My friend's erratic behavior

[blind_otter]

So I have a very dear friend who I've reconnected with in the last few months. Initially she was relatively stable but this are getting weirder by the minute.

 

First off, she's married. I've known her since we were 10 and our whole life she's been against having children. All of a sudden she feels her biological clock ticking (we're both 28) and she wants a kid. OK, that's cool, whatever, people are allowed to change their mind.

 

But there are other weird things. Last month she was contemplating an affair, actually thinking she would get pregnant by the potential OM and trick her H into taking care of the kid. That's low. Then her H found out about everything, was devestated, but they talked it out and stayed together. This all happened last month.

 

Now I find out that she's seeing a guy at her new job, totally different guy from the first potential OM. They went out and got drunk and made out and now she wants to have HIS baby.

 

It's like she's out of control. She's flaked on me and plans that we've made about 6 times now, even on my birthday she flaked when we had plans to go out to dinner. That made me sad. She's even mentioned to me that she feels like things are getting out of control. She asked me if she could take some of my medication (I take a mood stabilizer and an antidepressant). Of course I said no, but advised her to seek out help if she feel like things are getting out of hand.

 

It's all very upsetting and it makes me worried for her. Should I be more forceful and tell her to get it together and seek help? Or should I sit back and watch her destroy the happy life she once lived with her husband?

[tanbark813]

Well yeah, if she's getting to the point where she's asking you for meds then I would say something to her about getting help. And with all due respect, she doesn't sound like a "dear friend" and her H is a moron.

[lost4ever]

Just be a friend like you have been, you can tell her you feel she is not making good choices but that is all you can do.....(I think it's a "new" mid life crsis for women) 28-29, very tricky years, IMO, hopefully she survives it without messing yup too much more!

[Ali4134]

Definately tell her to get help. Sugar coat it as best you can because it sounds like if anything bad was to happen she would go deeper into anything bad she already has going. She needs someone strong to make her realize that she needs help. Also, if you can try and spend more time with her and even with her and her husband. She just needs help. So yes tell her.

[blind_otter]

My partner hates her and thinks she's crazy. I think she's definately unstable and possibly bipolar. She used the word "manic" when referring to her recently behavior.

 

I feel for her because I used to have manic episodes myself and I remember how high and out of control I would get.

[Ali4134]

Yeah she needs help. You've known her for a long time, is she a really good person beneath it all? If so then it's worth it to get her back to herself.

[blind_otter]

Thanks for helping me talk through this. Beneath it all she's a VERY good person who has a sunny side and a positive outlook on life. I don't know what triggered this insanity. I want my best friend back! I actually like her husband. Her husband called my partner this morning needing help and advice, but my partner just didn't know what to say. He's not good at the whole counseling thing.

[EnigmaXOXO]

When it comes to reacquainting with old friends, melancholy (for me) can sure be a confusing emotion to navigate. I tend to give tenor to old friends even in situations where I normally wouldn’t when befriending someone new.

 

Having been in a very similar situation a few years back, I found myself trying to reconcile between the fond memories I had of my friend while growing up together ... and the uncomfortable realization of the two very different people we had both grown into. It was weird ... like we were familiar strangers. And like you, I was trying so hard to find any hint of the person I once knew. And as hard as I tried to like this new person, the friend from my past just wasn’t there anymore.

 

I won’t go into all the ugly details, but my friend was very much like yours and then some. In short, I finally had to ask myself: “Is this someone I would be happy to call a ‘friend’ under any other circumstance?”

 

I don’t think there is anyone in your friend’s life right now who is more qualified than you (both professionally and personally) to give her the honest feedback that she needs. But it’s certainly more difficult to be honest and direct with someone when there’s a friendship and/or relationship on the line. You have to carefully weigh the consequences and be wary about burning bridges you may have to cross again. You also need to consider your OWN emotional well-being and not allow yourself to become so drained by someone else’s toxicity that your own happiness and peace-of-mind is in jeopardy as well. Remember your (our ) own co-dependant/rescuer tendencies as well. Those old familiar habits will suck you right back into an emotionally unhealthy relationship/friendship situation before you even realize what the h*ll you’re doing.

 

But however your situation turns out, Otter, I hope you don’t feel as if you’re some kind of heartless person or bad friend just because you have to eventually walk away from a situation or person that brings negativity back into your life. Especially now, when you’ve come so far in gaining back some glimmer of happiness and peace in your own life and relationship. Don’t let anyone spoil the joy that you’ve worked so d*mn hard for. It just ain’t worth it. And at the end of the day, for all our trying, we really can’t “help” anyone who refuses to even acknowledge there might be a problem in the first place.

 

Then again ... I’m just preachin’ to the choir. Ain’t I (???) :laugh:

[whichwayisup]

Definately talk to her about counselling and for her to be on her own medication, not yours. She needs help, badly! She's heading for a trainwreck soon if she doesn't get help.

 

It's good she has you as a friend, but I think she's toxic. You can't rely on her..

If you want to continue the friendship, accept her as things are...She's full of drama, and up/down like a toilet seat...With that being said, I believe you can be a good influence on her..Not meaning that you'll save her, but if she wants help, you can help her through that process.

[blind_otter]

You guys mention the same thing that everyone who loves me has said. My family doesn't like this friend at all and my older sister refuses to see her because of her flakey, erratic behavior (this isn't the first time she's had a severe manic episode, there was another one about 5 years ago that led to us parting ways for the past 5 years).

 

My partner and other friends also dislike her. Sometimes I feel like I'm defending her to everyone. I just know she can be a better person! She just needs some counseling and medication therapy. I know that I used to be like her in many ways and have only calmed down in the last year or so.

 

I don't know.

[serial muse]

Otter, you mentioned a couple of times that you identify a bit with her troubles...I was wondering if maybe you're anxious to defend her (and not wanting to reject her yourself) because you worry that others might do that to you, if things had been different?

 

I know you probably do understand her better in ways that your partner and your sister and others can't...but you aren't her, and you have made different choices. Such as, to do what you needed to do to take care of yourself.

 

I'm not saying to ditch your friend - I only think you should do that if you really feel damaged by her, and if she's become too toxic. But I wonder if maybe it's harder for you to assess just how toxic she really is because deep down, you think that you would have needed someone to stand by you if you were in her situation, and therefore you feel that responsibility toward her.

 

But you aren't her - you can empathize and identify, but you aren't her.

[blind_otter]

Otter, you mentioned a couple of times that you identify a bit with her troubles...I was wondering if maybe you're anxious to defend her (and not wanting to reject her yourself) because you worry that others might do that to you, if things had been different?

 

I know you probably do understand her better in ways that your partner and your sister and others can't...but you aren't her, and you have made different choices. Such as, to do what you needed to do to take care of yourself.

 

I'm not saying to ditch your friend - I only think you should do that if you really feel damaged by her, and if she's become too toxic. But I wonder if maybe it's harder for you to assess just how toxic she really is because deep down, you think that you would have needed someone to stand by you if you were in her situation, and therefore you feel that responsibility toward her.

 

But you aren't her - you can empathize and identify, but you aren't her.

 

I think this is the problem in a nutshell.

 

I talked to her last night and she was in full on manic mode, laughing inappropriately and talking a lot about things that I'm not quite sure made sense.

 

Now she is saying she wants to divorce her husband and move in with the new guy she's seeing, who she's known for 2 weeks. She'll be moving out of town so I'll lose my connection to her. I don't know how I feel about that.

 

I guess in a way I want to be there for her because there were people who were there for me when I was having episodes. Karma and all that. But I understand that she may be toxic right now.

[Ali4134]

This is true and also remember that when people helped you it sounds like you welcomed and appreciated that help and settled down. If she doesn't want it or accept it, then there is nothing you can do.

[blind_otter]

I am torn between telling her what I really think and putting my personal feelings aside in order to be supportive of her.

 

I want to say "You are acting crazy. You're husband is a wonderful person who doesn't deserve this treatment and the way you've behaved towards him is selfish and atrocious. I'm ashamed of your actions and ashamed to call you my friend."

 

What I really say is "I support whatever makes you happy"

 

Am I a bad friend for not speaking my mind?

[Ali4134]

That depends. You need to tell her that she's wrong, but in a better way. Tell her that Her husband doesn't deserve this and she owes it to him and herself to at least be honest. Tell her what to do by making it sound like it is what she should do for herself (it is, but your motives are also for the husband)to less complicate things.

[serial muse]

I am torn between telling her what I really think and putting my personal feelings aside in order to be supportive of her.

 

I want to say "You are acting crazy. You're husband is a wonderful person who doesn't deserve this treatment and the way you've behaved towards him is selfish and atrocious. I'm ashamed of your actions and ashamed to call you my friend."

 

What I really say is "I support whatever makes you happy"

 

Am I a bad friend for not speaking my mind?

 

Well, here's a question - what would you want someone to say to you? And, of course, question B - how deeply do you want to be involved in her troubles? Not to be callous, but it does sound like a bit of a black hole of drama she's got going on...I guess it depends a lot on whether you have any trust in her left. Are there any signs that she might be able to get it together with help?

 

I do understand your dilemma, sort of - one of my best friends was teetering on the edge of having an affair, which she began confiding in me about right after I found out my exH had had an affair. Yowza. She knew the pain I was in, and was wonderfully supportive of me as far as moving on with my life -but it was part of the compartmentalizing that she saw her situation as completely different. Ugh, frustrating.

 

Anyhoo. I was torn between being supportive and understanding of the turmoil she was in (which involved detaching myself from my own feelings) and wanting to knock some sense into her (which, I admit, was a little bit about me and how much of that I thought I could stand). But I also thought that if I remained her confidant, I could also sort of act as a voice for her husband, who didn't know what was going on. Just to remind her that he was getting hurt, even in ignorance, and to keep her from completely compartmentalizing. :-)

 

Anyway, it worked out and we stayed close, but ONLY because I really did have fundamental trust in her, and I believed she'd find her way out of it in time. (She did, actually - she went NC with the OM and is still happily married.)

 

So I guess that might make the difference - do you have any trust left that she's got it in her to pull it together? If so, you could try to voice your thoughts. I guess you know your friend best, and if you think you can get through to her.

 

But honestly, if you really think there's nothing you could say that she would listen to - even if it was gently couched in "I hate to see you doing this to yourself" language, then that doesn't bode well for the friendship...or for anyone helping her but herself.

 

One way to go might be to tell her what you feel about her behavior - to you, to her husband - and say, I'm here for you if you want to do something about this, but I can't stand by and watch you tearing your life apart. But that's definitely drawing a line in the sand...

[EnigmaXOXO]

The “ I support whatever makes you happy” is certainly the safe thing to say. And I’ve said that myself just to avoid getting tangled up in what Serial Muse so eloquently referred to as the “black hole drama.” But I also closed by saying ... “but please, spare me the details. I don’t think my heart could stand watching you do this to yourself anymore.”

 

What makes it more difficult, is when you are also friendly with the person who is being betrayed. You loyalties become divided between protecting one friend’s secret and another’s well-being. You’re no longer the helpful confident ... rather you’re placed in the position of being an accomplice to someone else’s injury.

 

And THAT’S just plain unfair.

 

In those circumstances, you must define your personal boundaries whether it hurts someone’s feelings or not.

[blind_otter]

I don't know that it's worth it at this point. I'm over exhausting myself to help other people. I just don't have the energy for it.

 

I just can't stand it. Not being able to keep it real with someone who I claim to be a friend of mine. Maybe she's not really a friend. Maybe I don't even know how to be a true friend. Maybe I'm making a big deal of something that's really honestly someone else's problem. I've always had a problem with defined boundaries and I've always had a problem trying hard to find the best in people who really aren't worth that effort.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Maybe I'm making a big deal of something that's really honestly someone else's problem. I've always had a problem with defined boundaries and I've always had a problem trying hard to find the best in people who really aren't worth that effort.

 

Welcome to co-dependants anonymous, sister. It’s a shame they don’t give out chips, except the ones that end up on our shoulders.

 

You’re still all soft and vulnerable around the edges, and your open-hearted optimism IS part of what makes you such a beautiful person and wonderful friend. Let’s just hope after ten more years of this people crap, you don’t end up all cranky and cynical like me.

[blind_otter]

Well the sh*t hit the fan this weekend. First off the OM called ME. Apparently he thought my cell number belonged to my friend's husband. I had a very uncomfortable conversation with him. I asked if he had good intentions. He never gave me a straight answer. He was trying to NLP me and trying to "sell" me left and right. I don't respond to either treatment and thus, he was frustrated and defensive throughout the entire conversation. I pretty much let him have it.

 

The following day my friend called to tell me she had consumated her relationship with the OM. She said it was "the best ever". Whatever. I said little to nothing about that and told her straight up that she broke her husband's heart. She said, I know but sometimes when you see something you want you have to grab on to it.

 

Saturday night I went to a lovely wedding out in the country and left my cell phone at home (I think that was on purpose, subconsciously. I didn't want to drag the drama with me).

 

Sunday afternoon I get a call from my friend. She's weepy and says that she understands if I don't want to be her friend. I told her that's not the case, and asked if she wanted to talk. I offered to stop by her house. When I got there she was sitting outside with her husband, crying. She decided to leave the OM after finding out some weird things about him. She tried to go back to her husband, but no dice. He's moving out of state and has a job offer.

 

She cried and asked me for help so I gave her the number to a psychiatric clinic and told her to call ASAP. I sat with her while her husband moved his things out of her apartment. It was a sad moment, but her mania was gone as suddenly as it started.

 

I knew this would happen. She sort of "woke up" all of a sudden and realized what a mess she's made of everything. She's spent money irresponsibly, lost her job, and destroyed her marriage. This is what real bipolar disorder does, folks.

[EnigmaXOXO]

This is what real bipolar disorder does, folks.

 

That’s what my daughter was diagnosed with (first) ... then the last psychiatrist claimed “borderline personality disorder.”

 

Funny, but since she’s gotten clean (going on two years now) the erratic behavior has settled down, and what little irresponsible/reckless behavior that remains is mostly do to Daddy spoiling and over-indulging her. ($$$)

 

But I know my sister has swings like this. But hers are more explosive, violent and physically aggressive in nature and come out of nowhere! And there are no chemicals or self-medication involved. So I know there’s absolute truth in this.

 

Do you know whether or not your friend may be self-medicating with something ... or have you already eliminated that as a possible factor?

[blind_otter]

Do you know whether or not your friend may be self-medicating with something ... or have you already eliminated that as a possible factor?

 

I know she smokes pot occassionally but she claims to have been clean for the past 2 months. She said she didn't like smoking pot because it "brought her down".

 

She's against all other drugs that I know of.

 

Thing is, I've know her since we were 10 and these manic episodes started for her around puberty.

[tanbark813]

Hopefully she'll take the mess as a learning experience.

[blind_otter]

I hope so. SOMETHING good has to come out of all of this.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Well. For whatever it’s worth, I think you handled the situation amazingly. And you did it while feeling out every single moment of it as painful and horrible as it was to watch going down. Good instincts you’ve got there, Otter!

 

I’ll keep my fingers crossed and hope your friend eventually makes that call like you suggested.

 

SOMETHING good has to come out of all of this.

 

How ‘bout some stress-relieving angry sex with the boyfriend. I hear it’s pretty hot. And after all you’ve been through ... you deserve some!