He constantly makes jokes about women being bitchy, demanding, etc.

[BlueHaiku]

My BF constantly makes jokes about women being demanding or clingy or pushy or bitchy.

 

This really hurts me. Am I crazy?

 

He says he doesn't do it to hurt me. He says he just finds those jokes funny and doesn't understand why I get upset by them.

 

I feel disrespected, belittled, and humiliated when he makes these jokes. He says he doesn't understand why. He says "I don't mean YOU - YOU aren't those things." So he doesn't understand why I get so upset.

 

I just don't know how to explain it! I tell him, "well, I'm a woman, so when you say 'women are X,' it includes me." He says I should know he doesn't mean me.

 

Sometimes he makes these jokes in front of his son, an elementary school kid. I just die inside every time he does that. I can't say anything back to him because I don't want to start a fight in front of the boy. And I just feel he's teaching his boy to disrespect women, too.

 

I've told him how it's expecially humiliating in front of his son, and because he's going to teach him that disrespect. Problem is, my BF *just doesn't understand this idea of it being disrespectful.*

 

My BF says he'll work on not saying it so much (and from past experience I know he will, for a while, before he forgets and slips into it again). But he still doesn't *understand* why it's a problem.

 

It really bothers me that he doesn't get it - can anyone help with a way to try to explain it to him that he might actually get? I've actually thought about turning the tables and making jokes about his ethnicity... but I just can't do it - it's just too disturbing to me to even do it to make a point.

 

BlueHaiku

[bejshermanoaks]

let it go--if it isnt worth breaking up over, it isnt worth fighting over. When you arent fighting, when he and you are in good moods and loving, bring it up one more time and tell him how it hurts you. Dont say too much, just bullet points, brief and that it hurts. Then, let it go--if it doesnt change, you have two choices, break up or stay..i personally wouldnt break up over it--there are worse traits out there than his childishness--consider yourself somewhat lucky on the issue scale

[Kiss Dont Miss]

BlueHaiku, a lot of men make such jokes, unfortunately. The only thing coming up to my mind is that you should also dig up several jokes about men, beer, and cars. And don't take such jokes to your heart. I know, it's not pleasant, it's humilating, but this can be a way of people having fun (they don't suspect gender jokes CAN hurt feelings).

 

Wish you great relationship!

 

KissdontMiss

 

P. S. Have laugh!

 

http://www.jokesaboutmen.net/men_joke_six.html

[BlueHaiku]

Ok I found a joke on that website that seems to fit my situation:

 

Men are like Government Bonds.

They take way too long to mature.

 

Why can't they grow up and have the good sense to at least not tell those jokes around their GFs!?!

[Tyra]

let it go--if it isnt worth breaking up over, it isnt worth fighting over. When you arent fighting, when he and you are in good moods and loving, bring it up one more time and tell him how it hurts you. Dont say too much, just bullet points, brief and that it hurts. Then, let it go--if it doesnt change, you have two choices, break up or stay..i personally wouldnt break up over it--there are worse traits out there than his childishness--consider yourself somewhat lucky on the issue scale

 

I truly agree. Although you may be a woman, he isn't referring the jokes to you. Otherwise, the two of you wouldn't be together. So just relax.

[melodymatters]

I don't consider myself over sensitive, and try to avoid drama in relationships at all costs, but i WOULD be worried that this shows a demeaning disregard for woman in general : your sisters, daughters, girlfriends. etc.

 

I had a guy who talked like this and he wasn't a very warm, loving person and had issues with his mother.

 

I wouldn't make this a make or beak deal, but i WOULD keep my eyes open. Is he controlling in any way ? ( doesn't want you to hang out with your GF's because they are " sluts" or a bad influence ?)

[BlueHaiku]

I'm listening real hard to Bej, Kiss, and Tyra. I'm trying! It's real hard though. I was brought up in a family and amongst people (men and women) who were always very warm and polite and would do anything before offending anyone. So it's just a really different world view and hard for me to take. I guess I'm a combination of your classic "nice girl" and "educated woman."

 

I should also point out that we're not fighting about this. I'm very grounded and discuss things calmly when I have an issue (see above, my upbringing). The reason for my post is because it is concerning me to the point where it might damage the relationship.

 

Melody's perspective is more my own. It troubles me because it suggests an essential lack of respect for women, and also (because of my upbringing) a lack of empathy/respect for other people in general - a lack of concern whether he may be offending others.

 

Melody, he does have issues with his mother, and his ex. At the beginning of our relationship, I chalked the comments up to bitterness over his ex, and maybe some of that is still going on but we've been together a long time now and still... comments.

 

I guess I feel pressure to prove that women aren't like that - but what I'm starting to realize is that no matter how un-bitchy and un-demanding I am, he's still going to feel that way about "women."

 

I'm also horrified at the thought that he might make some of these jokes/comments in front of my friends and/or family. All my friends and coworkers (male and female) are of a similar "polite" world to the one I grew up in, and I think they'd think I'd lost my rocker if they ever heard this stuff.

 

He's not controling though. Opinionated and vocal, yes. Controling, no. As for warm and loving... well... that's a bit of a can of worms too. He clearly has committment issues, but also clearly has a great need to have someone. Clingy but doesn't want to make any verbal committment.

 

Oi!

[dreamergrl]

I'm riding the fence on this one. I think it depends on how crude the jokes are. It's also not necessary to have to make these jokes all the time.

 

Some jokes are probably best to just be looked past, but if something comes out that truly bothers you, let him know. Otherwise, next time he makes a joke about nagging women, simply reply "We wouldn't nag if we didn't have to hear all that bullsh*t out of your mouth".

 

I do completely agree he should watch what he says in front of his son. If he says that crap enough, he's son is going to start repeating it in front of his classmates and teachers...

[serial muse]

Well, it would bother me too, to be honest. And the main reason is that I don't think the argument "but I don't mean you" is...reassuring. Because, to me, that would only last as long as being in his good graces.

 

I just think that a history of basic respect for people is a lot more reassuring in the long run than "you're the one woman in a gazillion who I respect." And his son isn't going to understand those distinctions at all. He'll just hear the "women are bitchy" part.

 

I think you are VERY wise to recognize that no matter how hard you try to prove that "women" aren't like that, it won't convince him, and you'll only frustrate yourself. If he's going to think that "most" women are "x," he's going to think it. Only he can choose to see things in a less prejudiced way. So rather than knock yourself out to help him see things differently, just continue to be the obviously reasonable, level-headed person that you are.

 

But think about this: he may not be "controlling," in the sense that he tells you what to think or do. But those kinds of "all women but you" comments can put you in a position where you find yourself constantly walking on eggshells, moderating your behavior in myriad ways out of fears that you'll be somehow reinforcing his negative ideas of women. And that is another way for him to be controlling. So please be careful not to change yourself.

Edited March 24, 2008 by serial muse

[Green]

so go ahead break up with a guy you like because he is going to embaress you and non stop annoy you with his built in bias to women.

[serial muse]

so go ahead break up with a guy you like because he is going to embaress you and non stop annoy you with his built in bias to women.

 

Well, despite the sarcasm, KMT, if it's something that has really been hurting her but he's brushing it off, then yeah, I think she should take that into account. Wouldn't you, if a GF made systematic rude comments that bugged you and ignored your requests to stop?

[shanny]

I wouldn't worry about it too much... just like some guys will never stop telling jokes about farts... although his thing is women. He is apparently cracking himself up, so let him do it. The only thing is that depending on how serious it is, it could give his son less respect for women growing up. That would be something to talk about with him.

 

If it makes you feel better, make some man jokes. Man jokes are much funnier anyway!!!

[Walk]

Those "jokes" hurt, even if he says he's not talking about you.

 

My bf used to make jokes like that, and every single time I'd try to let it go and pretend it didn't bother me. But I'm not a very good liar, and I'm really not convincing when I do it. So.... then we'd get in arguments because he'd say I shouldn't be offended because he wasn't talking about me but women in general, and I couldn't NOT react in some way.

 

What stopped the bad jokes was explaining to him that it didn't matter if he said it didn't include me, because I am a woman, and by proxy it includes me. I owned my feelings about this, and let him know that he could make any jokes he wanted, but that I felt hurt by those jokes. And I felt that his response of "I wasn't including you in with them" was dismissing MY feelings on the matter. I stood my ground on that. Letting him know that whether he felt they were harmless or not didn't change how I felt, and he could accept responsibilty for his actions or not. But that I didn't want to be with someone who could so easily brush aside my feelings.

 

Because ultimately, it wasn't the jokes that bothered me as much as his ability to dismiss my feelings with what I felt was a lame excuse to say bad things.

 

Anyway, my bf still jokes about women, but he does so in a different way now. And if he makes a comment that upsets me, he's willing to discuss what upset me and he tries to understand my point of view. Which allows him to stay away from 'jokes' that would unintentionally cause me pain. And I don't feel dismissed anymore, and when I'm not feeling dismissed he gets the best me I can be for him. Or he can choose to deal with the surly, pissy me who's passive agressive. I leave it up to him to decide.

[Woggle]

If a man doesn't feel that way about women he isn't paying attention the world around him. If he doesn't mean you I wouldn't be offended.

[nicki]

If his core beliefs about women are messed up, then I can understand your worry. Maybe you are trying to figure out what his core beliefs actually are?

 

Now, if he has a good attitude toward women and jokes once in a while about women in general, then I'd laugh it off. My boyfriend will often joke that women drivers on the phone are the worst, but I know his heart is good.

 

So, I'll joke back that they are probably on the phone yelling at their clueless husbands who are lost somewhere and won't stop and ask for help! And we have a good laugh.

 

When my ex husband used to joke about women, however, he did it because he had a deep seated control problem with women and wanted to put us all down. So it bothered me a lot. It reinforced my fears about his bad attitude.

 

Guess it goes to intention. I'm with Walk, he should be responsive to your feelings about it. That should be enough for him to stop, regardless of his intentions.

 

Don't laugh at his jokes, or next time he does it, simply say you've heard men with small penises often tell jokes that put down women because they feel so emasculated....ha ha....laugh and say you didn't mean him, of course! (sorry, guess that's mean. )