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Mad, mad world..


OatsAndHall

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OatsAndHall

I have a female friend that I have know for the better part of thirty years. Her and I reconnected a few years ago via social media and have been chatting on a regular basis ever since. She is single and so am I and we discussed dating last year around this time but opted not to for a variety of reasons.

 

We tend to talk with one another about our dating lives and we usually have open and candid conversations when it comes to the topic. She is middle aged, been single for quite some time and is unhappy about it as she had always assumed that she'd be married with kids by now. She knows that I feel as if she sets the bar too high for her potential suitors as more often than not, I am light-heartedly giving her grief about dumping yet another guy. On the flip-side of the coin, she thinks I have Peter Pan syndrome and has no qualms telling me so. We've only had one argument regarding this topic and it was because I screwed up and poked my nose where it didn't belong awhile back (I posted a thread about it in this section.)

 

Anywho, her and I got into an argument yesterday that has kind of left me reeling. She is/was dating a fellow that we've both known for years; he's a great guy that is well-educated, has a successful business and I know he treats her well as I have seen it first hand and she has told me as such. But, yesterday, she informs me that she is going to break up with him because she doesn't like that he travels so much for work. Bear in mind, she's told me is out of town during the week but back on the weekends (he spends much of his weekend with her).

 

I was a bit floored when she stated that she was going to part ways with him over this as he's really only out of town three-four days per week and he's still in the state. So, I asked her why this was becoming such an issue for her. She stated that she "just didn't see him being a good husband or father if he had to travel so much for work".

 

This took me aback and I reminded her that they only been dating a few months, that I thought it was a bit premature to be thinking about marriage and children with the guy and that I thought it would be wise to take a step back, keep enjoying the time she had with him as she had stated they got along well.

 

She became defensive at this point which, in turn, caused me to get my hackles up as her and I have had conversations like this in the past. But, I caught myself and told her that there was no need for us to argue over it as this was her life and I just wanted her to be happy. Her response: "I figured you'd be happy that I was dumping another guy seeing as you want us to be together.."

 

At this point, I was angry as a) we haven't discussed the prospect of us dating in well over a year and both agreed that it was a bad idea and b) there has only been two occasions where I have agreed with her reasoning for her calling it off with someone. The rest of the time, I push her towards giving the guys she dates more of a chance. I calmly reminded her of these two facts and then told her that I thought it would be best if we didn't talk about our romantic lives if it was going to turn into a fight. She responded with: "Maybe it's best if we don't talk at all." I haven't heard from her since..

 

So, I'm stunned at this point. Her and I have had many of the same kinds of talks with regards to BOTH of our dating lives over the last year and it's never brewed into that kind of fight. It has always been a calm, back and forth with neither of us lecturing or being pedantic.

 

I am now left wondering if she's either that pissed off at me for dishing out advice or if she has kind of stuck herself in the friend-zone this whole time and has still be considering us as a couple. It sucks because I do really value her friendship and I don't want to lose that. We have plenty of things in common to talk about other than dating.

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This is not going to sound like advice I would normally give but as I was reading this I put myself in your shoes...

 

There is no doubt I would have bent her over a table and taken her right then and there.. given her exactly what she is looking for...

 

She is hot for you...IMO she would not have mentioned you at all if that was not the case...

 

Ball is now clearly in your court...

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This is not going to sound like advice I would normally give but as I was reading this I put myself in your shoes...

 

There is no doubt I would have bent her over a table and taken her right then and there.. given her exactly what she is looking for...

 

She is hot for you...IMO she would not have mentioned you at all if that was not the case....

 

Ball is now clearly in your court...

 

My thoughts exactly: your turn now.

 

She wants you to pursue her and is angry about why you aren't.

She doesn't want a professional discussion about the pros and cons about you two dating--she wants you to chase her and be romantic.

 

Men: when they feel physical attraction to women, then they form emotional bonding

 

Women: when they feel friendship and emotional connection, then they form physical desire.

 

Go for it!

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I don't see this at all as she wants you. I'm sorry. I think she sees your advice as being, right or wrong, biased because she believes you want her and that that is what she was taking a jab at.

 

At her age, if she can have kids and does, she will need all the help from the father she can get, so I think it's practical thinking wanting a man who is at least in town most of the days of the week.

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OatsAndHall
I don't see this at all as she wants you. I'm sorry. I think she sees your advice as being, right or wrong, biased because she believes you want her and that that is what she was taking a jab at.

 

At her age, if she can have kids and does, she will need all the help from the father she can get, so I think it's practical thinking wanting a man who is at least in town most of the days of the week.

 

 

But there's no logic behind that thought process; I was advising her to stick it out with this guy, as I have done with many other men she has dated. I could see her reacting so angrily if I had been telling her to "ditch that zero and find yourself a hero!!". Honestly, I've only pushed her to drop one guy over this last year and it was because he is in his late 30's, had been living with his parents for the last two years and hadn't held down a job longer than six months in a very long time. She was friggin' smitten with that dude and I actually didn't pipe up until she mentioned him moving in with her after they'd only been together three weeks.

 

 

 

I do agree that there she has a point behind this guy not potentially being the best "daddy" material right at this moment. But, he just started up his flooring business about eighteen months ago, is making solid money and it's only a matter of time before he's either landing jobs closer to or in town. Or, he has the capital to hire a larger crew and send them out on the road while he works on projects nearby.

 

 

 

I'm not making these arguments because I'm hoping she's pining over me. Quite the opposite actually; I'm really hoping that she isn't because that would probably spell the demise of our friendship. When we agreed not to date, it was a firmly mutual decision; I care a lot about her but I don't want to date her.

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If you don't want to date her then you need to lay it all on the table and clear the air so this doesn't keep coming up..

 

She has feelings for you... I'd bet it.. but that doesn't mean she can't keep them in check.

 

I'd say you go someplace and talk this out with her..

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She may be insulted that you don't think she deserves the full package. And while it's true she may never find it, a friend will always insist you are worthy of it.

 

Why not just stop getting involved in her gossiping about her love life. You can even tell her, Look, we never agree on this subject, so I'll let you talk about your men to your girlfriends so we don't get crosswise.

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OatsAndHall
She may be insulted that you don't think she deserves the full package. And while it's true she may never find it, a friend will always insist you are worthy of it.

 

Why not just stop getting involved in her gossiping about her love life. You can even tell her, Look, we never agree on this subject, so I'll let you talk about your men to your girlfriends so we don't get crosswise.

 

 

That's what I really don't understand about yesterday's conversation; we've had them before, they're always light-hearted (with the exception of the talk unemployed guy who was going to move from his parent's basement into her house..) and they've gone both ways. One of her trademark lines is "so you've weighed and measured another girl and found her wanting, huh?".

 

 

I know where you're coming from when it comes to the "full package" and I truly believe she's dated two other guys this last year who fit that to a tee.

 

 

 

She's a devote Catholic, met a teacher via Christian mingle that she was really, really into for about a month. But, she called it off with him when he told her that he wasn't going to pursue his masters (and get a pay raise..) because he'd "never be able to provide for a family" with a bachelors degree. This would be true if her plans were to be a stay-at-home mom but she doesn't want that and has said as much.

 

 

The other guy is a few years older than her, is an investment banker (i.e. is loaded..) and she hit it off with him well. But, she dumped him after six weeks because she couldn't get over the fact that he was divorced.. She knew he was divorced when she started dating him but she was friggin' fixated on that fact... "Second marriages fail at a high rate.."

 

 

 

But, regardless, what I told her at the end of the conversation will stand if we start talking again. No more discussing our romantic lives.

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MuddyFootprints

OP, you are a middle-age man who has been friend zoned by a middle-age woman for 30 years. She isn't interested.

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LivingWaterPlease

I, too, believe she has feelings beyond those of just a friend and that's why she reacted as she did (with anger and doesn't want to talk).

 

Hard to know if she's breaking up with these other guys because of her feelings for you but it's possible. She certainly seems to me to be pretty picky in that she breaks up with guys for pretty persnickety reasons, imo. However, if she has lots of guys going after her I guess she can afford to toss them aside at her pleasure.

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OatsAndHall
OP, you are a middle-age man who has been friend zoned by a middle-age woman for 30 years. She isn't interested.

 

 

I have said repeatedly that I DON'T want to date her, the argument ensued because I was pushing her to stick with a guy and I am certainly not in the friend-zone.

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Maddieandtae

How old is your friend? I'm wondering if she's put so much pressure on herself to find a partner that she's panicking that it won't happen and you are getting the brunt of her frustration because she feels safe venting to you? Not that it's an appropriate way to vent!

 

I'm curious about the online dating world in the states. I read about all these dates that the people on the dating board go on and in my area it's all really kinda well scary people!!

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I have a female friend that I have know for the better part of thirty years.

 

So, I'm stunned at this point. Her and I have had many of the same kinds of talks with regards to BOTH of our dating lives over the last year and it's never brewed into that kind of fight. It has always been a calm, back and forth with neither of us lecturing or being pedantic.

 

We have plenty of things in common to talk about other than dating.

 

 

You were in the friend-zone for so long that she trusts you enough to become more-than-friends now that she realized her dating life is going nowhere.

 

 

 

She baited you ("i thought you'd be happy i was single"), then acted all offended when you rejected her advance.

 

 

From what you described, she is a serial dater, always unhappy in her relationships, she probably has a childhood void she is desperatly trying to fill, but never achieve to.

 

 

My advice : stop deluding youself about your "friendship", you're her male confident, and she's ready to put your "friendship" on the line by sleeping with you, which means she never considered you as a friend, but as a desperate-for-her-attention beta male who normally has no chance to sleep with her (whatever your intentions were).

 

 

But sometimes, the friendzone can also lead to a proximity which blurs the lines between attraction and trust.

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PhillyLibertyBelle

OP:

 

Here is my armchair analysis for whatever it’s worth. She’s into you. For some reason she believes/believed you were interested, however you’re not.

 

You state you are perplexed by her tossing seemingly suitable men. If she is middle aged, Christian or not, to expect to find a man who is an age appropriate, suitable companion who isn’t a commitment-phobe who has never been married is like finding a needle in 10 haystacks. I don’t see her being content with a good man whilst she is chasing unicorns.

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OatsAndHall
OP:

 

Here is my armchair analysis for whatever it’s worth. She’s into you. For some reason she believes/believed you were interested, however you’re not.

 

You state you are perplexed by her tossing seemingly suitable men. If she is middle aged, Christian or not, to expect to find a man who is an age appropriate, suitable companion who isn’t a commitment-phobe who has never been married is like finding a needle in 10 haystacks. I don’t see her being content with a good man whilst she is chasing unicorns.

 

 

I don't know what her deal at this point... I received a message from her yesterday stating that she was rethinking about breaking up with her boyfriend. I told her that was great but that it was probably best if we didn't talk about each other's love lives any more. I didn't get a response.

 

 

So, I'll sit back and wait and see what happens. If she does want to date me, we may be in for a difficult discussion that could end our friendship. I don't want that to happen.

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Eternal Sunshine
I don't know what her deal at this point... I received a message from her yesterday stating that she was rethinking about breaking up with her boyfriend. I told her that was great but that it was probably best if we didn't talk about each other's love lives any more. I didn't get a response.

 

 

So, I'll sit back and wait and see what happens. If she does want to date me, we may be in for a difficult discussion that could end our friendship. I don't want that to happen.

 

 

I think you need to tell her that you don't want to date her. She could be finding reasons to end things with other men because she is hoping that you two will end up together. I doubt she will end the friendship over it but even if that happens, you are actually helping her so you can't just think of yourself.

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OatsAndHall
I think you need to tell her that you don't want to date her. She could be finding reasons to end things with other men because she is hoping that you two will end up together. I doubt she will end the friendship over it but even if that happens, you are actually helping her so you can't just think of yourself.

 

 

When we talked about dating last year, we both left it at "we're such good friends, let's not make a mess of it". But, that wasn't the primary reason why I opted not to date her. If the real reason happened to come out, she'd be upset and that friendship would suffer.. And, I know her well; she would force the issue and what I'm about to write would probably come out.

 

 

 

I thought long and hard about dating her as it did make sense at the time; we have similar interests, we're both teachers, we enjoy each other's company and we have great conversations. But, she has been serial-dating long before we reconnected; she only had one long term relationship since high school and that only lasted six months. I could easily see us getting along fabulously for a few months and then BAM! I'm out on my ass. I've just seen her do it too many times with too many guys and I'm not comfortable with it. I know I would get emotionally attached quickly as we are such good friends and I don't want to put myself out there like that.

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When we talked about dating last year, we both left it at "we're such good friends, let's not make a mess of it". But, that wasn't the primary reason why I opted not to date her. If the real reason happened to come out, she'd be upset and that friendship would suffer.. And, I know her well; she would force the issue and what I'm about to write would probably come out.

 

 

 

I thought long and hard about dating her as it did make sense at the time; we have similar interests, we're both teachers, we enjoy each other's company and we have great conversations. But, she has been serial-dating long before we reconnected; she only had one long term relationship since high school and that only lasted six months. I could easily see us getting along fabulously for a few months and then BAM! I'm out on my ass. I've just seen her do it too many times with too many guys and I'm not comfortable with it. I know I would get emotionally attached quickly as we are such good friends and I don't want to put myself out there like that.

 

Well maybe things would have been different with you two, who knows?!

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