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I have a problem I never thought I'd have. Despite having worked for my present company for nearly nine years, I don't feel there is a single person I could list as a reference.

 

In all of my past employment situations, I have been recognized as an excellent employee, and not only was it always easy to ask for references, there were always people who would offer to give me a reference, whenever and to whomever I needed.

 

I don't really want to go into all the reasons why I don't feel I can ask anyone at my current company for a reference. Suffice it to say that I got tangled in with some people whose work savvy, professional standards and personal integrity are much beneath my own, as well as much beneath those of any of the people with whom I've worked in the past. I say this having sought feedback wherever I could to ensure there was nothing I have either misconstrued or brought upon myself by my own behavior and/or mindset, and feel satisfied that my interpretation above is pretty spot-on. I have wanted to for a while and could not for various reasons but I do plan on leaving this whole area very soon, as I am confident I will find a better professional and social fit elsewhere.

 

How can I work around not having anyone to ask for a reference? Really, I've gone through a whole mental rolodex of people in my present company and I don't feel a single person I've worked with knows either my strengths or my weaknesses or could speak with any incisiveness about what I am like as an employee. This situation is just terra incognita for me.

 

I have spent time putting together a strong, winning story about how this diversion in my professional life, of moving to this very unique small town and working in an industry in which I had zero prior experience a) happened and b) how I used it to continue developing my strengths and now have this whole fresh perspective, etc. etc.

 

How else might I handle this? I do not want to be overlooked or held back in any way by having spent a long time in a company that ultimately just was not the right fit for me, nor I for it. Circumstances led me here, and I dealt with them all in a way that I am confident speaks well of my character, resilience, flexibility, work ethic and talent.

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I have your answer. You simply list HR and the HR phone number and extension or the person in charge of HR. In the U.S., HR will usually advise their company not to give negative recommendations, yet if you put the boss who hates you down for a reference, he will most certainly work around it.

But there is nothing wrong with just telling them that HR is who you've been directed to put for referral purposes. HR may share with them your supervisor's name, but if they do, they will likely also recommend that person not tell them anything except how long you've worked there. If HR does it herself, she will just tell how long you've been there, which is a good long time.

 

If by some chance they get ahold of someone who doesn't like you and get an earful, nonetheless the nine years you spent there is a very long time and speaks for itself. Everyone knows you can get crosswise with a new boss or whatever. Don't say anything negative about the company at any stage. Just act like things were fine. If you were fired, you should tell them that, but emphasize that it was a new manager or whatever who came in and upset the apple cart and that up until then, you were happy there and they were happy with you.

 

For the future, once you feel it going downhill at your employer, always look for a new job while you're still employed, because then the new employer can be told, No, sorry, you can't call them because I'm still employed there. When possible, find someone to write you a referral letter you can keep and copy and attach to your resume when you apply for new jobs.

 

Good luck. Don't worry. Nine years speaks volumes. You were good enough for them for nine years.

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I have your answer. You simply list HR and the HR phone number and extension or the person in charge of HR. In the U.S., HR will usually advise their company not to give negative recommendations, yet if you put the boss who hates you down for a reference, he will most certainly work around it.

But there is nothing wrong with just telling them that HR is who you've been directed to put for referral purposes. HR may share with them your supervisor's name, but if they do, they will likely also recommend that person not tell them anything except how long you've worked there. If HR does it herself, she will just tell how long you've been there, which is a good long time.

 

If by some chance they get ahold of someone who doesn't like you and get an earful, nonetheless the nine years you spent there is a very long time and speaks for itself. Everyone knows you can get crosswise with a new boss or whatever. Don't say anything negative about the company at any stage. Just act like things were fine. If you were fired, you should tell them that, but emphasize that it was a new manager or whatever who came in and upset the apple cart and that up until then, you were happy there and they were happy with you.

 

For the future, once you feel it going downhill at your employer, always look for a new job while you're still employed, because then the new employer can be told, No, sorry, you can't call them because I'm still employed there. When possible, find someone to write you a referral letter you can keep and copy and attach to your resume when you apply for new jobs.

 

Good luck. Don't worry. Nine years speaks volumes. You were good enough for them for nine years.

 

Thank you; this is really helpful.

 

So if I give my current company's generic main HR number, what happens next? I know it's the HR admin assistant (one of three possible ones) who answers that line, so they'll answer my prospective employer's call, and then what is the likely scenario? They'll go into my file and see the number of years I've worked, most likely also in there is my paperwork from a workers' comp injury, and then my very articulate and professional resignation letter from one position (I then moved into a different position in the company). Do they just sift through that info right there on the spot? Or is it more likely they'll forward the caller to my current supervisor?

 

Now the other thing you're suggesting is this could all be moot. My current employer does employ me currently. So does that mean I'm not obliged to provide a reference at all from within that company? I don't want to, because I don't want to give my resignation until I know I have a new job in hand.

 

The other thing you mention--asking someone for a reference that I then attach to my resume--I didn't know you could do. I thought prospective employers would disregard a written referral letter that the applicant had read. Is that not the case? I'll use this for future reference, since there isn't anyone I could ask for a referral letter (and what's worse, I don't even think anyone I worked with even is responsible enough to deliver such a letter if I asked. One of my bosses was asked to write a reference for someone...and I wrote it! I didn't even know the guy! :laugh:)

 

If I do just give the generic HR number, should I do that with previous employers so that it doesn't look amiss that I just gave the HR number for my current company?

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Use your old references. Tell prospective employers that you are not comfortable telegraphing to your present employer that you are looking for a new job. You can also fudge a bit & tell prospective employers that you believe your present employer's policy is to only confirm dates of employment & rates of pay but you would prefer that the prospective employer not verify that until they have extended you an offer. Most new employers will understand. You also don't want to work for one who doesn't

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Use your old references. Tell prospective employers that you are not comfortable telegraphing to your present employer that you are looking for a new job. You can also fudge a bit & tell prospective employers that you believe your present employer's policy is to only confirm dates of employment & rates of pay but you would prefer that the prospective employer not verify that until they have extended you an offer. Most new employers will understand. You also don't want to work for one who doesn't

 

So it's okay that my "old" references are at least 9 or more years old at this point? What is the purpose for a prospective employer to contact references you provide? Is it merely to verify employment, or really to get a specific, subjective picture of what you were like as an employee? And do they contact references roughly commensurate with when they interview you? Or when they're ready to extend an offer?

 

Thanks.

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Well, if you're still with this 9-year job, then you simply tell the new companies you're applying for that you are still there and they don't know you're looking so you can't provide them a reference. I've done it before and no one batted an eye. I mean, they can't expect you to get fired over then telling your company you're job hunting.

 

HR will not tell them jack but how long you've been there unless the HR person is unschooled in HR procedures. If it's just some person they stuck in the position who never went to college for an HR position, then she will likely just give your boss's name. But since you're still there, just don't give them that.

 

Listen, they can look up your tax records or whatever and tell you've worked somewhere 9 years and how much you make, and everywhere I've applied in the last 20 years required me to sign over that type of info to them so they can investigate. Maybe you could make a copy of your w-2s instead to prove how long you've been there or really, just offer that if they seem to want something. I don't think they will.

 

You will be asked on the application whether you have made workers'-comp claims or personal injury claims, and yes this can deter an employer. If it's a smaller contained claim and seems totally necessary and a freak accident or something, they should overlook it, but if it turned into a nasty lawsuit, a company is going to consider that and wonder if you're someone who just finds ways to sue people, because there are people like that out there.

 

The thing you have going for you is you've been there nine years. So whatever happened, it wasn't like you just took the job and then tried to find a way to get money out of them asap. So I think that longevity is going to save you. I mean, you will have to admit to the claim because they will find out anyway. So it's best you just spin it to them up front. Very happy with the company for eight years, got this injury, feel like I need to find something more suitable, whatever.

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Oh, no, that worker's comp claim was nothing like that. This is an outdoor job where this particular kind of injury happens all the time, and there's no issue with getting worker's comp for it; the rule is, if you are out with a guest, then you are covered, and they put you to work in some capacity in an office somewhere in the company while you rehab.

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So just take a positive stance about the company but say you're looking for more money or a change of position or whatever. Maybe that you feel you've kind of gone as far up the ladder as you can there.

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I think the other advice here is spot-on. It's pretty common to not want to let your current employer know you are job searching, therefore being unable to get a reference from current employer isn't really a problem. Generally the only reason for needing letters of reference in the first place is just to add one more layer to your application. When you're being evaluated, they are considering every aspect of your application.

 

I just interviewed a young woman with a fantastic resume, cover letter, and very strong letters of recommendation. That package got her the interview, but the way she handled scheduling the interview process (completely unprofessional and entitled) knocked her down while we were evaluating her; and then she bombed the interview entirely. The same day I interviewed another young woman who didn't have any letters of recommendation but a good resume and she did much better in the interview and were I to choose between the two, I'd pick the second candidate.

 

Another idea for your situation is if you keep in contact with someone who worked at your company but has since moved on? I think it's fine to ask that person for a letter of recommendation. Over the course of 9 years it's understandable that lots of your superiors/coworkers have moved on elsewhere, and maybe you'd feel better having one of them represent your skills and qualifications.

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So just take a positive stance about the company but say you're looking for more money or a change of position or whatever. Maybe that you feel you've kind of gone as far up the ladder as you can there.

 

Thanks and good idea. In my "statement" I've written to help me prepare for interviews and such, I say something like I realized that in order for me to continue to grow personally and professionally, I needed to leave not only the company but the rural community where I live, but that while I've been where I am, I've gained _____ skills and learned _____ and that's why now I want to ____.

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I think the other advice here is spot-on. It's pretty common to not want to let your current employer know you are job searching, therefore being unable to get a reference from current employer isn't really a problem. Generally the only reason for needing letters of reference in the first place is just to add one more layer to your application. When you're being evaluated, they are considering every aspect of your application.

 

I just interviewed a young woman with a fantastic resume, cover letter, and very strong letters of recommendation. That package got her the interview, but the way she handled scheduling the interview process (completely unprofessional and entitled) knocked her down while we were evaluating her; and then she bombed the interview entirely. The same day I interviewed another young woman who didn't have any letters of recommendation but a good resume and she did much better in the interview and were I to choose between the two, I'd pick the second candidate.

 

Thank you; this is encouraging information to have. I won't have the references but I do interview well and have excellent manners, so I'm glad to know that might count for something, with the right employer.

 

Another idea for your situation is if you keep in contact with someone who worked at your company but has since moved on? I think it's fine to ask that person for a letter of recommendation. Over the course of 9 years it's understandable that lots of your superiors/coworkers have moved on elsewhere, and maybe you'd feel better having one of them represent your skills and qualifications.

 

The problem is, people in my company really don't "move on." That's one aspect of "cultural fit" for me that just does not jibe. It's really true that there's no one I can ask. It's not that anyone hates me or anything; in fact I think I'm well-liked...but it's more for things they've projected onto me and not all anything about my background, prior experience, anything. In fact, in the entire time I've worked at this company, no one has asked me a thing about my background. I really want to make a clean and permanent break and I'm glad it won't necessarily reflect poorly on me in the eyes of prospective employers that I don't have anyone from my current company advocating for me.

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Thanks and good idea. In my "statement" I've written to help me prepare for interviews and such, I say something like I realized that in order for me to continue to grow personally and professionally, I needed to leave not only the company but the rural community where I live, but that while I've been where I am, I've gained _____ skills and learned _____ and that's why now I want to ____.

 

That sounds good.

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When possible, find someone to write you a referral letter you can keep and copy and attach to your resume when you apply for new jobs.

 

GreenCove, there's not a (much) higher up at your present company that could do this for you now? If you skip several levels of management and supervision, seems there would be someone aware of your accomplishments but above the fray. Were I interviewing you, the lack of a reference at a job with a decade-long tenure would be a concern.

 

Just wondering if you've considered all possible solutions...

 

Mr. Lucky

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I work for a very old, well known private bank. They have a rigorous background check but it centers more on verifying dates of schooling, employment dates, criminal record & credit scores, I don't believe they spend much time checking references. I think their belief is in this day & age almost anything can be faked. Plus, who would be dumb enough to list a reference that wouldn't give a glowing report?

 

I always tell a prospective employer I would appreciate the opportunity to tell my current employer that I'm leaving instead of them finding out by someone calling to check employment. Prospective employers think this sounds considerate of me & it allows me to know if they're truly serious about me.

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Do check in with your references & tell them you have named them so they are not surprised if someone calls.

 

The purpose of references is two fold. 1). to assess you by seeing what kind of people you name. If you name your BFF who has no knowledge of your work ethic a prospective employer will question your business acumen. 2). to get a flavor for your character through the eyes of someone who knows you. In this day & age most people won't disclose harmful stuff because they are afraid of getting in trouble.

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GreenCove, there's not a (much) higher up at your present company that could do this for you now? If you skip several levels of management and supervision, seems there would be someone aware of your accomplishments but above the fray. Were I interviewing you, the lack of a reference at a job with a decade-long tenure would be a concern.

 

Just wondering if you've considered all possible solutions...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

If you otherwise really liked the candidate, would you surmise that perhaps she had a bad experience at the company and that is why she lacks a reference from that company?

 

After all, people leave companies, just like they leave relationships, for a reason, or reasons.

 

I do know people in upper-upper management, but my direct boss in my former role that I left (I'm now still with the company in another role) is one of them, and so if I asked the others, they'd all wonder why I wasn't asking my former boss. I know I raised questions when I left my previous role, but knowing I could not leave the company right away I never let on that anything was amiss other than that I wanted to grow and take on increased responsibility, and that was not possible in that role.

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Do check in with your references & tell them you have named them so they are not surprised if someone calls.

 

The purpose of references is two fold. 1). to assess you by seeing what kind of people you name. If you name your BFF who has no knowledge of your work ethic a prospective employer will question your business acumen. 2). to get a flavor for your character through the eyes of someone who knows you. In this day & age most people won't disclose harmful stuff because they are afraid of getting in trouble.

 

Thanks for this.

 

Interestingly, I don't think a single one of my references from prior employers ever has been called. I keep in touch with several of them and our relationship is such that they'd say something if they ever were contacted by a prospective employer....

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Eternal Sunshine

I am in Australia so things might be different. But...I recently got a job with a large global company. I was still employed by my previous employer (for around 5 years). My new employer insisted on a reference from a person that was my direct supervisor (at the time) current work place. I told them how uncomfortable that made me and that I didn't want to jeopardize my current employment. I even offered multiple references from colleagues, previous supervisors etc. They wouldn't budge but assured me that they will hire me if the reference is not terribly negative.

 

I then took a risk and allowed them to call my then current supervisor. I did talk to him first and tried to minimize things - i.e. I told him that I am considering another offer but that I am still happy where I worked. I always had a positive relationship with him though - I just knew that he would be pissed off that I was leaving and he tends to have a temper so I had no idea what he was going to say.

 

It all worked out though and I am now happy at the new job. My old boss even made a counter offer so there were no negative effects.

 

Moral of the story: yes, you can refuse to give anyone at current job as a reference but if the new position is very competitive, they can chose not to hire you based on that (even if they can't give that explicitly as the reason).

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If you otherwise really liked the candidate, would you surmise that perhaps she had a bad experience at the company and that is why she lacks a reference from that company?

 

After all, people leave companies, just like they leave relationships, for a reason, or reasons.

 

I'd wait until the second interview, and then try and ask enough questions to at least understand the context. Hiring is a process and references are just one of the tools. A 9-year period with no references would be ... puzzling. And as an interviewer, I don't like puzzles...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Eternal Sunshine
I'd wait until the second interview, and then try and ask enough questions to at least understand the context. Hiring is a process and references are just one of the tools. A 9-year period with no references would be ... puzzling. And as an interviewer, I don't like puzzles...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

I'm currently looking to fill 2 positions and 9 years without references would be a big red flag. Even if the reasons are totally innocent it's too big of a risk.

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Exactly.

 

 

 

I'm currently looking to fill 2 positions and 9 years without references would be a big red flag. Even if the reasons are totally innocent it's too big of a risk.

 

They I suppose you and Mr. Lucky would just not be the successful interviews for me, huh? I think that's the attitude I just have to take. Maybe for you two it would be a red flag; maybe someone else would be excited enough by what was sitting right in front of them and what was on my resume that they'd not mind so much not having a reference from my current company.

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They I suppose you and Mr. Lucky would just not be the successful interviews for me, huh?

 

Didn't say that :) . Every applicant has strengths and weaknesses, when you're applying it's about addressing as many deficits as you can...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Didn't say that :) . Every applicant has strengths and weaknesses, when you're applying it's about addressing as many deficits as you can...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Ok, thanks :-)

 

I could say a host of very negative, yet very true, and with hard facts to back everything up, things about my experience at my current company, but I don't want to do that. I have worked very hard to let it go so that I could be clear about my next steps. I could find someone to provide a reference, and I don't think anyone would say bad things about me, it's just that they wouldn't really be saying anything about ME. They were very provincial and limited and never got to know me, my strengths or weaknesses. I'm sure they think they know about me, but my experience time and again was that they did not. I just want to leave the whole thing behind me. I hope my experience, credentials, and personality are collectively enough to win over a new employer--those all would be things my current employer never seemed to notice or acknowledge.

 

I really appreciate your perspective. I think I'll just have to go with my gut: if I don't feel comfortable giving a reference from my current company, I won't, and if I'm judged for that, so be it. It seems you can never go wrong when you follow your instincts, right?

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Eternal Sunshine
Ok, thanks :-)

 

I could say a host of very negative, yet very true, and with hard facts to back everything up, things about my experience at my current company, but I don't want to do that. I have worked very hard to let it go so that I could be clear about my next steps. I could find someone to provide a reference, and I don't think anyone would say bad things about me, it's just that they wouldn't really be saying anything about ME. They were very provincial and limited and never got to know me, my strengths or weaknesses. I'm sure they think they know about me, but my experience time and again was that they did not. I just want to leave the whole thing behind me. I hope my experience, credentials, and personality are collectively enough to win over a new employer--those all would be things my current employer never seemed to notice or acknowledge.

 

I really appreciate your perspective. I think I'll just have to go with my gut: if I don't feel comfortable giving a reference from my current company, I won't, and if I'm judged for that, so be it. It seems you can never go wrong when you follow your instincts, right?

 

 

Definetly go with your gut. Under no circumstances say anything negative about your current employer, that is looked upon unfavourably across the board. There are employers that barely look at references and there are those that are very anal. Also depends on your other strengths and on other applicants.

 

 

Good luck :)

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Definetly go with your gut. Under no circumstances say anything negative about your current employer, that is looked upon unfavourably across the board. There are employers that barely look at references and there are those that are very anal. Also depends on your other strengths and on other applicants.

 

 

Good luck :)

 

Thank you :)

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