jenny Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 i value my friends above all else. i don't do the whole "i'll talk about other guys with you" thing; that's tacky. i treat them like the scholars or the very fun bad-a$$es i see them as. i have seriously never understood this, i might have posted on this before, i think, (tho not here) but it came up again and it really seems to piss guys off. any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I read your post five times and can't figure it out. Could you possibly be more clear. Are you having a hard time being friends with guys or girls??? Your thread title indicates it is insulting to somebody to be a friend to a girl. Who is it insulting to? How do they express to you that it is insulting? What seems to piss guys off...that you have posted this before? That you have a hard time being friends with them...or that you have girl friends? I'd really love to answer this post but until I clearly understand what you want to discuss...nothing I can do. Link to post Share on other sites
tackleboxteddybear Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Its not insulting more like a shot to the heart. Like me for instense there was (is) this gal who I like I took her out to see a movie.I thought we where clicking rather well.I wanted more then just sex from her for I like debating with her.I wanted her to be a companion with sex maybe in the future but i like the hugs & kisses too more(kinda wierd huh). I liked her.I still do.I wanted to go out with her more but I told her how I felt & when she pulled the friends thing it hurt.though she calls me 2 to 3 times a day & takes up 25% of the calls on my caller ID (lol) I havent got a chance to call her on my own because she actually calls me. Thing is the friends statement for most of us guys with honorable intentions results in a heart break. Thats my explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
Curt Posted August 23, 2003 Moderators Share Posted August 23, 2003 A woman usually pulls the "friends" thing on a guy that she loves as a good conversation partner/sharer of information/intellectual stimulation/whatever, but has no sexual/physical desire for. He's a great person emotionally and intellectually, etc., and she may love talking to him, but, as far as mate material goes? Ummm...not really. HE on the other hand, wants the WHOLE package. He appreciates and needs her mind, heart AND her body. Realizing this, she introduces the "only friends clause" to him. That way, she gets all the mental and emotional stimulation she wants (and arguably needs) from him. {{Maybe the dude she has at home isn't very emotionally available?}}} Moreover, she needs to reciprocate to him no physical or sexual contact at all. If he gets anything, it's that, at least for a while, he can hold on to the pipe dream he has that she will somehow wake up one morning and say, "Jee...He's so sweet and intelligent and loveable. He's a man I could spend my life with. I'm going to step him up to lover." [color=red]PROBLEM: It isn't ever gonna happen (or at least, VERY VERY VERY rarely would it happen).[/color] Why? It's simple, really. Just as in the beginning of the friendship "fiasco" she proposed, she is getting all she wants from him NOW. As his friend, she has all the good characteristics, and none of that pesky physical or sexual function to perform. He is to be touched just to be her friend. At that juncture, physical intimacy with her would almost be supposed to run a very distant second in his mind. Look at the men caught in this predicament. Was that their choice? Not usually, no. It becomes insulting to a man (eventually) because he wakes up, smells the coffee, and realizes he is being used emotionally. His dream of having all of her love has long since gone, and finally that becomes BRUTALLY obvious to him. She can keep the guy she has at home for physical closeness, while at the same time, using him as the mental and emotional "fill up" that she may not get from the physical intimacy partner. That's my take on the reason as to why being a friend is so bad. For a man, it is tad amount to saying to him, "I like you as someone to share emotional and intellectual pursuits with, but I won't give you that physical or sexual intimacy with me that you desire so much" He loses, and she wins the works, at least in his mind. Think of it ladies. What if you had a partner. You loved him completely, both intellectually, physically and emotionally. You would give him kids, be there for him as he would be for you. Someone then says, "OK, from here on in, you may have the sexual connection, but you may not have any emotional or intellectual connection to him at all. He will be your physical provider of sex, but nothing else. There will be no emotional/intellectual contact. How would you feel? Perhaps like a piece of meat? Many men, told to be a woman's friend only, when they want ALL of her, suffer that similar fate as I described above, save that they are denied the physical closeness, and given everything else. It's six of one, half dozen of the other. Same idea. Clear as mud? Curt Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 yes, i think i do see your point. it never occurs to me that they might have wanted something until they get mad. but i'm usually attracted to my male friends, i would not be friends with them otherwise, i'm just not sure if i want to get emotionally involved instead of mentally involved. but, yes, overall this is now waterford clear - thanks so much. and sorry about incoherence of first post, i was trying to write it before work xox j Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 You wrote a classic above....couldn't have possibly been more on the money. I'm going to submit it for a Pulitzer Prizeon your behalf, if they offer those for OUTSTANDING posts on an Internet forum. You have told the brutal truth. I am now copying and pasting your prose onto my permanently saved files on my hard drive. Thanks for taking the time to write it. It is terrific!!! Also cudos to all the above posters who were able to figure out what the original thread was all about. My reading comprehension level isn't what it used to be. Link to post Share on other sites
yes Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 so, it sounds to me like a gal and a guy can only be friends if they're mutually unattracted, yet find each other mentally interesting. right? friends is such a tough topic for me precicely for the above reasons - guys will usually end up attracted, so it's not a real friendship anymore; gals will vanish as soon as they get into a serious r/s, or once the guy they want looks at you instead of her... sigh, -yes Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 That's my take on the reason as to why being a friend is so bad. For a man, it is tad amount to saying to him, "I like you as someone to share emotional and intellectual pursuits with, but I won't give you that physical or sexual intimacy with me that you desire so much" I don't think it's as black and white as this. I fully believe it's possible for men and women to be friends. But by the above statement, it sounds as though only two people who are not attracted to each other in the slightest can be friends. I happen to think a lot of my male friends are really hot, but there are other reasons why I would never consider a relationship with them. Male friends are similar to female friends--I, at least, have certain friends that fill certain interests/needs that I have. For example, I have female friends who like to go to sporting events and/or watch sports with me, I have friends who hate sports but are there 100% when I need a shopping buddy, etc. My male friends are the same way--some of them share my love of movies, some of them I talk tech with, some of them I just like to go out and get hammered with once and a while. But with regard to my male friends, for me at least it is not a physical attraction problem why I wouldn't want a relationship--it's other things, such as their financial stability, continuing frat boy behavior, or personality quirks I don't care for. I actually don't think women are as caught up in physical appearance as men are. I think it far more likely that a woman would fall for a male friend who she wasn't initially attracted to than a male to fall for a female friend he wasn't initially attracted to. It's certainly happened to me before--if I get to know and like the inside, the outside doesn't matter so much. I often think men who are pushed into "friend mode" have qualities other than their looks that aren't jiving with the girl in question. It's too easy to simply blame it on lack of physical attraction, at least in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
2SidestoStories Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 As a woman who has been on both the "giving" and the "receiving" end of the Let's just be friends scenario, a few times over I might add, I can definitely point to several aspects of the brilliant assessment made by Curt. For example: It becomes insulting to a man (eventually) because he wakes up, smells the coffee, and realizes he is being used emotionally. His dream of having all of her love has long since gone, and finally that becomes BRUTALLY obvious to him. She can keep the guy she has at home for physical closeness, while at the same time, using him as the mental and emotional "fill up" that she may not get from the physical intimacy partner. More often I have found that the woman in the scenario (let's just use me as an example here) has quite possibly wanted to pursue a deeper level of relationship with a man, but has been in a relationship already. My philosophy is that if I find someone stimulating enough intellectually and especially emotionally, there is definite reason for me to want to have a friendship with him. Out of respect for my partner, however, I have been brutally honest and said that I have a close friendship with the individual in question. Perhaps I'm a great deal more nonchalant about certain things, but a relationship isn't worth the effort for just a physical connection, no matter how good the sex may be. Which it usually isn't! The scenario wherein both parties are available, attracted to each other physically/sexually, mentally/intellectually, AND emotionally but still one or the other or both say, "Let's be friends!" is undeniably the most bizarre thing I have encountered, although frankly I have done this as well. Sometimes it is best in the long run: I have an extremely close male friend who I have known for eleven years. We have all of the would-be "necessary" components of a relationship, in very basic terms, but there are some key values that we have differences in, so in spite of the attraction factor, it's just plain best for us to be friends who love and support each other. I can admit that there have been times that it's been tough, but it always comes back to a mutual respect that we have for one another. Hmm...could that be what's missing in most of these other cases: respect? Also, substitute "woman" for "man" in Curt's description, and you have a fair analysis of both genders, at least as far as I can see. Link to post Share on other sites
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