possibly a bit of over-reaction on your part. The more people are unwilling to assert boundaries in the initial phase, the more resentment builds within them. When they finally assert themselves, it can come across in a manner that's too strong and also, about issues that when taken individually, would normally be non-issues. So suddenly, you appear irrational to them since you're enforcing something that was allowed in the past.

 

That's a good point. This is what I think happened with herpes guy. The final straw came when he hadn't responded to one of my texts in 24 hours, leaving me hanging about whether we were meeting the following morning. He had been doing this to me a lot but I had only spoken up once before and this was the most extreme case. I lost it and sent him a message telling him I was wondering what was going on and asking if he wanted to see me anymore. He cited this as one of the reasons for wanting to cool off, since he said he couldn't be in a relationship where he always has to show someone that he likes them. My reaction was extreme but it had been building up for several weeks of frustration.

 

I've heard people say that selfish/narcissistic men like weak women but I don't think that's actually the case. I think they prefer to be with women who have strong boundaries but those women don't put up with them. When I've enforced my boundaries at the beginning of a relationship with guys like this, they respond respectfully and seem to even value me more. My pattern is that I'll draw a line the first time a bad behavior happens but then I go back to being warm to them too soon and the behavior keeps repeating itself. From the second time on I let it slide until I eventually break down.

[justin1988]

That really sucks. My ex and I just started texting a little bit again after 7 months. The conversations are very light and small talkish but even that is hard for me because I still care about her and am still getting over the breakup. (I don't want to seem immature or come off as a jerk so I just keep being distant and friendly.) I can only imagine how hard actually speaking to your ex and talking about the content you described must be. If he was any kind of decent guy he would keep his new romances to himself. My ex is decent enough that she doesn't mention her new bf (thank god). When I read your original post it almost sounded like he had called to share all that with you almost to intentionally hurt you and on behalf of all the even half decent guys out there I apologize for him being a jerk. You were totally within your rights telling him what you did about still wanting to be friends but needing those boundaries. If he was worth anything and was seriously oblivious that flaunting his crush and new dating experiences would hurt you he would have apologized for saying what he did and respect your boundaries. You seem really sweet and unfortunately its the sweet people in the world that get hurt the worst and the most often. It might not be the worst thing in the world for you to get a bit mad and bitter about this instead of just feeling hurt. Building up a thicker skin will save you a lot of hurt throughout life. Just don't lose the sweet person you are and totally give up on us guys. Some of us are actually pretty decent.

[tuxedo cat]

That really sucks. My ex and I just started texting a little bit again after 7 months. The conversations are very light and small talkish but even that is hard for me because I still care about her and am still getting over the breakup. (I don't want to seem immature or come off as a jerk so I just keep being distant and friendly.) I can only imagine how hard actually speaking to your ex and talking about the content you described must be. If he was any kind of decent guy he would keep his new romances to himself. My ex is decent enough that she doesn't mention her new bf (thank god). When I read your original post it almost sounded like he had called to share all that with you almost to intentionally hurt you and on behalf of all the even half decent guys out there I apologize for him being a jerk. You were totally within your rights telling him what you did about still wanting to be friends but needing those boundaries. If he was worth anything and was seriously oblivious that flaunting his crush and new dating experiences would hurt you he would have apologized for saying what he did and respect your boundaries. You seem really sweet and unfortunately its the sweet people in the world that get hurt the worst and the most often. It might not be the worst thing in the world for you to get a bit mad and bitter about this instead of just feeling hurt. Building up a thicker skin will save you a lot of hurt throughout life. Just don't lose the sweet person you are and totally give up on us guys. Some of us are actually pretty decent.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

To be fair we were both talking about our dating experiences but neither of us had gone into much detail. I was doing OK.

 

Then he said to me, "There is something else that has been eating away at me, making me really depressed, but maybe I shouldn't tell you..." Of course I said, "no tell me." He said, "No, you'll just get upset probably." I said "just finish telling me" and that's when he went into all this excessive detail about his crush. Then later when I told him I was upset he said, "but you made me tell you."

[tuxedo cat]

I know at least half of the problem is my doormat behavior but I am also choosing poor mates.

 

The only things I know that I go for are intelligence and charm. I'm definitely put off by people who are rude and crass. All of the guys I've dated have been polite with strangers and present well socially for the most part. People like them when they first meet them.

 

It just makes me feel sort of crazy since these aren't guys you would really expect to be selfish.

Edited May 7, 2013 by tuxedo cat

[Eternal Sunshine]

This and possibly a bit of over-reaction on your part. The more people are unwilling to assert boundaries in the initial phase, the more resentment builds within them. When they finally assert themselves, it can come across in a manner that's too strong and also, about issues that when taken individually, would normally be non-issues. So suddenly, you appear irrational to them since you're enforcing something that was allowed in the past.

 

I completely agree with this. It's what I do as well: bottle up and then explode over something relatively minor. I have lost friends that way and men have seen me as irrational.

 

I can tell you though TC that men that truly care will work with you on this. My mum is even a more extreme version and my dad has just seen it as a cute personality quirk. So these men that find it "unforgivable" are already half way out of the door.

[anna121]

Only have read the first post.

 

What. A. Jerkwad.

 

Holy crap.

 

Now to be clear - I'm referring to his reaction to your revealing that what he said hurt you.

 

Telling you about his feelings - well, unfortunately that's part of the risk you take when you get into FOUR-HOUR convos with the guy who broke your heart!!!

 

(Unless he's calling to grovel his way back into your good graces.)

 

Take this as a hard lesson learned.

 

PLEASE.

[tuxedo cat]

So the ex I wrote this thread about called me at 2 am this morning, jolting me out of my sleep. When I heard the phone ring I thought it was my alarm clock and foggily thought to myself, "it's morning already??" I looked at the phone and saw his number, which I recognized this time. I answered. I don't know why. He said, "TC I wasn't saying I never wanted to speak again just that blahblahblah." Actually that's exactly what he said; I have it in writing. He told me he wanted me to watch a music video that he liked RIGHT NOW and that was why he called. I said to him I need to go back to bed and hung up.

 

Lol.

[Janesays]

-This was the really painful part: He told me he has an obsessive crush on some girl in one of his classes who reminds him of a younger version of me. He made it sound as if she has all of the unique things that he liked about me. She isn't even into him and they're not dating but he says he has fallen for her. He went into all this detail about his feelings for her, like how he gets a rush inside when they accidentally make eye contact, and how her big, deep eyes are his "weakness."

 

Before he even got 3 sentences in, your other lined should have 'clicked' with a very important call that you just HAVE to take and you should have promised to call him back later. (When hell froze over)

 

Instead, after USING YOU as an emotional dumping ground, you....

 

-I told him I still love him. He said he loves me very much, misses me a ton and thinks about me every day but doesn't want a relationship with me ever and has no romantic feelings for me left.

 

Do you hear that crash? That was your self respect flying out the window.

[Els]

 

Finally last night I sent him an email saying I wanted to hold onto our friendship but we both needed to have better boundaries about not getting into so much detail about our feelings for others, at least not this soon.

 

I honestly think this was a really, really, REALLY awful idea.

 

The first drunk call? Eh, okay, I guess... we all have our weaknesses.

 

Telling him you want to stay friends after he went into great detail about a crush he had on another girl, who was a 'younger' version of you? Horrible idea right there. That's the exact thing that 'friendzoned' people do and then think they're being nice by doing it, when they're really just letting the other person step all over them.

 

The first loss was not your fault, but the second... I'm sorry to say, but it's all on you, girl. If this had been a R of a few years or even several months, I could understand the feeling of needing to maintain contact. But this guy wasn't even really in a R with you yet. Don't give someone your heart until they've proven they're worthy of it. Being intelligent/charming is not anywhere near sufficient proof. First appearances don't always tell you much of what you really need to know about a person - as you can see, plenty of 'intelligent/charming' guys are really huge dickwads inside.

 

Get to know someone before you invest yourself this deeply.

 

Edit: Wait, this isn't 'herpes' guy? How long were you with this guy? Sorry, I'm a bit muddled.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Elswyth

[pyramid]

Ok TC I have a book recommendation for you. "Why Men Love B!tches: From Doormat to Dreamgirl - A Woman's Guide to Holding Her Own in a Relationship"

 

Like you... I let guys get away with more than I should, and I end up being the one who gets hurt. I am the queen of rationalizing! Anyway, this is a good book. I need to read it again actually

[tuxedo cat]

I honestly think this was a really, really, REALLY awful idea.

 

The first drunk call? Eh, okay, I guess... we all have our weaknesses.

 

Telling him you want to stay friends after he went into great detail about a crush he had on another girl, who was a 'younger' version of you? Horrible idea right there. That's the exact thing that 'friendzoned' people do and then think they're being nice by doing it, when they're really just letting the other person step all over them.

 

The first loss was not your fault, but the second... I'm sorry to say, but it's all on you, girl. If this had been a R of a few years or even several months, I could understand the feeling of needing to maintain contact. But this guy wasn't even really in a R with you yet. Don't give someone your heart until they've proven they're worthy of it. Being intelligent/charming is not anywhere near sufficient proof. First appearances don't always tell you much of what you really need to know about a person - as you can see, plenty of 'intelligent/charming' guys are really huge dickwads inside.

 

Get to know someone before you invest yourself this deeply.

 

Edit: Wait, this isn't 'herpes' guy? How long were you with this guy? Sorry, I'm a bit muddled.

 

No this is a guy I was with for close to two years. Know I have things to work on but I'm not THAT much of an idiot.

Edited May 8, 2013 by tuxedo cat

[tuxedo cat]

Before he even got 3 sentences in, your other lined should have 'clicked' with a very important call that you just HAVE to take and you should have promised to call him back later. (When hell froze over)

 

Instead, after USING YOU as an emotional dumping ground, you....

 

 

 

Do you hear that crash? That was your self respect flying out the window.

 

Trust me, I know. I blame drunkenness but that's really no excuse. I feel a bit better after essentially hanging up on him last night.

[ChessPieceFace]

He's made it clear he's not interested anymore. You're just torturing yourself by having this guy in your life. You think it's better that at least he's still in your life, but it's not. You'll heal faster once you go NC and move on.

[tuxedo cat]

He's made it clear he's not interested anymore. You're just torturing yourself by having this guy in your life. You think it's better that at least he's still in your life, but it's not. You'll heal faster once you go NC and move on.

 

Why do you think he keeps contacting me? I never initiate.