Should my girlfriends past and views on sex raise a red flag?

[02yoyo]

Hello,

I've been dating a great girl for about 3 months now. We've known each other for a few years and dated a little here and there but until recently I was always reluctant to take it any further. She was really interested in taking it further and kept asking me out, etc so I finally gave it a shot. I am intensely attracted to her and we enjoy many of the the same activities. Every thing is great except for her views on sex an nudity. She is very casual about nudity especially.

 

Her father died when she was in her early teens and she moved in with her mother who was by no means a good role model (not that her father was much better). The reason I mention this is because I think part her personality is a result of not really having someone with a good head on their shoulders as a role model. She is very honest and trustworthy and despite not having positive relationships with her parents has developed into a wonderful person who is kind, thoughtful and responsible.

 

She is and always has been a very attractive woman and has always had plenty of attention from men and enjoys this attention. She has only male friends with the exception of her two sisters. One of these friends is 25 years her senior. He is a really nice guy who is married and I have spent time with he and his wife. To her he is probably the most positive male role model she has had in her life and their relationship is important to her which I understand and have no intention of trying to stop. They met when she was 23 and he was in his early 50's. They have been friends for about 10 years. My issue with this relationship is he has always shown sexual interest in her and still comments on her looks around me and his wife. She has been topless around him numerous times over the years in his hot tub and possibly other places. I have questioned her about their relationship because I need to understand it to be able to accept it.

 

The most recent episode of nudity was a few months before we started dating seriously. His wife had recently had surgery and he wanted someone to get in the hot tub with. She went over and got in with just her bikini bottoms on while he was completely naked. His wife was home and was aware of it all. To me this is extremely inappropriate as he is obviously getting his motor running seeing her nude and I think she enjoys this as well. I do not think there has ever been any sexual contact between them but this still makes me uncomfortable as this has happened numerous times in their friendship. I explained my feelings about this and she agreed that is was a little weird and now we are dating and knowing my feelings she would not do it again.

 

This casual nudity among "friends" (male of course) seems to be a common theme from her past. She seems to have no problem just taking her clothes off with her male friends. I don't think she's had sex with all her male friends because she is very picky and most of the ones I've met are not her type. I'm sure while she was single at various times this nudity led to some sexual relationships though.

 

About two weeks before we started dating seriously she went to a Hookers Ball which she had been going to for the last few years. It's at a hotel and it's pretty trashy in my opinion. Her group of friends, which are all male except for a girlfriend here or there, go every year and of course they love when she goes for obvious reasons. She knew my views on this because we had talked about it in the past before we were seriously dating but friends. After we were dating for a while she tells me she got so drunk at the Hookers Ball she puked on herself and then proceeded to take a shower and then get in the bed naked with one of her male friends. He was not naked, at least I don't think he was. Her friends had rented some rooms and this was the room she was staying in. There were two people in the room when she came out of the shower. She said she got in the bed and passed out, which I do believe. She will not tell me who these two people were.

 

My problem is I would never be OK with my girlfriend/wife being so casual about nudity. In my opinion when I am in a serious relationship her body is for my eyes only and I hate the thought of her letting pretty much anyone who happens to be in the right place at the right time freedom to see her. To me it's like passing out her body as party favor. I know this is all in the past but it bothers me that she could act this way at any point in her life.

Even though this is in the past I have to run into people who have seen her topless in the past. Her brother in law used to have parties before he married her sister and my girlfriend and her two sister would go skinny dipping for all to see. Most of these people were his coworkers and I hate to be around them because I know they've seen her topless before.

 

I guess my questions are one, am I being overly judgmental of this behavior in her past? Two, can I get over the feeling that she was a little slutty/trashy in her past and move on to have a healthy relationship?

[moman]

Sounds insecure to me, but only you can decide whether to deal with her or not. Her behavior does not seem extreme to me, at least you didn't write about her hooking up with all these people.

[Trialbyfire]

Since you knew her for years, her attitudes wouldn't have been a secret to you. She didn't hold a gun to your head to have a relationship with her so if you must play the blame-game, blame yourself for being weak.

 

Had I been you, with the reverse holding true for the man, I wouldn't have dated him...period...since his values weren't the type of values I can respect.

 

As you know, you have two choices. You can either split or learn to accept this. Be realistic. Can you accept this of her? She's not going to change.

[sxyNYCcpl]

My problem is I would never be OK with my girlfriend/wife being so casual about nudity. In my opinion when I am in a serious relationship her body is for my eyes only and I hate the thought of her letting pretty much anyone who happens to be in the right place at the right time freedom to see her. To me it's like passing out her body as party favor. I know this is all in the past but it bothers me that she could act this way at any point in her life.

 

I agree with the other posters, you knew what you were getting into. You are either going to have to accept it or move on, if you were successful at getting her to stop, she would ultimately become resentful and there would be a drama bomb.

 

Perhaps I can give you a bit of perspective, though, as my wife and I often recreate nude, and countless thousands have seen both of us in flagrante delecto. It's just skin! We all have it, and though there are variations most of us look mostly the same underneath. There are certainly occasions where it is not appropriate, but outside of that I just don't understand the angst. Too many rules, dude.

 

I guess my questions are one, am I being overly judgmental of this behavior in her past?

 

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

 

Two, can I get over the feeling that she was a little slutty/trashy in her past and move on to have a healthy relationship?

 

Not as long as you believe that nudity is evil.

[You'reasian]

Kick back, relax and enjoy your company with her - don't move too fast or commit too much, take it slowly (relationship-wise).

 

Enjoy your other friends as well, male or female.

 

Be careful about female friends who are as "free" as her as their actions might make her jealous.

[BCCA]

Honestly, doesnt seem like you two are a match. Her being nude in front of others and around others that are nude bothers you, which is perfectly ok for you to disagree with. The problem is, you two are on opposite ends of the spectrum, and youre trying to figure out a way for her to be closer to your end, because youre unwilling to venture toward hers. It doesnt work like that, this is how she is.

 

Also, 'past' seems to refer to everything that happened more than 3 months ago, but thats not really the past. She is the same person, same sexuality, and shes going to do the same stuff - 'hookers ball' and all. I dont think you can handle it.

 

You might just want to keep this one casual.

[donnamaybe]

The one thing that jumped out at me the most was this: Did she consider the wife's feelings when she got in the hot tub half naked with the woman's husband? Especially since the wife just had surgery and wasn't able to join them. Or perhaps the W just doesn't care.

 

Getting drunk and puking on yourself is a little gross though, and rather immature. How old was she when she did this?

[You'reasian]

There's a possibility that your friend and the older guy have been involved and have been in some kind of close relationship. Keep your wits about you - obviously she's comfortable topless around him, she might be comfortable naked around him as well - that's one helluva friendship!!

 

From the older guy's perspective, anyways.

 

If you could switch places with the older guy, how would you feel about having an attractive 30 year old who would come over and get topless in your hot tub with your wife's approval -

 

it doesn't get any sweeter than that!

 

Is his name Mr. Heffner by any chance?

[Trialbyfire]

If the two of you are under the belief that this is a serious relationship and you decide to make it casual, don't use her. I'm guessing she already has enough issues, nvm being used. Let her know the change in status, so she's got the ability to make her own judgements. It sounds like she's been pretty upfront with you, about who she is. You owe her the same courtesy.

[stepka]

You didn't mention what country you're from but I'm guessing the US, b/c we are the most prudish nation really. Her attitudes wouldn't bat an eye in Europe where whole families strip down together and either swim nude or just put their swimsuits on while on the beach. People who are comfortable w/ nudity aren't necessarily slutty, and it sounds like you're trying to sort out which part is slutty and which part is just her being comfortable w/ nudity. You probably shouldn't date her til you figure it out.

[Shock Me Sane]

My problem is I would never be OK with my girlfriend/wife being so casual about nudity. In my opinion when I am in a serious relationship her body is for my eyes only and I hate the thought of her letting pretty much anyone who happens to be in the right place at the right time freedom to see her.

 

I agree with everyone that it's really just a matter of your own conservative views, as it doesn't seem that she's being "slutty." The opinion that her body is for your eyes only might be off-putting to her, as I know it would be to me, since really her body belongs to her. For someone so carefree, such a possessive notion may not be compatible with her lifestyle.

 

Her attitudes wouldn't bat an eye in Europe where whole families strip down together and either swim nude or just put their swimsuits on while on the beach.

 

I was thinking this, too. This wouldn't be very strange at all in many parts of Western Europe. IMO, Americans could definitely benefit by being a little more European in their thinking.

[BubblyPopcorn]

The one thing that jumped out at me the most was this: Did she consider the wife's feelings when she got in the hot tub half naked with the woman's husband? Especially since the wife just had surgery and wasn't able to join them. Or perhaps the W just doesn't care.

 

Getting drunk and puking on yourself is a little gross though, and rather immature. How old was she when she did this?

 

I was thinking the same thing. I’m also trying to envision the wife being so nonchalant in response to a girl, with her ta tas free roaming, jumping into a hot tub with her husband.

 

That would not fly with me one bit.

[Chiron]

One problem with the American view on sexuality is that nudity = sexuality. Nudity in and of it's self is not an indicator of anything. I know several nudists and being naked has nothing to do with sex. My brother and his wife skinny dip in front of friends and family all the time. Due to America's puritan roots we see nudity as a sexual act and "evil" but it's just a naked body. Also much of the social messages we get everyday is that nudity = sex. In advertising sex sells, we call a beautiful woman sexy, which says nothing about thier character. With that said you must look at nudity in context. Given that physically beautiful women get more attention many women base thier worth on how sexy they are. So if she's getting naked to get attention from males then her sense of self worth is external not internal.

Some of what you have written points to this very problem. You assumed that because she went topless in a hottub that her older male friend: "To me this is extremely inappropriate as he is obviously getting his motor running seeing her nude " and . This is an assumption on your part though given social norms probably a safe one. One of my best friends is someone I once slept with. Long, long story short due to the end of a relationship she is living with me. Whlie she doesn't prance in front of me naked I see her from time to time in her underware and while I note to myself that she has a smokin' body and great character I wouldn't sleep with her due to the fact I'm in a relationship. Even IF he thinks of her as sexy that only makes him human. Desire is human and even IF men desire her it takes two to tango. I suspect that if you were in his situation seeing a naked female ( even if in a relationship) would get your motor running? The point here is that some of the problem here is due to your equating nudity with sexuality which you project onto others.

 

You allude to the point that nudity seems to be an attention getting mechanism for her, while we can undestand it given the social morees of our time it's sad that so many women seem to base thier self worth off thier sexual attractiveness to others. You seem like someone who genuinely cares for her and loves her for who she really is. Even IF this is true just because she enjoys the attention it does not necessarily mean she will sleep with any guy that hits on her. I have been hit on by women (even found naked and willing ones in my bed) while in a relationship and I have to admit that I liked the attention, liked the fact I still had something. I didn't sleep with them because I realize that all the nights I've had amazing sexaul encounters didn't = one like of sex with someone I truely care about. Though that doesn't mean I haven't wondered what it might be like, I think that is very human to "think" about it, what you do about it says everything about character. So the question is she able to lay down good bondaries? Has she ever cheated on someone in the past?

 

Now I wouldn't say you're exactly uptight, or making too much of her past. I mean much/all of what you have talked about is when she was single, which says nothing about how she will or won't act in a relationship. When single I have gotten naked with a friend and NOT had sex because we both just needed to feel that and there's time we did have sex. As humans we all have needs for that human touch; for sex even when we know it's not going anywhere. So I wouldn't extrapolate on her in relationship character based on her actions when single.

 

What this boils down to is you don't feel comfortable with overt nudity. So are you making too much of it...no, those are your values and no matter what I or anyone says you have to live with the consequences of your values. I think there IS an opportunity here to get more comfortable with nudity; with your own body. Maybe this relationship can be a vehicle for you to get more comfotable in your own body? Maybe run around your house/apt naked with her? Maybe do some skinny dipping? Despite this you need to also TELL her how you feel. Be real; risk telling her, when you do X it makes me feel Y. Or that I fear that you casualness about being naked in front of your friends might lead to something more. You have to let her know what you need in a relationship and also look at how you might meet her in the middle. If you suppress what you need in a relationship to make it work then you will only end up resenting yourself and her. IF you are yourself and you let her know your needs and she balks then you guys probably aren't meant to be together. Maybe she wants to date you because you are a stand up guy, because you value more than her looks. If you stay in the relationship then you need to love her for who she truely is. And maybe just maybe you can loosen up a bit about nudity, though I agree that there are situations where nudity is appropriate and situations where it is inapproprate, though which is which is really up to the individual.

 

I suspect you were looking for a bit more of a black and white answer though few answers in life are black and white. So I'd summarize what I had to say as:

 

1. Explore your feelings about nudity. Maybe find a middle ground where she can express her nudist self and you can explore the nudist in you? Exploring may also entail I've thought about it and nudity is for my eyes only and that's OK too. My point being maybe she is a call to explore something or maybe just a reiteration of what you need in a relationship. Either way is good.

 

2. Men desiring your woman is par for the coarse when dating a physically beautiful woman. In a way it's a compliment to you. It's all about how she handles it. Does she show you perferance to you or seem more interested in attention from others. If she doesn't make you feel like #1 man in the room you need to move on or I should say you need to tell her what you need to feel loved and if she ignores that MOVE ON!

 

3. Remember the Cupcake analogy; love is like a cupcake. Needs, wants and likes = cupcake, frosting and sprinkles. A GREAT cupcake doesn't need any frosting or sprinkles; if you get all you NEED in a relationship then you don't need much else. The right frosting compliments a great cupcake though it can't cover up a cupcake that sucks! Sprinkles are a tertiary compliment but you can enjoy a good cupcake without them. Maybe take some time and review your past relationships and make a list of needs, wants and likes from past relationships. Then look at your current relationship through that lens, though you need to communicate with your partner your needs wants and likes. Often men and women do not know what the need, want, like and even when they do, they fail to tell thier partner.

 

4. You cannot save her. Be careful of the "redemption of the fallen woman" trap. Often men with charater try to "save" a woman because they love them for who they truely are but until she loves herself for who she truely is then your love is in vain. Although, sometimes the love of a good person can make us realize our own self worth. Sadly, this is rarely true. Only she can save herself. Though, maybe she wants to be with you becuase of this? Maybe I am way off base as I have to acknowledge that I know neither of you. Basically if your needs are not being met move on or go back to being friends. Bottom line, make sure you aren't trying to save her.

 

5. In relationships we all want guarentees, we want to know how will we know if it will last forever...I came to the realization (with the help of a profesional) that there are NO guarentees. You may have an amazing relationship for 10 years and then she takes an unsignaled left turn.... As the bhuddists would say is really you only have today, the past is gone and tomorrow is unborn. We really have control of very little in this world and it "seems" like you are looking for someone to tell you how this will turn out. I'm here to say you need to take chances as you go no where by playing it safe. Maybe you'll get hurt and maybe you'll have an amazing relationship? Which is only 50% up to you, and that is the only thing you have control over. So go be the best BF you can be and look at areas YOU need to grow in and not get distracted by the areas she needs to grow because you have NO control over that. And if you do your best, if you grow and it doesn't work out, then you are that much better a catch for the next woman. If she ends up cheating on you that is a character statement about her, NOT you, though it's F'in' tough not to take it personally.

 

All in all I feel for ya, but all I have to say is trust your gut, risk being yourself, and grow whenever possible. Life is a journey not a destination.

 

Self-styled and mildly wild,

 

-Chiron

 

P.S. Email me if you want to talk more.

[carhill]

Helluva first post

 

OP, try to take each day as it is and be clear about what you want and need. What she chooses to give or share with you is her choice and prerogative. You each decide if the R is healthy. Good luck

[dunstable]

I've been on nude beaches in France and Greece where everyone was nude, including children as well as adults. I think it's natural, wholesome, and very pleasant to be naked when sunbathing, swimming, or in the hot tub.

 

There's not necessarily anything sexual about nudity. While some people might get sexual pleasure from nudity, the same people would also get sexual pleasure from seeing people in scanty clothing such as a bikini or a speedo type brief in the case of a man. I don't myself see that a scrap of material makes any real difference.

 

You and she seem to have different tastes about nudity. Doesn't seem you are a good match. You are both entitled to your likes and dislikes but, in my opinion, you need to evaluate whether you are right for each other.

[westernxer]

Great story, troll.