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Old 7th March 2019, 4:00 PM   #1
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Narcissist Friend

I've gone no contact with a narcissist who I've known a long time. I outgrew this friendship and started standing up for myself. She didn't like that. Boy, narcs sure do get ugly, don't they?
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Old 7th March 2019, 4:13 PM   #2
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What type of medical professional confirmed the diagnosis as narcissist?
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Old 8th March 2019, 3:22 PM   #3
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I don't have a medical diagnosis but she has been in therapy for a long time. She told me that her therapist has thought her to have a personality disorder. I don't know if it's narcissist or something else but she sure acts like a narc. Checks off a lot of boxes. I don't care what ICD-10 code she falls under, she is just negative, nasty and tries to tear me down, tries to get other people to hate me for no reason, tries to gaslight and tries to turn things around that she has done and make it seem like others have done it. She drinks too much and gets extra nasty when drunk. All good reasons to walk away. But she hates to lose so she will go as far as she can to try and make things miserable in her efforts to not be the bad guy.
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Old 8th March 2019, 4:57 PM   #4
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The reason I asked is that I see the term narcissist thrown around all the time on forums like this. It's funny how we spend a good part of our lives with a person with whom we saw such positive qualities that we decided to enter into a committed exclusive relationship, sometimes having and raising children with them, and then when things crash and burn they're suddenly nutjobs with all sorts of personality disorders and anger issues.


I've come to the conclusion that more often than not, after a breakup we all think our ex's are crazy and they say the same thing about us.
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Old 8th March 2019, 5:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Normm View Post
It's funny how we spend a good part of our lives with a person with whom we saw such positive qualities that we decided to enter into a committed exclusive relationship, sometimes having and raising children with them, and then when things crash and burn they're suddenly nutjobs with all sorts of personality disorders and anger issues.
I hear what you're saying, but some people do lie and present a false image of themselves in order to get into relationships, then reveal their true selves when the ring is on or the friendship is established. They dupe, abuse, manipulate and lie. It happens. I don't know what is gained from dismissing what people say, on a forum where people specifically seek support. Of course there will more instances of that here...


The label doesn't matter, but the behaviour does. Honestly, unless you're a medic or a health professional or unless people go round diagnosing total strangers, fixating on whether or not people use the word 'narcissism' too much is an odd cruisade to pursue. If it makes it easier for you, read 'entitled *******' or ' nasty bytch' instead of narcissist and proceed with your advice.

We all are narcissistic. All of us. Some more than others, that's it. There - 'narcissism' demystified.
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Old 8th March 2019, 9:27 PM   #6
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Best way to end a friendship with an N is to just quietly disappear, especially if they are nasty.

You did the right thing! Getting rid of toxic people in your life is healthier for you!
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Old 8th March 2019, 9:56 PM   #7
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I hear what you're saying, but some people do lie and present a false image of themselves in order to get into relationships, then reveal their true selves when the ring is on or the friendship is established. They dupe, abuse, manipulate and lie. It happens. I don't know what is gained from dismissing what people say, on a forum where people specifically seek support. Of course there will more instances of that here...


The label doesn't matter, but the behaviour does. Honestly, unless you're a medic or a health professional or unless people go round diagnosing total strangers, fixating on whether or not people use the word 'narcissism' too much is an odd cruisade to pursue. If it makes it easier for you, read 'entitled *******' or ' nasty bytch' instead of narcissist and proceed with your advice.

We all are narcissistic. All of us. Some more than others, that's it. There - 'narcissism' demystified.
Love, love, love this response.
Especially the part about people getting hung up on the use of the word narcissism.

The mainstay of narcissism is exactly that these people lie and dupe and the mask comes off later on yet the person you were responding to seemed to list this in a way as if it is a normal course of events and the change in opinion of a person towards their ex is to be expected?! I've never felt this way when things have ended with a non-narcissist ex. It was just: yeah, this isn't working out.

Sometimes I think the people who go on those hunts to deflect away someone's suspicions of narcissism do that because they like the narcissistic way of doing things...whether its because it suits their needs or simply because they are so used to it, that it is now their definition of 'love' and they don't want the cognitive dissonance.
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Old 8th March 2019, 9:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Normm View Post
The reason I asked is that I see the term narcissist thrown around all the time on forums like this. It's funny how we spend a good part of our lives with a person with whom we saw such positive qualities that we decided to enter into a committed exclusive relationship, sometimes having and raising children with them, and then when things crash and burn they're suddenly nutjobs with all sorts of personality disorders and anger issues.


I've come to the conclusion that more often than not, after a breakup we all think our ex's are crazy and they say the same thing about us.

That's sorta how it works with narcissists.....the beginning is the love-bombing and false self presented until the partner is hooked, by the time the victim is secured i.e. with marriage/children etc, the narcissist no longer bothers with the heavy work of maintaining a false image and boom, it will 'crash and burn' when their real self comes out.
You gave a very good description of the course of events with a narc in attempting to criticise the way people think of narcs!
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Old 9th March 2019, 4:27 AM   #9
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We all are narcissistic. All of us. Some more than others, that's it.
'Narcissism' is more than just normal, psychologically healthy self-interest, self-care and self-preservation.

I would agree that we can all be said to be 'selfish' to one degree or another, but not that every person is narcissistic, by the traditional definition of that word.

I also don't think that narcissism can be treated with drugs; it's only become a 'diagnosable disorder' on account of Big Pharma's lobbying to get it medically recognized as such.
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Old 9th March 2019, 7:03 AM   #10
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You're right, we are not all narcissistic but we all have the potential to be narcissistic; it is there in us all, at least according to many professionals (whose word I go by).

It doesn't even take that much for that personality trait to come out imo (it's all over LS for a start).


As far as the extreme version of that, the spectrum personality disorder, I agree that pills are not the answer.

We're still in the infancy of getting to know how our brain works; before too long, we may know more about recognising it quicker in our genetic make-up and helping those who have it, since they mostly lead a miserable, empty, lonely, paranoid inner life full of depression, unaddressed insecurities and heightened anxiety because their lack of self-awareness makes them think no-one is on their level.

Extreme narcissism wrecks the lives of many, not least that of those who have it and have a distorted view of themselves. They may act like they have it all, but it really is just an act.

I was lucky to talk at length with a lead psychologist who was in the middle of writing a book on narcissism; it's kind of heart-breaking, really.

I really do hope we find an answer to it that would involve support, and strategies to increase self-awareness and teach empathy cognitively. The optimist in me thinks it's both possible and very likely.

In the meantime, best to avoid the extreme version of it at all costs for sure; and the best way to do that is to know how to spot the signs. Knowledge is the answer to everything.

Sure going about diagnosis strangers is not right. Sure using this as a label against the ex to deflect personal responsibility is not helpful. I'm personally not that concerned about the actual word. I don't get why people are cruisading on this. When someone describes an ex or a relative or a friend as a narcissist, and show a healthy level of personal accountability themselves (as opposed to dumping it all on the ex), I know exactly what they mean.

Last edited by littleblackheart; 9th March 2019 at 7:10 AM..
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Old 9th March 2019, 8:02 AM   #11
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I have forgotten the story of Narcissus, I seem to remember something about a swan and Zeus, but I think the key thing was about her looking in the mirror of the lake, maybe it is somewhat similar to Snow White, I'm not sure, I guess I can Google it.

If someone can describe the condition in reference to the original story then I be grateful,

Then there are the plants or flowers.

For my mind, the mirror is something that we try and break when we see a reflection that we don't like, that surely is the definition of narcissism that I understand, but breaking a mirror is said to bring seven years bad luck if you believe in old English superstitions, at least I think it is an old English superstition, I don't know it might be American or even German, I guess I could Google that as well.

Is there ever anything to be gained by trying to break the mirror except bad karma?

Can reflections ever be perceived as perfect, and can actions ever be anything other than proof by contradiction?

Aren't we always breaking the mirror in some small way?

Is it just about not going to extremes?

Shedding one false assumption for another?

The quicker the better?

Thank you.
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Old 9th March 2019, 2:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by littleblackheart View Post
Knowledge is the answer to everything.
I agree; and, in general, with what you say in your post.

I don't actually see it all over LS, but do see the word getting used a lot here, either to blame or to try to make sense of why a relationship ended.

I think that using proper terminology helps with learning and understanding, or knowledge; not just in psychology, but also science, communication skills, etc.
So, I do advocate for using the most suitable words and phrases to describe behaviour and psychological tendencies, patterns and habits.
Otherwise, we may just soon be calling 'normally selfish' people sociopaths and psychopaths. Which would not be good, IMO. .

I agree that a medical diagnosis needs to be done in a clinical setting. However, that does not mean that people who have taken the time to do self-directed learning cannot have insight into,
or be able to recognize, specific types of phenomena, situations, behaviour and psychology; it doesn't take a medical diagnosis.

I don't find all authors or 'experts-in-their-field' to be trustworthy. Many of them are simply looking to achieve and/or maintain reputation, fame and/or status. It can get cut-throat and hostile.

On a personal note, littleblackheart, I do enjoy your posts -- always well thought out and articulate, and sensitive and considerate.
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Old 9th March 2019, 3:39 PM   #13
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I think that using proper terminology helps with learning and understanding, or knowledge; not just in psychology, but also science, communication skills, etc.
So, I do advocate for using the most suitable words and phrases to describe behaviour and psychological tendencies, patterns and habits.
That's fair enough. I personally see language as an ever evolving vehicle, adapting to current trends and habits. I'm not shocked by the use of the word 'narcissism' on here when posters clearly lay out their own behaviour and take responsibility for their own action. I assume they know what they are talking about, and did their own research accordingly.

I'm not too hung up on labels in any event, so I always pay more attention to the behaviour described. My own experience with that in 4 years of therapy, as my life unfolded, it became apparent to the professionals I was talking to that my exH was one of those 1% who have the disorder. I'd never heard of it before. It took a while for me to digest the information. After too long spent torturing myself mentally on the whys and the hows, I recognised that the label itself wasn't that important. My own journey, what lead to me getting into the relationship, how to deal with his constant drama even post divorce, how to move on from it and not repeat it was what's important, not his character or behaviour, because I have no control over that.

But figuring this out, researching it, making sense of it (almost obsessively) was part and parcel of the healing process so I relate and empathise with those who are at that point. I wish I could hurry them along, but it's a path they have to take for themselves.

Quote:
I agree that a medical diagnosis needs to be done in a clinical setting. However, that does not mean that people who have taken the time to do self-directed learning cannot have insight into,
or be able to recognize, specific types of phenomena, situations, behaviour and psychology; it doesn't take a medical diagnosis.
I agree. I don't think it's wise to diagnose strangers, but I think it's possible for a well-read someone to recognise certain patterns in others.

Quote:
I don't find all authors or 'experts-in-their-field' to be trustworthy. Many of them are simply looking to achieve and/or maintain reputation, fame and/or status. It can get cut-throat and hostile.
That's true. Equally, there are professional, competent, genuinely knowledgeable and open-minded experts worth listening to. I personally find something to gain from most situations / people.

Quote:
On a personal note, littleblackheart, I do enjoy your posts -- always well thought out and articulate, and sensitive and considerate.
Thank you. Likewise.

Last edited by littleblackheart; 9th March 2019 at 3:45 PM..
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Old 9th March 2019, 5:55 PM   #14
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I personally see language as an ever evolving vehicle,
Language, yes, is much more subject to change on account of trends. But, unfortunately, science, psychology, medicine, etc., are not so fluid and adaptable.

The 'difference' is that you are well-informed/educated/knowledgeable on the topic, but I don't share your assumption that the people who post about narcissism (or whatever the issue) are likewise.

So, I sort of see it as the 'responsibility' (for lack of a better word coming to mind) of the educated or more knowledgeable, to stay alert to try to ensure proper understanding, which, to me,
necessarily includes proper or generally-accepted definitions and use of terminology (to help everyone be on as much of the 'same page' as possible, when talking about improvements
and potential solutions).

Posters do, of course, know what they are talking about as far as their own perceptions and experiences of their given situation, but, even if they did their own prior 'due diligence' and
research (which I'm not sure is always or even frequently the case here at LS), does not mean that they were able to properly identify, on their own, ALL of the dynamics, including their own part and
psychological flaws/dysfunctions that they contributed to the issue or breakdown of relationship. The labels DO become unimportant or irrelevant...but only after we can see how it all fits together;
but, until then, we need the proper or most well-understood labels to help us navigate the path.

There is an article at BBC that you and/or others may find interesting: The Strange Link Between the Human Mind and Quantum Physics,
which possibly speaks to how psychologists can move forward with helping people, but without mood- and mind-altering drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodleNuts View Post
and started standing up for myself. She didn't like that. Boy, narcs sure do get ugly,
Perhaps something for NoodleNuts to consider: you don't have to be a narcissist (by definition or diagnosis) to 'get ugly' when you get gainsaid.
It's a trait of narcissism, of course, but not exclusive to narcissists.

Last edited by Ronni_W; 9th March 2019 at 6:17 PM.. Reason: Correction to clarify.
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Old 9th March 2019, 7:36 PM   #15
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I've come to the conclusion that more often than not, after a breakup we all think our ex's are crazy and they say the same thing about us.
...and this is what makes you part of the problem. You're the perfect candidate to be an unwitting "flying monkey."

When you readily buy into social narratives with willful blindness you're easily exploited as a gate keeper and abuse by proxy. The narcissist will tell you exactly what you want to hear, that version of the truth that conforms to your expectation, and to the popular social narrative that informs you. You may then turn around and block a victims access to support all the while believing your are doing the "right thing." You become an unwitting instrument of the narcissist's gas-lighting.

We all have narcissistic tendencies, but a true Narcissist is NOT "crazy." They are deftly manipulative and highly exploitative. Like any abuser their public performance is stellar and their private terrorism nicely hidden. Unless you are very closely involved with one you'll not likely to ever know the truth about them.

A "disordered" narcissist NPD usually self destructs. (Think Jim Baker, Charlie Sheen, or quite a few Alcoholics) The people who wreak havoc on our lives are the ones that fall just shy of disordered. (In the extreme - serial killer.) Even if this latter person could be diagnosed they never will be. They're not going to allow anyone to look behind the curtain.

Yes, there are a lot of people who throw the term "crazy" around. But people who have suffered the abuse of a true narcissist don't use the word "crazy." We know better.

Last edited by Turning point; 9th March 2019 at 7:43 PM..
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