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Watching a friend potentially wreck their life


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When is it proper to step in and help a friend who is obviously in need and struggling in their daily life? This friend complains how stressful their daily life is but then refuses any help or to even vent about the stress. They are turning to the wrong sources for help, ie alcohol. It's not full blown alcohol dependence but I've seen enough to know that if this goes unchecked it will blow up into it.

 

I don't want to see this person destroy their life or end up at rock bottom but I don't want to overstep my boundaries as a friend either. This must be what it's like for a parent who teaches their child to ride a bike. You don't want to see them fall and get scraped up, but at the same time they'll never learn until they do fall. I guess maybe I should just let them fall and hopefully they know that I'll be right there to pick them up.

 

Though, I've known this friend for long enough to know that if they do fall they will probably not ask for help for fear of the, "I told you so." attitude. So when, if ever, should I step in and tell them to knock this crap off. Yes life sucks right now, but it's pretty much sh*t for everyone else too. So let's just get through this together instead of alone and drunk.

 

If this were you, would you be offended if someone stepped in and was concerned about your well being? Would you take that as a blow to your independence?

 

PS. The word "help" in the thread title violates the community guidelines? Maybe I should read those, but that's odd considering this is a place for help. Ohh I get it now, since this is a place for help, the world help would be redundant. Makes sense.

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burningashes

Letting your friend know that you are concerned is not overstepping the boundaries. You are showing that you care and want the best for your friend. You can let your friend know of your concerns and say if they ever needed help, you're here for them.

 

Other than that, there really isn't much you can do other than step back. You have to let other people make mistakes on their own so they can learn from it. Unfortunately, some people don't though.

 

Good luck!

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When it happened to me, yes, I became defensive...but that was MY dysfunctional reaction.

I have always appreciated my friend for caring enough to find the courage to offer me his observations...even though he (rightly) suspected that I would react exactly as I did.

 

Years later, he said that he had no idea if/how our relationship would survive but that he had been willing to give up the friendship, as much as it meant to him, rather than see me travel down the (self-destructive) path I was on.

 

Fortunately for us, things worked out well -- my defensiveness was very short-lived. Doesn't mean it will always work like that, though.

I guess...expect the best and prepare for the worst, perhaps?

 

PS -- Yep. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it says in the guidelines...that "help" in thread titles is redundant :)

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Things are getting worse with this person. They go hot/cold so fast that I can no longer handle the very vagueness that they are spewing forth. I feel that I have to confront them about all of the issues that I'm seeing and that have been bottled up in our heads for the past few months. Sure, bringing these issues forth is going to be emotional hell and very hard but I don't see anything but good once these issues get aired out. We may not solve issue #1, but there can be no harm in at least getting it out into the open instead of letting it fester inside your brain.

 

The question is, is there any good way to bring the topic of "the big talk" up without immediately setting this other person on the defense? The only way I can think of is to tell this person that we need to talk. But I think if I do that they will automatically shut down and go on the defensive. But the talk won't just focus on them, it'll focus on my own issues as well. It's just airing out a load of old farts hanging around in the car. I just want to be able to finally roll down the windows and let in a blast of fresh air.

 

How do you think the best way to bring it up would be as well? I'm thinking a phone call to start, but the actual talk must be in person. There is no other option for the talk, in person as you can feel the emotions and see the face of the other side. I fear that this person will ignore the phone call, or should I call them from a number they do not have in their phone? I doubt a text would work, though you have to read the text before you can delete it on their phone, we share the same phone type. Email isn't probably a good way to go either. But text and email aren't as confrontational as a phone call. Any suggestions or experiences that you guys and gals might have had? I have no way of seeing this person on a daily basis other than to just show up at their door, which I would take as ultra confrontational so I'd rule that option out as a starter. I think that'd kill any chances before they even started. So I'm left with phone, text, email or maybe even a handwritten letter left at their door.

 

I'll go to this person to talk, go to whatever place they are most comfortable in. I want them to talk from the heart and know that it's no holds barred. No topic they bring up can hurt me anymore than these last few months of watching them destroy themselves. I'm ready for the worst, but I'm hoping for at least middle ground. The best I think is just a fictitious pipe dream.

 

I deeply care about this person as a friend and if they don't want to talk about all of the garbage that has been happening the last few months then I have no other option than to walk away from the friendship. I feel I cannot keep risking my mental stability and health constantly worrying about this person. Is that too harsh of a reaction? I hate to give them an ultimatum, either talk or it's over but I fear that's the only option I have. It won't be over in the fact that if this person does decide to open up later on down the road, I'll listen to them. But they'll have to contact me and show that they are serious about everything or else I'll go back to no contact with them. I want to do this 100% or not at all.

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There are different types of "communication strategies" for different types of conversations.

 

What is your primary motivation and goal?

To express your observations and concerns, and offer guidance and/or support...or to express your hurt, frustrations, anger and growing resentment, and let him/her know that you will take self-interested action to ensure your own psychological well-being?

 

I read the word "ultimatum" -- that sounds as if (usually it would suggest that) you feel that your personal space and boundaries have been and/or are being violated. If that is so, it is, of course, that you have not been diligent enough in setting and patrolling (protecting) your space and boundaries.

 

That's not your friend's failure. It could indicate your lack of assertiveness, fear of conflict, or some other area that you could improve.

 

Regardless. You can read '6 tips for effective communication' here: http://ezinearticles.com/?Assertive-Communication---6-Tips-For-Effective-Use&id=10259

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blondesmiler

I have one of these friends myself, she drinks and is in a bad relationship and this is mainly why she drinks (as far as I know), when we go out she drinks gets depressed and its all about her and her problems always (which is frustrating) so Xmas before last I decided I would confront her about it. Said I wasn't happy with her, I would do anything too help her in anyway I could but perhaps it was time to consider leaving this man she sits and moans about almost constantly.

 

She took it all the wrong way, thought I was having ago at her, then she got all insecure and was calling me on Xmas eve loads. I explained I wasn't having ago at her but it would be nice to go out and have a nice time again rather than listen to the same moans and groans over and over. Basically said she had to either live with her choice of staying with him and stop moaning always or leave him.

 

Needless to say, over a year later she is still with him, still having problems with him. So it just wasn't worth my breath or energy. I still see her, but less because the same thing still happens and I cannot do anything about it. She is a grown women with a good job and head on her shoulders.

 

I can't do anymore than I have tried too already. So I would say try once maybe twice but if that doesn't work, there is little you can do.

 

Its not nice, but they are adults. They either want to help themselves and will be glad of your help or they are just happy wallowing in their own self pity and you have to leave them there........of course there are some situations which would mean you just step in and perhaps call police, doctor etc but this probably isn't one of those, like the situation with my friend.

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What is your primary motivation and goal?

To express your observations and concerns, and offer guidance and/or support...or to express your hurt, frustrations, anger and growing resentment, and let him/her know that you will take self-interested action to ensure your own psychological well-being

 

Can I have all of the above? I'm very concerned about what I'm seeing and I've been through very similar situations so I want to offer some guidance, but at the same time I'm frustrated that this person keeps refusing help or to take any sort of advice. I'm angry and hurt that they all of a sudden just went so cold towards all of their friends, not just me. They want to prove it on their own, but for the last few months they have just been doing deeper into their own rabbit hole instead of digging themselves out. Obviously on their own isn't working one bit and it's just making things worse.

 

I slept on the whole thought and for now I think my best bet would be to just back down. Maybe instead of confronting them let them know I am there for them when they need me but until then I will back down. It is in my very nature to want to help and fix things and sometimes I think I might come across as pushy. This might be one of those cases. This person is an adult with a job, pays taxes, bills, etc. It's easier to get little kids to open up than adults, maybe we should learn something from these kids. Last I checked little kids are pretty care free.

 

The ultimatum was a word that I used to help myself deal with this. It was the only word that seemed fit and big enough to get this person out of my head if they chose not to take my help. I find myself thinking about ways to help them or just thinking about why this person all of a sudden is doing this to everyone in their life. Like I'll try to find the root of the problem, when that's an almost impossible task to complete in my head. Then, I find myself even more frustrated than before! It's a vicious cycle and I have to stop it.

 

I'd let them know so in case they wondered why I dropped off the face of the earth, though at this point I doubt they'd even notice. There is a fear of conflict on my part, a fear that this could lead to an end that I don't want. The fear that my help will force them deeper into their own darkness instead of pulling them out.

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burningashes

Have you considered setting up an intervention with some friends or family that may share the same concerns as you do?

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I went down this road your friend is on.

 

I basically locked myself into my own place and stopped seeing my friends, stopped talking to my family...and I drank a lot in the evenings- by myself.

Got up, went to work- and came home and locked the door again.

Even gave up my home phone and left my cell phone off most of the time.

 

I was deeply depressed- but at the same time, ashamed of the depression that I locked everyone out of my life.

 

I had told my parents many, many times that I had a problem and needed help- but they always dismissed it as something "not that serious"....

It took a major crisis for them to wake up. Thankfully, I got into rehab and got back on track.

 

I wish someone had intervened with me earlier. I disagree that sometimes one has to have a major "fall" in order to see the light and want help.

My major fall almost cost me my life. In situations like these- the sooner you intervene, the better.

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I honestly want to get through to this person, but at the same time as I'm taking everything in I am almost 100% positive this person will see this attempt as a bad thing and push me further out of their life, maybe even for good. I know right now I am going through some very hard times in my personal life and while I don't want physical help, I am always seeking out friends and family to just have someone to talk to. Though if I had a friend offer to bring pizza and beer over and just have a relax-o-thon I wouldn't turn it down. But this person has so retreated into their own head, they think the entire world is against them and that the only way out is if they do it on their own. This problem more lies in this person's ability to deal with stress and adversity. They just want to run away while their problems keep piling up and nothing is getting solved. So how do you break through to a person who doesn't think they need help or doesn't want help and just wants to run away and hope that time will make everything go away? They just don't realize that running away won't solve anything, the problems will still be there when they get back to normal. Sure they might be supressed but when things start getting stressful again, the problems pop back up ontop of the new problems. Eventually the weight of all of these issues will just crush this poor person I fear.

 

I agree with you D-Lish, that a person doesn't need to hit rock bottom before help can be administered. I don't want to see this happen.

 

Where I'm stuck at is:

 

#1. How to bring this up to this person. So far they've been ignoring my phone calls and it's a toss up if they respond to text or email. It's an even greater toss up if they even read the email or text. It seems as if the text isn't directly related to them or if they can somehow give a vague response then I'll get a reply. If the answer is nothing more than a A or B, there is no gray area type of response then it will be ignored.

 

#2. How much pushing is too much? Say I call them and have to leave a message and they do not respond. Do I give up then? Do I try the email route? There is already a history between us with me pushing too far once a month or so back, yes this is the same person from my previous posts about dropping the relationship bomb on a friend. However, this isn't about that and I honestly mean that. This is about concern for a friend is the most strictest platonic fashion and I'm honesty concerned about this person's well being above all other things, including any previous feelings I may have had or still have for this person.

 

#3. Given the past, this person knows I was always there for them when they needed me to be. So would me giving the final choice of if this person is not willing to open up about what in the world is going on, then I'm cutting all contact. Would that just make things worse?

 

Thank you for all of your support. This is tough becuase no matter what I seem to do, the only end seems to be disaster for both of us. I'll lose a good friend becuase I tried to help too much and they will just spiral out of control. But phsyicly I can't keep this not knowing life up, I'm not sleeping well becuase of it. I just lay awake and night with all of these thoughts just rolling around in my head. Is that wierd? Would you see it as creepy if a friend told you that? Like they cared way too much for another friend?

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WTRanger,

Maybe you would want to email, text and voicemail the same message, something along the lines of: "I am concerned for where our relationship is taking me, and I'd really love the opportunity to speak with you about it".

 

And just have to let it go, if you do not get the type of response that suggests your friend is open to hearing your opinions, feelings and counsel.

 

I totally appreciate your innate empathy, compassion and desire to "improve" other people's lives and experiences. But if they aren't open to it, we cannot do that. Sometimes it is that we must have empathy and strength enough to allow others to choose their own path (well, they're going to do that, anyway, with or without our involvement.)

 

As you say, it is NOT that their behaviour and the consequences thereof is being directed at one person. Although, of course it is difficult not to also take it personally, even when we have the intellectual input that it is not personal.

 

Yes, you are right -- "forcing" one's help and support is as controlling as forcing one's own wants, needs and preferences. Regardless of one's (noble) intention, it is "pushy", as you say.

 

Yes, it is frustrating when others won't help themselves and also refuse the help of others. But again, they do have the sole right and authority to make those decisions...even the self-destructive ones.

 

But. There is no need for us to feel guilty because of whatever path their Soul is on. The guilt part, we do to ourselves. As if we really have power or control to influence or interfere with other people's greater 'lessons, purpose and mission'. As if we really have an obligation or responsibility to get involved (interfere) with that.

 

When really, we are only that powerful and significant in our OWN lives. Period. (Not even in our kids' lives.) Part of it is our lesson in humility.

 

It's tough, I know. Believe me, I do know.

 

Where I am now, I would try to have a conversation. And then I would go and see my therapist for my own "stuff" that results from my loved one just not being ready and/or able to raise their own bar. And the fact that I am powerless and ineffective to help and support those who will not be helped and supported.

 

It is tough on the Self, that is for sure.

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What's even tougher is coming to the self realization of why should I care this much about a person who has shown by their present actions that they could give a flying f*ck about me or anyone else but themselves right now. Why should I care about their problems when I have so many of my own right now?

 

Either way, I need to give it some time before I act. Right now I'm starting to question whether or not all of this effort on my part is even worth it, when deep down I know what is going to happen. Why give 100% when the other party is only willing to give 1-2% at best. Despite on my end I never turned down their cries for help in the past, why now must they become so distant when I need their help to help myself help them? The old "help me, help you." If I can just convince them that this is more of a mutual help, therapy, venting session and that I see no harm in having a good ole fashioned "what's on your mind" talk. In fact, afterward I bet both of our heads would feel much clearer.

 

I just have to be ready to accept the fact that if they do not want help, then I must give up. I have to be ready to walk away, which I think is the one area I'm having the hardest time coming to terms with. I do not want this person out of my life, but at this point it's becoming too much of a burden on my mind. So where is the advantage of having this person in my life? Is anyone else tired of playing grown up?

 

Thanks for so many replies Ronni. It means a lot to me. Thank you.

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WT,

that is just who WE are. We care. We don't need reasons or rationalizations. We care because WE feel it is "proper" to care. Regardless of "them", and regardless what our therapists may view as 'functional' and sane and within our boundaries.

 

We care when all evidence suggests that it is against our better instincts and higher aspirations. THAT is what makes it so tough.

 

No, you should not deplete yourself. But. Yes, you will. (At least, that is how it is for me.)

 

The deal is to be okay with the fact that we are going to be disappointed and hurt because of our inability to stop caring.

 

The frustration isn't because we can't help, it's because WE CAN'T HELP.

 

Now. That either will or won't make sense to you. If it does, the only way that I have found any relief and comfort is to look at it from a much higher perspective.

 

And if it didn't make sense...well, then I'd better just stop typing, yes? :)

 

But feel free to ask for clarification, or whatever.

 

PS: My pleasure to respond -- glad if it is adding something positive.

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As a little update, I did finally get this person to start to talk to me again. They started to open up just a little bit. They were supposed to call me this weekend to talk more about everything that has been going on. I had offered to talk in person, but I don't think they are ready for a face to face meeting yet as it would probably be emotional for both of us.

 

However, this person has failed to make the call. They said they would call so the ball is in their court so to speak. The question is should I just let it go or call them out? I know this person had yet another rough week, but at the same time I tend to believe in a person's word and if they don't follow through on that word then it is hurtful. So should I bitch at them or just let it go?

 

Part of me thinks that this person knows how to get a hold of me, they know they said they would call and they know that they didn't do what they said they would do. So why should I go out of my way any more than I already have? I'm growing tired of making the effort for seemingly little response on their part.

 

Plain and simple if you say you are going to call, then call. If you can't then at least have the common courtesy to let me know that you aren't feeling up to a talk of this magnitude. I'd understand that. Not calling without giving a reason is just weak lemonade in my book. Even make something up, like you've just ate a plate full of chili and washed it down with a gallon of gin and you're stuck on the toilet for the next few hours or so.

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You'reasian
you've just ate a plate full of chili and washed it down with a gallon of gin and you're stuck on the toilet for the next few hours or so.

 

Good God!!! That's got to be the worst combination ever!

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