Talking about kids... this early on???

[Els]

First of all, I'm not sure if this makes me weird, but I'm a woman and I cannot stand kids. Not only that, but I'm utterly horrible with them, it's like a fish out of water. It gets to the point where I keep myself as far away from any babies that happen to be in the room as possible... but that's perhaps because of the fact that all my relatives and female friends either think I need to 'learn to be with them', or simply find it funny to drop a squealing baby on me despite my protests and see what I do with it.

 

Now, on to the topic... I've been with this guy for... I dunno when to start counting from, but I suppose 6-8 months would be a good estimate, but we were also good friends before that. We've talked about possibilities of the future in a 'far off' kind of manner, as we both acknowledge that, well, marriage and stuff is going to be a long, long, time from now. Heck, we're both still in college!

 

This probably sounds irrational, but the talk about kids scares me, though. He's pretty sure he wants a family later on, not so soon, but several years after marriage perhaps. And I simply cannot stomach the thought of having one. I've seen enough women either tied down to their home and baby(ies) or struggling to juggle between the baby and career. I cannot stomach the thought of giving up all my free time and peaceful nights' sleep and the freedom to do whatever I want to bring a kid into this world.

 

He knows my stand on this, but has made no signs of budging on his. We did have a (rather irrational?) talk about this which ended up rather emotionally charged, but in the end we both agreed that that bridge was far too far to cross now when we have so many other issues pertaining to the present that we need to tackle, such as how to turn our LDR into an ITR in the near future. Still, he sometimes jokes about that family of (insert random number) that he wants to raise, to which I respond with playful horror.

 

But I cannot help but feel uneasy. Still, isn't it really too early for me to be worrying about this? I'm only 23 and have 1.5 years left in college. We haven't even been together for a year. We won't be living together for the next 1.5 years at LEAST. Even when I type it out it sounds like a 10 year old girl worrying that, perhaps, she shouldn't be spending so much time coloring because she may not be an artist when she grows up and thus she should cut her losses early!

[Shygirl15]

• I think you're very brave to actually admit how terrible you are with kids and how much you dislike them. I genuinely applaud you for being so smart in deciding not having some in future, as we have enough horrible mothers in this world already.
  
• I hope you two will soon realize how different you are in terms of what you want in life, and also realize that it's only fair if you part ways now so that both of you find soulmates who will help you to achieve the goals you have set for yourselves in life.
  

[Viking]

I always find it strange when a woman doesn't want kids. Its always the "I'm a free spirit who doesn't want to be tied down by societal norms..." type. If you don't plan on changing your stance, you better let him go because he'll be pretty disappointed when he finds out that you still haven't changed your mind. You're a waste of his time because of a difference in goals. He wants something traditional and you don't. You might be better off dating an older guy who is still in the "eternal bachelor" phase.

 

Your wants and his wants are very different. Recognize this and act accordingly. If I was dating someone who didn't want kids, I'd scoot on out because someday, I'm going to want to have a family also and wouldn't want to waste my time when I can be finding someone of a similar mindset.

[JamesM]

Rarely do I say this....but here it is....

 

Stop dating now before you both end up getting hurt.

 

You don't like kids and he does. In the mind of anyone who wants children, this is a dealbreaker. Quit now.

 

Having said that...IF there is a possibility that you may change, then continue. But really it is never wise to date on the "what if he or she changes" attitude.

 

I can say that when I dated I really did not want children, and my wife didn't think they were such a big deal. Now that we have a few, our lives are much better, and I like MY kids. I still am not fond of other people's children.

[bean1]

It is perfectly reasonable for him to discuss children (it's not too early on!), for this exact reason. Often people ask that question on the first few dates!

 

If you don't want children, you shouldn't be dating someone who does. It doesn't take long to browse the marriage forum to realize how devestating this issue eventually becomes when one person tries to change their opinion on the subject for the other.

 

Some women don't want children. That's fine. I do, and I think a lot of younger women feel that way until they get a bit older, but that's your choice and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

You can't ignore that issue forever It's a pretty big deal for those who want children. You can choose to wait it out and hope you change your mind (or him change his?) but be realistic, you might just be wasting each other's time.

[Els]

He knows my stand on it. We had one big talk about it, and at the end of it his words were 'Forget about the kids. I realized it doesn't matter'.

 

The thing is, I'm not so sure about my stand as well, to be honest. The earliest he projected himself possibly wanting kids was when he was all set in his career and financial status, which would be 30+. We're both 23 now. 7 years ago I didn't even want a relationship with a guy. How will either of us, both naive undergrads, know what we want 7 years from now?

 

Will I throw away what I have, less than a year into it, for the possibility of disagreement 7 years down the road, IF we manage to resolve all the other issues such as our LDR?

 

I'm so sorry to have been unclear in my initial post, but the answer is no on my part. I was actually seeking advice on whether I should bring this up again with him to make SURE that he's on the same grounds as I am, even though he already said before that it doesn't matter. Or whether I should let it go for now, as he said, and focus on the present issues first. Horses before carts and all that.

 

To be very honest, I am a little like purgatori and a few others on this board, to shamelessly quote names. I am not your typical pretty sweet young thing, who loves shopping, socializing and flits from one date to another in weeks. I have the looks and body of the typical petite Asian female, but I do not dress up, or do any of the manicuring/makeup/hairstyling/etc etc that makes such a difference in looks, no matter how men claim they want 'natural' looks. I simply loathe doing such things and thus would not want to have to maintain them all my life if I 'snare' someone with them. So, the typical man is usually not attracted to me for my looks. It takes a rare man to rate wit, intelligence and personality that far above looks, at least in my age bracket.

 

Also, I do not connect easily with people... and I do not wish to, to be honest. Thus, those whom I do connect with are very, very close to my heart, and we understand each other almost perfectly. No pretense, no compulsion to be socially correct. In 23 years, I've met two people like that, who were also interested in me. Unfortunately the other one turned out to be more interested in his other hobbies.

 

If there are issues 7 years down the road, then we'll work on it. There could be so many other issues when two people are married, that we cannot foresee -- what if we don't agree on how we pay our loans? Surely we do not throw away what we have in anticipation of them.

 

That said, any women (or even men) who've been like me through their teenage years and changed their mindset on children when the biological clock began making itself heard?

 

Also, uh, what are the benefits of having kids, even? Besides the fact that they take care of you when you're old and sick, and your SO has passed away and you've noone else?

 

If I could even think of a few, I figure it wouldn't be impossible for me to change my mind.

 

The biggest problem is that I can't. And neither could he. -_-

[Zorie]

This topic is a deal breaker IMO If you know you don't want children and he does then its best to have a very honest communication about this topic and your future together soon. (never assume, he may change his mind later) or move on. After being with my husband for 9 years I left him because he decided he did not want the responsiblity of raising a family... I wish I had better communications myself of course that was not the only issue but when someone wants children that desire rarely changes.

[Trialbyfire]

He knows my stand on it. We had one big talk about it, and at the end of it his words were 'Forget about the kids. I realized it doesn't matter'.

He's accepting of your want to not have kids and is an adult. You no longer have any responsibility in being concerned about it.

 

I wouldn't break up over this, as long as you're fully aware that this could become a dealbreaker later on in your relationship. You decide if you're willing to risk having your heart broken when or if it becomes a non-negotiable issue.

[Els]

I suppose that when the time comes, if we really have been together for 7 years and everything else is going well, I would consider it. The idea of having family of your own to share things with and guide and nurture isn't that bad, especially in light of needing someone in your very old age. But ugh, how do I get past that revulsion of anything below the age of 7?

[2sure]

While your BF is right (and you are too) that having kids or not is not a huge issue because you are a long way from having to decide, have no solid marriage/future plans, and have not been together for a year...

 

The "kids' conversation is important because it isnt just about kids. The way we feel about children, even other people's children, says a lot about who we are, what kind of person we are, and our values.

 

Those are things it is good to know. Possibly he brought up the conversation for these reasons.

[Els]

It was me who brought it up, actually, after he'd casually mentioned what he'd do with his kids in the future or something. I brought it up to be sure that he knew my stand on the subject, and because I needed to know whether or not he could still accept me, knowing that.

[JamesM]

I suppose that when the time comes, if we really have been together for 7 years and everything else is going well, I would consider it. The idea of having family of your own to share things with and guide and nurture isn't that bad, especially in light of needing someone in your very old age. But ugh, how do I get past that revulsion of anything below the age of 7?

 

Here is the thing...you CAN'T know how you will think in seven years or even less, but you DO know how you feel now. And he (even though he said it is no big deal) feels the opposite.

 

Once you are married for a few years and he wants kids but you don't, this could very well be the thing that breaks your marriage...or one of you will build quite a bit of resentment inside.

 

I can say that my wife did a 180 when she became pregnant. We were not planning on kids for awhile and five years into marriage, SHE said she was ready. Truthfully, I was never ready until a couple of years after the first one was born. (It takes me awhile to adjust, I guess. ) But I never said no to children. I just wanted to wait until I grew up. At 45 I am still waiting to grow up...even though I now have children.

 

NOW guys my age are becoming grandpas!

 

Anyhow, it is not too early to talk about the future and children. In fact, now is the best time.

[Els]

Wow, I just realized that I put a lot of 7s into my post lol!

 

But wouldn't it be silly to break up or even put pressure on something that's just barely unfolding because of something so far away and so foggy? Especially since I'm the one breaking the conventional norms and he's the one who's said that it's okay?

 

Also, could anyone please answer the question regarding WHY people have kids? What's the reason, except that it's supposedly encoded in our genes to want to procreate to maintain our species? Still scratching my head...

[prettybaby]

I don't find his reaction weird. He's been with you for a while now and wants to know if it's worth the effort to invest himself in a long term relationship with you. Maybe he's not even doing it consciously, but look at it this way: you don't wanna talk about it now, but you wanna keep him, yet he has different goals in life and it's clear it won't work out on the long run. You two need to talk about this and figure out where you're going. Either together or not.

[Els]

I don't find his reaction weird. He's been with you for a while now and wants to know if it's worth the effort to invest himself in a long term relationship with you. Maybe he's not even doing it consciously, but look at it this way: you don't wanna talk about it now, but you wanna keep him, yet he has different goals in life and it's clear it won't work out on the long run. You two need to talk about this and figure out where you're going. Either together or not.

 

I hope I don't sound rude, but I don't think you read any of my following posts... they clarify things quite a bit. Perhaps not even the first in it's entirety.

[2sure]

Elswyth-

 

I never baby sat as a teenager. I had no younger siblings. I could count on one hand the number of times I held a baby (like you under protest).

 

I had my daughter at 32. Not planned.

Whew - I cant believe I could have missed this.

 

As to the why?

I had no idea how incomplete I was until I had her. I didnt know I was missing anything. I was happy honest. But now I have happiness, meaning, and completeness.

 

I know it sounds crazy.

But its true. Words are not enough.

[prettybaby]

I hope I don't sound rude, but I don't think you read any of my following posts... they clarify things quite a bit. Perhaps not even the first in it's entirety.

That's right, I hadn't.

I still think it's a deal breaker.

[Els]

Thanks, 2sure, that's an interesting insight. Usually the people I know who say such things about their babies are people who've always wanted them.

 

Why was it so different, can you explain it? Did it make it worth all the waking up at night, all the hassle and frustration and arguments that it causes between you and your SO (I'm sure such things happen)?

[Els]

That's right, I hadn't.

I still think it's a deal breaker.

 

Have you, yet?

 

Edit: Couldn't edit the previous post, so I've to do it here. Sorry, James, I know you said nearly the same thing yourself, although not to such a great level. But I assumed that it was mostly your wife taking care of the kids, the majority of the time at least? I actually suspect that if I was male I'd want kids as well -- I wouldn't need to spend 9 months pregnant, many excruciating hours in labour, many many nights waking up to breastfeed, etc.

[sfsassy]

Wow, I just realized that I put a lot of 7s into my post lol!

 

But wouldn't it be silly to break up or even put pressure on something that's just barely unfolding because of something so far away and so foggy? Especially since I'm the one breaking the conventional norms and he's the one who's said that it's okay?

 

Also, could anyone please answer the question regarding WHY people have kids? What's the reason, except that it's supposedly encoded in our genes to want to procreate to maintain our species? Still scratching my head...

Well for me I don't have kids, but I have a strong maternal instinct, and I do feel I can teach kids a lot in terms of values. Also they are just fun. I have a MUCH younger brother annd sister and it has been really cool seeing their personalities develop. And I actually like their young innocence, and the fact that they still have so much to learn.

[blind_otter]

But wouldn't it be silly to break up or even put pressure on something that's just barely unfolding because of something so far away and so foggy? Especially since I'm the one breaking the conventional norms and he's the one who's said that it's okay?

 

I don't think it's silly at all. Children are a huge, huge issue. It would be tragic and extremely painful to be in a relationship with someone for 7 years, and then finally confront the fact that one wants children and the other doesn't. It would be horribly tragic and painful to have to break up at that point...that happened to my friend, actually (though she and her exH had other issues, to be sure). She was with him for 7 years, and he was dead set against having kids.

 

She secretly wanted to have a child, but forced herself to ignore this issue. Then she hit 28 and realized that she could not hide it anymore. They pushed and pulled and ultimately parted ways but it was horrible to watch both of them go through that breakup. She is now dating again and she always wants to know whether the guys she dates want to have kids immediately.

 

Also, could anyone please answer the question regarding WHY people have kids? What's the reason, except that it's supposedly encoded in our genes to want to procreate to maintain our species? Still scratching my head...

 

Most people who have children do so for very personal reasons. I cannot venture to guess what everyone else's rationale was.

 

To me, being a mother is the most important job in the world. You have the responsibility of helping to create what could be a great person. It's an awesome responsibility, and one of the absolutely most challenging experiences of my life. My son shows me things about myself that I never knew. I did not know how to love unconditionally until I had him; I didn't know I could give of myself so freely and without constraints. He changed my life in so many ways. I know all of this sounds so cliche, but I cannot appropriately express what motherhood has done for me. It is a deeply emotional, spiritual, educationally challenging experience, though, that is for sure.

 

Edit: I did not always want to have children.

[Els]

To be honest, I don't know for sure if I actually really want them or not. The main reason I don't, for now, is because I can't figure out what would possibly counterbalance all the sacrifices one would need to make. And I'm afraid that I'll never get over my awkwardness with children and I'll be a horrible mother. And also that I hate, more than anything, being woken up in the middle of the night perhaps.

 

I know that there are many couples who've broken up over different opinions on having children. However, I also know that there are many who break up BECAUSE of the stress that having children had on their lives and thus their relationship. I'm afraid of that happening, it's one of my reasons.

 

B_O, when did you change your mind? Before you had your first child or after?

[JamesM]

 

Edit: Couldn't edit the previous post, so I've to do it here. Sorry, James, I know you said nearly the same thing yourself, although not to such a great level. But I assumed that it was mostly your wife taking care of the kids, the majority of the time at least? I actually suspect that if I was male I'd want kids as well -- I wouldn't need to spend 9 months pregnant, many excruciating hours in labour, many many nights waking up to breastfeed, etc.

 

Actually, you would be wrong.

 

She does not take care of the kids the majority of the time now. When they were younger, she did during the day, and when I came home then I did. Now that they are in school and she has a part time night job, then I am the one who does much of the parenting. In fact, every night of the week, I put them to bed. Half or more of the nights of the week, I make supper. I take them to school and get them up in the morning.

 

When they were babies, I was up many times during the night. Yes, she breast fed a couple, but the others were bottle fed. and it is a joke in our family that whenever any child has vomited, it is always me who is home alone with them or it is me that gets up to clean up the mess. I can say that I was an expert on changing diapers.

 

So...yes, she has put in her fair share without a doubt, but as a father, I can say (without bragging) that I have put more than the normal share of a father.

 

Interestingly enough, she has always been the one who finds parenting more enjoyable than work. She is the one who WANTS to take them shopping even though it is more work for her. She is the one who wanted more children even though it will be more work for her.

 

No, this male did not look at having children as less work. He thought mostly of how each child adds MORE work. He looked at the fact that his wife would once again be pregnant and grumpy and in pain. It also meant that there was a risk again that she could die during labor or a baby could be still born and cause her greater depression. It has been my wife who has enjoyed each and every one the most...even when they were colicky or when they were on 24/7 monitors or they needed surgery or they... Whatever it has been, she has enjoyed it more than me.

 

Most males I know don't look at children as something that requires little work. If anything, they look at more children as meaning less time they get with the wife alone.

 

You have a guy who knows he wants children. Most women would be ecstatic with such a guy.

[blind_otter]

To be honest, I don't know for sure if I actually really want them or not. The main reason I don't, for now, is because I can't figure out what would possibly counterbalance all the sacrifices one would need to make. And I'm afraid that I'll never get over my awkwardness with children and I'll be a horrible mother. And also that I hate, more than anything, being woken up in the middle of the night perhaps.

 

FWIW, I was never all that good with other people's children (besides those directly related to me). Now that I have experience with my own, I am much better with them, but still a bit hands off because different parents can have very different parenting philosophies. Don't want to step on toes or anything.

 

B_O, when did you change your mind? Before you had your first child or after?

 

Before. I was afraid I would be a horrible mother because I had some really bad experiences in life and had a lot of emotional baggage. I had some life changing experiences, one of the most important being my Dad's long illness (lung cancer) and death after 14 months of a lot of physical pain. I think it was maybe the fact that I realized how much I loved my Dad, and I stopped thinking of children as little stinky, oozing aliens that I could not relate to.

[2sure]

Elswyth-

 

I had a million reasons for not wanting children. But for me, the real reason beneath them all was that I did not think I would be a good mother. If my daughter had not been an accident, its possible I would not have had children at all. But you know, after I had her - the rest of the million reasons I had were not even a thought. Not the inconvenience or even the money. While those things are important and must be considered...there comes a time in your life when they are coupled with other priorities.

 

You are not yet the person you will be. I will say that people who seriously question whether they could handle parenthood or not, and have doubts (like you)...make the best parents in the end.

 

Parenting is humbling.