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Old 9th March 2019, 7:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by whichwayisup View Post
Best way to end a friendship with an N is to just quietly disappear, especially if they are nasty.
This is what I've noticed about my ex. No long term friends whatsoever. She easily makes new friends, but within 18 -24 moths there's a complete roll-over. No one ever sticks around.

She has an endless list of "contacts" or "acquaintances" but no close or life long friends. Even family relationships are quite shallow, and there's lots of long standing feuds.

In her affairs (infidelity) each of the men was "used" or exploited in some way - large sums of money, exorbitant gifts, job perks, or stolen territory/clients, etc. Then dumped unceremoniously for the next.

Last edited by Turning point; 9th March 2019 at 7:52 PM..
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Old 9th March 2019, 8:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ronni_W View Post
So, I sort of see it as the 'responsibility' (for lack of a better word coming to mind) of the educated or more knowledgeable, to stay alert to try to ensure proper understanding, which, to me, necessarily includes proper or generally-accepted definitions and use of terminology (to help everyone be on as much of the 'same page' as possible, when talking about improvements and potential solutions).
I guess that's where we differ. I don't feel I have any moral authority over someone else's story. All I can offer is my own experience and personal interpretation, not a hard core truth, on an anonymous forum where we are all 'peers'.

It doesn't mean all posters use it judiciously, but rather than dismissing their story altogether, why not take each post on its own merit instead of jumping at their throat and assume the worst every time the word 'narcissism' is mentioned?
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Old 10th March 2019, 12:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by littleblackheart View Post
I don't feel I have any moral authority over someone else's story.
I agree; if that's what it sounded like I was saying, then my apologies.
I don't think that anybody on Earth has moral (or spiritual) authority over anyone else. "Know thyself" and then "To thine own self be true".

On the other hand, I don't think that people are minimizing, being dismissive or assuming the worst just because they point out a different/more suitable term, which, IMO,
along with the new thoughts and feelings that the new term might arouse, could actually help someone gain an even clearer picture of their own situation...

...although I wholeheartedly agree that some posters who crusade against this or that can really do to brush-up on their manner of relating; very often they just come across as bitter,
and caustic and abrasive, and, thus, mostly ultimately unhelpful.

Anyhow. Let's hope we hear from OP again, as to whether anything has been of any use for their personal situation.
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Old 10th March 2019, 3:26 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Turning point View Post
Yes, there are a lot of people who throw the term "crazy" around. But people who have suffered the abuse of a true narcissist don't use the word "crazy." We know better.
SO much truth in this.
Turning point and littleblackheart, I'm loving your posts. Finding myself nodding as I read your well thought-out posts.

Sometimes the flying monkeys can do the most damaging things once the **** has hit the fan. The invalidation. The minimisation. The normalising. Whether its well-intended or not, (frankly I have learnt not to even bother caring anymore, because you just end up wasting more energy being understanding about yet another unhelpful contribution to the big mess a narcissist will get you mixed up in, its incredibly hurtful and delays recovery.
My mum is NPD. And yes, an actual one. The amount of times I heard over the years the following:
'But she's the only mum you'll ever get'
'No family is perfect'
'Every mother-daughter dynamic has its issues'
'Our mothers can sometimes be stuck in another generation's headspace and its not their fault'

...All the while I was being hurled abuse at behind closed doors, I was constantly emotionally abused, constantly told how she has been praying for one of her 'whore' daughters to die, and on particularly angry days where her narcissistic injuries were huge, she would go into detail about how she finds it ridiculous and unbelievable that things such as a bus running me over hasn't happened yet.
She'd mock me for absolutely everything. My height was a random one she got stuck on.
To the outside world she was angelic. Talked the talk. But anyone who got too close would get bitten and off they would run again.
When my father was sick on his deathbed abroad, instead of tending to him, she would be charming the pants off the taxi driver trying to drive us to hospital, whilst my father was laid out in the back, with incontinent pad on and in delirium.

And the world to this day keeps presenting me with flying monkeys that repeat the same old crap based on their assumed social expectations:
'But she's your mother!'
'She's had a tough life'

If this is what mothers who have had a tough life are, I'd rather not thank you.

So yeah, flying monkeys can go shove their head in a pile of dung, at this point. Maybe its THOSE people who should take their own advice and not try to speculate 'without real education/qualification' because if they were educated on the matter, they'd know that NPD'ers hardly EVER present to a psychiatrist/psychologists for analysis and diagnosis because they don't think there is anything wrong with them. All those posters who post 'only a qualified professional can diagnose that' - okay, well why don't you go round up all the suspected NPD people and ferry them to the therapists office (good luck with dealing with the horrific narcissistic rage you will incur by even suggesting this, btw). Until then, recognising patterns and identifying where certain repetitive, destructive behaviours fit the bill of 'narcissism' is the best that victims have, and at the very least, let them have it without being quick to jump in, ready to invalidate and normalise and minimalise, the whole drill.

Last edited by Moderator; 10th March 2019 at 7:42 PM.. Reason: quote edited
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Old 10th March 2019, 4:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by pinkpaw View Post
the same old crap based on their assumed social expectations:
'But she's your mother!'
'She's had a tough life'
I'm at the age now where I'm also getting, "But your mom is old and infirm," and, "You 'should be' more understanding and compassionate."
All the while, my 'poor' mom uses her advanced age to play everyone else like a fiddle.

People who don't get it, don't get it.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 11:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by pinkpaw View Post
NPD'ers hardly EVER present to a psychiatrist/psychologists for analysis and diagnosis because they don't think there is anything wrong with them.
What I've learned is to qualify this point. The diagnose-able NPD can't see the dysfunction - that's the person who self destructs. They can't hold a job for long, may have alcohol or substance abuse issues, a long trail of relationship failures, and often have run in's with the law, etc. These people and their drama tend to stand out so, a diagnosis is pointless.

The dangerous NPD is fully aware that what they are doing is unacceptable and they go to great effort to avoid exposure. They may also change jobs quite often to avoid fallout but, will do so with socially acceptable narratives that grease the skids even when false. They are the kind of bomber who leaves the building before the explosion, fully aware of what they are doing, without empathy, and selfish in the most extreme capacity.

Their exploitation is more than a personality trait. It's adapted as a core skill. They are devastating to people in close interpersonal relationships, and know exactly how to enjoin others and even authorities as unwitting flying monkeys.

I have to carry the actual court orders with me because I run into constant school, medical, and other municipal authorities who (like most of us) will substitute their own ideas about social justice for the policies, regulations, and laws that govern their behavior. All of these unwitting flying monkeys are people just like you and me who buy into the confirmation bias of a false tale drawn upon the social narrative and think they are "doing the right thing." They become part of the engine that continues driving the abuse. Other people's propensity to "err on the side of caution" is one of the narcissists greatest weapons.
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Old 8th April 2019, 4:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pinkpaw View Post
Love, love, love this response.
Especially the part about people getting hung up on the use of the word narcissism.

The mainstay of narcissism is exactly that these people lie and dupe and the mask comes off later on yet the person you were responding to seemed to list this in a way as if it is a normal course of events and the change in opinion of a person towards their ex is to be expected?! I've never felt this way when things have ended with a non-narcissist ex. It was just: yeah, this isn't working out.

Sometimes I think the people who go on those hunts to deflect away someone's suspicions of narcissism do that because they like the narcissistic way of doing things...whether its because it suits their needs or simply because they are so used to it, that it is now their definition of 'love' and they don't want the cognitive dissonance.
I had a friendship end on me with someone and it ended badly. I don't see that person as a narcissist. However, I did notice a lot of the habits that narcissists are said to do coming from the ex friend. However, I don't consider her to be that type of person.

One possibility is that she was just trying to get me to walk away and she was afraid to say it outright. As for how she thinks about me, I don't know. (I wouldn't be surprised if she sees me as the psycho of all psychos. LOL!!!
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