Responsibility

[GemmaUK]

Understandably (I think) this is going to sound like an odd question.

(it's not related at all to my last thread btw - different people, totally different situation)

 

Office environment based question:

Does anyone have any suggestions, tips, history of encouraging a mindset in an employee into being one that takes responsibility rather than one who says nothing, expects to be informed, sees an issue but doesn't make it a highlight and instead of blame shifting will react to something seen and make actions to rectify or find out the explanation for it?

 

I will expand if required - I have a few examples - but I thought I would throw the question out there as a start point as there are many folk on here who will likely have experienced the same issue or could offer some thoughts without me typing my fingers off!

[GorillaTheater]

As a general rule, that kind of input comes most effectively from the person's supervisor. It is, after all, why they're making the hypothetical big bucks.

 

 

But I have also seen many supervisors who don't do their jobs, either.

[GemmaUK]

As a general rule, that kind of input comes most effectively from the person's supervisor. It is, after all, why they're making the hypothetical big bucks.

 

 

But I have also seen many supervisors who don't do their jobs, either.

 

Thanks GT but the situation here is led by the team Manager.

[Mr. Lucky]

Office environment based question:

Does anyone have any suggestions, tips, history of encouraging a mindset in an employee into being one that takes responsibility rather than one who says nothing, expects to be informed, sees an issue but doesn't make it a highlight and instead of blame shifting will react to something seen and make actions to rectify or find out the explanation for it?

 

Since you said "employee", I'll assume this person's not already in a supervisory position.

 

One approach I've used is to put this person in charge of some small, non-critical project, task or system. This gives me opportunities to strategize with them, recognize their accomplishments (often missing in the person you describe) and set the expectation they'll be more proactive.

 

Works well with most people...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GemmaUK]

OK, clearly I wasn't clear.

 

The employee here is the Manager and her two assistants.

The Manager is the main culprit for not taking responsibility and blame shifting, her assistants follow her in doing this.

[Lotsgoingon]

You need to clarify further.

 

Are you in a position above the manager ... or below the manager?

 

The strategies are completely different.

[GemmaUK]

You need to clarify further.

 

Are you in a position above the manager ... or below the manager?

 

The strategies are completely different.

 

We're equal levels and both report to the Finance Director.

She doesn't just behave this way with me though - it's general and to all including our boss.

[GorillaTheater]

We're equal levels and both report to the Finance Director.

She doesn't just behave this way with me though - it's general and to all including our boss.

 

 

I think I've got it straight now, but my advice still seems to stand. I'd say it's the Finance Director's job to sort this person out. If the FD is unwilling for whatever reason to address it, I'm not sure that much can be done.

[GemmaUK]

I think I've got it straight now, but my advice still seems to stand. I'd say it's the Finance Director's job to sort this person out. If the FD is unwilling for whatever reason to address it, I'm not sure that much can be done.

 

The FD is new - very new - 4 weeks solo as of Monday.

He can see what is happening - that there are some of us dedicated, taking responsibility and he is annoyed that this section of the team don't.

My question is about finding tips and ways to help without it being all on him. We are and should be a team.

We have section of our team 'unresponsible '- their own choosing for the disarray a crucial function is in - the accounts payable function - pretty vital to knowing your overall cost liability.

 

it has never been good but became progressively worse since we introduced a paperless system and we now have more paper than ever - for reasons given by the manager which are untrue and she has done nothing to rectify anything or even come up with a plan.

She said that the MD wanted to see paper to sign and that 50% of invoices were of a value he needed to see so instead of working the other 50% of invoices in a paperless way she chose to do ALL with paper..still.

 

But the MD does NOT want to see paper and has told her over and again this.

I found this out on a walk past question to him a few weeks ago.

 

I'm currently coding up some invoices for the Manager as she told me verbally she was 'just sitting on them - so was doing nothing with them, nor adding them to our finance system - she told me she couldn't be bothered'.

Our MD approves these for me via email (Circa 80 per month - circa 10 of which need to be approved by him) and they are all paperless because I deal with them - and it's not my job to - I'm the Finance Analyst, calculate Commissions and currently it's Financial Plan 18-19 time for me also - plus I am 'overseeing' the project these invoices relate to.

Even when I code them it's a struggle to get them posted to the system.

 

But this is only one example..

[preraph]

It is up to her manager to fix that, new or not. Some new managers try not to rock the boat right away, but just as many clean house. He can instruct her what he wants, give her a chance to wake up and do her job, and then decide what to do if she doesn't improve, like put a person above her or just demote her or fire her.

 

IMO, this type thing comes down to a personality type. This one, it seems like you have to drag work out of her and just general bad worker/bad manager. Don't know how she ever got promoted. But it's not your problem, so other than cooperating with her super and forming a good bond there or answering any questions about her, probably just as well to let that manager reach his own conclusions and take action.

[GemmaUK]

Trouble is that things have reached new low levels.

 

Imagine ladders - a row of four of them. Each ladder represents a month (as we are in accounts).

They all start with the full amount of rungs, she whips out rungs from all the other ladders to the point where some of us are still able to reach the next rung and some of us are left with a 'teaser' which we can reach and then, once at that rung you look up and see so many rungs missing that all you can do is climb back down and hope next time will be better and she'll give you back a few rungs that she whipped away last time so at least you can look at the queries you had last month and do or finish the work you need to do on those.

We're not even getting last month's rungs back and she's whipping this months rung away again.

 

She has been in the role for >20 years, is there from 7.30am when the building opens to 7.30pm when the building closes.

She does appear to work hard but has been doing those hours for years and talks a lot of her day about TV & celebrities.

She provides information which none of us need - great example last week with a huge email sent to all of us which contained nothing we didn't already know and then closes up if we ask a question, will dangle the carrot on occasion saying something will be investigated and then can't remember having been asked or agreeing. She ignores email requests so we all need to print things for her and she loses those unless you keep on at her during the following 24 hours.. In most cases though this is an impossibility simply because there is other work to be done.

 

The new FD has a track record of solving issues and has hit the ground running but due to all the issues surrounding this one manager he only found out the cost liability we have as a business on Friday (if indeed it is the true cost liability).

He though, needs some help - which is why I'm after any tips to just at least carry us until other projects and the finance plan are done

 

We had our first team meeting this week - it was a farce and didn't achieve anything. That Manager barely spoke a word saying she was 'unaccustomed to public speaking'. There were only 7 of us in the meeting - most of whom she has known well for 10/11 years.

Her assistant and apprentice both broke down in tears, one having a 35 minute panic attack.

I have never seen anything like it and the manager and her assistant are not young newbies, they're 58 and 46 respectively.

A few of us (FD included) were already aware tears would likely happen as the Manager and her assistant had already discussed the 'use of tears' in meetings a few weeks ago - 'use of' meaning it's a manipulation tactic to distract and get a meeting off the rails.

 

We moved buildings not long ago and it was a week before the Manager (under pressure at this point from HR and much protest from the manager and her assistant) took down their out of office email going to our suppliers and internal teams saying we couldn't do anything as we were moving buildings. Everything was up and running perfectly from day one. None of us within the team had needed to email them as a team so had no idea they had put the out of office up there.

It was so embarrassing to think that the message to our suppliers was that we couldn't efficiently maintain business through an office move when in fact we had.

We now make sure to regularly check any OOO's they put up, two more since have been thwarted.

Phone calls are not so easy to manage until the damage has been done, Currently the Manager is telling suppliers that the FD is new and doesn't know what he is doing and is trying to find his feet.

 

We are sinking faster and harder just now so any tips to at least just carry us somewhat until the bigger plan can be put into place would help - even down to wording a vocal witnessed request as she ignores emails - in her own words she 'sits on them'.

 

It's a lost cause isn't it! Oh well, writing things down helps get it off my chest to some extent.

Not looking forward to tomorrow, I've already lost a few rungs of that ladder!

[GemmaUK]

Found out today that they're not even allocating payments to invoices paid on the system.

[preraph]

I think what you should do is offer any help to the new manager who's over all of you. Just say, I know we're facing some challenging issues, especially in ___'s department. Please let me know if there's any way I can help. She needs to fire this person and her crying assistants, but she needs to interview replacements first or move people around within the company. Offering her help lets her know you know something needs to be done. You have info she may not have, so that opens up an avenue for her to pick your brain if she wants to.

 

I don't see why anyone wouldn't have already fired this person when she won't do her job, won't speak at meetings and her people under her are in tears or pretending to be. I mean, that is extreme....20 years or not.

[GemmaUK]

I think what you should do is offer any help to the new manager who's over all of you. Just say, I know we're facing some challenging issues, especially in ___'s department. Please let me know if there's any way I can help. She needs to fire this person and her crying assistants, but she needs to interview replacements first or move people around within the company. Offering her help lets her know you know something needs to be done. You have info she may not have, so that opens up an avenue for her to pick your brain if she wants to.

 

I don't see why anyone wouldn't have already fired this person when she won't do her job, won't speak at meetings and her people under her are in tears or pretending to be. I mean, that is extreme....20 years or not.

 

I already am helping and have offered. Plus they are getting help from another resource from another part of the business.

 

The new FD (who is the manager of all of us - and is a he btw) wants the accounts payable manager to take responsibility though.

Right now I'm even helping with letting them know which invoices they have paid and which have been approved as they're not allocating payments to invoices.

But, they won't even answer their own phones!

Getting an email reply is negligible at best - even within the business. I cannot quite believe this but have seen emails from internal folk but also from external companies who have figured out our accounts receivable email address just going by our accounts payable email format and have contacted our AR manager to chase payments because they get no communication from accounts payable at all! Ludicrous!!!

The AR manager is furious that they don't pick up their phones because....they are chatting/gossiping ..or eating cake.. No word of a lie. The AP team will actually say 'I'm eating cake so can't answer my phone' - but they don't say it jokingly then answer the phone - they mean it and don't answer the phone!!!!

 

I did find out something today though. We have a new financial accountant in the team (another male) who is going to be covering maternity leave for the old FA.

There was a meeting called this morning (AP Manager, FD, new FA and old FA) & I asked him how it went when everyone was out at lunch.

He said that the moment the door closed the APM was on the defensive. When asked why xyz is done a certain way the reply was 'we've always done it that way'.

The new FA told me that as of next week he will be sitting with herto sort out exactly what the process is right now as the APM is the only one who knows and she isn't sharing the info with anyone.

 

On the back of that I asked for the new FA to please make sure he sit with me sometime next week also to find out my part of the AP process as I look after the more cost risky elements of cost accruals related to outsourced factors

He said he was free this afternoon - so we went through it. The new FD (who doesn't understand the process yet) was sat right behind us.

 

The new FA looked dumbfounded and said 'that's a lot of intricate work! How the hell do you manage to do all that?'

(Unfortunately, aside from my own team we also have issues in other teams which has led to checking their costs being a normal part of monthly life.)

My reply was that when we don't close and don't stop posting invoices on the agreed day - day one of week one that this is all I do, nothing else, there is too much volume. What the APM has done is to squirrel invoices away, not post them, leave them in piles which only she knows

I have other crucial reporting to do at month end which is 11 times out of 12 (11 out of 12 because the APM only stops posting on the agreed day about once month per year!) something I have to catch up on, work excessive hours and weekends to get done - because once that is done I also calculate commissions for the sales department. There's a strict cut off date for that which I can't ever miss or people won't get paid their commission.

The result is my FD - old and new has very few or none of the financial reports which I am supposed to produce.

If the APM stopped posting invoices on the agreed day I can 100% do it all within normal work hours and within all deadlines.

 

As it is, the majority invoice posting is left until the last Friday and following Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday of the new month.

Anyone understanding finance will know that it rolls to the first week but not in any company have I known it to just roll on for no apparent reason.

It takes us more than a week to complete our month end when it should take around 3-4 days max.

 

I got home last night and literally cried - all evening.

This morning me and the new FD fell out as I suggested working on the accruals a quick/dirty way - he doesn't understand the process yet though - but at least now his new FA does.

 

I am totally fed up with working so many hours and weekends (worked almost every one since March) without any in lieu days or overtime pay.

Doing what I am quick and dirty - the new FD will see the impact and feel it - even just from last month - his first solo month.

 

It's one of the only ways to get the message over how much AP affects everything else.

 

I highly doubt she will get fired - if she had been my employee in one of my AP teams that I have managed - she would be elsewhere now.

 

This has been a vent - and an open up about what really goes on.

Again, this is tip of the iceberg..and I could post a lot more!

 

But hey! No tears for me tonight!

 

 

 

 

 

.

[preraph]

One thing I learned is that sometimes you have to stop trying to keep the bridge from falling because no one will fix the bridge as long as it is still standing. Now, I agree since there's the new person in charge, that wouldn't be fair, but after a fair amount of time to give her to fix these problems, you should stop doing all the extra work. And you should let her know at some juncture that you are doing too much and that you will be glad when she has things revamped and under control so you can have a life again.

[clia]

I

My reply was that when we don't close and don't stop posting invoices on the agreed day - day one of week one that this is all I do, nothing else, there is too much volume. What the APM has done is to squirrel invoices away, not post them, leave them in piles which only she knows

I have other crucial reporting to do at month end which is 11 times out of 12 (11 out of 12 because the APM only stops posting on the agreed day about once month per year!) something I have to catch up on, work excessive hours and weekends to get done - because once that is done I also calculate commissions for the sales department. There's a strict cut off date for that which I can't ever miss or people won't get paid their commission.

The result is my FD - old and new has very few or none of the financial reports which I am supposed to produce.

If the APM stopped posting invoices on the agreed day I can 100% do it all within normal work hours and within all deadlines.

 

I don't know if I'm completely following this as is not in my wheelhouse, but is it possible for you to, each month, in advance, send an e-mail to APM, copy your FD and FA (and whoever else), and explicitly state that the invoices must be posted by agreed date (whatever that is) or you will not be able to complete X (whatever that is) by the deadline?

 

There's a saying along the lines of "your lack of planning doesn't constitute an emergency on my part." The fact that the APM is consistently not doing her job, forcing you to work overtime and weekends to meet deadlines is totally unacceptable. I would start papering the hell out of this if I were you (if you aren't already). What happens when you get this stuff late and are unable to work all weekend?

[GemmaUK]

I don't know if I'm completely following this as is not in my wheelhouse, but is it possible for you to, each month, in advance, send an e-mail to APM, copy your FD and FA (and whoever else), and explicitly state that the invoices must be posted by agreed date (whatever that is) or you will not be able to complete X (whatever that is) by the deadline?

 

There's a saying along the lines of "your lack of planning doesn't constitute an emergency on my part." The fact that the APM is consistently not doing her job, forcing you to work overtime and weekends to meet deadlines is totally unacceptable. I would start papering the hell out of this if I were you (if you aren't already). What happens when you get this stuff late and are unable to work all weekend?

 

I would be totally with you on the paper/mail front except that for over 10 years the APM does not respond to mails and basically decides her own end point for AP close.

 

I realised just today how AP close works - in that we have an (acceptable instruction) to post all invoices received. She posts but then doesn't make anyone aware that it will go beyond agreed close.

Myself and the FD found out much later than was known we would close AP at the end of day 2 instead of at the end of day 1.

 

Apparently a discussion was had between the soon to be a Mum FA and the APM that we would close 24 hrs late and they CHOSE not to tell me or the FD.

 

New news today - we have the 'little helper' from our sub company coming in four half days a week as of tomorrow to sit quiet, listen, get stuff done, fully visible to our new FD and FA who are both sceptical - understandably so as they do not know her.

 

But - she originally taught the APM her role - back >20 years ago.

She is older than our APM but - big difference - she has moved with the times, knows the system so damn well and myself and the AR Manager have praised her on her work ethic and methods several times in just a few weeks.

 

Our new FD basically 'interviewed' her today, was surprised and we have her help - within our team - properly.

 

She is slick, quick but also knows the AP team emotionally too.

Plus she is devious (in a good way) and knows how to work people to get done what is needed - gently, quietly...calmly.

 

I am more than excited.

She needs to prove herself to our new FD - she will! I have no doubt. She has so much knowledge

 

This help is one I have on the sidelines been recommending to use as fully as possible to our FD - as has our AR Manager.

 

If anyone can do this - she can.

She was the help I was hoping for on the project I am overseeing too (see my I need suggestions thread - things are getting worse with that ) - and if she is sitting in our team there is a chance she might help me also. Though her help in AP will help full stop!

[GemmaUK]

Day 2 of our 'new girl'.

 

NG - as I'll call her was very well behaved yesterday. Just got on with her tasks quietly and quickly.

 

It's only day 2 and as I expected it would become - maybe not this quick but there was a very comical bickering session between NG and the APM.

 

NG was given a pile of invoices (printed paperwork - bearing in mind we have 'supposedly been paperless since last Oct/Nov.

APM gave her a printed report around 10/15 pages long and asked her to go through the pile of invoices and highlight with a highlighter pen all the invoices in the pile.

The highlighting was to signify that these invoices are awaiting approval.

NG asked where the excel file was for the printed report she had been given.

APM showed her where it was.

NG then went through and highlighted the excel report for APM. and told her that she would highlight in excel as it was far faster.

 

NG is actually very aware that we can run an extract from our finance system and would be abe to do a look up in excel to give us the same info but she is treading slowly just now and doing as she is told.

 

It took about 10 minutes and NG passed the invoices back to APM.

APM then asked for the printed report back.

NG said 'what do you want it back for? It's now out of date!'

APM: It will remind me that it's been looked at

NG: But it's now in the file on excel, you can print that if you need to for any reason and this*flaps report around in the air whilst talking* is totally out of date.

APM: But I need the report.

NG: You have it, it's saved in excel so we can bin this copy.

APM: No, I need it

NG: What for?

APM: To remind me.

NG: It's now out of date, I will print you off the new one.

Almost everyone else was giggling! Myself included! I had to walk away!

 

Then later:

Statements.

NG spent a whole day last week checking supplier statements (NG has been helping a bit here and there already but from her own desk so not sitting with us) - all done. She was however intrigued that APM has a huge file of statements - in fact not one file but four large lever arch files of them. FOUR!

APM usually spends a full week going through statements - thta is all she does for a week once month end is over.

When I have worked in accounts payable I see a statement come in - I check it and bin it - always have.

 

So, NG asked why we have so many statements actually KEPT.

APM: For the auditors, they need to see statements

NG: Auditors do ask for statements yes, of course, but why on earthe do you file them all?

APM: Well I replace them when we get a new one in.

NG: But why do you not just quickly check them and then bin them?

APM: For the auditors, the Auditors need to see them.

As with all companies the auditors come twice per year - once to make us aware of what they need to see, the second time for the actual audit.

APM knows this as does NG (and me for that matter).

When I have been in AP you simply call a supplier to request a statement - an up to date one - there will be maybe 10-30 companies for whom the auditor wants to see a statement - that's all. It's no big deal and companies are used to being asked for a statement for this purpose.

NG did train APM in her role 20 odd years ago but she didn't ever suggest that statements should be kept or filed. I think APM has 'made' this a much needed week long task when she hasn't been that busy. Ridiculous!

NG is going to tackle it and shred what is in the files next week.

 

 

Then , later....

We appear to have squirreled away several - 6 currently photocopy paper boxes jammed full of invoices (the result of going paperless!!) which the APM is unsure if all are scanned and attached to our finance system.

Late thsi afternoon (day 2 of NG help) and we knew this would happen...

 

APM: I'm not sure I have anything to give you, we're all up to date now so thank you for your help.

NG: What are all those boxes of invoices in that cupboard?

APM: Invoices which have been dealt with which we need to check to make sure they did get scanned and attached. It's boring, and takes ages so I wouldn't want to give you that. It would take weeks to check it all.

NG: No, that is what I am here for - to help you. *NG grabs a box of invoices*. She spends an hour checking, attaching what is missing, shredding paperwork and has already done 3 boxes.

 

Today and the bickering was hilarious!

They do say that if you are older that you cannot adapt to systems.

But NG is 62 and 4 years older than APM - and is cracking it no problem!

[GemmaUK]

Our FD was out today.

 

The APM declared this morning that we have no use for NG any longer as they have nothing to give her after 4 half days of help.

Ng came in, grabbed a foot high pile of paperwork - that which the APM was unsure was attached to our accounts system or not and shredded all that was attached. There's another box over a foot high to go of that.

 

It's ironic, the AP team have meetings stating they need more help, when they get it they have nothing to give them.